More on Dish HDCP
- Thread starter Scott Greczkowski
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Ever hear of a thing called FEC? Forward Error Correction. It's a method of restoring lost data in digital content. When analog pixels are lost, it is replaced by "grain" or the background snow. When a digital pixel is lost, there is usually a generic color pixel to fill its place. Data streams are sent with packets of data that tell the equipment what color pixel to put in the place of a missing pixel. These replacement pixels are part of large squares of pixels sort of like a background grid. This is why in circumstances involving high error counts, you will see "tiling". Tiles are the replacement pixels and as the original data is lost, more and more of the picture is composed of these background tiles.
An example would be a sportscaster wearing a red coat. Normally you would get information telling the equipment which specific color of red to show for each pixel of the red coat (100% uncompressed). There will also be a feed that says any of those pixels get lost, replace with generic red #5, for example. A few pixels get lost and you know nothing of it, technically many pixels are lost through compression. When lots of those pixels are lost, the red coat appears blotchy and in extreme circumstances even tiled. So, while the viewer may have a picture, they might not have a good one if data is being lost. It's not a "you have it or don't have it" situation. It's just that you can lose quite a bit of data and still have a good picture even with some reliance on FEC.
I don't know to what extent HDMI switches will affect picture quality. I will say that most likely, you get what you pay for so bargain bin switches is probably not the way to go. Look for certification on products such as the HDMI logo.
I purchased a $199 Psyclone PSC47 HDMI switch, they sell on Best Buy. It is HDMI 1.3 compliant. So hopefully it works with a Dish DVR. There's more expensive ones out there, but also alot cheaper ones. I really liked that one though.
This just makes me so mad. It is EXACTLY the kind of thing that will drive people to get pirated HD material so they can still watch in HD.
My Mitsubishi rear projection DLP has only one digital input, a DVI input. It is HDCP compliant, but I have upconverting DVD player plugged into it, (using an HDMI to DVI cable) because the same stupid DRM decisions are forcing players to only upconvert over HDMI.
So my 622 is plugged into my TV with Component.
I KNOW I can buy a switch and then manually switch between my dvr and my dvd player. But I shouldn't have to. It will get to the point where I can no longer watch my Dish programming in HD, and then I will have a choice:
- Watch Dish programming in SD
or
- Watch downloaded pirated HD versions of the same shows.
I know the choice will be hard for me, and for many others with less scruples it will be a lot easier. Why watch in SD when I can easily watch in HD?
And if the studios think that this will stop HD copying and pirating, they are insane. No effort like that has EVER stopped the pirates. It just annoys legitimate customers.
My Mitsubishi rear projection DLP has only one digital input, a DVI input. It is HDCP compliant, but I have upconverting DVD player plugged into it, (using an HDMI to DVI cable) because the same stupid DRM decisions are forcing players to only upconvert over HDMI.
So my 622 is plugged into my TV with Component.
I KNOW I can buy a switch and then manually switch between my dvr and my dvd player. But I shouldn't have to. It will get to the point where I can no longer watch my Dish programming in HD, and then I will have a choice:
- Watch Dish programming in SD
or
- Watch downloaded pirated HD versions of the same shows.
I know the choice will be hard for me, and for many others with less scruples it will be a lot easier. Why watch in SD when I can easily watch in HD?
And if the studios think that this will stop HD copying and pirating, they are insane. No effort like that has EVER stopped the pirates. It just annoys legitimate customers.
I doubt it'll last long. I really do.
They (studios) don't see what kind of an uproar it will cause...not only in the satellite installation industry.
They (studios) don't see what kind of an uproar it will cause...not only in the satellite installation industry.
As long as Hollywierd has Congressional Democrats in their pocket DMCA will keep being pushed, revised, enforced by the might of the U.S. Federal Gubmint.
I purchased a HDMI to DVI cable to connect my 722 to my HD TV, in advance of this HDCP stuff. It wouldn't work. After a hour or so of messing around, I was able to isolate the problem to the port on the 722. I called DISH and a very nice tech rep confirmed the problem. She said that DVI port problems are a "known issue" with the 722. They are sending me a replacement.
I suggest anyone planning to use their 722 DVI port go ahead and check it out.
I suggest anyone planning to use their 722 DVI port go ahead and check it out.
Seems to me you don't know what HDMI or DVI port means - the 722 DOESN'T have DVI connector.
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I bought and used a relatively cheap 3-way one for a while. It worked just fine, never noticed any degradation. Later I bought an Onkyo 805, which does all my switching now. Still, no noticeable loss of signal quality.
HDMI is just DVI + Audio. Very easily split with an adapter.
The real question is: Does the TV support HDCP over DVI or not?
So are they gonna implement this via software update, and do it like my upconverting DVD player, and disable resolution selection via component and set it to 480i or 480p by default?
Thank you. From what I've read, my TV should be HDCP compliant over DVI.HDMI is just DVI + Audio. Very easily split with an adapter.
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Dish will have to do something on their end (in the receiver's software). I'm curious how they'll test this though as they can't do anything until the flag exists in the stream from the providers. The resolution setting will remain as it is today. It has to be "correct" or as the user wants for non-protected programs and you can't change the resolution "on the fly" anyway.
They could 'inject' the flag any time for that current DRMx channels. No one customer will affected.
Could you please correct your own post in that part what show DVI instead of HDMI related to 722 ?
Ppl using search will mistakenly served with wrong description.
I'd still take this all with a grain of salt.
Most of you guys are failing to recognize that this would have drastic changes beyond simple satellite installs.
There's a ton of people - and places - out there that rely on component. What about restaurants or bars that have a distributed component feed? Please don't tell me they're expecting distributed HDMI...
This won't happen, and if it does, it won't last long.
Most of you guys are failing to recognize that this would have drastic changes beyond simple satellite installs.
There's a ton of people - and places - out there that rely on component. What about restaurants or bars that have a distributed component feed? Please don't tell me they're expecting distributed HDMI...
This won't happen, and if it does, it won't last long.
Right and until Dish updates software on the receivers, the flag will simply be ignored.
Like I said: I believe they'll do it like it's implemented into my Philips upconvert DVD player. HDMI will have the choice of different resolution settings, and if connected to component, it'll be progressive scan for best picture only. I can't change the resolution on it if connected via component, like I can on the 722. Who knows, it might be just hardware restricted on my DVD player.
Eff
I am a member of the EFF so I have sent an email to them to verify if this is going to happen. If they do verify it I have asked if there is a way to "throw a monkey wrench" into the this plan.
I am a member of the EFF so I have sent an email to them to verify if this is going to happen. If they do verify it I have asked if there is a way to "throw a monkey wrench" into the this plan.
