outdoor antenna help

DinoDaddy · Apr 21, 2015

I live in a fringe area, where I am between 35-60 miles from the towers and have a lot of trees (mostly large oaks) around my home. I was using an old ChannelMaster antenna on a mast about 15 ft or so high and was having decent luck with it until the wind broke the mast (which was cracked and rusted, my fault I know) and blew it over and broke it in half. But before it broke, it was missing almost all the elements on one side of it, but still doing a decent job.

The problem for me is getting one mounted high enough. I have a mount on the roof from a previous Dish satellite and tried to mount the old CM there, but gave up pretty quick because it was large and awkward to handle, plus my roof has a pretty steep pitch. I was looking at the Antennas Direct Clearstream 2V and it looks like it could be mounted on the satellite mount. Have any of you guys done that or know that it can be done fairly easily? Any thoughts as to that particular antenna? It seems to have pretty good reviews.

Just wanted to get some opinions. Thanks in advance.

Mr Tony · Apr 21, 2015

can you please post your tvfool report?

www.tvfool.com

without that its real hard to give any good advice.

spongella · Apr 22, 2015

Iceberg is right, get the list from TVfool first, that'll give you and idea of what channels you can get along with other pertinent info.

Yes, you can mount a TV antenna on an old satellite mount, here is a picture of an OTA antenna I bought, mounted on the side of the house, exactly where my DirectTV dish was. I wanted to see, before doing a roof installation, how the antenna would work at that spot. Since my location is 280 feet above sea level it worked reasonably well for a start. My location is equidistant from NYC and Philadelphia, about 50 miles from each city.

After a few months of using it at a low height I moved the antenna to the roof, and got better results at a height of 22 feet. This antenna comes with a rotor and pretty good preamp so now I get around 60 channels.

Before I mounted the antenna outside, even tried it in the house mounted on a tripod. It worked well enough for me to pursue moving it outside, then up to the roof.

Digital TV seems to have a bit of voodoo built into it, you might have to try different spots to see which gives you the best results. I am in a fringe area so a rotatable antenna and a preamp are a must.

Hope this helps, and good luck with your installation.

boba · Apr 22, 2015

35-60 miles isn't really fringe reception any more. It is surprising how well the digital signals can be received, depending on what channels are being used a small UHF antenna may get great results. That is one of the needs for a tvfool report.

Mr Tony · Apr 22, 2015

boba said:
35-60 miles isn't really fringe reception any more. It is surprising how well the digital signals can be received, depending on what channels are being used a small UHF antenna may get great results. That is one of the needs for a tvfool report.

it depends on terrain though. 60 miles on flat land is a lot better than 20 miles of rugged terrain

spongella · Apr 22, 2015

Seasons also affect the signals - when the trees have leaves on'em, my signals for distant stations go way down, and pixielate, or go black. Come autumn, not a problem.

. Raine · Apr 22, 2015

I have the same thing as Spongella with channels out of Massachusetts, in the winter they come in good, once the leaves come onto the trees, not so good.

Like someone mentioned above, OTA has a bit of voodoo magic to it now, higher isn't always better and a few feet in any direction can make a difference. I initially had my antenna about 20-25' up on a pole in the yard and it worked okay. Moved it onto my house about six feet above the roof line, 15'-20' away from the previous location, pretty much the same height, worked like crap. Temporarily raised it higher and it was worse, I lowered it to about a foot above the roof line and it works great, go figure.

In my yard you can find spots where channels come in great, but move a few feet over and it's lousy.

larrykenney · Apr 23, 2015

Since we get signals from several directions I installed my antenna with a rotor and had decent success, but found I had two problems. The buffeting wind we get here snapped the rotor and had to be replaced twice, and, as others have mentioned, different heights work better for different stations. So to solve my problems I put up four antennas, each pointed in a different direction for the stations I wanted to receive. One for the stations 65 miles away is 35 feet above ground, others are lower, and one is almost resting on the roof, but that's where I got the best signal. As the others have said, you might want to experiment with different locations and different heights to find those sweet spots.

spongella · Apr 23, 2015

Installing an OTA antenna is sorta' like a satellite dish - sometimes a few feet away makes the difference. What also complicates the matter is the fact that the TV set is the ultimate arbiter of what you'll see - if the signal level does not meet its threshold then you are going to have problems. Unlike the old analog signals, you'd at least see a fuzzy/snowy picture at the minimum.

The idea of installing four different antennas in four different directions is very ingenious, thanks for that idea.

DinoDaddy · Apr 23, 2015

Thanks for all your replies. I tried to post my TVFool report but it kept saying I couldn't post it because the message contained what appeared to be spam. I guess I was doing something wrong.

That said, TVFool does say that it doesn't take into account the terrain and obstacles such as trees, which is my main problem. According to my report, the closest tower is 26.4 miles (which I have never been able to pick up) and the farthest is 60 miles (some are father, but theose are the ones I'm most interested in receiving). Three channels are VHF-Hi, the rest are UHF. The majority of the towers are to the north. The house faces the south, with trees in the yard, but I can shoot the gap between them. There is a large oak behind the house making it difficult to aim north. I know the seasons make a difference, especially in spring/summer with full foilage on the trees. The old CM I had was about 15 ft. or so high, pointed S/SE. It wasn't high enough to clear the side of the house, so that definitely affected any signals coming from the west. However I was able to pick up fairly well, pulling in from a station 60 miles away, as well as picking up some of the northern signals. Of course weather and the seasons did affect the strength/range.

If I had to estimate, at the top of the roof line where the old satellite mount is, it's about 30 ft. or so high. The oak tree behind it would pose a possible problem. I want to use the same cabling that was installed with the satellite ( which is how I was using the old CM). It's on the eastern side of the house, and there is a large oak on the western side of the house. I do not want to have to run new cables or drill new holes if I can help it (which may prevent the use of a preamp). Is it possible to use a preamp without having to run a new cable/power supply into the house?

I am looking at the Antennas Direct Clearstream 2V (because it has ability to pick up VHF) and it seems like it would be the easiest/less awkward to install on the existing satellite mount. I'm sure I could get better gain and range from a larger antenna (I've also looked at AntennaCraft C490, HBU33 and HBU55) but I think it would be a chore to get it high enough to be most effective. I've even looked at the Mohu Leaf Ultimate with the inline amp, I could put it in the south facing window next to the tv. I'm sure it wouldn't be as effective, but maybe it would be better than the amplified rabbit ears I'm currently using.

I hope I have provided some useful information for your further opinions and suggestions. I'll try again to post the TVFool report, but if I can provide any further info related to the report such as signal strength and azimuth, let me know. I am a novice at this, having had satellite for so long, so I really appreciate all your help.

boba · Apr 23, 2015

Post your ZIP CODE we can then get a generic TVFOOL to get a better Idea of what your conditions are.

You state the majority of desired channels are to the north and the old Channel Master was aimed SSE. That could be part of your reception problem.

. Raine · Apr 23, 2015

The software of this site won't let you post up links to anything or pictures until you've actually made 10 posts, If I remember correctly. You have six right now, so that's probably why it's giving you the message about spam when you try to post up the TV Fool report.

if you do like Boba suggested and post your zip code, then one of us can post up the report for you from the zip which is usually pretty close to what the actual location is in conditions.

You're right about terrain and TV Fool, it doesn't really account for that. In my location, TV Fool shows that I'm just about sitting on the Providence stations and should have no problem receiving them, but I don't even get a blip from them because of a big hill between me and Providence. But, the TV Fool report is still very helpful in lots of different ways and a lot of times members are familiar with whatever area is being checked out and know the terrain and all the little idiosyncrasies of the area.

You can get a pre-amp that doesn't need a separate power wire, many run the power through the same coax that is used for the signal. I myself use a Winegard AP8275, 29 db VHF, 28 db UHF, which is powered this way. A great amp, unfortunately they've been discontinued now.

I also have a Channel Master CM7777 that's 30 db gain VHF and UHF, but the one I received was DOA and I had to fix it, I've seen numerous reviews of others saying the same too, so, even though it works well, I wouldn't recommended that one at all. Actually would need to see your TV Fool report first really, to tell what you may need for a pre-amp, but in answer to your amp question, many amps run the power right up the same coax used for the signal, so no extra wires are needed to be run outside.

user3162 · Apr 24, 2015

larrykenney said:
Since we get signals from several directions I installed my antenna with a rotor and had decent success, but found I had two problems. The buffeting wind we get here snapped the rotor and had to be replaced twice, and, as others have mentioned, different heights work better for different stations. So to solve my problems I put up four antennas, each pointed in a different direction for the stations I wanted to receive. One for the stations 65 miles away is 35 feet above ground, others are lower, and one is almost resting on the roof, but that's where I got the best signal. As the others have said, you might want to experiment with different locations and different heights to find those sweet spots.

In my DMA, the nets are in different towns. I put up a Winegard HD8200U which enabled me to get all my nets from Philly, without having to turn the antenna. Unfortunately, I can't watch my favorite local channel with the antenna pointed in that direction. I would really like to be able to watch that channel without having to use the rotor. The channel has a strong signal, I could easily put an antenna in the attic, if I could figure out how to use two antennas. I only have one TV or I'd just use one for that channel. How do you do it?

primestar31 · Apr 24, 2015

You know those 2-way splitters, so you can hook up TWO tv sets to one antenna?

Yeah, they also work backwards! Which means you can hook two ANTENNAS up, to funnel to a single tv set...

danristheman · Apr 24, 2015

Prime don't you have to sperate the antennas if you combine two together in one splitter?

primestar31 · Apr 24, 2015

danristheman said:
Prime don't you have to sperate the antennas if you combine two together in one splitter?

If they are on the same mast pipe, yes. Separate them by about 3 feet. However, hooking up two antennas to the same tv through a reverse splitter is magic in the first place, so can work differently for every single install. You can't know how or if, or what to change, until you try it yourself with what you have.

larrykenney · Apr 25, 2015

I found that when using a splitter backward I got most of the signals from the two antennas, but they were all coming in at a lower level than when using one antenna at a time, and a couple of stations were really low. The signals from the two antennas were out of phase, I suspect, so I got poor results. With four antennas I had a real mess.

I solved the problem by getting 3 A-B RF switches. Two antennas go into one switch and the other two antennas go into a second switch, then the output of the two switches are put into a third switch. You select the antenna you want to use, then select that switch on the third switch. It works great and there's little, if any, signal loss through the switches.

If you'd like to check out my antennas, go to: http://www.larrykenney.com/tvantennas.html

user3162 · Apr 25, 2015

Thank you both! But, I found a simple solution. I just wanted the one local channel to get the news and weather, don't need to record it, so I can run the simple antenna to the TV and keep the roof antenna on the TiVo. I might try connecting the two, see how it works.

boba · Apr 25, 2015

DinoDaddy said:
I live in a fringe area, where I am between 35-60 miles from the towers and have a lot of trees (mostly large oaks) around my home. I was using an old ChannelMaster antenna on a mast about 15 ft or so high and was having decent luck with it until the wind broke the mast (which was cracked and rusted, my fault I know) and blew it over and broke it in half. But before it broke, it was missing almost all the elements on one side of it, but still doing a decent job.

The problem for me is getting one mounted high enough. I have a mount on the roof from a previous Dish satellite and tried to mount the old CM there, but gave up pretty quick because it was large and awkward to handle, plus my roof has a pretty steep pitch. I was looking at the Antennas Direct Clearstream 2V and it looks like it could be mounted on the satellite mount. Have any of you guys done that or know that it can be done fairly easily? Any thoughts as to that particular antenna? It seems to have pretty good reviews.

Just wanted to get some opinions. Thanks in advance.

Has DinoDaddy ever completed his information so we can give him some help?

DinoDaddy · Apr 25, 2015

Finally! I was able to post my TVFool report!

Boba, you said having the old CM pointed SSE might be my problem picking up channels from the north, however when I had it pointed north, I was picking up less channels. The trees are a problem pointing it north. I was picking up some the channels out of Charlotte with it pointed SSE. This area is considered the Charlotte, NC DMA, but I can get most of the Columbia, SC stations.

Thanks to A Raine for info about the preamp. If I have to have one, I'll look for one that runs the power through the same coax as the signal.

Hope this gives you guys the info needed to give me some good advice.

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