AMC14 The Rescue mission: Lunar Burn may be a reality.

[navychop]

Aren't they already having problems with the 129's orbit?

129's orbit is just fine. Nice and stable. It's the ability of the satellite to stay properly aimed that is the problem. Orientation, not orbital, problem.

The replacement, Ciel-2, is to be launched late this year. Good. On a Proton. Good. Using an upper stage of the Briz-M type, AKA Breeze-M. Double Ungood. This is the upper stage that just failed, and that they have so many problems with.

I suspect there will be a delay in the Ciel-2 launch, as they investigate this failure- and hopefully, arrange for another type of upper stage.

 

[wtb955]

In my personal experiences, most engineers are idiots. Yes, they have a lot of knowledge and are typically experts in their fields, but most have lost the ability to see shades of gray. Everything is black and white. They have no common sense. That's why I never went to college for engineering, I was afraid of becoming stoopid.

Did it work?

 

[rocatman]

Very disappointed by the launch vehicle failure. I would elaborate further on possible recovery options but don't have time currently. I do want to point out that Dish invested tens of millions of dollars to have the AMC-14 satellite modified in order for it to have the capability to be used over to areas; either 61.5 W to 77 W or 110 W to 148 W. This maybe a major factor related to insurance and what is done with the satellite.

 

[navychop]

To add to Mattopia's comments on satellite radio vs satellite TV:

The frequencies satellite radio use are reserved for that purpose. No one else is using those frequencies. For that, and power level and other reasons, you can use a more or less omni-directional antenna. Your antenna can receive the signal from any angle, and it's the same signal.

For satellite TV, you must aim at the satellite. The frequency the satellite uses is also used by other satellites. So you have to point at the satellite you want, on the correct frequency/ies, to get the correct signal. If you aim elsewhere, you might get a totally different signal from another satellite on that same frequency.

Just to stir the pot a tiny bit more, one satellite can send down a tight signal beam on frequency X, aimed at, for example, Kansas City. And it could also send down another tightly aimed signal, on that same frequency X, to New York City. The "footprints" of the two signals do not overlap, so people in those two locations can get, for example, their own local stations, on the same frequency.

 

[jayn_j]

Those dang laws of physics unfortunately are pretty black and white.

Unfortunately there are bad engineers, but there are also incredibly good engineers. They are people just like everyone else. It's amazing that those "idiots" have managed to engineer a space program over the last 50 years which now lets you receive TV from space.

It's good to hear your not "stoopid" but maybe you shouldn't do any engineering either.

Yep, this idiot has me kinda torqued. Need to vent a little before I can let it go. Mdwatt, that is, not you Schaffer. It seems like my profession is being attacked more often these days for actually trying to know the facts before spouting some ignorant opinion, and stating that engineers have no sense of social responsibility.

Mdwatt doesn't give a thought to technology when he uses it. Next year when he gets on a 787, he ought to be glad that I have an organized mind and pay attention to details. Instead, he will be complaining that it took too long to serve his coke, and telling his buddies that engineers are clueless geeks.

Over the years, I have been involved with a fair amount. I have been a member of committees trying to get a handle on preventing and responding to nuclear terrorist attacks. I have been a community advisor to the local school board on budget, district boundries, and new high school planning. I have worked with the county on road issues, including planning for future volume. I have volunteered at the local woman's shelter, mostly doing the construction projects. I have organized too many motorsport competitions to count. I am an assistant scoutmaster. I have been a coach, school co-ordinator and/or district problem captain for Odyssey of the Mind for the last ten years. I have worked political campaigns at many different levels. I have organized a successful boycott. As a Ham, I have provided communications during many civic events and during two major emergencies. Mdwatt, what's in YOUR wallet?

 

[navychop]

And I agree with Rocatman. I suspect Echostar has lost some bucks on this. It's not like leasing a house. There's some risk sharing. But SES Americom and the insurance companies no doubt are losing far more.

And now, Proton will be "out of service" for some period of time. Then they'll likely return it to service, but not using the Breeze-M upper stage. Future launches that currently plan on using the Breeze-M, like Ciel-2, may be delayed. With so many Breeze-M failures, I suspect it will need a major redesign, or be abandoned in favor of other upper stages.

BTW, the Breeze-M uses the same fuel (along with another) that our recently destroyed failed spy satellite uses. But not as much, by far- so I don't think anyone will see a need to shoot it down.

 

[Smith P.]

Yep, this idiot has me kinda torqued. Need to vent a little before I can let it go. Mdwatt, that is, not you Schaffer. It seems like my profession is being attacked more often these days for actually trying to know the facts before spouting some ignorant opinion, and stating that engineers have no sense of social responsibility.

Mdwatt doesn't give a thought to technology when he uses it. Next year when he gets on a 787, he ought to be glad that I have an organized mind and pay attention to details. Instead, he will be complaining that it took too long to serve his coke, and telling his buddies that engineers are clueless geeks.

Over the years, I have been involved with a fair amount. I have been a member of committees trying to get a handle on preventing and responding to nuclear terrorist attacks. I have been a community advisor to the local school board on budget, district boundries, and new high school planning. I have worked with the county on road issues, including planning for future volume. I have volunteered at the local woman's shelter, mostly doing the construction projects. I have organized too many motorsport competitions to count. I am an assistant scoutmaster. I have been a coach, school co-ordinator and/or district problem captain for Odyssey of the Mind for the last ten years. I have worked political campaigns at many different levels. I have organized a successful boycott. As a Ham, I have provided communications during many civic events and during two major emergencies. Mdwatt, what's in YOUR wallet?

I'm totally offended by Mdwatt post and asked Mods to ban him !

 

[Hemi 6.1]

I'm totally offended by Mdwatt post and asked Mods to ban him !

Why??

 

[Andrewwski]

I'll second that. It was totally uncalled for to attempt to put down an entire profession for no good reason.

But I don't really care, all he's doing is making himself look like an idiot, not the group that he is attacking.

 

[Smith P.]

Hemi, why not stop this side discussion and move it into other thread ?!

 

[Hemi 6.1]

Hemi, why not stop this side discussion and move it into other thread ?!

I agree with that! But to ban him from satellite guys is a bit extreme! Why would you even take this personal? He doesn't know you and you don't know him! You didn't see me going to the Mods for getting called a "dickhead" 3 times in one sentence.

 

[Andrewwski]

Not ban, but a warning and/or deletion of that post seems like it'd be appropriate.

But, whatever, back on topic...

 

[Sammy033]

But, whatever, back on topic...

On topic, we can all guarantee that many very smart people are figuring out what to do and they arent going to take chances. I would rather wait for the various channels we all hope to see so they can take their time and do it right. Above all: dont panic.

Since I am on a contract I have no choice but to wait anyways.

 

[foghorn2]

I'm totally offended by Mdwatt post and asked Mods to ban him !

I agree with what he said. Why ban him?

 

[rockymtnhigh]

In my personal experiences, most engineers are idiots. Yes, they have a lot of knowledge and are typically experts in their fields, but most have lost the ability to see shades of gray. Everything is black and white. They have no common sense. That's why I never went to college for engineering, I was afraid of becoming stoopid.

Afraid of becoming more stoopid you mean. Or maybe stupider?

 

[mike123abc]

It is possible that the insurance company ends up "buying" it by reimbursing SES, then turns around and sells its salvage value to someone like Echostar. They could even have an arrangement where Echostar pays $X up front for the attempt to get it to a good orbit and $Y each year the satellite actually works if it gets into orbit properly (i.e. how much fuel would be left).

The insurance company would probably jump at the chance to get salvage value. Any money is better than having the satellite sent to burn up in the atmosphere.

The salvage value of course would be $0 if it is determined that it would be impossible to get it to the geosync orbit with the fuel on board.

Echostar would probably pay big bucks to get the satellite even with just a few years of life left in fuel to cover the gap of waiting on a replacement.

 

[Jim S.]

BTW, the Breeze-M uses the same fuel (along with another) that our recently destroyed failed spy satellite uses. But not as much, by far- so I don't think anyone will see a need to shoot it down.

Totally off topic, but because I'm an amateur astronomer, does anyone know where the Breeze-M is? Has it re-entered, or is it in orbit? If it's in orbit, did it dump its remaining fuel? If not, it runs the risk of exploding later, littering its orbit with dangerous junk.

 

[Peter Parker]

I don't agree with what he said. But banning him. that would be ridiculous.

 

[dfergie]

I don't agree with what he said. But banning him. that would be ridiculous.

:up Thats why we are SatelliteGuys ...

 

[Hemi 6.1]

:up Thats why we are SatelliteGuys ...

Agreed!