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#2 - No, my local ABC and CBS currently transmit (3) channels: (1) analog (SD), (1) digital (SD), and (1) digital (HD). On the ABC station, they show the same programming on all (3).

hall said:

#2 - No, my local ABC and CBS currently transmit (3) channels: (1) analog (SD), (1) digital (SD), and (1) digital (HD). On the ABC station, they show the same programming on all (3).

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No. You are confusing channels with subchannels (multicasting). Let me use my local station KTLA (which is also a superstation) as an example. KTLA started broadcasting the standard NTSC analog signal in the late 1940's on channel 5. It is still doing so, and will continue to do so until next February. With the advent of digital television, KTLA was one of the earliest adopters of digital. They were allocated channel 31 to use to broadcast their digital signal. Channel 5 and channel 31 are two separate channels. The digital signal on channel 31 has (at the moment) two subchannels labeled 5.1 and 5.5. (In the past their were three subchannels in use on channel 31). KTLA has chosen to put the same shows on their analog channel (5) and the first subchannel on their digital channel (channel 31 subchannel 5.1). If a program is available in HD, it appears in HD on channel 31 and in SD of course on channel 5. I do not know what Dish is doing today, but as recently as last December I know that KTLA on LA locals came from the analog feed.

When your digital TV or your Dish receiver with an OTA tuner search for stations, they find the actual digital channel with all its subchannels. They display the subchannel ID's. The fact that the actual channel (31 in KTLA's case) differs from the analog channel number (5 in KTLA's case) is deliberately hidden so as not to confuse the TV-watching public. KTLA is known as channel 5 and has been for not quite 60 years. They would never want to call themselves channel 31, even though that is what they actually are (for digital).

A similar story holds for all stations presently broadcasting both analog and digital. Come next February, there will be no analog broadcasts. Stations presently broadcasting analog will either lose that channel all together, or they will lose their digital channel allocation and switch their old analog channel to digital broadcasts. Both possibilities will take place. But no station will be allowed to keep two channels. I am confident that the channel number the public is used to will remain in their names and be displayed on TV's or tuners.

Stations can have as many subchannels displaying whatever HD or SD content they like, as long as their bandwidth allocation is not exceeded. As of a year ago it was technically possible to have two subchannels, both HD (compressed). Or one subchannel HD and two SD. Or no HD and five SD subchannels. The only constant is the total bandwidth of a channel.

Getting back to KTLA and Dish. At least as recently as last December, when I tested, Dish was giving local channel subscribers in LA the KTLA analog feed, digitized and compressed for satellite transmission. Obviously Dish would not want to keep doing this indefinitely. A direct digital feed is much cleaner and analog feeds are slated to go away. But there are problems, which is why I initiated this thread in the first place. Until next February no station is required to maintain any standards for their digital channel as far as signal strength or availability, because the FCC considers digital television to be in test mode until then. Digital channels can be shut off or weakened at will, and KTLA actually did this from the time ever since they began digital broadcasting on channel 31, up until this past December at least. They would stop (or at least weaken the signal) digital broadcasting for hours or even days at a time, sometimes accidentally and sometimes on purpose for testing.

Apparently, from following this thread, most people have not experienced similar problems and in fact are already getting digital feeds from Dish for their locals. That is great. But the fact remains that, without major upgrades, getting HD from Dish on independent locals is not in the cards. It is my belief that most consumers do not understand this. They think "digital = HD" and will expect (if they subscribe to locals) to see gorgeous HD on every local channel Dish sends them.

I hope that will be true someday, which is why I started what I thought would be a short and sweet thread---one question and two or three answers. I would love to know what Dish plans in this area and on what schedule. I am smart enough to know that it cannot be true as early as this coming February. I am even wondering if some markets will lose some locals all together (via Dish) temporarily.

This question is important to me because I live in a big market with lots of stations, many of which have interesting programming. But because of my location, I do not get acceptable signal for most of them OTA.

The must carry regulations still apply and will next year. the problem is taht ifa stationc annot get their main digital signal to the E* or Dd* head end in that market yhrn the satellite carrier will not be required to carry them.

Will there be ANY disruptions? probably. but it is hard for any of us to say what specific channels might be dropped. We do not know which channels The carriers ae picking up digitally now and we cannot even be uste if the carriers are getting a fiber feed or an OTA one.


B ut be aware that in Feb of 2008 these stations will be broadcasting digitally but not necessarily in HD. Many of the independents in particualr will have a lot of SD programming so the tax on bandwidth may not be as great as you think.

denisincalif said:

...This question is important to me because I live in a big market with lots of stations, many of which have interesting programming. But because of my location, I do not get acceptable signal for most of them OTA.

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Here's a somewhat related article, FCC Yields To DirecTV, Dish On HD Carriage - 3/19/2008 6:40:00 PM - Multichannel News...

8bitbytes said:

Here's a somewhat related article, FCC Yields To DirecTV, Dish On HD Carriage - 3/19/2008 6:40:00 PM - Multichannel News...

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Thanks!!!

That article is very informative, disappointing, but not surprising. Given today's satellite situation it is obviously impossible to have DirectTV and Dish carry all the locals in HD by next year, even if somebody handed each company a trillion dollars. I started this thread because I wondered how long it would take. The article says "by 2013". As a realist I doubt that it will even happen that soon. But at least I know the pressure is on for D* and E* to comply.

Geronimo said:

The must carry regulations still apply and will next year. the problem is taht ifa stationc annot get their main digital signal to the E* or Dd* head end in that market yhrn the satellite carrier will not be required to carry them.

Will there be ANY disruptions? probably. but it is hard for any of us to say what specific channels might be dropped. We do not know which channels The carriers ae picking up digitally now and we cannot even be uste if the carriers are getting a fiber feed or an OTA one.


But be aware that in Feb of 2008 these stations will be broadcasting digitally but not necessarily in HD. Many of the independents in particualr will have a lot of SD programming so the tax on bandwidth may not be as great as you think.

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I know. HD is expensive and stations will be slow to adopt it until viewers demand it (still years away). But, unfortunately for me, there are two LA independents which have lots of HD programming already. KTLA is a WB station (I forget the new network's name). And KCAL-9 is owned by CBS. As a former independent it does not broadcast CBS shows (we have channel 2 for that). But they broadcast all their news in HD and their reporters are all gorgeous! Also, many PBS stations have lots of HD but Dish considers PBS stations to be locals. In fact, the Orange County PBS station (KOCE channel 50) broadcasts HD almost exclusively.

denisincalif said:

But they broadcast all their news in HD and their reporters are all gorgeous!

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Aha! Now we get to the root of the question.....