New Dish customers read these existing customer posts

waltinvt

Supporting Founder
Original poster
Supporting Founder
Feb 16, 2004
3,439
2
Vermont
If you're thinking of becoming a new Dish customer or even an existing one thinking of moving into Dish's HD arena there are a few things you may not but should know.

Take the time to read threads concerning experiences customers have had with Dish's HD receivers. Also read about promises Dish has made through press releases, Chats and by CSRs to customers. You'll find that what they are doing now to existing HD customers is just the latest in an historical pattern of actions that usually exploit the existing customer in favor of recruiting new ones. Remember if you're a new customer this time, you'll be the existing customer next time.

For example:

Existing customers with 921s or 942s, Dish's last 2 top of the line and most expensive, HD DVR, MPEG2 receivers are not being allowed to receive the new HD channels on their current equipment. Read on.

This is because Dish is saying the new channels are MPEG4, which, on the surface seems reasonable given all the hype about MPEG4 being the latest and greatest format.

However, it's apparently been discovered that these new channels are not really MPEG4 but that Dish has somehow disguised them as MPEG4 so only the new receivers will see them. This fits with recent public statments by Dish that MPEG4 was not working out as expected and would probably be quite some time before it was ready for use.

So is this just Dish's way of getting customers ready in advance for the new technology or a ploy to force $$$ out of existing customers? You decide.

You're one of Dish's long time, top tier, commited, customers with the best programing and equipment and Dish has made all these promises to get you to this point. After delays and excuses, when it looks like they're finally going to come through with some of it, they tell you you can't have it - at least not on the equipment we just sold you (to some as recently as a few weeks ago).

OK, we didn't see that one coming but surely they'll just swap out receivers so we'll be ready for the the new programing when it comes. NO. Ok, surely they'll make the new programing available on existing equipment until they can make the swaps. NO. OK, surely they've got enough stock ready so we can immediatly upgrade with minimal inconvienence and cost. No. Well ok, what does Dish expect of us?

They expect us forgo the new HD for at least 2 months before we can even get on a list to lease an equivilent MPEG4 receiver (622) for $100. If we want to pay $300, we can order a lease unit now but apparently Dish dosen't have any or relativly few units ready to ship so you're going to be waiting who knows how long anyway. Keep in mind you get none of the new channels that have been promised for months while you're waiting. And then they've restructured and raised the price of the programming packages to boot.

Ok, so you're willing to give a little for the sake of progress and to get the new HD as soon as possible. You'll forego your DVR capability for a while and settle for a 211 receiver until you can get a 622. Surely Dish will have some kind of reasonable deal for that option. Mind you, new customers and existing non dvr customers can get into the new channels and a 211 for between $49 & $99. NO. If you want to go that route, then Dish is telling you that you can't get either the $100 or $200 upgrade path for the 622 for a year. If you want to preserve that, then the only way you can get a 211 now is to purchase it for almost $400 from a dealer (probably more once some of them become aware of this situation).

And in addition to all this, Dish has reduced the quality of many of their high defination channels so that it doesn't even meet the accepted standards of HD anymore.

When Dish launched the first 10 Voom channels last year, they promised more later that year and the full 21 channels by the end of 2005. They did not do that. Instead they've just now added 5 but raised the price and restricted them to only the new receivers and programing described above.

On the surface these new Dish HD offerings may look good to new customers but when you look deeper you find out that it may cost you dearly for the next upgrade once you're an "existing customer".

I'm sure I'll get flamed from the usual Dish apologists but hopfully others that know the truth of things will add to this thread with their perspectives, experiences and opinions.
 
WJMorales said:
I agree with 100%. On the other hand that's the price we pay for bragging rights to having the latest and greatest gadgets.
No, it has nothing to do with "bragging rights"; it has to do with making investments in something we enjoy and expecting receive the value we were promised. If we "oh hum" and continue to accept it, then Dish and others will continue to do it.
 
Okay Walt, we know your complaints against Dish. Do we need a new thread every day ranting about the same stuff?
 
WJMorales said:
You're right! Noone is forcing us to buy into Dish's propaganda. Everyone does it on there own will. As long as their are buyers, their will be seller!!!

And, unfortunately, that results in ridiculous things happening. Such as the prices of homes in my area that have gone from 85,000 to 350,000. But people moving in from out of the area don't know any better and still pay the crazy amounts.
 
mdonnelly said:
Okay Walt, we know your complaints against Dish. Do we need a new thread every day ranting about the same stuff?

Ok, do you dispute any of what I've said and if not, do you have an objection to potential new customers being made aware of what they may face as existing customers?

I realize I've had a lot to say about Dish lately and some may think I've even hijacked a few threads with it but this is a new thread and anyone can look and see it's started by me and easily avoid reading it, which was certainly a choice you could have made rather than taking the time to jump in and belittle my right to an honest opinion.
 
waltinvt said:
Ok, do you dispute any of what I've said and if not, do you have an objection to potential new customers being made aware of what they may face as existing customers?

I realize I've had a lot to say about Dish lately and some may think I've even hijacked a few threads with it but this is a new thread and anyone can look and see it's started by me and easily avoid reading it, which was certainly a choice you could have made rather than taking the time to jump in and belittle my right to an honest opinion.

I know I'm fairly new around here, but have been an E* customer since 98. I don't dispute anything you have said and perhaps a thread for new customers like this is even a good idea, however, it should also be noted that with all the complaining that is going on, I don't see a lot of people saying they have dumped dish. I believe that would include you. So I guess I'm asking, is it really all that bad? If you truly believe that E* is hosing you, then cancel the service. In the end, that is what will get any companies attenttion. You vote with your dollars. You can complain all you want, but if you keep paying every month, you are telling them it's ok to do whatever. See what I mean?
 
WJMorales said:
You're right! Noone is forcing us to buy into Dish's propaganda. Everyone does it on there own will. As long as their are buyers, their will be seller!!!

Everything you say is correct - stupid is as stupid does. So you're saying if someone is aware of all this and does it anyway, they deserve what they get. Ok, a little cold and callous but probably true.

Trouble is, some are not aware and in my opinion deserve at least an chance to make an informed decision.

I find it curious that people who apparently don't agree with what I say and in fact almost pre-judge what I'm likely to say, will go out of their way to enter a thread that obviously was started by me and titled such that there's little doubt to what I'm probably talking about and then, instead of just moving on will take the time to criticize it.

I'm sure Dish loves to read that stuff and if they see enough of it may assume the person complaining will loose credibility. Hmmmmmm makes one wonder about the motivation of some in this group.
 
We complain, but in the end we willingly folk over Big Buck$ and buy overpriced Dish hardware just for the privilege of subscribing to their HD programming package. Ugh! FiOS, FiOS, wherefore art thou oh FiOS?

Last time I looked, the prices of electronic components continues to plummet due to increases in efficiency and cheap foreign labor: DVD players $39, a computer system w/monitor $399, etc. I'm sorry, but HD isn't new technology and these receivers are rip-off priced IMO:

* A 211 should be priced at $99.
* A 622 should be priced at $249.

Excuse me now while I shell out another $748 to purchase and lease MPEG-4 receivers. Shame on me.

Somebody please shoot me!!!
 
sk8man said:
however, it should also be noted that with all the complaining that is going on, I don't see a lot of people saying they have dumped dish. I believe that would include you. So I guess I'm asking, is it really all that bad? If you truly believe that E* is hosing you, then cancel the service.

I agree!!!

In fact that is what I did with D* mid January and am eating an expensive TIVO DVR for my efforts.

If things are that bad then switch to something better if it exists.
 
I'm behind you Walt!

Geeez, what is this world coming to???

DN, as a company, leaves a heckuva lot to be desired. They treat their customers like cattle...
they outright lie
they mis-inform
they promise but don't deliver
they make it virtually impossible to get any honest information from them
their CSR's (for the most part) are clueless
they care more about new subscribers than they do their long-time loyal customers
their equipment and software are very unstable, by anybody's standards
they rant about cable and their tactics yet are at least as bad themselves

(I could go on and on, I've been with them for over 9 years. I know I know, what does that say about me?)

And, some are going to jump on someone because they have a gripe that they air??? C'mon...

Bottom line, if we continue to accept the treatment DN dishes out, then we deserve each other.

If somebody wanted to start a 'put my account on hold' for a day or a week so that we could demonstrate to DN that we are united in our disgust, count me in. I would help out in any way that I could.

Walt has a legitimate gripe, this is a forum for voicing our opinions, I don't see the problem at all.

Go get 'em Walt,
George -bub

Kudos to SG for giving us a forum to voice our opinions...
 
waltinvt - As a potential new customer I commend you on such a thread to warn others. It shows your true colors. After hearing about the new HD channels on E* I had made up my mind and decide to jump ship and subscribe. Then I started doing some research online and read some of the most disturbing things about E* as a company. I for one would not have stayed with them after going through what many have on this forum. And I'm not about to join. It's one thing to invest in the latest and greatest and to have the best HD content. It's another to be completely screwed and pissed on by any company regardless of how long you've been a customer. I can't believe that they get away with it. I envy you guys for the programming you have and wish you the best. At the same time I feel your pain because this must be hard to swallow. This is truly a bad situation.
 
riffjim4069 said:
We complain, but in the end we willingly folk over Big Buck$ and buy overpriced Dish hardware just for the privilege of subscribing to their HD programming package. Ugh! FiOS, FiOS, wherefore art thou oh FiOS?

Last time I looked, the prices of electronic components continues to plummet due to increases in efficiency and cheap foreign labor: DVD players $39, a computer system w/monitor $399, etc. I'm sorry, but HD isn't new technology and these receivers are rip-off priced IMO:

* A 211 should be priced at $99.
* A 622 should be priced at $249.

Excuse me now while I shell out another $748 to purchase and lease MPEG-4 receivers. Shame on me.

Somebody please shoot me!!!

BANG! Glad I could help!
 
dlm10541 said:
sk8man said:
however, it should also be noted that with all the complaining that is going on, I don't see a lot of people saying they have dumped dish. I believe that would include you. So I guess I'm asking, is it really all that bad? If you truly believe that E* is hosing you, then cancel the service.
dlm10541 said:
sk8man said:
I agree!!!

In fact that is what I did with D* mid January and am eating an expensive TIVO DVR for my efforts.

If things are that bad then switch to something better if it exists.


Does something better have to exist to have the right to complain and point out legitimate short comings of the company you do business with?

It's quite possible and maybe probable that Dish is still the better of the (now only) 2 options. That doesn't give them the ethical right to treat existing customers the way they have nor does it mean they should go unchallenged for their actions.

Common sense tells intelligent people what will likely happen if even the better of 2 choices is left to go unchecked with no complaints or critizisims.

A good example is the complacity so many at "D" had over their low rez HD. Most chose to put up with it. Has "D" gotten any better ? Did "E" use that to point out how much better theirs was? No, we all see the results of that and can only guess where Dish would be going with it if no one here complained.

Look, I don't mind if you want to disagree with me but if you're going to jump in here and take issue with what I'm saying or my right to say it, at least put up a credible argument. Site facts to prove what I'm saying is wrong; and maybe share specifics about how Dish could improve.

It comes across like some of you people think Dish can do no wrong and why try to improve on perfection.
 
Walt

I agree that there is alot to be upset over and I hope I do not get burned again shortly myself. I am fortuneate to have a fibre cable system to fall back on if I do get burned. I have just found in my 62 years on this earth that you get farther staying calm.

What I am afraid of is that it is too easy to ignore "complainers" no matter how justified ( we all just tune them out in normal conversation). We are also a very vocal minority here. A huge minority in fact.

would guess that Scott and others accurately pass on the feelings of members to Dish and I also suspect Scott has softened his approach as well based on some of his posts.

Don
 
In this country it is buyer beware. This goes true to form. However, what are your offering in return. Did you also inform future DirectTV customers that all HD on this system is HDLITE? Did you also inform them that DirectTV is having tremendous problems with MPEG4 and currently don't have a clue as to how to fix it.

How about they knew the problems with MPEG4 and brought out HD-LIL and sold it to customers and still are without letting them know the problems.

Did you tell those future D* customers about how if they purchase the regular service that with a cloudy - wet day they will probably lose their tv service? This is why where I live most of the folks have moved over to E*. They are tired of losing the signal on even heavy cloudy days.

Did you tell those future Cable customers about the annual price increases? How about the fact that HD is really HDLITE? How about the fact that with cable in most parts of the country you cannot just purchase the HD?

How about calling your post what it really is. You hate DishNetwork. This is a bitch session for those who hate Dish. That is okay, I am sure whatever service you have has more HD than Dish. I am sure that whatever service you have is doing things behind the back of their customers without them knowing about it. (See DirectTv and their HDLIL problems above)

Nothing that you have said is false. However, nothing you have said is a secret. You can find that information just about anywhere on the web including this site. So just what is it you are really trying to say? Hey, if you are not an early adopter than go set and watch your service and wait for the change. As me, my VIP622 is on order and when I get it I will be glad to be abused by Dish while I use my new MPEG4 HDDVR and watch my new HD channels. I guess I like being abused! :)
 
Sounds Like A D* Thread!!!

While reading the posts in this thread I had the feeling that this could be a thread that could also have been about D*. I too was disgruntled about D* making a switch to MPEG4 which to their subs included an outrageous cost to "lease" their new MPEG4 DVR's and Receivers...which at this time are not working out as they were intended. Besides changing your receiving equipment you are also required to replace your existing 3LNB satellite dish to a monstrous 5LNB dish that weighs about 35lbs...God help you in a large wind storm. All this with no new HD programming except CDUSA....I was not impressed!!! Anyway it was cheaper for me and I think a lot better choice to receive more HD programming by switching to E* as a new subscriber. Maybe in the future the next time E* makes a move to change out their equipment at an added cost to their customers for an updated technology, I will have FiOS available in our neighborhood.
 
JoeSp said:
In this country it is buyer beware. This goes true to form. However, what are your offering in return. Did you also inform future DirectTV customers that all HD on this system is HDLITE? Did you also inform them that DirectTV is having tremendous problems with MPEG4 and currently don't have a clue as to how to fix it.

How about they knew the problems with MPEG4 and brought out HD-LIL and sold it to customers and still are without letting them know the problems.

Did you tell those future D* customers about how if they purchase the regular service that with a cloudy - wet day they will probably lose their tv service? This is why where I live most of the folks have moved over to E*. They are tired of losing the signal on even heavy cloudy days.

Did you tell those future Cable customers about the annual price increases? How about the fact that HD is really HDLITE? How about the fact that with cable in most parts of the country you cannot just purchase the HD?

How about calling your post what it really is. You hate DishNetwork. This is a bitch session for those who hate Dish. That is okay, I am sure whatever service you have has more HD than Dish. I am sure that whatever service you have is doing things behind the back of their customers without them knowing about it. (See DirectTv and their HDLIL problems above)

Nothing that you have said is false. However, nothing you have said is a secret. You can find that information just about anywhere on the web including this site. So just what is it you are really trying to say? Hey, if you are not an early adopter than go set and watch your service and wait for the change. As me, my VIP622 is on order and when I get it I will be glad to be abused by Dish while I use my new MPEG4 HDDVR and watch my new HD channels. I guess I like being abused! :)

No I don't "hate" Dish. I sometimes get intensly frustrated at their short-sighted and ill-thought out policies - partly because they've given up the integrity they actually once had but mostly because it's so hard to see them so often throw away the potential of what they could be if they only were more in tune with their customers.

To me this was the perfect time to rally their existing HD base into a new era of high defination television that probably would have really attracted new and lasting customers. Instead they chose to go for the quick $$ and calculate they could send some existing customers to the "edge" but in the end they'd stay.

Probably true but why have a slew of subs just looking for the first opportunity to go with a better choice when instead you could have a base that gives you the benefit of the doubt; customers that will stick it out because they've seen from past experience that Dish IS concerned about their existing customers instead of trying to gouge them every time they think they have the upper hand.
 
I was sort of hoping that E* would somehow see how a number of it's better customers; ones who have RECENTLY spent in some cases thousands of dollars on equipment, could be upset about this. And seeing that upset, would relent and at least make their MPEG-2/4 channels available to all current HD subscribers during a "transition" period, at the "new" prices naturally.

E* has elected not to do this. They do not care that the folks mentioned above are upset. In fact they are counting on this investment deterring them from switching to whatever choice is available to them. E* actions have also rendered any idea of selling this equipment and switching useless by offering you the choice of selling your 921/942 and telling the truth, resulting in a massive loss or not saying anything, selling your 942/921 and well, you suck for ripping off an unsuspecting innocent. Of course, you could send it back and get a $25 credit. Nice touch, E*

What I DON'T understand is D*'s actions (or lack of) in all this. They could have easily picked up thousands of customers, just by offering a HR10-250 and the promise of a cheap (non-lease) upgrade for cheap to disgruntled E* types.

Both E* and D* know change is in the wind. They also know they are NOT the future. They are electing to make hay while the sun shines.

I can't speak for anyone else, but, I'm done with any HD via Satellite. It's HD OTA as long as my MPEG-2 receiver will continue to receive it. Then, come March 2007 or whenever they shut the MPEG-2 stream off, I've got a couple of $600 250GB hard drives.
 
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