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Agonizing Fury

Last reply Jun 9, 2008 · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

Is Dish Spying on me?

I'm sorry if this post seems alarmist, but I have done some research to try to verify the info before posting. I seem to be running into dead ends a lot, so I thought I would ask here.

I recently read an article (TV, Meet the Web. Google Analytics Starts Measuring TV Ads) about Google's new TV Analytics software. Google Claims this service can give advertisers the ability to see "tuning behavior during your ad via second-by-second data from millions of set-top-boxes" (direct quote from TV Ads - AdWords - Google) According to the tech crunch article this project is currently limited to Dish Network Advertising. So needless to say my first step is to ask Dish Network about it. Here is how that conversation went:

Note: I have removed my personal information from the conversation as well as replacing my real name with my Assumed Name on this board

Please wait while we find a representative to assist you...
All agents are currently busy. Please stand by.
You have been connected to (MangRF) Sara H.
(MangRF) Sara H: Thank you for choosing Dish Network the leader in HD and DVR. I will be happy to assist you today. Please give me 2-3 minutes to access your account and review the information you have already provided.
Agonizing Fury: Hello Sara. you will probably need the number ********** to access my account
(MangRF) Sara H: thank you
Agonizing Fury: sorry it's a habit to put my cell phone in web forms
(MangRF) Sara H: that's ok
(MangRF) Sara H: we do not give any of your information to advertisers.
Agonizing Fury: funny because that was actually my question for today.
Agonizing Fury: I recently read an article about Google's new TV Analytics software which according to Google's Claims can give advertisers the ability to see "tuning behavior during your ad via second-by-second data from millions of set-top-boxes" (direct quote from TV Ads - AdWords - Google)
Agonizing Fury: There product offering is currently limited to Dish Network so I was curious how they get this information?
(MangRF) Sara H: ok, one moment
(MangRF) Sara H: I was not aware of this.
(MangRF) Sara H: I can't find any information stating that we do this.
Agonizing Fury: Nor could I find any information on Dish Netowrks site about what data is actually collected by Dish Network when my receiver is connected to a phone line so I was a little curious
(MangRF) Sara H: I can tell you that
(MangRF) Sara H: when the phone line is connected we can view the "health" of you receiver. we are informed when it has technical difficulties
(MangRF) Sara H: we can also track it's location
Agonizing Fury: STB Health and Avoidance of account stacking are the ones I already know about. What I want to know is does the receiver transmit any data regarding my viewing habits either anonymously or otherwise?
(MangRF) Sara H: not that I'm aware of
(MangRF) Sara H: if it does, we haven't been told about it
Agonizing Fury: Is there any chance I could get you to escalate this question, and have a reply sent to my email address at *****@gmail.com?
(MangRF) Sara H: I can submit this to our engineers and when I get a response I can e-mail you back.
Agonizing Fury: that would be outstanding. Thankyou so much for your time.
(MangRF) Sara H: Is there anything else I can do for you?
Agonizing Fury: Nope just that quick question. You have a wonderful night.
(MangRF) Sara H: Thank you for using Dish Network Live Chat. Have a great day.

It seems that if they are indeed collecting this info, they certainly want to maintain plausible deniability by not informing their CSRs of it. I am still waiting on a reply to that conversation. I decided to read Dish Network's Privacy Policy (DISH Network -- Subscriber Privacy Notice) while I waited and found this interesting little tidbit

...the satellite system automatically collects certain information on your use of these services. Most of this information is used to carry out a particular request you make using your remote control or set-top box and is not personally identifiable information. This information may include information required to change your television channel, review listings in an electronic program guide, and pause or fast forward through certain programs, among other information. It may also include other information such as the time you actually use our services and the use of other features of our services, and which menus and menu screens are used most often and the time spent using them...

It does seem to be limited to when using interactive features, but then again DVR could be considered an interactive feature. The other thing I found interesting about the Privacy policy is it only describes collection and sharing practices with regards to Personally identifiable information. It makes no statements whatsoever about collection or sharing of data that they might consider anonymous (Such as "anonymous" data about subscribers viewing habits). I would really appreciate some info on this from someone who may be more in the know about this than me.

Agonizing Fury

Note: I will update you in the event that I receive a reply from dish network regarding this issue.

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crappieguy

Jun 7, 2008

Tivo done it for years then sold it to "neilson. They collect your info, then SELL it to the advertisers. That is the TRUE reason for phone line connection. A source of revenue!!!!!
Heck with TIVO they MAKE you pay them for the DVR service then sell the info they collect from you. When I saw the new dish privacy statement, and the "unidentifiable info" clause I posted about it then but was no taken seriously..

kb7oeb

Jun 8, 2008

crappieguy said:
Tivo done it for years then sold it to "neilson. They collect your info, then SELL it to the advertisers. That is the TRUE reason for phone line connection. A source of revenue!!!!!
Heck with TIVO they MAKE you pay them for the DVR service then sell the info they collect from you. When I saw the new dish privacy statement, and the "unidentifiable info" clause I posted about it then but was no taken seriously..

Tivo lets you opt out, with Dish you'll just have to unplug the phoneline.

wardfan

Jun 8, 2008

kb7oeb said:
Tivo lets you opt out, with Dish you'll just have to unplug the phoneline.

But with the broadband access on the receivers, like the way mine is set up without a phone line, will the data still go to dish? I'd bet money it does.

Smith P.

Jun 8, 2008

wardfan said:
But with the broadband access on the receivers, like the way mine is set up without a phone line, will the data still go to dish? I'd bet money it does.

It does. And more efficient way. Not for you, eventually.

navychop

Jun 8, 2008

Speaking of the Do Not Call Registry, it is about time for all of us that signed early to renew it.

"People can register their home and cell phone numbers or file complaints at www.donotcall.gov or by calling 1-888-382-1222.

The registry prohibits telemarketers from calling phone numbers on the list. Companies face fines of up to $11,000 for each violation.

Organizations engaged in charitable, political or survey work are exempt. Companies that have an established business relationship with a customer also may call for up to 18 months after the last purchase, payment or delivery."

As we've all learned, "survey work" can be expanded to cover almost anything. sigh.

wardfan

Jun 8, 2008

Smith said:
It does. And more efficient way. Not for you, eventually.

Sorry, not sure exactly what you mean, could you elaborate?

8bitbytes

Jun 9, 2008

I'm sure your signed agreement with Dish includes a consent to "monitoring" and other similar language. They provide a service and you agree to allow the service provider to determine the best way to provide the service you want. Apparently, this has helped them determine that you want to watch fishing and not Voom channels. (There, now another thread has been co'opted by Voomers.

)

As an aside, everyone who leaves their DVR or receiver on and just turns off their tv has led these agencies to believe that we all want to watch Ricki Lake and other garbage...

truckracer

Jun 9, 2008

This happens all the time

Digital cable services do it to.
The small dish satellite companies do it. They actually can attach an ID on the info.
They can use your IP address or caller ID (dial up applications).

They can then know what you watch and when, they then know the hottest time slots to sell to the commercial owners for the highest bid.

From the paranoid point of view:

Information is power. That has been proven over and over. Why do you think every major corporation wants you to pay your bills, shop, and communicate online? Use your brain here........It obviously generates $$$$$$ somewhere.

Look at the GPS in your cellphone. Pretty soon when you get close to a shopping mall or store...You will have instant redeemable coupons pop up on your phone. Authorities are already pushing for legislation that will allow highway patrol to use real time gps data to bust you for speeding using your cellphone. One day cellphones will have a real gps receiver and not the AGPS (triangulation system). Your phone camera and mic and already be activated without your knowledge or consent at any time.
Your onstar system can too. They can activate the mic, monitor real time data from your engine computer showing :

vehicle speed
vehicle location
brake pedal (applied or not)
seatbelt on or off
inertia sensors can sense if the vehicle is turning
throttle position
gear position
emissions functions (wait til the global warmers get a hold on that one).
amount of fuel in your tank.

DERM (diagnostic energy reserve module) air bag controller records approx 30 seconds of real time data before near or total deployment of air bags. This info can be downloaded from the OBD 2 connector under your dash for review in court to re-construct
accidents and possible bring about criminal charges.
"No officer, I was only driving 65mph"........."It shows here Mr.Jon Dough , that you were travelling 90 mph at 75% throttle in third gear according to the data I have downloaded from the DERM." (Officer or judge).

Not to mention some day law enforcement will be able to shut down your car remotely.

It goes on and on.

They know who you are, what you do, what you buy, and what you WATCH on tv.

No one respects privacy anymore. It has become an oxymoron these days.

Your great grandchildren will laugh at the concept one day.

it's truely amazing at how much technology has eluded the general public. All the RF ID tags that are in your clothing, shoes, and electronics. I had a cellphone that could set off the security RF ID units at walmart. Ok sure, the RF field from the phone right....No I could remove the battery and it will still set it off.

wardfan

Jun 9, 2008

Unfortunately you are 100% correct.

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Gary Toma

Staff member Pub Member / Supporter Cutting Edge

Last reply 34 minutes ago · posted in DIRECTV Technical Resources Forum

DIRECTV Transponder Map ~ Data 10/21/2026

The TPN Map Excel Presents all DIRECTV Channels:

National (50-States or wide/NAT+PR beams)
Local (Local-Into-Local or narrow/Spot beams)

Additional tabs provide:

OTA the (Over-The-Air) Database
VOD (Video On_Demand) Records
Offline Records
Engr Records
Net Decoder a graphic presentation of all satellites and transponders

Domestic Satellites
@99W...... D11, D14
@101W.... D16
@103W.... D12, D15
@110W.... D5
@119W.... D8

Understanding the TPN Map

Making Sense of the TPN Map Display Conventions

DIRECTV_TPN_Map_261021.xlsx 1,876 KB

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KyL416

Friday at 8:11 PM

The BLUES, BLUJCKTS, HURCANES and WILD channels are now active and no longer pointing to the TV Promise slate

Reactions: dtv757 and Mr Tony

dtv757

Monday at 7:33 AM

For those dazn nba channels are they sat only or sat & streaming

KyL416

Monday at 1:50 PM

Both, and they just made it official with a multiyear deal that also includes TV Everywhere authentication for the DAZN app, and commercial distribution.

DIRECTV, the premier provider of digital television entertainment in the United States, and DAZN, the world's leading sports entertainment platform, today announced a new multi-year distribution agreement for local telecasts of Cleveland Cavaliers, Indiana Pacers, Memphis Grizzlies, Minnesota Timberwolves, and San Antonio Spurs games for DIRECTV streaming, satellite, and U-verse customers in each team's respective NBA-designated home territories.

These DAZN telecasts will be available to DIRECTV customers who subscribe to the Choice or higher packages and to U-verse TV customers who subscribe to the U200 or higher package. Each of DAZN's team services provides live pregame, postgame, and in-game coverage for the respective team.

In the coming weeks, customers who receive access to these teams via DIRECTV will also be able to login to the DAZN platform at no additional cost using their DIRECTV login credentials.

This agreement also provides distribution rights to each of the five NBA teams to all of DIRECTV FOR BUSINESS' thousands of sports bars, restaurants, fitness clubs, and other commercial venues located within each team's respective region.

Reactions: dtv757 and Mr Tony

doctor J

35 minutes ago

DirecTV Satellite Transponder Updates for Oct 28 2026

Comparison of Transponder Data for Oct 28 2026 vs Oct 21 2026:

No changes in system tables for any transponder tuning parameters.

Changes to the use of defined transponders:

1 Transponder cleared of all Streams::
Net 15 TID 12 Beam NAT is a National Transponder on D12@103ca, TPN 13

2 Previously unused Transponders with current APG records::
Net 0 TID 28 Beam NAT + PR is a National Transponder on D16@101, TPN 29
Net 10 TID 126 Beam NAT is a National Transponder on D11@99cb, TPN 3

Stream (PID) counts:

LIVE Streams	National		Spot Beams
	Count	Change	Count	Change
4K	4
HD	264		1449
SD mpeg4	144	-1	194
SD mpeg2	434	1
RB
Audio	89
Push	26
Slate	19		1

TEST Streams	National		Spot Beams
	Count	Change	Count	Change
4K
HD			1
SD mpeg4
SD mpeg2
RB
Engr Work	38

The PID count Excel workbook provides much more count detail.

Newly updated tables of Streams on each transponder are available in the DataDigesters TPN Grids

More details of changes in individual channels will follow in the Weekly Analysis
and Gary Toma's Domestic TPN Map Excel files
A few remaps
Weekly Analysis soon
Enjoy
DataDigesters

doctor J

34 minutes ago

Weekly Analysis for 10/28/2026:

Weekly_Analysis_261028.xlsx 16 KB

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TFLEV

57 minutes ago · posted in TFLEV

Can You ACTUALLY Use the Mazda CX-90 PHEV As an Electric Commuter? | Baseline Challenge

Time for another AWESOME video from TFL Electric Vehicles!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-HYgO5Lpa8

Direct YouTube Link - Can You ACTUALLY Use the Mazda CX-90 PHEV As an Electric Commuter? | Baseline Challenge

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Scott Greczkowski

Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge

Last reply Today at 6:02 AM · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Song Name Game Part 3!

Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne

Get it?

An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....

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long_time_Dish

Yesterday at 7:39 PM

52nd Street - Billy Joel

ClarkGable

Yesterday at 9:29 PM

Caribbean Queen - Billy Ocean

Reactions: dishstaller

dishstaller

Yesterday at 11:28 PM

Don't Stop Me Now - Queen

long_time_Dish

Yesterday at 11:49 PM

Don't Stop Believin' - Journey

Reactions: ClarkGable

ClarkGable

Today at 6:02 AM

Don't Stop - Fleetwood Mac

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TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Today at 3:02 AM · posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Apple's All-New iPad mini

Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EtLJGwEtyT0

Direct YouTube Link - Apple's All-New iPad mini
TWIT's Website
TWIT Live Feed

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JSheridan

Lifetime Supporter

Last reply Today at 1:01 AM · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

All DMA's now Western Arc

I know HipKat said that they were working on conversions but we got the official news yesterday right from Dish that starting next month all DMA's will be on the western arc, and all customers will be assigned to that. That's gonna mean a lot of customers around here aren't gonna get Dish unless there are exceptions. Too many mountains and trees.

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Strega

Friday at 10:01 PM

Even if you are broadcasting old SD-only shows, I would think advertisers would still want their commercials to look good.

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Jimbo

Friday at 11:17 PM

Strega said:
Even if you are broadcasting old SD-only shows, I would think advertisers would still want their commercials to look good.

Advertisers on SD channels are probably Far and Few, very hard to find, they have very few viewers to watch them.

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Mister B

Saturday at 7:35 AM

Jimbo said:
Advertisers on SD channels are probably Far and Few, very hard to find, they have very few viewers to watch them.

I watch mostly SD channels (H&I, Start and ION, etc.). There are plenty of advertisers, this time of the year it is mostly Medicare Advantage plans, auto extended warranties and the occasional walk-in-tub. They know who is watching.

Reactions: Almighty1, savarese04 and charlesrshell

slow_poke_pete

Monday at 10:40 AM

Mister B said:
I watch mostly SD channels (H&I, Start and ION, etc.). There are plenty of advertisers, this time of the year it is mostly Medicare Advantage plans, auto extended warranties and the occasional walk-in-tub. They know who is watching.

can't forget the little blue m&m's

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charlesrshell

Monday at 11:23 AM

slow_poke_pete said:
can't forget the little blue m&m's

That's what my wife calls my Viagra!!

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telstar_1

Monday at 8:12 PM

Why didn't Charlie end up launching starlink

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slow_poke_pete

Yesterday at 2:09 AM

charlesrshell said:
That's what my wife calls my Viagra!!

My gf is 29 years younger than me :shh

Reactions: MikeD-C05, charlesrshell and HipKat

Almighty1

Yesterday at 4:04 PM

telstar_1 said:
Why didn't Charlie end up launching starlink

He does not have the resources aka $$$ compared to Elon Musk as in reality, Elon can eat Charlie for lunch or even mop the floor with Charlie if he wanted to.

Reactions: charlesrshell

slow_poke_pete

Yesterday at 4:58 PM

ment to 20 yrs dam phone

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BradleyD

Yesterday at 11:57 PM

Dish should use both satellite and internet like they do now for all channels. Use either or or both.... like now but subscribers could choose something like internet only, or sat only, or both.

Reactions: charlesrshell

slow_poke_pete

Today at 1:01 AM

BradleyD said:
Dish should use both satellite and internet like they do now for all channels. Use either or or both.... like now but subscribers could choose something like internet only, or sat only, or both.

They have sling tv wich sucks ass it needs a major upgrade

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TvMind

Last reply Yesterday at 10:02 PM · posted in C-BAND Satellite Discussion

SES 1 101° W Horizontal "Issues" a.k.a "I want my M(e)TV"

Howdy folks long time no write.

Issue(s): Horizontal transponders (esp. Weigel mux) breakup/mosaic/sputtering audio, JTV less so (but received perfectly up until a month or so ago.
Vertical is fine (Daystar). Up until recently couldn't even get any signal on Weigel Mux but JTV was perfect.

What I did to improve things: A slight westward move improved reception but only slightly (approx 72 on the micro HD, sorry no dB to post). I removed the 3-way C-Band splitter and used a 2-way to get a 1-2 db signal gain ( the power port goes to the Startrak - the micro HD doesn't have enough juice ! (1st clue) even after swapping the switching power supply it came with with a heftier linear 12 V supply (less RFI too !).
I have had issues with the uHD before signal breaking up that a reboot would clear up (clue #2 = dying tuner?) - FYI, I reinforced the IF input and removed all flux from the pcb completely with a Flux Removal Pen (MG Chemicals Cat No. 4140-P) which definitely makes a huge difference.

I went outside and pushed and pulled reflector slightly and no improvement. Pole (actually tower in yard - the neighbours love me..NOT) is plumb, checked with carpenters level. Dish was last peaked in 2017 or so, after overhauling 24" Von Weise, new Acme, fresh grease, etc. Focal length, f/d ratio etc meticulously adjusted. One panel has a tear so planning to repair that this weekend when my cousin comes over ( to help me out (old guy here) forecast calls for sunshine.

What has changed: My utility company has installed new high tension line poles (one smack dab in the middle of 101°W target! But they put it in last year and reception (of JTV (HOR) at least) was fine, BUT when they came out to transfer the wires over this year from the old (sawed in half) pole that's about when the troubles started (coincidence?), but again Daystar (VER) was fine. I always had this pole in the light of sight of 101° before with no issues. (fyi my zenith sat 74° is unobstucted, but can't test)

In the meantime Weigel mux is trying to break in MOSTLY in LATE at night (less cell usage?) (audio not video except for a frame here or there) so don't know what has changed with this mux which suddenly "woke up". I have never had to fuss with dish moves on this satellite ( the slightest move +/- motor clicks loses lock, wheres normally on C-band I can go significantly wider east or west and still have a strong signal ( have these gone "spot beam" or narrower somehow and what is the slight difference in Az listed on Lyngsat to 100.9° affect things ( isn't that the declination i.e. requiring a tweak of declination?).

Long story short (too late, ha), if I had another DVB-S2 box to try and / or a newer more stable PLL lnb ( I have been meaning to upgrade many a time but never got arround to it) I could determine if it's my antiquated receiving equipment, or my dish/feed alignment ( doubtful as it tracks everything from 55 °W to 133 ° W nicely.) or the dreaded 5G! (BUT only on HOR and not VER?).
I read another post where the OP (with his smaller 7.5 footer) played around with the illumination to peak desired transponder and reduce qrm on interfering/ stronger xpndrs (even on 103° W). So will play with that too - and cut away the RG-6 a and pull up a fresh section with new PPC and coax Seal. Open the throat cap see if any cobwebs are there and check servo operation (also changed in last maintence 10 years ago).

Finally, this will probably be the last chance I get to play with the BUD from the looks of it (providers leaving, auctioning off rest of spectrum imminent above 4.0 Ghz, and to keep the peace with neighbours so it would be nice to have that mux back for the long, cold and dark winters to comfort this old man before I call it quits and buy a VHF/UHF/FM Yagi and get MeTV, H&I from my Vermont local stations (checked at a friends today and they come in nicely - except ABC) .
Only one guy in town (Montreal) I may be able to get a receiver or PLL lnb from to try (RPS Sat) so hopefully with elimnate that as a possible culprit. Be nice to pick up a cheap or used PLL lnb to try w/o 5G BPF (money is tight )

Like others I couldn't care less about "tv" (well maybe just a liitle or a lot) it's the challenge that excites me , I can get MeTV other ways OTA (no pirate crap).

So what do you guys (and gals) think ?. p.s. I don't have a spectrum analyzer and there are def/ cell towers nearby (half a Km or so away).
Oh and time permitting will hammer out dings too and wire damaged mesh on one section for an extra dB or two. Hesitate to touch Declination, Elevation and pole mount but will play around with those a little too... Why is this mux for finicky suddenly ?(8psk, 5/6 fec, beamwidthetc.. man wish they went back to VER I think everthing would be fine! For the engineers out here does 5G QRM affect one poliarization (HOR) more than another (VER)? I understand the strong interference swamps out the input mixer/local oscilator in the hapless old C-band lnb (I think it at time affect KU too esp. LPB on 101°W KU - incidentally thos were weak or "gone' but are back almost at the time MeTV improved..hmm Terrestrial interference?

Any thoughts or suggestions ( cheap or free solutions please) greatly appreciated. Cheers.

p.p.s. Micro HD can't display Decades and Toons but records them fine so I can watch on another box/media player (Ali chip set issue). Another reason to upgrade.

Anybody interested in a nice C/KU system free ? (for next Spring/Summer 2027)

[Sami 10' mesh, Corotor II+, Eagle Aspen (very old) C-band lnb, Norsat Ku lnb, Channel Master C/Ku (H/V) switch, Startrak 400 Analog receiver w/ motor control, Geosat uHD DVD-S2, CW600S for Mpeg-2]

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arlo

Oct 20, 2026

To me it looks like all of the intelligent things to diagnose the problem 'on the cheap' are being done.
I have my own thoughts of lnbf's using an external filter between the feed and coax. It would be cool to see what Brian could add.
Do his units have the filter before the actual LNA chip in the circuit? In other words, signal is focused at the lnbf throat. The probes for h & v polarity send the signal to.......filtering......then to the lna IC......
Or probes, lna, then filtering. Makes sense to trap the bad stuff before amplification to me.

On the cheap sometimes leaves questions. Enosat and El Bandido both use dvb-s pci cards and TBS USB receivers.
With those, and software. Signal analysis becomes sort of easy. Or tapping into your coax with a dc pass splitter, decoupling capacitor, and using a spectrum analyzer. Tuning across the LO band. Finding signal spikes. Digging deep.

Still making my decision on a (most probably) TBS PCIe tuner card. But I have tapped into my coax with my ancient but quite impressive HP spectrum analyzer and tinysa.
I don't have 5G interference so far that I know of. But have my suspects because I'm only able to snag signal from 131W in the winter when the leaves drop. But out of curiosity do scan it in the fall. And seem to be getting a signal that 'shouldn't' be there and a scan shows no channels. Far as I got.

An idea pops up to rig up an LNBF on a stick. Along with the tinysa and power supply and do some rogue signal searches. War Driving, of sorts. But. I wouldn't think that a chinabox, firmware based receiver would be of much help.
From what I see scanning across the frequency band. 5G cell transmission is always on and is very wide spectrum.
Whether anyone is actually using talking, texting, watching stupid human tricks on YouTube Makes no difference. The RF is there. So why would a C Band setup come and go? And what if you dumped the corotor and went modern voltage controlled polarity?

Another thought. Since you've learned the optimal position to place the scalar to illuminate out to the dish rim. And peaked the feed. There's most of a roll of aluminum flashing out in my garage that would most definitely wrap around my dish perimeter. That and a bag of large binder clips from the office supply. wally world. Ideas?

brownsfan1

Thursday at 8:23 PM

arlo said:
To me it looks like all of the intelligent things to diagnose the problem 'on the cheap' are being done.
I have my own thoughts of lnbf's using an external filter between the feed and coax. It would be cool to see what Brian could add.
Do his units have the filter before the actual LNA chip in the circuit? In other words, signal is focused at the lnbf throat. The probes for h & v polarity send the signal to.......filtering......then to the lna IC......
Or probes, lna, then filtering. Makes sense to trap the bad stuff before amplification to me.

On the cheap sometimes leaves questions. Enosat and El Bandido both use dvb-s pci cards and TBS USB receivers.
With those, and software. Signal analysis becomes sort of easy. Or tapping into your coax with a dc pass splitter, decoupling capacitor, and using a spectrum analyzer. Tuning across the LO band. Finding signal spikes. Digging deep.

Still making my decision on a (most probably) TBS PCIe tuner card. But I have tapped into my coax with my ancient but quite impressive HP spectrum analyzer and tinysa.
I don't have 5G interference so far that I know of. But have my suspects because I'm only able to snag signal from 131W in the winter when the leaves drop. But out of curiosity do scan it in the fall. And seem to be getting a signal that 'shouldn't' be there and a scan shows no channels. Far as I got.

An idea pops up to rig up an LNBF on a stick. Along with the tinysa and power supply and do some rogue signal searches. War Driving, of sorts. But. I wouldn't think that a chinabox, firmware based receiver would be of much help.
From what I see scanning across the frequency band. 5G cell transmission is always on and is very wide spectrum.
Whether anyone is actually using talking, texting, watching stupid human tricks on YouTube Makes no difference. The RF is there. So why would a C Band setup come and go? And what if you dumped the corotor and went modern voltage controlled polarity?

Another thought. Since you've learned the optimal position to place the scalar to illuminate out to the dish rim. And peaked the feed. There's most of a roll of aluminum flashing out in my garage that would most definitely wrap around my dish perimeter. That and a bag of large binder clips from the office supply. wally world. Ideas?

I did some more investigating and found I got the MeTV mux in the early hours, until about 6am then the pixelating starts. Gets worse until around 8am its totally gone. I suspect my local cell tower is ramping up traffic as the morning goes on. My Titanium feed does a super job and most everything is clear that wasn't before but this mux is aggravating! I seem to just be over the signal threshold to work until the 5G total overwhelms my system. I'm using an old 9 foot spun aluminum dish and was wondering if I went to a 12 ft dish this would solve the problem? I know bigger is better in most satellite dish related signal problems. If this is true I will be searching for a bigger dish. I like your idea of flashing put around the dish perimeter. I have some I need to dig out and try before I start ripping out my dish. Anybody have any ideas if the bigger dish would do better? Any help would be appreciated!

SDA_FL_USA

Thursday at 9:13 PM

brownsfan1 said:
I did some more investigating and found I got the MeTV mux in the early hours, until about 6am then the pixelating starts. Gets worse until around 8am its totally gone. I suspect my local cell tower is ramping up traffic as the morning goes on. My Titanium feed does a super job and most everything is clear that wasn't before but this mux is aggravating! I seem to just be over the signal threshold to work until the 5G total overwhelms my system. I'm using an old 9 foot spun aluminum dish and was wondering if I went to a 12 ft dish this would solve the problem? I know bigger is better in most satellite dish related signal problems. If this is true I will be searching for a bigger dish. I like your idea of flashing put around the dish perimeter. I have some I need to dig out and try before I start ripping out my dish. Anybody have any ideas if the bigger dish would do better? Any help would be appreciated!

8 1/2 Foot mesh here with the c140 lnbf and a verizon 5g tower nearby. Got no issue with the Metv transponder. Are you sure you have the lnbf setup correct? When I set my c140 up I noticed it was about 1/4 to 1/2 inch pushed in closer to the dish, sticking out of the scaler ring than my old lnbf was. Thought I may have trouble with that but my signal readings are higher than they had ever been.

brownsfan1

Friday at 9:06 AM

SDA_FL_USA said:
8 1/2 Foot mesh here with the c140 lnbf and a verizon 5g tower nearby. Got no issue with the Metv transponder. Are you sure you have the lnbf setup correct? When I set my c140 up I noticed it was about 1/4 to 1/2 inch pushed in closer to the dish, sticking out of the scaler ring than my old lnbf was. Thought I may have trouble with that but my signal readings are higher than they had ever been.

Thanks for the info. I'll do a detailed feed alignment this weekend. I have to be on a ladder to tweak this 101w satellite with the MeTV mux. Luckily I've got a V8 Finder so I'll put that to use. Funny, I got the MeTV mux fine this Friday morning. Jewelry TV was completely garbled though. I'm wondering if I'm having 2 degree spacing problems more than the cell tower affecting me. Seems strange some days I'm fine and others MeTV is completely destroyed. In the old days I could just move the dish to 99w and see what's there adjacent to MeTV. Maybe if I optimize my feed I can eliminate my problem either way. I have a 9 foot spun aluminum dish that may not have the best two degree isolation. Some of these were crudely made with a poor parabolic shape. I'll keep you posted and thanks to all for the advice!

arlo

Friday at 12:02 PM

Just some rambling here. Be safe on that ladder.
Took me about 20 seconds looking at a YouTube video showing the V8 Finder in use. A spectrum analyzer display.
Well, Cool! And it can power an lnbf stand alone. More cooler.
Well there's your 5g interference wonderment solution. IF you had a spare C band lnbf. Put it on a stick and go "wardriving". If 5g towers are blowing out signals strong enough to cause interference in your dish. Well.....
And off-axis, not in the same direction as the dish is pointed? Don't exactly know.

Take a drive around and look at towers with microwave dishes bolted to them. You'll see that a large share of them do have a perimeter shield. Further diving into the likes of Andrews show shields as an optional add-on to do just what you think they should do. Block adjacent interference. Probably a good idea when multiple units are on the same, or adjacent towers. Ya' think?

Some not-so-many years ago when I dove into this whole dish antenna thing. I replaced the c/ku band corotor feed with a Titanium C2-W. Being a good boy. Assuming that the original scalar was in the proper position from day one back in the 80's. I followed instructions and stuck the unit in the hole and bolted it down at the stamped marking as per instructions. I got my first signal finally with the Zgemma H7. I was thinking "that's it?". Signal sucked.
Then I looked at how the corotor feed was located looking at the bolt marks on the tube.
It was like focusing a telescope or camera. In the end. I was getting pretty good signals. That was in the dead of winter. And I hate the cold.

A buttonhook feed support. Give a margin of adjustability versus perimeter arm scalar supports.
And a lot of reading and experimenting showed that although the scalar was probably where it should be. Isn't anymore. The focal length / fd ratio calculations probably are right. If you have a perfect parabolic dish.
Mine ain't. And its old. Most probably not a perfect parabola since it was. As well as the polar mount. Fabricated locally.
I spoke to the old guy who installed all of them here back in the heyday. Started installing Prodelin dishes.
Everyone was watching HBO and Playboy. At 3-5 grand a pop.
He told me that him and his sons made a concrete form. Finished with a plaster top coat. And started spraying resin and chopped fiberglass. Then a metal flame sprayer like is used to build up crankshafts and stuff. Finished with several more layers of 'glass. The rest. Polar mount, cast iron pole mount. Contracted locally.
That's the story. I took that old beast and if you've seen Pootie Tang. I juvenated it and then rejuvenated it.

I think that one thing to remember is that in an lnbf. All of the satellite signal amping is done in the low noise amplifier section. What signal is blown out to the coax is done in the intermediate frequency amplifier section.
So what comes in the waveguide is what it is.
I've used several receivers. Different Enigma2 images on the same receiver show different signal levels. It's a software thing. Signal calibration and display. Don't forget that. One image might not give a signal lock on a weak transponder. Fire up another? Look at the TNAP images. An option to display signal below lock.
The only real way to tell the absolute signal level you get in the house is to use a certified spectrum analyzer/service monitor.

BTW. I'm on MeTV right now. Book 'em Danno. Purposefully aimed off-axis just above the threshold of pixelation.
Only thing I see is that the sun came and the sun went. That's where I saw break up for a half hour or so.

brownsfan1

Yesterday at 9:02 PM

arlo said:
Just some rambling here. Be safe on that ladder.
Took me about 20 seconds looking at a YouTube video showing the V8 Finder in use. A spectrum analyzer display.
Well, Cool! And it can power an lnbf stand alone. More cooler.
Well there's your 5g interference wonderment solution. IF you had a spare C band lnbf. Put it on a stick and go "wardriving". If 5g towers are blowing out signals strong enough to cause interference in your dish. Well.....
And off-axis, not in the same direction as the dish is pointed? Don't exactly know.

Take a drive around and look at towers with microwave dishes bolted to them. You'll see that a large share of them do have a perimeter shield. Further diving into the likes of Andrews show shields as an optional add-on to do just what you think they should do. Block adjacent interference. Probably a good idea when multiple units are on the same, or adjacent towers. Ya' think?

Some not-so-many years ago when I dove into this whole dish antenna thing. I replaced the c/ku band corotor feed with a Titanium C2-W. Being a good boy. Assuming that the original scalar was in the proper position from day one back in the 80's. I followed instructions and stuck the unit in the hole and bolted it down at the stamped marking as per instructions. I got my first signal finally with the Zgemma H7. I was thinking "that's it?". Signal sucked.
Then I looked at how the corotor feed was located looking at the bolt marks on the tube.
It was like focusing a telescope or camera. In the end. I was getting pretty good signals. That was in the dead of winter. And I hate the cold.

A buttonhook feed support. Give a margin of adjustability versus perimeter arm scalar supports.
And a lot of reading and experimenting showed that although the scalar was probably where it should be. Isn't anymore. The focal length / fd ratio calculations probably are right. If you have a perfect parabolic dish.
Mine ain't. And its old. Most probably not a perfect parabola since it was. As well as the polar mount. Fabricated locally.
I spoke to the old guy who installed all of them here back in the heyday. Started installing Prodelin dishes.
Everyone was watching HBO and Playboy. At 3-5 grand a pop.
He told me that him and his sons made a concrete form. Finished with a plaster top coat. And started spraying resin and chopped fiberglass. Then a metal flame sprayer like is used to build up crankshafts and stuff. Finished with several more layers of 'glass. The rest. Polar mount, cast iron pole mount. Contracted locally.
That's the story. I took that old beast and if you've seen Pootie Tang. I juvenated it and then rejuvenated it.

I think that one thing to remember is that in an lnbf. All of the satellite signal amping is done in the low noise amplifier section. What signal is blown out to the coax is done in the intermediate frequency amplifier section.
So what comes in the waveguide is what it is.
I've used several receivers. Different Enigma2 images on the same receiver show different signal levels. It's a software thing. Signal calibration and display. Don't forget that. One image might not give a signal lock on a weak transponder. Fire up another? Look at the TNAP images. An option to display signal below lock.
The only real way to tell the absolute signal level you get in the house is to use a certified spectrum analyzer/service monitor.

BTW. I'm on MeTV right now. Book 'em Danno. Purposefully aimed off-axis just above the threshold of pixelation.
Only thing I see is that the sun came and the sun went. That's where I saw break up for a half hour or so.

Well summing it up in one word...success! I spent about 2 hours tweaking the feed. Found I was almost 2 inches too far from the actual focal length. Plus adjusting the skew just a hair made a big difference. I measured 3 points around the dish from the edge to the outside of the scalar ring. One side measured 51 inches and the other 53, Adjusting the button hook feed I was able to get it 52 inches all the way around the dish perimeter to the scalar. I had my doubts this would fix anything but when I turned on the satellite finder I had all the channels in the MeTV mux coming in clear! No more fading away different times of the day and night. Plus the Jewelry channels are all solid also. I'm just wondering...did this just give me more signal to overcome the interference or did properly aligning the feed effectively "blocked out" the 5G interference? Sort of wondering about sidelobes in the old parabolic antenna manuals of the 80s. Just happy to have things working correctly now. Thanks to all who helped especially to Arlo who spent a lot of time commenting to me. Best regards!

Reactions: Keith Brannen, SDA_FL_USA, arlo and 1 other person

primestar31

Yesterday at 9:07 PM

brownsfan1 said:
Well summing it up in one word...success! I spent about 2 hours tweaking the feed. Found I was almost 2 inches too far from the actual focal length. Plus adjusting the skew just a hair made a big difference. I measured 3 points around the dish from the edge to the outside of the scalar ring. One side measured 51 inches and the other 53, Adjusting the button hook feed I was able to get it 52 inches all the way around the dish perimeter to the scalar. I had my doubts this would fix anything but when I turned on the satellite finder I had all the channels in the MeTV mux coming in clear! No more fading away different times of the day and night. Plus the Jewelry channels are all solid also. I'm just wondering...did this just give me more signal to overcome the interference or did properly aligning the feed effectively "blocked out" the 5G interference? Sort of wondering about sidelobes in the old parabolic antenna manuals of the 80s. Just happy to have things working correctly now. Thanks to all who helped especially to Arlo who spent a lot of time commenting to me. Best regards!

Do NOT mess with it anymore just "trying to get it a tiny bit better" than you just got it... I've been through that HELL more times then I'd want to admit.

Reactions: Keith Brannen, cyberham and SDA_FL_USA

arlo

Yesterday at 10:02 PM

Very cool there Brown's. My intentions are good. Sometimes tact....not so much.
I'm glad you could read through the nebula of gunk.
If I can dig through my pictures directory you might pick-up a few things I've done to and made to get as perfect alignment as possible. Your journey shows how a bit of common sense and experimentation while using known guides as a starting point (at least). The phone book just isn't full of big dish service providers like way way back.

To help. A true parabola will converge all incident rays. Light, RF. At one single point. You kind of answered your question. Two inches too close/far from the convergence point (focus) degrades signal strength. If you ever get a chance to examine a telescope. The eyepiece is on a rack. You can adjust the position of the eyepiece distance from the objective. Depending on the eyepiece. The sharpest focus is only at one finely adjusted distance.
Make sense?
And for a telescope made with mirrors. The ultimate eyepiece aim. Imagining a tiny spot right in the center of the glass lens. Will be aimed exactly at the center of the mirror. A small mirror, prism, adjustment screws assists in attaining that perfect place where a star way way back in time shows as a perfect spot. Not an ellipse, etc.
Yeah.

Who knows about the 5g thing? Did your tweaks optimize where the receiver finally got enough usable DVB signal to lock onto them and reject 5g? The crowded room full of drunks thing?

Edit:
Yeah that tiny little bit can drive you nuts.The best and only way is to find a weak transponder on a sat that doesn't "swamp" signal levels. With a matching opposite polarity having close to the same signal level.
There will be a lot of tweaking with an extended arm and......thick cotton gloves. Your body, extremities, close to the lnbf will effect signals. Then just when you think you got it. In your case. Climb down the ladder and get out of the way to see what becomes.
I got obsessed and was out there in 10 degree winter on a step ladder on clear nights.
Tweaking elevation, azimuth, declination. Unbolted actuator gearbox and vice grips. Trying to get the best of the best tracking. Adding those porch rail stainless steel turnbuckles and catv messenger wire from the rim to the scalar to bring 'er back into kilter did wonders. Don't be me. Watch MeTV!

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MartyDe

Last reply Yesterday at 9:47 PM · posted in Over the Air Television By RabbitEars.Info

ATSC 3 converter boxes

Interesting article about the work being done to develope an ATSC 3 converter box. Yes it does mention affordable.

Pearl TV Issues Progress Report on Low-Cost 3.0 Converters in Advance of NAB Show New York

Group has secured lower pricing from key tech players to make less costly boxes available

www.tvtechnology.com

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navychop

Oct 20, 2026

DEATH TO NEXGEN!

Reactions: primestar31, RaVo68, gms49ers and 1 other person

primestar31

Oct 21, 2026

navychop said:
DEATH TO NEXGEN!

It's dead, they just don't know it yet. They killed it by forcing DRM on it, and that TOTALLY botched implementing it.

There is absolutely NO compelling reason for anybody to switch to ATSC3.0. They only want it as a total and complete money grab.

Reactions: slow_poke_pete, FTA4PA and navychop

Mister B

Thursday at 7:43 AM

What bothers me is the total waste of broadcasting spectrum in this very crowded market. It has been almost three years now since KFOX converted their broadcast tower to ATSC 3.0 and moved all of their channels to other towers causing noticeable degradation of the picture quality.
I have a Sony TV with 3.0 capabilities but still use the 1.0 version of locals due to the fact that one or all of the 3.0 channels are often missing or unwatchable. In this city of 800K I doubt that more than a few hundred even know about ATSC 3.0.
The only thing that could motivate me to be interested in 3.0 would be if all of the minor networks (diginets) could be in at least 720P rather than blurry ultra-compressed 480i.
Three years is long enough to waste one of the few available RF frequencies in the area for this trial.
It is time to either move on with this experiment or call it quits.

navychop

Thursday at 4:31 PM

Mister B said:
In this city of 800K I doubt that more than a few hundred even know about ATSC 3.0.

They might notice the hand going into their pocket for their wallet.

Reactions: FTA4PA

navychop

Thursday at 4:31 PM

Mister B said:
It is time to either move on with this experiment or call it quits.

QFT. Of course, my preference involves a curb and some kicking.

Reactions: FTA4PA

slow_poke_pete

Yesterday at 5:37 PM

primestar31 said:
It's dead, they just don't know it yet. They killed it by forcing DRM on it, and that TOTALLY botched implementing it.

There is absolutely NO compelling reason for anybody to switch to ATSC3.0. They only want it as a total and complete money grab.

WHAT ABOUT THE INTERNET PART OF IT. NO ONE WANTS A BOX CONNECTED TO THE INTERNET EITHER.

navychop

Yesterday at 9:47 PM

Cough, cough. COVID vaccine implants.

:oldlaugh

Reactions: HIFI

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dishstaller

Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter

Last reply Yesterday at 9:45 PM · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Might want to watch this before you buy a new vehicle battery

Love this guy's channel. Looks like Walmart has thrown in the towel when it comes to conventional car batteries.

I bought a new AGM battery from Walmart about a year ago, it is already needing replacing. I thought about just buying a regular battery but from what I've read, that might not be a smart move. Might check my Forscan program and see if I can change the battery type from AGM.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awe7kY5nvdU

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harshness

Sunday at 11:33 AM

When you need a battery, you need a battery.

If you can wait, new technologies are on the not-too-distant horizon.

You're probably doing something wrong if you're only getting a year out of an AGM battery. Heat and infrequent charging both significantly reduce lifetime.

dishstaller

Sunday at 12:53 PM

harshness said:
You're probably doing something wrong if you're only getting a year out of an AGM battery. Heat and infrequent charging both significantly reduce lifetime.

Huh? How can I be doing something wrong.....I took out the original battery, that was 6 yrs old and put in a new one.....kinda hard to screw that up. I figure it was just a bad battery....it happens.

The biggest takeaway I got from this video was the Walmart batteries only had something like 85% of battery life left even though they were brand NEW. The ones from O'Reilly all tested 100% of life left.

Jimbo

Sunday at 1:01 PM

dishstaller said:
Huh? How can I be doing something wrong.....I took out the original battery, that was 6 yrs old and put in a new one.....kinda hard to screw that up. I figure it was just a bad battery....it happens.

The biggest takeaway I got from this video was the Walmart batteries only had something like 85% of battery life left even though they were brand NEW. The ones from O'Reilly all tested 100% of life left.

And the Walmart ones mostly had very little warranty.

My last AGM (using now) I got from O Rielly's, its the Super Start ... I got the Platnium, they had several to choose from.

harshness

Monday at 9:17 AM

Jimbo said:
And the Walmart ones mostly had very little warranty.

The days of the 84-month warranty appear long gone, regardless of brand or where you acquired it. Warranties tend to be shorter, with much greater dependence on quick prorating.

The big problem for lead-acid batteries (whether flooded or AGM) is that the US no longer produces lead (the last smelter closed in 2013) and must import it.

Recycling covers a good chunk of the need (~70%), but it isn't free.

EarDemon

Monday at 11:32 PM

I've always got regular OEM Ford Motorcraft batteries from the dealership and have never really had an issue. On my old Lincoln Aviator (the SUV from the early 00s, not the CUV of today), I had some phantom drain and went though a few batteries, but that was an anomaly and with the standard warranty I got free replacements. Taking the Aviator out of the picture, I've bought two batteries in my 24 years of driving. One battery replacement in my Mountaineer, one in my Navigator. But I probably would have had another one had I kept it around longer. Didn't have the Bronco long enough, and so far still on the factory battery for my Expedition.

I run more than the average bear. Dash cam, two radar detectors (yes, I'm aware that can be problematic when using simultaneously), laser jammers and a police scanner. I'm in Buffalo, 90 degree summers and 0 degree winters. Once in a while in the dead of winter I'll get an alert from the Ford app saying remote features have been disabled to conserve battery, but it starts right up.

dishstaller

Monday at 11:41 PM

EarDemon said:
I run more than the average bear. Dash cam, two radar detectors (yes, I'm aware that can be problematic when using simultaneously), laser jammers and a police scanner.

Reactions: EarDemon and navychop

primestar31

Yesterday at 9:13 PM

EarDemon said:
I've always got regular OEM Ford Motorcraft batteries from the dealership and have never really had an issue. On my old Lincoln Aviator (the SUV from the early 00s, not the CUV of today), I had some phantom drain and went though a few batteries, but that was an anomaly and with the standard warranty I got free replacements. Taking the Aviator out of the picture, I've bought two batteries in my 24 years of driving. One battery replacement in my Mountaineer, one in my Navigator. But I probably would have had another one had I kept it around longer. Didn't have the Bronco long enough, and so far still on the factory battery for my Expedition.

I run more than the average bear. Dash cam, two radar detectors (yes, I'm aware that can be problematic when using simultaneously), laser jammers and a police scanner. I'm in Buffalo, 90 degree summers and 0 degree winters. Once in a while in the dead of winter I'll get an alert from the Ford app saying remote features have been disabled to conserve battery, but it starts right up.

But do you have a license plate mounted on your car? lol

EarDemon

Yesterday at 9:45 PM

Yes, but with smokey covers. I realize they are not a countermeasure for photos or photo radar, but it helps obscure from the average persons eyeballs. Plus with the way licensee plates peel around here, it keeps them protected from the elements.

When I went to a countermeasure meetup over the summer, one of the guys who's planning on doing a cannonball had a plate flipper. While I play fast and loose (pun intended) with these idiotic traffic laws, a plate flipper is something I wouldn't dare use. Although having one in the front to flip to no license plate when traveling though states that don't require one is tempting. Am I really going to get pulled over in Kentucky for having no front NY license plate? This way it cuts down on reflective surfaces and might be helpful with laser avoidance and gives the jammers a better chance to react especially on a larger vehicle. Although LEO is typically trained to hit headlights with their LIDAR.

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