Cease all SD Broadcasts

[DustoMan]

I have talked to DISH about this.. They want to do this... the programmers however are not keen about it.

Probably because they are worried about people complaining about how their channels look. If you take a SD channel and blow it up, it looks distorted. If you take a HD signal and downconvert it to an SD display you lose a ton of detail. There's no way to do it without it looking messy.

We'll get pure HD someday... just not any time soon.

While I can understand the fact that the "programmers, however, are not keen about it," I do not find that to be a valid argument.

Come on, between blocking GoogleTV but not laptops/computers attached to TVs and restricting the amount of content that can be viewed on Hulu's site and offered through Hulu Plus. When have programmers ever had reasonable arguments for their backwards logic?

 

[Jhon69]

My TV doctor says my 50" Philips Magnavox should last at least 7 more years.

 

[Jhon69]

Probably because they are worried about people complaining about how their channels look. If you take a SD channel and blow it up, it looks distorted. If you take a HD signal and downconvert it to an SD display you lose a ton of detail. There's no way to do it without it looking messy.

We'll get pure HD someday... just not any time soon.

It looks good on my RPTV and VIP622.

If you want pure HD the closest you can get now is with an OTA antenna.

 

[inazsully]

Why do you think all of a sudden "D" and "E" started advertising "Free HD for Life"? Because they know that sooner, not later, the people buying new HD TV's are going to insist on watching HD to justify their purchase. If it's free why would you not want it. OTA HD is also free. I'm not sure if the cable company's are doing HD for Free yet but they will. If I have the option of watching Disney HD or SD and they cost the same, guess which one I'm going to watch. Which is why "D" will be the choice of the majority of people with those new HD TV's. and why "E" is cutting off their nose to spite their face.

 

[Bogy]

I have 3 HD tv's in my house, 1 ED, and 5 SD's. Actually 7 SD's, but a couple aren't hooked up currently. I sure hope all those SD's don't go "in the next few years." In fact, for what I spent on at least one of the HD's, it will probably go before some of the SD's.

 

[mrc54]

When I watch HD channels thru TV2 composite output hooked to a 35" Mitsubishi, the picture quality is much better than SD channel counterpart. The SD channels look awful when veiwed on the 50" Samsung with my 722k.

 

[dwarren2]

My 2 cents on the subject. I thinl a lot of people who have gone to sat technology tend to have already converted to HD sets. However, I wonder how many people who are still on cable have? How many of them have sets that can't process HD content and can only receive SD content?

 

[inazsully]

My 2 cents on the subject. I thinl a lot of people who have gone to sat technology tend to have already converted to HD sets. However, I wonder how many people who are still on cable have? How many of them have sets that can't process HD content and can only receive SD content?

Probably more than had TV's that could not receive digital content, but they got over it. HD is a marketers dream. Look at the multi million dollar companies that have ALL their eggs in the HD basket. ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, Sony, Panasonic, Samsung, Disney,Toshiba, LG, Dish Network, DirecTV, Cox, Comcast, Turner. We're talking plasma's, LCD's, Blu-ray players, blu-ray movies etc. It boggles the mind to see the depth and money involved here. You can buy a 40" HD TV right now for $500 or less. Even if you only watch OTA the HD broadcast is free.

 

[DishSubLA]

I talked to all the programmers and they said they will do it if you pay for all their costs to upgrade to HD, as well as cover the costs to upgrade all customers who do not have HD equipment or TV's.

We would all love all HD, but its going to take a long long time.

And 3D is going to have the same challenge for acceptance by the vast majority of TV content producers and broadcasters. The video cameras alone are ridiculously expensive. Sports and movies only perhaps. What is compelling about having The View or House in 3D? None. A hugely successful show like House doesn't need the financial burden of 3D and its subsequent cost to broadcast in 3D (can the ATSC even handle that?) because the high quality of that content is in the writing and acting. The studios just spent billions replacing switchers and cameras and even The Doctors was still SD until a few weeks ago. They aint a lookin' for more money to spend.

 

[DishSubLA]

What?? Yes I said it. Stop all SD broadcasts and go 100% HD. Oh my God! Are you serious? What about all the people that can't get HD? Boo Hoo. Remember all the flack when it was announced that analog would be turned off and we were going all digital? That was a more difficult ordeal than switching from SD to HD would be. All new displays are HD. "D" and "E: both offer free HD for life so where is the cost disadvantage? A few channels would have to convert or shut down but come on, we would all be better in the long term and the short term. No more RSN rants would be nice. Just do it. Pull the all HD trigger.

What I really want is for TV to STOP framing their HDTV programs for the full screen 4:3. One of HD's most compelling features, PQ so clear and detailed one can see craggy details on an actor's face, being CLOSER to the subject made one close to being there in person, is greatly diminished. One of the things I did like about the old VOOM was how almost all the content was framed for HDTV and cameras could get closer to the subjects. It was and extremely more aesthetic and compelling experience. So, it is let the 4:3'ers have black bars all the time.

 

[DishSubLA]

I have talked to DISH about this.. They want to do this... the programmers however are not keen about it.

Understandably so, for they want to "double dip" the cost to Dish, cable, etc. for carrying both SD and HD, right? Heaven forbid, but this issue of providers like Dish being able to send out HD only and allow SD customers to down-convert, may even have to be legislated, and the providers have a good argument with expensive bandwidth issues. Even cable could promise less throttling of its ISP service if they were allowed to reclaim the bandwidth used for SDTV services because what they really gain is effectively killing the "double dip" charge to them for SD and HD (worth any lie to Congress) and we know (seems rational from what is transpiring now with Disney) that is what all the channels' big plan is for revenue increases.

 

[dishcomm]

What?? Yes I said it. Stop all SD broadcasts and go 100% HD. Oh my God! Are you serious? What about all the people that can't get HD? Boo Hoo. Remember all the flack when it was announced that analog would be turned off and we were going all digital? That was a more difficult ordeal than switching from SD to HD would be. All new displays are HD. "D" and "E: both offer free HD for life so where is the cost disadvantage? A few channels would have to convert or shut down but come on, we would all be better in the long term and the short term. No more RSN rants would be nice. Just do it. Pull the all HD trigger.

Because I have two perfectly good working CRT tv's that until they die, I am NOT going to throw away hundreds of dollars for TV's I do not need.
You should note there is a growing trend among logical and fiscally responsible people to live within their means.
That translates to "If they do not have the cash to buy something, they don't buy it."
I have cash. It's not for illogical purchases for things I do not need.
If my wash machine hits the crapper tomorrow, I have the coin to go buy a new one. If my HVAC system breaks, I have the money to fix THAT.
Priorities...Get it?
I can't wash clothes in a flat panel tv. Get it?

 

[mike123abc]

Because I have two perfectly good working CRT tv's that until they die, I am NOT going to throw away hundreds of dollars for TV's I do not need.
You should note there is a growing trend among logical and fiscally responsible people to live within their means.
That translates to "If they do not have the cash to buy something, they don't buy it."
I have cash. It's not for illogical purchases for things I do not need.
If my wash machine hits the crapper tomorrow, I have the coin to go buy a new one. If my HVAC system breaks, I have the money to fix THAT.
Priorities...Get it?
I can't wash clothes in a flat panel tv. Get it?

I think that the point of the thread is that they do not need the SD versions of all the shows since the receiver will downconvert as needed. If you do not have an HD TV the receiver will still take care of you.

On EA you have to have an HD receiver since everything is MPEG-4. Those with SD service still have an HD receiver that downconverts HD channels to SD. But, even EA with all the HD receivers still sends an SD version of the channels like WA for no really good reason other than the programming providers demand it.

 

[dishcomm]

I think that the point of the thread is that they do not need the SD versions of all the shows since the receiver will downconvert as needed. If you do not have an HD TV the receiver will still take care of you.

On EA you have to have an HD receiver since everything is MPEG-4. Those with SD service still have an HD receiver that downconverts HD channels to SD. But, even EA with all the HD receivers still sends an SD version of the channels like WA for no really good reason other than the programming providers demand it.

Thanks. I was thinking the OP was perhaps being a bit elitist in that he was suggesting we all run out and buy flat panel tv's.

 

[Slamminc11]

Thanks. I was thinking the OP was perhaps being a bit elitist in that he was suggesting we all run out and buy flat panel tv's.

That's the way I took it!

 

[Claude Greiner]

First of all I don't think Dish has manufactured a Standard Definition receiver in over 4 years. The reason why they are still using SD equipment because its being recycled from customers who have disconnected service.

What I have noticed is 3 things...

#1 All the SD QPSK equipment is now obselete. Once Dish gets it back, they are either destroying it, or shipping it down to Mexico. They are not deploying this equipment to new customers.

#2 All the SD 8PSK equipment, such as the 311 is being recycled and sold as re-furbished equipment.

#3 All the SD 8PSK equipment is being pushed to all the lower credit tier customers that are pay in advance. These customers are more likely to disconnect, and with the amount of upfront investment Dish is requiring from these customers I don't think it makes a difference if these customers ever return the equipment if they cancel.

Right now what we are seeing is a slow conversion to 8PSK equipment, and the first thing we are going to see is a 100% 8PSK service. From there, it will be a slow rollout to all MPEG4 8PSK equipment.

There are several factors that speed up the conversion...

#1 Churn - As customers disconnect, and equipment is not returned this removes available SD equipment from the system.

#2 Equipment Failures - Not a big number, but we are not producing new SD equipment to replace broken SD equipment. Broken SD equipment is being replaced with SD equipment thats recycled from disconnected customers.

#3 Equipment upgrades - Customers eventually upgrade televisions and request upgraded equipment.

Eventually it all gets down to the point where you get a percentage of customers who are happy where they are at, and are never going to disconnect or upgrade the equipment on their own. When it makes it to the point where the bandwith and cost savings makes sense upgrading those customers for Free to cease using their type of equipment, we will see the conversion complered.

Its just like with Starband. We started with the 180 series modems, and a year later they came out with the 360 modems which apparently used half the amount of system resources and bandwith. I remember within a matter of months everyone got new modems for free and got to keep the old ones.

 

[inazsully]

Thanks. I was thinking the OP was perhaps being a bit elitist in that he was suggesting we all run out and buy flat panel tv's.

Not at all suggesting that everybody run out and buy flat panels. I don't have a flat panel. My thinking is that when you replace your existing SD display it will be with an HD display. Because my impression is that any receiver, HD or SD, will convert the HD signal as needed then why bother with SD broadcasts? Why waste the bandwidth? It was mentioned earlier that 9 million subs still get SD. Why would sending an HD signal to these displays bother them? If however, you were inclined to run out and buy a flat panel, I've seen 32" for under $300.

 

[whatchel1]

Let's look at Dish Network history before you ask for this:

Dish Network switches over to HD only(basically) Disney asks for more money for their HD feed(did you forget already?) Charlie says No!,so you lose a channel you may like with no SD backup channel to watch.:river

What Disney asked for was to be paid once for SD and again for same program in HD. So if E* is only taking the HD feed then there should only have to be 1 payment. That was the "premise" that E* was going under as it was the same programming so why were they to pay twice for the same thing.

 

[DishSubLA]

Correct. Of course Disney would say, "Yes, Dish should pay us twice for the same content." As for john69's assertion of not having an SD backup: We are leaving the page where channels are going to be referred to as HD. Meaning that Dish would offer the Disney channel and you have HD equipment, you get it in HD, and if you have SD equipment, you still get the same feed as the HD, but it is down converted by the box to your SDTV. So, it becomes a situation BEFORE the HD's came into existence. If Dish loses Disney channel, we ALL lose it.

It makes no economic sense for any provider such as Dish, DirecTV, cable, etc, to pay one fee for the SD and another the HD simulcast in the long run. This "double dipping" attempt by the channels is going to come to a head soon as it does become economical to switch everyone over to receiving the HD signal only with its bandwidth saving benifit and my even have to be legislated because these channels are NOT going to give up the "double dipping" dream plan they have to have ever more ways to extrude $$$ money from the providers.

 

[whatchel1]

NOT going to give up the "double dipping" dream plan they have to have ever more ways to extrude $$$ money from the providers.

Shouldn't that be extort $$$ ?