Looks like MLB is adding one more playoff team

[Mr Tony]

Well to be fair the same thing happens right now in baseball and all sports. No matter how many games you finish ahead of the other team, you still start the playoffs 0-0. This doesn't change that.

you didnt understand what I meant then. Why give a team that is 5 or 6 games out of the Wildcard race an extra opportunity to be part of the playoffs? For fun I just looked and here are the stats of the last 5 years of GB behind the WC winner and the 2nd place wild card team (this year not included)
2010 AL...6 games
2010 NL..1 game
2009 AL...8 games
2009 NL...5 games
2008 NL...1 game
2008 AL...6 games
2007 AL...6 games
2007 NL...1 game (actually 0 was a playoff to be the WC team)
2006 NL....3 games
2006 AL...6 games

so in most cases you're looking at a team who is 3-6 games behind the wild card team...again Budrick is playing the "Everyone's a winner" theory.If you cant garner enough wins in 162 games ot be the wild card well then you dont belong in the playoffs then

I would be like the NFL saying "OK we're gonna add 2 more teams to the playoffs and no byes"...then you'll see 7-9 or even a 6-10 team make the playoffs???

 

[SandraC]

you didnt understand what I meant then. Why give a team that is 5 or 6 games out of the Wildcard race an extra opportunity to be part of the playoffs? For fun I just looked and here are the stats of the last 5 years of GB behind the WC winner and the 2nd place wild card team (this year not included)
2010 AL...6 games
2010 NL..1 game
2009 AL...8 games
2009 NL...5 games
2008 NL...1 game
2008 AL...6 games
2007 AL...6 games
2007 NL...1 game (actually 0 was a playoff to be the WC team)
2006 NL....3 games
2006 AL...6 games

so in most cases you're looking at a team who is 3-6 games behind the wild card team...again Budrick is playing the "Everyone's a winner" theory.If you cant garner enough wins in 162 games ot be the wild card well then you dont belong in the playoffs then

I would be like the NFL saying "OK we're gonna add 2 more teams to the playoffs and no byes"...then you'll see 7-9 or even a 6-10 team make the playoffs???

I do understand what you are saying...I'm just looking at it differently. As I said, all sports put teams against each other in the playoffs who did not finish equally in the regular season.

Chicago Bears win the NFC North last year, Green Bay finishes second. NO WORRIES! Green Bay had another shot at them in the playoffs, won the game, and won the Super Bowl. That's how we do in the US of A.

Even if you hate soccer you would love what they do in Europe and South America. They play each team twice, home and away, and that's it. The team with the best record is the champion.

In a 20 team league, if you don't earn more points than every other team over 38 games, you don't deserve playoffs to get another shot at them. That fits your criteria perfectly.


Sandra

 

[Mr Tony]

I do understand what you are saying...I'm just looking at it differently. As I said, all sports put teams against each other in the playoffs who did not finish equally in the regular season.

Chicago Bears win the NFC North last year, Green Bay finishes second. NO WORRIES! Green Bay had another shot at them in the playoffs, won the game, and won the Super Bowl. That's how we do in the US of A.

The NFL does the playoffs fine with 6 teams in the playoffs. You dont see them saying "OK Green Bay and NY Giants...you get to play one more game to see which one gets the #6 seed in the playoffs". If you can't win it in the regular season then you dont deserve to be in the playoffs. This would actually go back to a balanced schedule which BudLite doesnt like.

Balanced schedule then you cant say "well the reason we didnt get in is because we had 9 games against __________________ (fill in the blank) and the team that got in had only 6 games against them

Even if you hate soccer you would love what they do in Europe and South America. They play each team twice, home and away, and that's it. The team with the best record is the champion.

In a 20 team league, if you don't earn more points than every other team over 38 games, you don't deserve playoffs to get another shot at them. That fits your criteria perfectly.

If you know I hate soccer why even try and explain it to me how they do it there? Because I really dont care

 

[SandraC]

I think the difference between how you and I are looking at baseball is that you're worried about protecting the first wild card team, who may finish 3-6 games ahead of the second wild card team. I don't really give a crap about the wild card team. They didn't finish in first place...they are owed nothing in my world.

If two wild card teams have to play each other in a one game playoff they will probably use their best pitcher, which will weaken whichever team advances, giving a REAL advantage to the division winner.

And the division winner is the team I care about, NOT the first wild card team. THAT'S where we differ.

If you want to stay out of the one game playoff...WIN THE DIVISION!


Sandra

 

[Mr Tony]

I think the difference between how you and I are looking at baseball is that you're worried about protecting the first wild card team, who may finish 3-6 games ahead of the second wild card team. I don't really give a crap about the wild card team. They didn't finish in first place...they are owed nothing in my world.

while I partially agree with 3 divisions a wild card is a necessity...unless you are giving the team with the best record a bye which wont happen

Also I was a WC hater when it first came out but now with the last few years how it comes down to the end of the season it has made the last couple weeks of MLB worth watching. If we only had division winners heck by the 2nd week of September we would have all the division winners selected and the last 2 weeks would be useless then.

And the division winner is the team I care about, NOT the first wild card team. THAT'S where we differ.

again how ya gonna do the playoffs with 3 teams? Like some lame soccer round robin crap?

Like I say Bud just wants to be the PC police and keep everyone happy.

 

[SandraC]

Also I was a WC hater when it first came out but now with the last few years how it comes down to the end of the season it has made the last couple weeks of MLB worth watching. If we only had division winners heck by the 2nd week of September we would have all the division winners selected and the last 2 weeks would be useless then.

LOL you just explained why American sports have playoffs/wildcard teams, etc.

I'm sure people hated back in the 60's when baseball went away from just having the World Series, and added the League championship series. Then they got used to it. Then people complained when another round was added. Then they got used it. Now people will complain about one more game...and then they'll get used to it.

again how ya gonna do the playoffs with 3 teams? Like some lame soccer round robin crap?

Is that really how you interpreted what I said? A three team round robin for the playoffs?

We should probably just stop this part of the discussion now because what I'm saying, you're not getting...and probably versa vice.


Sandra

 

[Mr Tony]

but if you dont like the WC why do you like them adding another team to the mix?

Is that really how you interpreted what I said?

I dont like soccer so I dont know why you interjected that into the conversation. It would be the same if I talked about how NASCAR does their "playoff"

We should probably just stop this part of the discussion now because what I'm saying, you're not getting...and probably versa vice.

you are more than welcome to stop "discussing" it with me then. I posted my views originally and you commented on it.

 

[SandraC]

but if you dont like the WC why do you like them adding another team to the mix?

I did not say I don't like the wild card.


Sandra

 

[dangue]

Ice,

Let me take a stab at this. Sandra brought up soccer because there are no playoffs in soccer. Each team plays every other team x number of times during the season (usually a multiple of two-home and away) and the team with the most point (a la hockey) wins the league title. No playoffs system like in US sports. Round robin play happens in various tournaments. Sandra proposed that you'd like it best because the winner is the team that performed best during the season. There is no reset for the playoffs where the wildcard is placed on the same footing as the team with the best record. Does that adequately explain your thinking Sandra? Does that clarify things Ice?

As for you comparison to Football Ice, there are six teams from each league in the playoffs while baseball only has four. So I don't see why baseball adding a wildcard compares negatively to football in that regard.

I think a play in game for the two wild card teams is much better than giving the team with the best record some sort of bye.

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[SandraC]

Ice,

Let me take a stab at this. Sandra brought up soccer because there are no playoffs in soccer. Each team plays every other team x number of times during the season (usually a multiple of two-home and away) and the team with the most point (a la hockey) wins the league title. No playoffs system like in US sports. Round robin play happens in various tournaments. Sandra proposed that you'd like it best because the winner is the team that performed best during the season. There is no reset for the playoffs where the wildcard is placed on the same footing as the team with the best record. Does that adequately explain your thinking Sandra? Does that clarify things Ice?

As for you comparison to Football Ice, there are six teams from each league in the playoffs while baseball only has four. So I don't see why baseball adding a wildcard compares negatively to football in that regard.

I think a play in game for the two wild card teams is much better than giving the team with the best record some sort of bye.

LOL THANK YOU DANGUE!!!

You explained it perfectly. Glad you got it...I thought I was in some alternate universe or something!


Sandra

 

[Jimbo]

I think this idea is a TERRIBLE one ....

Very soon, no one will care about the regular season.

You will no longer have divisions to root for.
Everyone of us follow OUR team daily looking to see what they did vs the other teams in the division.

Now they will have the top teams not care about winning a division, all they need to do now is be in the top , what 8 is it now or less, I lost count.

I guess it would be the top 5 in each league.

I REALLY HATE this idea of two 15 team conferences.
I hope the next commish changes it back to divisions quickly, as well as changing the winner of the ASG as the home field for the WS.

The only thing I think BUD has done correctly is the 1 WC. Now he's gonna ruin it by expanding again before he leaves.

 

[Mr Tony]

Does that clarify things Ice?

my head hurts after reading that.....I guess I'll never understand soccer (or what the words to "A horse with no name" mean)

As for you comparison to Football Ice, there are six teams from each league in the playoffs while baseball only has four. So I don't see why baseball adding a wildcard compares negatively to football in that regard.

There are also 4 divisions per conference in the NFL versus 3 in baseball so thats why you need 2 WC teams per conference

I think a play in game for the two wild card teams is much better than giving the team with the best record some sort of bye.

nobody gets a bye in the 1st round in baseball. If the 1st round was maybe a 2 out of 3 then I could see the #1 team get a bye in the 1st round.

 

[dangue]

my head hurts after reading that.....I guess I'll never understand soccer (or what the words to "A horse with no name" mean)

There are also 4 divisions per conference in the NFL versus 3 in baseball so thats why you need 2 WC teams per conference

nobody gets a bye in the 1st round in baseball. If the 1st round was maybe a 2 out of 3 then I could see the #1 team get a bye in the 1st round.

Responses are numbered to reflect which paragraph they refer to:

1) I grew up with soccer, so it isn't hard for me to understand. It really is a beautiful game when played by two dynamic teams. And that's all I'll say about that.

2) The argument could be made that with 4 divisions per conference in football, they could simply do away with WC teams and they'd have the same number of playoff teams as is currently set up in baseball.

Never going to happen, nor do I think they should. But my point being, baseball has 30 teams with only 8 making the post season. NFL has 32 teams with 12 making the post season. I don't see MLB going up to 10 teams with the last two in from each league having to have a play in game problematic on it's face. I'll reserve final judgment until I see it in action.

Compared to NBA and NHL where it seems almost every team has a shot at the post season, MLB has been very restrained in the quantity of playoff teams. Even the NFL regularly fields more playoff teams.

Is it the extra WC team that bothers you or the fact that it's a one game playoff between the two WC teams?

3) I'm saying I think a one game playoff between two WC teams makes more sense to me than going the NFL route and giving higher seeded teams byes. I honestly think that would hurt the higher seeded teams more than work to their advantage. Baseball players need to play every day to stay sharp, a long hiatus would probably do more harm than good (see Rockies vs Red Sox world series for an example of this).

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[SamCdbs]

Awful idea. Dilutes the regular season, what everybody has said.

AND, they are thinking of doing this as a single game. The point of baseball is that it is not football. In football, the single result is the single result. In baseball, the only player that touches the ball on every play alternates daily, and thus the worst team wins 1/3rd of the time and the best team loses 1/3rd of the time. So the results of the "wild card round" are going to be esentually random.

 

[Mr Tony]

Is it the extra WC team that bothers you or the fact that it's a one game playoff between the two WC teams?

like some folks said the extra wild card dilutes the regular season. So what happens if both WC teams are form the same division? Now you've got a 3rd place team in the playoffs. Even if its a one game playoff that 3rd place team still made the playoffs

 

[dangue]

like some folks said the extra wild card dilutes the regular season. So what happens if both WC teams are form the same division? Now you've got a 3rd place team in the playoffs. Even if its a one game playoff that 3rd place team still made the playoffs

So what if a third place team is in the playoffs? That just means that the second place teams in the other divisions had worse years than this third place team. That would seem to speak to an issue of lack of parity among the divisions, but that's that.

This scenario is also possible in the NFL, and no one seems to complain about that. Why are we treating the leagues differently?

 

[dangue]

Awful idea. Dilutes the regular season, what everybody has said.

AND, they are thinking of doing this as a single game. The point of baseball is that it is not football. In football, the single result is the single result. In baseball, the only player that touches the ball on every play alternates daily, and thus the worst team wins 1/3rd of the time and the best team loses 1/3rd of the time. So the results of the "wild card round" are going to be esentually random.

This doesn't dilute the season, quite the opposite, I would argue. It makes finishing first in your division that much more imperative. Otherwise, as you said, you're subject to a wildcard play in game where anything can happen. No team will want to stake their playoff hopes on what is essentially a one game playoff, so they'll strive for as long as possible to win the division rather than being satisfied with getting in as a wildcard (which doesn't currently have much of a penalty).

 

[Jimbo]

This doesn't dilute the season, quite the opposite, I would argue. It makes finishing first in your division that much more imperative. Otherwise, as you said, you're subject to a wildcard play in game where anything can happen. No team will want to stake their playoff hopes on what is essentially a one game playoff, so they'll strive for as long as possible to win the division rather than being satisfied with getting in as a wildcard (which doesn't currently have much of a penalty).

Problem here is the WC teams have a HUGE disadvantage over the division winner as the WC teams would ahve to use thier ACE to get to the next round and the Winning team would never match up with the Division winners with thier 2 or 3 going against the others Ace.

 

[dangue]

Problem here is the WC teams have a HUGE disadvantage over the division winner as the WC teams would ahve to use thier ACE to get to the next round and the Winning team would never match up with the Division winners with thier 2 or 3 going against the others Ace.

Exactly, this makes winning the division critical to odds of success deep into the playoffs, making the division races relevant and not diluting the importance of winning in the regular season.

 

[Jimbo]

Exactly, this makes winning the division critical to odds of success deep into the playoffs, making the division races relevant and not diluting the importance of winning in the regular season.

That same type of thing has happened occasionally when there bhas been a Tie at the end of they year, now they are making that tie mandatory for a 1 game playoff, which I always thought was stupid in the first place, always rushed played the next day , home field decided by a coin flip instead of best head to head record.

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