I disagree. Not that this age group doesn't buy DVDs, I think the folks a little older buy more. They have the money.
HD-DVD sales back up to 35% in the 3rd week of January
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I agree the PS3 won't ensure the long term success/survival of HDM/BD, but it's effect in helping BD win the format war cannot be underestimated, and thus, any sales figures of players that don't account for it are of limited use for indicating a trend.
First, if you go to Bill's site you will see the pie chart. Second, I would like to remind everyone reading this that in January of 2007 HD-DVD held a 76% lead on BD in standalone sales. And all year Toshiba kept trumpeting their lead as the reason they believed they were leading over BD. Bottom line is that even with the lowest prices they have ever had BD is now waxing their bottom and they know it.
I think the red boys are just frustrated with the BD standalone giveaway with a purchase of a HDTV because they know that Toshiba can not do this or else they will lose their shirt.
Yesterday Toshiba announced that their sales thru the XMAS season netted them 0 dollars. They basically broke even!! This even included added the very profitable PC division. I bet come the stockholders meeting some heads will role. Look what happened over at Sony because the PS3 came out of the gate slow -- every head rolled! The Japanese consider breaking even losing money and so do most businesses.
I think the red boys are just frustrated with the BD standalone giveaway with a purchase of a HDTV because they know that Toshiba can not do this or else they will lose their shirt.
Yesterday Toshiba announced that their sales thru the XMAS season netted them 0 dollars. They basically broke even!! This even included added the very profitable PC division. I bet come the stockholders meeting some heads will role. Look what happened over at Sony because the PS3 came out of the gate slow -- every head rolled! The Japanese consider breaking even losing money and so do most businesses.
They also purchased the Cell manufacturing plant from Sony, Which was bleeding already. There are more factors for Toshiba losing money.
Same with Sony though, The Exploding batteries hurt them the worst, but they kept ticking.
MS lost 3 billion due to the RRoD, but they are still solvent.
None of these companies will disappear any time soon :up
True, but how long will the stockholders allow Toshiba to push a dead horse before they start asking for heads?
I agree. Let's take out the free instant movies (2, on top of the 7 you normally get) BB, Amazon and others were giving away with HD-DVD players last week out of the equation and see how things stack up.
Frustrated? Frustrated???
Ain't you tired of your own duplicity, Joe? You shouldn't read Blu Shill Bill before you go to bed, it can have a negative impact on your health...
Because only that Blu "prophet" can call BD's BOGOs before Transformers a successful strategy and Toshiba's $99 players desperate measure in the same sentence.
As it turns out, BOGOs don't do much. Because there are very few standalones in homes and the majority of PS3 owner
either don't know or don't care that it can play BDs. And it is selling worse than expected to start with. And losing more money than expected.
What next? Right, hell with the PS3s, it's time to give away (!!) standalones, hail BDA's "successful strategy" and claim it's taking off faster than DVD.
Yeah, almost forgot, when it gets really sh!tty, then you claim the Japanese government will never let Sony to go under... Now the picture is complete.
Pathetic.
Diogen.
Every thread about anything HD-DVD has the same old posts from the same old BD-only fanboys. How predictable. We get your point(s).
Actually Toshiba owned Blu-Ray's ass in standalone sales until December. (The Wal-Mart pre-black Friday sale was in November!) Blu-Ray manufacturers had to actually price their players below $500 for sales to take off. No one disputes this. Blu-Ray hardware sales shot up when they bundled hardware. NPD tells this. HD DVD hardware sales went down after the Warner announcement.
I disagree with you on the Toshiba doesn't bundle. Toshiba, Pioneer, Samsung, Sony all bundled for much of last year. I saw many adds for a free HD DVD player with a Toshiba Regza display. I also saw free Blu players with a Sony, Samsung, Pioneer, etc. What made this special is that people bought displays for the Super Bowl. They do every year. The difference is that Toshiba did NOT bundle players this time and that nearly every Blu-Ray manufacturer did. I believe even Sharp and Philips actually showed up. (Remember them?)
Toshiba lost money because of their flash memory business not HD DVD. That is like saying Sony exited the rear projection TV market because of losses on Blu Ray. A little spin is okay. However, that's just pulling crap out of nowhere.
The bottom line is that Toshiba started dropping the price of their standalones when their sales stagnated. Not only did they cut prices up to 40% they started the free giveaway of 5 HD-DVD movies because the lower prices did not stimulate their sales enough. Anyone here who says this did not happen is blind, deaf, and/or dead.
At the time Toshiba already had won the battle on low price and then went lower. They already had their format fleshed out but instead of trading on that and pushing that they gave away free movies. And now the HD-DVD fans are crying - no shouting - foul because the BDA got into the trenches and matched what the HD-DVD crowd was trying to do. They say that Warner must of got paid because that is what it took for Paramount and Dreamworks to go HD-DVD exclusive. They cry foul because of the free BD player with a HDTV purchase but applaud the desperation of selling new technology at basement prices when either format cannot currently support itself completely. Both camps put out their best effort in moving their format to the consumer. The consumer chose BD and is now chosing BD considerably over HD-DVD.
At the time HD-DVD started their discount priceing structure and free movie giveaways they had the lead in standalone sales but had lost the lead in disc sales. I believe that these decisions by Toshiba is what started the discounting, BOGOs, bundling of players with HDTV sales by the BDA. Those BD CE manufacturers got smart and decided to bundle their BD players with their HDTV sales while Toshiba elected to drop the price of their players more and to add to the 5 free movie giveaway.
I know nobody wants to believe this, and for Diogen who sees BD as Sony only and does not see the other 11 CE manufactures involved in BD, but it was the BDA's answer to Toshiba's dropping the price of their HD-DVD players preciptiously that eventually has done in Toshiba. And yes I know they are not out of the game, but I doubt they will be a major player much longer if they are that now at all.
Toshiba rolled their dice, the BDA rolled theirs, Toshiba lost. HD-DVD lost when Warner who OWNS the HDM disc market with their movies chose BD. HD-DVD fans lost because without Warner, HD-DVD has very little to offer to their customers as in big hits down the road or in new movies that excite at the box office. Retailers lost when HD-DVD drop those player prices so much because they could not make any money. HD-DVD lost because Toshiba's business model was doomed from the beginning with no CE support and very little studio support they had to hit homeruns. Instead their idea of dropping the price of the players to DVD prices made their product unapproachable by other CE manufacturers who then fought back by adding a BD player to their HDTV sale which inhanced their sales on HDTV and improved their maket share. In restrospect, Toshiba's dropping their prices so fast did help lower costs on BD players but in turn caused the chain of events that eventually took the horse from their cart and insuring that the other CE manufacturers would do anything to prevent HD-DVD from winning this format war. Sometimes you win a battle but lose the war and that is what happened here with Toshiba.
On another note, Toshiba's ad during the Superbowl will draw alot of attention to their new lower cost players, but when the consumer goes into their local B&M and sees 7 different manufactures of BD product on the shelves and only Toshiba's name on HD-DVD and that is the only choice -- I belive the consumer will pass. Especially when they see if they buy that Samsung, Panasonic, LG, Sharp, Sony HDTV that they want that they will get a free BD player with their purchase.
As I said before, the consumer has chosen BD over HD-DVD. Warner saw that and made their decision to back BD exclusively. Next up is the retailers to make theirs, and the clock is ticking.
At the time Toshiba already had won the battle on low price and then went lower. They already had their format fleshed out but instead of trading on that and pushing that they gave away free movies. And now the HD-DVD fans are crying - no shouting - foul because the BDA got into the trenches and matched what the HD-DVD crowd was trying to do. They say that Warner must of got paid because that is what it took for Paramount and Dreamworks to go HD-DVD exclusive. They cry foul because of the free BD player with a HDTV purchase but applaud the desperation of selling new technology at basement prices when either format cannot currently support itself completely. Both camps put out their best effort in moving their format to the consumer. The consumer chose BD and is now chosing BD considerably over HD-DVD.
At the time HD-DVD started their discount priceing structure and free movie giveaways they had the lead in standalone sales but had lost the lead in disc sales. I believe that these decisions by Toshiba is what started the discounting, BOGOs, bundling of players with HDTV sales by the BDA. Those BD CE manufacturers got smart and decided to bundle their BD players with their HDTV sales while Toshiba elected to drop the price of their players more and to add to the 5 free movie giveaway.
I know nobody wants to believe this, and for Diogen who sees BD as Sony only and does not see the other 11 CE manufactures involved in BD, but it was the BDA's answer to Toshiba's dropping the price of their HD-DVD players preciptiously that eventually has done in Toshiba. And yes I know they are not out of the game, but I doubt they will be a major player much longer if they are that now at all.
Toshiba rolled their dice, the BDA rolled theirs, Toshiba lost. HD-DVD lost when Warner who OWNS the HDM disc market with their movies chose BD. HD-DVD fans lost because without Warner, HD-DVD has very little to offer to their customers as in big hits down the road or in new movies that excite at the box office. Retailers lost when HD-DVD drop those player prices so much because they could not make any money. HD-DVD lost because Toshiba's business model was doomed from the beginning with no CE support and very little studio support they had to hit homeruns. Instead their idea of dropping the price of the players to DVD prices made their product unapproachable by other CE manufacturers who then fought back by adding a BD player to their HDTV sale which inhanced their sales on HDTV and improved their maket share. In restrospect, Toshiba's dropping their prices so fast did help lower costs on BD players but in turn caused the chain of events that eventually took the horse from their cart and insuring that the other CE manufacturers would do anything to prevent HD-DVD from winning this format war. Sometimes you win a battle but lose the war and that is what happened here with Toshiba.
On another note, Toshiba's ad during the Superbowl will draw alot of attention to their new lower cost players, but when the consumer goes into their local B&M and sees 7 different manufactures of BD product on the shelves and only Toshiba's name on HD-DVD and that is the only choice -- I belive the consumer will pass. Especially when they see if they buy that Samsung, Panasonic, LG, Sharp, Sony HDTV that they want that they will get a free BD player with their purchase.
As I said before, the consumer has chosen BD over HD-DVD. Warner saw that and made their decision to back BD exclusively. Next up is the retailers to make theirs, and the clock is ticking.
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To correct myself, maybe Toshiba made some money this last quarter:>
FT.com / Companies / Asia-Pacific - Toshiba warns of 50% fall in Nand chip prices
As someone has already meationed, it was Toshiba's loss on memory chips that did in their fourth quarter, however that 11% loss in operating profit in PC and HD-DVD did not help.
FT.com / Companies / Asia-Pacific - Toshiba warns of 50% fall in Nand chip prices
As someone has already meationed, it was Toshiba's loss on memory chips that did in their fourth quarter, however that 11% loss in operating profit in PC and HD-DVD did not help.
Frustrated? Frustrated???
Ain't you tired of your own duplicity, Joe? You shouldn't read Blu Shill Bill before you go to bed, it can have a negative impact on your health...
Because only that Blu "prophet" can call BD's BOGOs before Transformers a successful strategy and Toshiba's $99 players desperate measure in the same sentence.
As it turns out, BOGOs don't do much. Because there are very few standalones in homes and the majority of PS3 owner
either don't know or don't care that it can play BDs. And it is selling worse than expected to start with. And losing more money than expected.
What next? Right, hell with the PS3s, it's time to give away (!!) standalones, hail BDA's "successful strategy" and claim it's taking off faster than DVD.
Yeah, almost forgot, when it gets really sh!tty, then you claim the Japanese government will never let Sony to go under... Now the picture is complete.
Pathetic.
Diogen.
Actually it was a Video Business report that stated that all HDM disc sales were growing faster the DVD. They did not meation nor show a seperation of BD and HD-DVD nor did they meantion the PS3 as being the reason for this sales trend.
Diogen, your hatred of Sony is immeanse. Since Sony has now agreed to a Managed Copy for BD can you at least give them some slack. They also now allow for managed copy of their music discs. Seems they have heard you and others about their misguided efforts to thwart managed copy and have decided to side with the consumer. You won man, give up the grief!
EH?
Not directed at the guys who dont call me a smurf or fanboy on a daily basis. You notice I said red guys, not ants
What was meant is they cant handle the truth of this statement
I really think Diogen should get is own blog, he and Bill could compete.
Not directed at the guys who dont call me a smurf or fanboy on a daily basis. You notice I said red guys, not ants
What was meant is they cant handle the truth of this statement
I really think Diogen should get is own blog, he and Bill could compete.
I am still confused though the statement says the inferior format is winning. I don't think anyone ever called BD inferior.... Thus making that statement only a half truth.
It's been called expensive, Micromanaged, Sony driven, incomplete... But never inferior.
That would be like calling Beta max inferior to VHS and that would be a complete lie as well....
define ant for me as well, Not sure if that was meant derogatory or not.
Hehe.
You are correct, inferior is less of an issue with the format, more with the player/profile.
You are correct, inferior is less of an issue with the format, more with the player/profile.
I'm frustrated that in their current states HD DVD is better and is going to lose. The public is willing to let BD catch up. Just seems like their wasting my time.
Toshiba is dead ?
Wow I really liked their TV's and what is Sony going to do without the only Cell manufacturing plant in the world....
OMG ... The world is ending.
