Seriously considering OTA only - Any flaws in my plan?

[HDRoberts]

With a pending nearly 17% increase in my Dish America pack, and with the realization that the only cable shows I really care that much about are online, I'm seriously looking at OTA/Netflix only (maybe with some Hulu on the PC thrown in). But before I did, I thought I'd check for any flaws in my plan.

First, the biggest reason I have kept Dish so long is the DVR. I cannot give up that experience. That said, I also do not want to pay rediculous fees to TiVo for the rest of my life, either. So my plan was to get a used TiVo Series 3/HD with a lifetime subscription on ebay. I could get one upgraded, or do it myself. It looks like it does do Digital OTA fine. I also have one remaining analog LP station I'd like to get. Any problems getting that at the same time with Digital OTA? I presume clearQAM is not possible for a TiVO. How about mixing in analog cable? And I seriously hope I can turn off the "beep-boop" tivo noise.

Second, antenna choice. I live within 8 miles of all broadcast towers I want to receive from, except on PBS I could live without which is 26.1 miles away. I have 2 remaining high-VHF stations which are traditionally the hardest to get in Cleveland, WJW-8 on channel 8, and WOIO-19, no broadcasting on channel 10 (the latter being the worst, as I can intermittently get the former on my indoor antenna). On my current indoor antenna (no doubt impeded by my aluminum siding), I also have trouble with WBNX-55 on channel 30 and WVIZ-25 broadcasting on channel 26. It is also worth noting that all channels I'm looking at are in about 45 degrees of each other (all but one within 15 degrees). FYI, here is my TVFool plot:

Another complication that plot does not take into account is that I live very close to an airport, with planes passing 1500 feet over my house on a regular basis, and at times, this does cause some added interference.

I was considering the Winegard HD-1080, as it is relatively small. Best yet, it is $29 on Amazon with free shipping. My biggest worry is it's channel 8 gain does not appear to be the best. Any thoughts?

As for mounting, W was thinking I could just yank the dish off the mast for the Dish 500 that was pointing at 61.5 and reuse the mast. Plus, I'd then reuse the existing coax. Thoughts on that?

Or thoughts on the plan in general?

Thanks for your help.

 

[harshness]

Have you confirmed with TiVo that lifetime subscriptions are both available and transferable?

Clear QAM is possible, but you would almost certainly have to subscribe to some level of cable TV to use it.

Note also that if you decide you need a second or successive DVR, TiVo may or may not offer you multi-unit discounts depending on the terms of you subscriptions.

 

[jayn_j]

plan seems solid. BTW, my TIVO premiere receives clear QAM just fine. If you are using a cable modem, you may just find that there is little to no difference in price between internet only and internet plus lifeline or basic cable. The cable companies find it too much trouble to clock the basic signals and are required by regulation to provide the OTA stuff in clear QAM. Less hassle that trying to put up and maintaining antennas, and you would still get a few basic channels.

You can buy a new Premiere with lifetime directly from TIVO, but its not cheap. TIVO does not yet support Hulu, although it is rumored to be 'soon'. The Netflix interface is primitive and will only select stuff that is in your queue. You need a computer to browse and select. Also the netflix on the TIVO is not DD 5.1, only stereo. Might be better to have a PS3 or Boxee for the online content.

 

[jayn_j]

Have you confirmed with TiVo that lifetime subscriptions are both available and transferable?

Clear QAM is possible, but you would almost certainly have to subscribe to some level of cable TV to use it.

Note also that if you decide you need a second or successive DVR, TiVo may or may not offer you multi-unit discounts depending on the terms of you subscriptions.

TIVO lifetimes are bonded to the box, not the user, so they sell with the unit. They can be transferred to another unit, but it isn't cheap. There are multi-unit monthly discounts available if you aren't using the current promotion. Current promotion is actually a pretty good deal, but the monthly fee is amortizing the cost of the box, so it is going to be the best you can do.

 

[Hall]

As for mounting, W was thinking I could just yank the dish off the mast for the Dish 500 that was pointing at 61.5 and reuse the mast. Plus, I'd then reuse the existing coax. Thoughts on that?

Could be a very good plan but it depends on where the dish is currently mounted in regards to the direction of the local stations.

 

[HDRoberts]

plan seems solid. BTW, my TIVO premiere receives clear QAM just fine. If you are using a cable modem, you may just find that there is little to no difference in price between internet only and internet plus lifeline or basic cable. The cable companies find it too much trouble to clock the basic signals and are required by regulation to provide the OTA stuff in clear QAM. Less hassle that trying to put up and maintaining antennas, and you would still get a few basic channels.

You can buy a new Premiere with lifetime directly from TIVO, but its not cheap. TIVO does not yet support Hulu, although it is rumored to be 'soon'. The Netflix interface is primitive and will only select stuff that is in your queue. You need a computer to browse and select. Also the netflix on the TIVO is not DD 5.1, only stereo. Might be better to have a PS3 or Boxee for the online content.

I thought the issue with ClearQAM was that without a cablecard, it could not decode where the stations belong, thus it could not attach guide data and therefore could not record off them. Can you record yours?

I have a BluRay player that does netflix as well, so I'm not too worried about that functionality. Hulu would be nice down the road, but for now I think I'll be OK with just watching on my PC.

As for why I was going with a used unit, a lifetime sub is $399, plus $300 for the unit itself. Used units seem to be going in the $400-450 range. I'm just looking at dropping the monthly fee all together.

And, as for the person wondering about transfering service, from the Tivo website:

Product Lifetime Subscription includes a subscription to the TiVo service for the useable life of the TiVo DVR you buy – not the life of the subscriber – and may not be transferred to another TiVo DVR. A Product Lifetime Subscription accompanies the TiVo DVR it is associated with in case of ownership transfer of that TiVo DVR. For more information on Product Lifetime Subscriptions, please refer to the TiVo Service Agreement. Of course, hardware products don't last forever and their lifespan will vary. TiVo makes no warranties or representations as to the expected lifetime of the TiVo DVR (aside from the manufacturer's Limited Warranty).

TiVo Payment Plans - TiVo

 

[HDRoberts]

Could be a very good plan but it depends on where the dish is currently mounted in regards to the direction of the local stations.

The dish was for 61.5, southwest from me, and all my channels are in the same direction, so I think there is a good shot of working.

 

[Hall]

Ahhh, I thought from the TVFool image that your stations were generally SouthEast and most people's dishes are pointed South-SouthWest (in our area). Thought that could be a problem...

 

[jayn_j]

I thought the issue with ClearQAM was that without a cablecard, it could not decode where the stations belong, thus it could not attach guide data and therefore could not record off them. Can you record yours?

I have a BluRay player that does netflix as well, so I'm not too worried about that functionality. Hulu would be nice down the road, but for now I think I'll be OK with just watching on my PC.

As for why I was going with a used unit, a lifetime sub is $399, plus $300 for the unit itself. Used units seem to be going in the $400-450 range. I'm just looking at dropping the monthly fee all together.

But since you have lifetime service, that means you have the right to obtain the guide data from TIVO. When I first got my Premiere, it took a long time for TWC to figure out the cablecard and tuning adapter. However, I set up my TIVO service as OTA and Cable. I was able to receive alll of the clear QAM signals in the correctly mapped channels for the month it took TWC to figure it out. It also worked well integrating with OTA. The OTA mapped as 4.1, 4.2, 4.3 and the cable mapped as 4, 942 and 943. Of course, that is an example of my mapping. YMMV. It also pulled in the low tiered channels like CNN-SD that were delivered in analog cable. I guess that means that the digital equivs were also clear QAM on my system.

 

[HDRoberts]

Ahhh, I thought from the TVFool image that your stations were generally SouthEast and most people's dishes are pointed South-SouthWest (in our area). Thought that could be a problem...

Oops, I did mean to say southeast. And that is where they are.

 

[jayn_j]

Also remember, it is the cableco's responsibility to get this working, so they may be forced to add a cablecard if they are not providing clear QAM on the basic channels.

 

[HDRoberts]

But since you have lifetime service, that means you have the right to obtain the guide data from TIVO. When I first got my Premiere, it took a long time for TWC to figure out the cablecard and tuning adapter. However, I set up my TIVO service as OTA and Cable. I was able to receive alll of the clear QAM signals in the correctly mapped channels for the month it took TWC to figure it out. It also worked well integrating with OTA. The OTA mapped as 4.1, 4.2, 4.3 and the cable mapped as 4, 942 and 943. Of course, that is an example of my mapping. YMMV. It also pulled in the low tiered channels like CNN-SD that were delivered in analog cable. I guess that means that the digital equivs were also clear QAM on my system.

My understanding that with clearQAM, the channel might be placed in some goofy-sounding spot like 117.3. A separate signal, one that requires a cablecard rental, puts 117-3 into it's proper spot, say 1008. Tivo has no idea what is on 117.3, needing the mapping, so without the cablecard, the clearQAM is useless.

 

[jayn_j]

I have heard that, but this is not my experience with TWC in Milwaukee. TIVO seemed to be handling the mapping just fine.

 

[HDRoberts]

Also remember, it is the cableco's responsibility to get this working, so they may be forced to add a cablecard if they are not providing clear QAM on the basic channels.

They have to provide the programming, but I don't think they have to map them to match Tivo guide data for no increase in cost (i.e. cablecard rental)

 

[HDRoberts]

I have heard that, but this is not my experience with TWC in Milwaukee. TIVO seemed to be handling the mapping just fine.

I guess I can try it first, but I'm hedging my bets.

 

[boba]

Everyone is telling you that TiVo will work, I'll tell you the HD 1080 should work. I am picking up a channel 8 broadcast at 61 miles with one mounted on a J mount from a satellite dish. I got mine off Ebay for $28.98 with free shipping, small and good.

 

[Don_M]

HD, you might wish to consider a Channel Master CM-7000PAL DVR if QAM issues with a Tivo box start looking too cumbersome. The upfront cost for a new CM DVR is $325 and up.

As to a still-unanswered question: Antennas are capable of picking up both digital and analog signals. "HDTV antenna" and "Digital-ready" are marketing terms, not technical specifications.

... I'll tell you the HD 1080 should work. I am picking up a channel 8 broadcast at 61 miles with one mounted on a J mount from a satellite dish. ...

Sorry, nope: An HD-1080 isn't a good bet in Cleveland because its VHF gain, in a word, sucks. (It's a reasonable UHF antenna choice in this case, though.) WOIO (RF 10) has an output power of just 10.3 kW and WJW (RF 8) puts out 11 kW, both of which are probably a small fraction of the ERP your VHF stations in Texas radiate. That Great Lakes humidity and the frequent lake-effect snow showers the OP has to contend with don't exactly aid signal propagation, either.

Good alternatives include:

• An HD-1080, Antennas Direct DB2, Channel Master CM 4220 or Eagle Aspen DTV2B UHF antenna coupled with an AntennaCraft Y5-7-13 VHF-high antenna on UVSJ combiner, or

• A single multiband antenna such as the Winegard HD-7694, AntennaCraft HBU-22 or Channel Master CM-2018.

 

[boba]

HD, you might wish to consider a Channel Master CM-7000PAL DVR if QAM issues with a Tivo box start looking too cumbersome. The upfront cost for a new CM DVR is $325 and up.

As to a still-unanswered question: Antennas are capable of picking up both digital and analog signals. "HDTV antenna" and "Digital-ready" are marketing terms, not technical specifications.


Sorry, nope: An HD-1080 isn't a good bet in Cleveland because its VHF gain, in a word, sucks. (It's a reasonable UHF antenna choice in this case, though.) WOIO (RF 10) has an output power of just 10.3 kW and WJW (RF 8) puts out 11 kW, both of which are probably a small fraction of the ERP your VHF stations in Texas radiate. That Great Lakes humidity and the frequent lake-effect snow showers the OP has to contend with don't exactly aid signal propagation, either.

Good alternatives include:

• An HD-1080, Antennas Direct DB2, Channel Master CM 4220 or Eagle Aspen DTV2B UHF antenna coupled with an AntennaCraft Y5-7-13 VHF-high antenna on UVSJ combiner, or

• A single multiband antenna such as the Winegard HD-7694, AntennaCraft HBU-22 or Channel Master CM-2018.

Don you may be right but my TV fool shows Channel 8 is 61.7 miles away and -74.3 PWR HD Roberts TV fool shows his channel 8 is 7.2 miles away with a -28.5 PWR so I still say the HD 1080 will probably work.

 

[jayn_j]

Don you may be right but my TV fool shows Channel 8 is 61.7 miles away and -74.3 PWR HD Roberts TV fool shows his channel 8 is 7.2 miles away with a -28.5 PWR so I still say the HD 1080 will probably work.

Yeah, I was looking at all those signals that say "rabbit ears" and wondering why we were suddenly recommending deep fringe antennas. Don't we like his tuner, and are trying to fry it? Seriously, those fringe antennas with that signal strength is likely to totally swamp the front end.

 

[chum1976]

I would try the HD-1080 first and if it did not work send it back for a larger unit. I purchased the 8-bay bowtie from amazon and had to send it back. As don suggested the snow squalls killed my signal(western pa), so I purchased the 91XG plus a preamp and had no problems. You are lucky to have very strong signals so no preamp is needed and an excellent channel line-up.