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meldar_b
meldar_b
Last reply · posted in Over the Air Television By RabbitEars.Info

Long TV cable run up to mountain top

Hi Guys :wave

I live in southeastern Kentucky and in this area KY it is a very hilly/mountainous part of the state. I can't get any OTA signal when I try to use an rooftop antenna:eek: Back in the day in the 1950's-70's before cable and satellite TV people would run ladder lines and a TV antenna to the mountain peaks to get the TV signals and they could receive OTA signals from Huntington/Charleston WV stations which is around 50-70 miles away (through the air), Hazard (30 miles) and Johnson City Tenn (80 miles) by using this simple OTA setup.

I need to know what all equipment and materials that I will need to run a OTA to the top of a hill behind my house up the side of the mountain so I can get OTA and HDTV from my local stations from Huntington/Charleston WV the channels are WSAZ 3 (NBC), WCHS 8(ABC), WVAH 11(FOX), WOWK 13(CBS), WQCW 30(CW) WPBY 33(PBS) and my local KY stations from Hazard KY WYMT 57 (CBS), Pikeville WKPI 22 (PBS/KET) and maybe a few more from Tennessee. I like to know what type of cable (coax or ladder), amplifiers and How to power the amps up the hill and TV antenna's. I know that I will need to make about a 2500 foot cable run and a couple of long distance Yagi antenna's as cheap as possible.

I currently have cable TV through my local cable co. "Internmountain cable" www.imctv.com (and they suck) I was thinking about going back to DirecTV. But instead of getting the highly compressed locals also my local HD stations are not offered for my DMA yet, So I'm looking to make a investment in an OTA system for full uncompressed network TV signals. This will be a long building process for me to get done. I will need to win the lottery first I believe :rolleyes: Please be a sport and give me some helpfully info on how to do this or how about some info of a company or person in my area that might be able to help in this build If and when I decide to do this.

Then again with all the copper theft going on around here this might be a bad idea,

Thanks ;)
Darrell B
aka
meldar_b
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D
dish_in_the_sky
This is possible, but expensive.

Use RG-11 cable, 1 CM-7777 preamp (2-2.7 dB NF) ~$60 at the antenna, and 5 MCM Electronics 5-950 MHz 10 dB (4 dB NF) ~$15 ea. in-line amps (DC passive) every 400 feet down the line. You might get 800' from the CM7777 to the 1st line amp.

You'll need ~15V at ~1A fed into the line (probably a high guess) to run all of the amps. A solar array (expensive) could be used to feed power at the antenna end, otherwise send it in from the house.

Get out your checkbook. The coax will be the most expensive part, I think.
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R
roashru
dish_in_the_sky said:
Use RG-11 cable, 1 CM-7777 preamp (2-2.7 dB NF) ~$60 at the antenna, and 5 MCM Electronics 5-950 MHz 10 dB (4 dB NF) ~$15 ea. in-line amps (DC passive) every 400 feet down the line. You might get 800' from the CM7777 to the 1st line amp.

You'll need ~15V at ~1A fed into the line (probably a high guess) to run all of the amps. A solar array (expensive) could be used to feed power at the antenna end, otherwise send it in from the house.

Get out your checkbook. The coax will be the most expensive part, I think.
Click to expand...

WHAT IS THAT. all of that coax cut crimped and jointed will loose way too much signal.

The less coax is cut the better and MUST be grounded at each end.
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A
AntAltMike
RG-11 won't work because the voltage drop over the lengths involved is too great. Also, there is a problem called excessive "Intermodulation Distortion" that develops with multiple amplifiers if their application is not well engineered.

I don't have any cable loss charts handy as I type this, but I think 1/2" hardline (which cost less than .750 and is easier for you to work with) loses about 2.2 dB per 100 feet at 700 MHz, which is the highest, post transition frequency, so you could sustain your input level over 2,500 feet with two 30dB gain cable TV amplifiers, but they use 60 volt AV power inserters, so at the antenna end of the cable, you'd have to make up something to convert 60VAC to roughly 15-18 VDC to power the preamp.

Other problems are that the signals coming off the antenna will be at different power levels and may be coming from different directions. Dealing with those complications is requires technical expertise that most people do not have.
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nsaspook
nsaspook
AntAltMike said:
RG-11 won't work because the voltage drop over the lengths involved is too great. Also, there is a problem called excessive "Intermodulation Distortion" that develops with multiple amplifiers if their application is not well engineered.

I don't have any cable loss charts handy as I type this, but I think 1/2" hardline (which cost less than .750 and is easier for you to work with) loses about 2.2 dB per 100 feet at 700 MHz, which is the highest, post transition frequency, so you could sustain your input level over 2,500 feet with two 30dB gain cable TV amplifiers, but they use 60 volt AV power inserters, so at the antenna end of the cable, you'd have to make up something to convert 60VAC to roughly 15-18 VDC to power the preamp.

Other problems are that the signals coming off the antenna will be at different power levels and may be coming from different directions. Dealing with those complications is requires technical expertise that most people do not have.
Click to expand...

Just skip the cable and use a version of the passive reflector. Passive TV Repeater

log-periodic-digTV-in-wales-050329.jpg
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truckracer
truckracer
the ladder wire would be best. A balanced transmission line is always less of a loss than unbalanced (coax).

You need need a couple of good low noise high gain amps, I would recommend a quad stack of UHF antennas on a heavy mast or small tower material.

You get 4 identical Uhf yagi antennas (high gain models) and put them 1 wavelength apart.

You cut four identical lengths of coax and run each antenna into a 4 way splitter (splitter running backwards). connect the splitter to an antenna amplifier (low noise).

Use a balun to convert the 75 ohm to 450 ohm on the ladder wire.

You will need to run a cable to power your amplifiers. 120V from the house. Probably small gauge since the amps just use a few watts.

You will have a little bit of money tied up on it but you will have good reliable reception when all is done.

be sure there are no rotton tree limbs hanging over your transmission wires.

Some of these guys on here can tell you how to better stack uhf antennas to increase gain.
Our local cable company does it at their headend.
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D
dish_in_the_sky
Revisiting the coax

I believe our friend was right when he bailed on this idea. It's solvable, but not easily and not cheaply.

Ladder line: How do you control losses when the spacers get wet in the rain?

About any line used, but especially coax: Animals may chew on it!

It seems I didn't review the coax problem in sufficient detail. Here goes:

Belden 1859A has 3.1 ohms/1000 ft R on the center conductor and 0.7 ohms/1000 ft on the shield (1/4 ohms, 2 parallel.) For the total run, it's 9.5 ohms for a loop through both conductors. 4.75 ohms if power is fed from both ends. This is not prohibitive.

Loss at 73 MHz is 1.3 dB/100 ft, ~3.7 dB at 400 MHz and 5.6 dB at 720 MHz. So a 10 dB (700 MHz)-2dB (50 MHz) sloped-gain line amp every 200 ft would be required, with the run from the CM7777 being 400 feet to the 1st line amp. Some power would be required at both ends, fortunately these amps don't pull that much current.

Total loss at 720 MHz would be 140 dB. The way to reduce IMD is to limit signal strength. Filtering out the VHF/FM and cell phone, (and higher) frequencies may be required, and sloped-gain amps must be used, say 2 dB on 50 MHz to 10 dB at high UHF (700 MHz.)

I advised lower-gain amps spaced closer because then S/N ratio will be at its best, and overload potential minimized.

The gain structure is set up to maintain the antenna level at the input t o each amp. This will work well unless the signals are too weak at the antenna without a preamp. In such a case, 2 CM7777s can be used at the antenna, but beware of overload. (Overload is a potential concern with any preamp or line amp) If the signals are strong enough at the antenna, the CM 7777 and other amps could be moved down the line to attenuate them.

So:

ant-CM7777-400 ft 1st amp-600 ft 2nd amp-800 ft 3rd amp-1000 ft 4th amp-1200 ft 5th amp-1400 ft 6th amp-1600 ft 7th amp-1800 ft 8th amp-2000 ft 9th amp-2200 ft 10th amp-2400 ft 11th amp-100 ft run to house.

Signal at the house is 1-5 dB lower than at the antenna, with almost as good a S/N ratio. Another line amp could be used at the house, which might help with weak signals overriding the tuner noisse in some cases.

Unless the CM7777 overloads, I'd filter just after it, with as little insertion loss in the passband as possible.

Power at the antenna would be supplied by a small solar array, probably 5-10 Watts required, and an appropriate battery for nighttime.cloudy weather.

This is quite expensive!
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Scott Greczkowski
Scott Greczkowski
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Song Name Game Part 3!

Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne


Get it?


An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....
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I Can Hear Music - The Beach Boys
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Boom Boom ( Out Go The Lights ) - Pat Travers
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sdfntx
sdfntx
Palisades Park - Freddy "Boom Boom" Cannon
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RaiderPower
Cherry Hill Park - Billy Joe Royal
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long_time_Dish
long_time_Dish
Lakeside Park - Rush
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Bruce
Bruce
Supporting Founder Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in Internet Television (IPTV) Discussion Forum

How things have changed

I was reading this article

thehill.com

Cable TV ‘cord-cutters’ became the majority in 2022

The steady decline of cable and broadcast television, and the rise of streaming services, reached a sort of inflection point over the past year. Last summer, for the first time, streaming ser…
thehill.com thehill.com

That said this-
Last summer, for the first time, streaming services like Netflix and Amazon Prime claimed the largest share of the television viewing audience, surpassing both cable and broadcast TV. Streaming captured 34.8 percent of July viewers, according to Nielsen data, compared to 34.4 percent for cable and 21.6 percent for broadcast.

And then, sometime in the second half of 2022, cord-cutters became the majority. The share of cable and satellite television subscribers dipped to 48 percent, according to a report from Samba TV, a television technology company.

Now I do not consider those with YTTV and the likes, Cord Cutters, but they still do not have Traditional Cable/Satellite delivered Live TV, so I decided to do the math.

There are, now, 129 Million Households in the United States.

In 2015, there were 100 Million Cable/Sat Subscribers , no streaming Live TV Service.

Today, there are 66 Million Live TV subscribers, including Cable, Satellite and Streaming.

Roughly, Streaming Live TV has 14 Million subs including all of them.

So that means, Cable/Satellite now has, roughly, 51 Million Households

So in just 8 years, lost 49% of their subscribers and by the end of this year, expected sub count to be, roughly, 45 million households.

That means a total loss of 55% since 2015 at the end of 2023.

But out of 129 Million households, 45 million will mean only 35% will get Cable/Satellite Delivered Live TV by the end of 2023.

Imagine what 2024 will be like.
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Bruce
Bruce
And again, 15 months in a row, streaming wins-

Cable and Broadcast added together-36.4%

Streaming with a massive 49.6%, 13.2% higher than Broadcast/Streaming.

IMG_2172.webp
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Jimbo
Jimbo
Bruce said:
And again, 15 months in a row, streaming wins-

Cable and Broadcast added together-36.4%

Streaming with a massive 49.6%, 13.2% higher than Broadcast/Streaming.

View attachment 194983
Click to expand...
Your Still Thrilled about all this ?

These numbers will Never be accurate as many people use Both still ...

You have services like Hulu Live and You Tube TV that do, what you call Cable, but they ARE Streaming, so Which is is ?

Does it get counted 2x as both Streaming and Cable ?
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S
savarese04
Jimbo said:
Your Still Thrilled about all this ?

These numbers will Never be accurate as many people use Both still ...
Click to expand...
Nobody is "happy" or "sad" about this. Simply posting data in an non-editorialized way has nothing to do with anyone's feelings.

The data on the streaming side is immensely accurate, I'm guessing to the millisecond. Plus most people likely have not turned off data sharing and thus they are grabbing a huge swath of data. Much more accurate than cable which relies on a smaller sample size and probably not to the second.

In either case, nobody is getting "double counted" because it's usage based. If I watch 100 minutes of content and 30 minutes is on Youtube and 20 minutes on Disney and 50 minutes on YTTV, it's going to show up as 30%, 20%, 50% slices of my personal pie respectively.
Jimbo said:
Q.
Who does the Counting for Streaming ?

Neilson does the Broadcast/Cable ...
Click to expand...
Nielsen does. If you go into the settings of any of your streaming accounts, you can turn off the option to share to usage data with their third party measuring service - Nielsen.
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Jimbo
Jimbo
savarese04 said:
Nobody is "happy" or "sad" about this. Simply posting data in an non-editorialized way has nothing to do with anyone's feelings.

The data on the streaming side is immensely accurate, I'm guessing to the millisecond. Plus most people likely have not turned off data sharing and thus they are grabbing a huge swath of data. Much more accurate than cable which relies on a smaller sample size and probably not to the second.

In either case, nobody is getting "double counted" because it's usage based. If I watch 100 minutes of content and 30 minutes is on Youtube and 20 minutes on Disney and 50 minutes on YTTV, it's going to show up as 30%, 20%, 50% slices of my personal pie respectively.

Nielsen does. If you go into the settings of any of your streaming accounts, you can turn off the option to share to usage data with their third party measuring service - Nielsen.
Click to expand...
I have turned some off, not others ...
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Jimbo
dishstaller
dishstaller
Jimbo said:

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/u4rACh-Tt5k?feature=share
Click to expand...

Funny thing is that as the screen size and pic quality increase, the quality of the programming has DEcreased.
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MikeD-C05
dishdude
dishdude
MikeD-C05 said:
skipped the OLED Tv entirely?
Click to expand...

AI slop
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dishstaller
dishstaller
Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

Claude's site is still up and running. New link required

I figured some of the guys would be looking here for an answer. You'll need to use this link

DishRetailer

America's Oldest Satellite Forum!
satelliteretailer.com satelliteretailer.com

I'll mention what happened over there. I don't want to cause Scott any issues or put him in a bad spot.
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dishstaller
dishstaller
If any of you know some of the guys from the board and you have their contact info, please reach out to them....many failed to update their contact info and some even had starband email addresses.
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Scott Greczkowski
Scott Greczkowski
dishstaller said:
I figured some of the guys would be looking here for an answer. You'll need to use this link

DishRetailer

America's Oldest Satellite Forum!
satelliteretailer.com satelliteretailer.com

I'll mention what happened over there. I don't want to cause Scott any issues or put him in a bad spot.
Click to expand...
Now I have to go check out what happened now. Lol!
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Scott Greczkowski
Scott Greczkowski
Went and looked, not too bad...

Just let people know the address is satelliteretailer.com as DishRetailer.COM is not working. :)
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osu1991
osu1991
Pub Member / Supporter
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club

USA Healthcare Costs are Ridiculous

:mad::mad::mad::mad:

Pissed off at the crappy healthcare costs

My health Insurance renewal for 2027 just came in. Going from $827 a month to $1,187 a month. Deductible going up a $1k to $9,350. Max out of pocket also going up $1k to $11,000. Doctor co-pay of $40. Urgent Care co-pay $50. ER 50% coinsurance after deductible. That's all in network. Out of network is double, should it be needed.

Have to think about this. I'm really tempted to just go without now. I only go to the doctor once or twice a year. I pay out of pocket for Tirzepitide and can do without the Rosuvastatin (crestor) now. Really tired of spending over $10k a year and getting nothing out of it.

After years with Blue Cross I switched last year to Ambetter as my Blue Cross premium was going from $1200 to $1800 for a Silver plan and the Bronze plan was still going to be $1300 at BCBS. Ambetter was $827 for the same coverage with a Bronze plan. Didn't think it would jump this much so soon.

I'm guessing a Silver plan is probably over $2,000 a month for 2027.
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b4pjoe
b4pjoe
osu1991 said:
Pissed off at the crappy healthcare costs
Click to expand...
Are you employed with no work insurance or that is what you are paying for your workplace insurance? Or is that through Healthcare.gov? Retired? Eligible for medicare?
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vazhog
vazhog
that cut is only for illegals to get off the rolls and I was being sarcastic before -
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osu1991
osu1991
b4pjoe said:
Are you employed with no work insurance or that is what you are paying for your workplace insurance? Or is that through Healthcare.gov? Retired? Eligible for medicare?
Click to expand...
Started my own business in 2006, been self employed for 20 years this year.
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meStevo
meStevo
vazhog said:
that cut is only for illegals to get off the rolls and I was being sarcastic before -
Click to expand...

Even sarcastically it's wrong. Undocumented immigrants already weren't eligible for federal Medicaid, so there's no one to "get off the rolls." The immigrant-related pieces are a small part of the ~$1 trillion. They cut the federal match for emergency care from 90% to the state's regular rate and end eligibility for some lawful immigrants like refugees. Most of the "savings" come from work requirements, more frequent eligibility checks, and provider tax limits, which hit citizens.

Either way, the cost doesn't disappear. It shifts to states, hospitals, and everyone else's premiums and will only serve to make issues like those raised in this thread worse.
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dishstaller
dishstaller
meStevo said:
Undocumented immigrants already weren't eligible for federal Medicaid, so there's no one to "get off the rolls."
Click to expand...
That's only part correct. Actually I had to look it up to make sure. There is NO Federal money going to Medicaid for illegals but there ARE some states that use State money to pay for Medicaid for illegals. Here's the list

    • California: Covers all income-eligible undocumented adults. [1, 2]
    • Colorado: Covers specific adult demographics (with upcoming budget caps in 2027). [1]
    • Illinois: Covers specific adult age brackets. [1]
    • New York: Covers specific adult demographics. [1]
    • Oregon: Covers all income-eligible undocumented adults. [1, 2]
    • Washington: Covers specific adult demographics. [1, 2]
    • Washington, D.C.: Provides adult coverage through the D.C. Health Care Alliance. [1, 2]
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meStevo
meStevo
dishstaller said:
That's only part correct. Actually I had to look it up to make sure. There is NO Federal money going to Medicaid for illegals but there ARE some states that use State money to pay for Medicaid for illegals. Here's the list

    • California: Covers all income-eligible undocumented adults. [1, 2]
    • Colorado: Covers specific adult demographics (with upcoming budget caps in 2027). [1]
    • Illinois: Covers specific adult age brackets. [1]
    • New York: Covers specific adult demographics. [1]
    • Oregon: Covers all income-eligible undocumented adults. [1, 2]
    • Washington: Covers specific adult demographics. [1, 2]
    • Washington, D.C.: Provides adult coverage through the D.C. Health Care Alliance. [1, 2]
Click to expand...

Fair point, but it's consistent with what I said: no federal Medicaid money goes to undocumented immigrants. Those programs are state-funded, so the federal ~$1T cut can't touch them. Whatever states decide to do with their own programs is a separate budget decision.
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vazhog
vazhog
The feds give money to the states for them to use - Cutting the fed funding only means the taxpayer savings will passed onto the states that need to make up the Fed dollars cut -See the list above for those states affected
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TWiT Tech Podcast Network
· posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Rest in Peace Walter Koenig & Patrick Stewart

Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxc8oEnTTpc


Direct YouTube Link - Rest in Peace Walter Koenig & Patrick Stewart
TWIT's Website
TWIT Live Feed
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TWiT Tech Podcast Network
· posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Apple's New Touchscreen MacBook Pro with Tandem OLED Display

Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!


View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Obg_1yMsldU


Direct YouTube Link - Apple's New Touchscreen MacBook Pro with Tandem OLED Display
TWIT's Website
TWIT Live Feed
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Linus Tech Tips
· posted in Linus Tech Tips

Ep. 35 - Best Tech for a Deserted Island...

Time for another AWESOME video from Linus Tech Tips!


View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/9st7OYkUHJk


Direct YouTube Link - Ep. 35 - Best Tech for a Deserted Island...
Linus on Facebook
The LTT Store
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dfergie
dfergie
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU!
Last reply · posted in What's Cooking?

What's For Lunch?

We have a Breakfast and Dinner thread so... :)
Continuing from the Breakfast thread, found Cornbread mix so ...
Yellow Cornbread Mix
2 Hatch Green Chiles -diced
1 Egg
2/3 cup of milk
add to greased pan
Bake for 400f 20-25 minutes(From instructions)
now to put together and try... this to go with pinto beans...
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dfergie
Chili dog bowl, water… (homemade chili)
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TRG
Leftover wanton soup and pork fried rice. Water.
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dfergie
IMG_5955.webp

Sweet tea…
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TRG
Tuna salad sandwich on toasted honey whole wheat bread with a handful of kettle chips. Water.
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TRG
Breakfast for lunch. Crispy corned beef hash, home fries, two over easy eggs and sourdough toast.

1653.webp
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dfergie
dfergie
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU!
Last reply · posted in The Sports Section

Auto Racing 2026

New thread or keep this one?

View: https://www.youtube.com/live/AgOI9DNCmPg?si=l-YcZmHl7GXXF8fX
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Foxbat
Foxbat
Weird F1 weekend is already over with a Saturday race.
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dfergie
dfergie
Tried to watch the truck race but the stage c**p is why I don't watch NASCAR anymore…
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Yespage
Today is the anniversary of Dan Wheldon's passing at Las Vegas in a dreadful crash that luckily didn't take more drivers' lives. I vaguely remember the crash, but I more strongly remember Paul Tracy trying to keep it together as he left the Medical Center knowing that Dan most likely wasn't going to.

The safety in these vehicles is beyond incomprehensible, especially relative to what it was 60 years ago, when dying wasn't unexpected. But it is still very dangerous. I always scoff at the prayer invocations, but never scoff at the risks these drivers take and the emergency workers out there who might need to pull short of a miracle to save a driver's life.
dfergie said:
Tried to watch the truck race but the stage c**p is why I don't watch NASCAR anymore…
Click to expand...
HBO Max has the live in car streaming without commercials, which provides an interesting take, but you are driving blind, knowing only what the team is telling the driver about what is happening on the track. The stages definitely ruin the NASCAR set up.
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Yespage
NASCAR is an abject mess, but at least it has Kyle Larson. Guy had the lead on the green/white checker, fell back to 12th or the like, kept his cool, and charged back to win with room to spare at the line. And win very cleanly!

NASCAR needs to stop racing at Talladega. Especially if they are going for elderly Sunday drives at the track! Stage racing is real stupid, but NASCAR should consider one half point a second per group gap as a bonus.
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TWiT Tech Podcast Network
· posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Cyberattacks Are Coming—Is Your Company Ready? #shorts

Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!


View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/4JfcPctpQmk


Direct YouTube Link - Cyberattacks Are Coming—Is Your Company Ready? #shorts
TWIT's Website
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