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ScoBuck
Supporting Founder
Last reply · posted in DIRECTV General Forum
DirecTV to announce its 3rd quarter results on Nov 6. Here is the press release with this announcement:

The DIRECTV Group, Inc. - DIRECTV Announces Conference Call and Webcast For Third Quarter 2008 Financial Results and Outlook
16 Replies · 2881 views
C
2pm EST
goaliebob99

No its not its at 2pm EST :D
Rey
Rey
No its not its at 2pm EST :D

OK so when is it?! 2pm eastern or 2pm eastern ? :eureka god! get it together people!!! :D
P
I think it might be helpful to have a separate thread dealing with the start time of today's call.

:eureka

Jeff
Rey
Rey
The DIRECTV Group Reports Third Quarter 2008 Free Cash Flow Quadruples to $332 Million

Increase Fueled by a 24% Decline in Capital Expenditures and Higher Operating Margins

EL SEGUNDO, Calif., Nov 06, 2008 (BUSINESS WIRE) -- --The DIRECTV Group Revenues Increase 15% to Nearly $5.0 Billion
--DIRECTV U.S. Revenues Increase 11% to $4.3 Billion; Latin America up 49% to $658 Million
--The DIRECTV Group Operating Profit Before Depreciation and Amortization (OPBDA) Increases 25% to Over $1.2 Billion
--DIRECTV U.S. OPBDA Grows 16% to Over $1.0 Billion; Latin America Nearly Doubles to $208 Million
The DIRECTV Group, Inc. (NASDAQ:DTV) today reported that third quarter 2008 revenues increased 15% to $4.98 billion, operating profit before depreciation and amortization(1) increased 25% to $1.25 billion and operating profit increased 16% to $658 million compared to last year's third quarter. The DIRECTV Group reported that third quarter net income of $363 million increased 14% and earnings per share increased 22% to $0.33 compared with the same period last year.
"Our strong third quarter results are entirely consistent with DIRECTV's top financial goals to achieve double-digit revenue growth, higher operating margins and significant cash flow growth," said Chase Carey, president and CEO of The DIRECTV Group, Inc. "In an increasingly challenging economic and competitive environment, we're continuing to see strong consumer demand for DIRECTV's unique and differentiated content including its industry-leading HD, DVR and interactive services."
Carey added, "In the U.S., solid DIRECTV subscriber growth coupled with a 6.1% increase in ARPU drove revenues up 11% to $4.3 billion. In addition, our operating margins continued to improve as we capitalized on greater efficiencies and cost controls. Most importantly, DIRECTV U.S.' cash flow before interest and taxes grew 85% to nearly $600 million as the strong revenue and operating profit growth was combined with a 31% decline in capital expenditures. Results in Latin America were also solid as revenues grew 49% to $658 million and operating profit before depreciation and amortization nearly doubled to $208 million primarily due to continued strong subscriber and ARPU growth, particularly in Brazil, Argentina and Venezuela."
THE DIRECTV GROUP'S OPERATIONAL REVIEW
Third Quarter Review
The DIRECTV Group's third quarter revenues of $4.98 billion increased 15% over the same period last year principally due to strong ARPU and subscriber growth at DIRECTV U.S. and DIRECTV Latin America.
The DIRECTV Group Three Months Ended September 30,
Nine Months Ended September 30,
Dollars in Millions except
Earnings per Common Share
2008 2007 2008 2007
Revenues $ 4,981 $ 4,327 $ 14,379 $ 12,370
Operating Profit Before Depreciation and Amortization(1) 1,252 1,004 3,791 3,067
Operating Profit 658 566 2,116 1,869
Net Income 363 319 1,189 1,103
Basic and Diluted Earnings Per Common Share ($) 0.33 0.27 1.05 0.91
Capital Expenditures and Cash Flow
Cash Paid for DIRECTV U.S. Subscriber Leased Equipment - 279 417 805 1,159
Acquisitions, Upgrade and Retention
Cash Paid for Property, Equipment and Satellites 257 289 767 893
Cash Flow Before Interest and Taxes(2) 619 315 1,954 968
Free Cash Flow(3) 332 82 1,249 592
Operating profit before depreciation and amortization increased 25% to $1.25 billion primarily due to the gross profit associated with the higher revenues discussed above, partially offset by higher subscriber acquisition and general and administrative costs. Subscriber acquisition costs increased mostly due to higher sales and marketing expenses related to the acquisition of higher quality and advanced product customers at DIRECTV U.S. Increased general and administrative expenses were primarily due to currency related transaction fees at DIRECTV Latin America and settlement of litigation at DIRECTV U.S. Operating profit increased 16% to $658 million primarily due to the higher OPBDA, partially offset by higher depreciation and amortization associated with the capitalization of customer equipment under the DIRECTV U.S. lease program implemented in March 2006.
Net income increased 14% to $363 million compared with the third quarter of last year as the higher operating profit was partially offset by higher net interest expense primarily associated with an increase in average net debt. Earnings per share increased 22% to $0.33 driven by the higher net income and a reduction in shares outstanding due to share repurchase programs.
Cash flow before interest and taxes(2) nearly doubled to $619 million and free cash flow(3) quadrupled to $332 million compared to the third quarter of 2007 primarily due to the higher OPBDA as well as lower capital expenditures mostly driven by reduced set-top box costs and an increase in the use of refurbished set-top boxes. These improvements were partially offset by higher use of cash for working capital. The period also included cash paid of $1.05 billion for share repurchases and $102 million for transactions related to two DIRECTV U.S. Home Service Providers.
Year-to-Date Review
The DIRECTV Group's nine month revenues of $14.38 billion increased 16% over the same period last year principally due to strong ARPU and subscriber growth at DIRECTV U.S. and DIRECTV Latin America.
Operating profit before depreciation and amortization increased 24% to $3.79 billion primarily due to the gross profit associated with the higher revenues discussed above, partially offset by higher subscriber acquisition and upgrade costs at DIRECTV U.S., as well as increased general and administrative expenses at both DIRECTV U.S. and DIRECTV Latin America. The higher subscriber acquisition and upgrade costs were driven by increased sales and marketing expenses related to the acquisition of higher quality and advanced product customers. General and administrative expenses were higher primarily due to currency related transaction fees at DIRECTV Latin America, a $14 million charge for costs associated with the transition of services from a DIRECTV U.S. Home Service Provider that ceased operations, settlement of litigation at DIRECTV U.S. and a $25 million one-time gain booked in 2007 related to hurricane insurance claims at DIRECTV U.S.
Operating profit increased 13% to $2.12 billion primarily due to the higher OPBDA, partially offset by higher depreciation and amortization primarily associated with the capitalization of customer equipment under the DIRECTV U.S. lease program implemented in March 2006.
Net income climbed 8% to $1.19 billion compared with the first nine months of last year as the higher operating profit was partially offset by higher net interest expense primarily associated with an increase in average net debt and a decrease in average cash balances. Earnings per share increased 15% to $1.05 driven by the higher net income and a reduction in shares outstanding due to share repurchases.
Cash flow before interest and taxes and free cash flow more than doubled to $1.95 billion and $1.25 billion, respectively, compared to the first nine months of 2007 primarily due to the higher OPBDA, lower capital expenditures driven by lower set-top box costs, reduced infrastructure costs related to expanding HD channel capacity, an increase in the use of refurbished set-top boxes, and a $32 million dividend received from Sky Mexico. These improvements were partially offset by higher use of cash for working capital. Also impacting free cash flow were higher income tax payments in 2008 primarily due to an increase in earnings before tax and a higher cash tax rate associated with the utilization of net operating losses and tax credit carry forwards in 2007.
The first nine months of 2008 also included cash paid for share repurchases of $1.79 billion, a capital contribution of $160 million received at the close of the Liberty Media and News Corporation transaction, $102 million in payments for transactions related to two DIRECTV U.S. Home Service Providers, as well as a $2.5 billion debt financing comprised of $1.5 billion in 7(5)/8% senior notes due 2016 and $1.0 billion of incremental floating rate term loans under an existing senior secured credit facility. The net proceeds of these financings are available for general corporate purposes and to fund the remainder of DIRECTV's $3 billion share repurchase program announced in May 2008.
SEGMENT FINANCIAL REVIEW
DIRECTV U.S. Segment
Third Quarter Review
Net subscriber additions of 156,000 were lower than last year's third quarter primarily due to a slight decline in gross additions and a monthly churn rate of 1.64%. The decline in gross additions to 1,002,000 was mainly due to the end of the previous AT&T distribution agreement in the former BellSouth territories on April 1, 2008. The increase in churn was principally due to a more challenging economic and competitive environment. DIRECTV U.S. ended the quarter with 17.32 million subscribers, an increase of 5% over the 16.56 million subscribers reported on September 30, 2007.
In the quarter, DIRECTV U.S. revenues increased 11% to $4.32 billion due to strong ARPU growth and the larger subscriber base. ARPU of $83.59 increased 6.1% principally due to programming package price increases as well as higher HD and DVR service fees.
Three Months Nine Months
DIRECTV U.S. Ended September 30, Ended September 30,
Dollars in Millions except ARPU 2008 2007 2008 2007
Revenue $ 4,324 $ 3,885 $ 12,569 $ 11,150
Average Monthly Revenue per Subscriber (ARPU) ($) 83.59 78.79 81.73 76.22
Operating Profit Before Depreciation and Amortization(1) 1,060 916 3,335 2,847
Operating Profit 532 538 1,842 1,826
Cash Flow Before Interest and Taxes(2) 598 324 1,819 974
Free Cash Flow(3) 361 34 1,090 248
Subscriber Data (in 000's except
Churn)
Gross Subscriber Additions 1,002 1,032 2,860 2,861
Average Monthly Subscriber Churn 1.64 % 1.61 % 1.50 % 1.54 %
Net Subscriber Additions 156 240 560 603
Cumulative Subscribers 17,320 16,556 17,320 16,556
Third quarter 2008 OPBDA increased 16% to $1.06 billion primarily due to the gross profit on the increased revenues, partially offset by higher subscriber acquisition costs mostly due to an increase in sales and marketing expenses related to the acquisition of higher quality and advanced product customers. Also impacting the comparison was higher general and administrative expenses in part due to settlement of litigation. Operating profit in the quarter was down 1% to $532 million as the higher OPBDA was more than offset by increased depreciation expense primarily associated with the capitalization of set-top boxes under the lease program which began in March 2006.
DIRECTV Latin America Segment
The DIRECTV Group owns approximately 74% of Sky Brazil, 41% of Sky Mexico and 100% of PanAmericana, which covers most of the remaining countries in the region. Sky Mexico, whose results are accounted for as an equity method investment and therefore are not consolidated by DIRECTV Latin America, had approximately 1.73 million subscribers as of September 30, 2008 bringing the total subscribers in the region to 5.46 million.
Third Quarter Review
In the third quarter of 2008, DIRECTV Latin America's gross subscriber additions increased 9% however, net additions declined to 79,000 primarily due to higher monthly churn of 2.13%. The increase in churn was primarily due to a 57,000 downward subscriber adjustment in Sky Brazil as a result of the inconsistent application of churn policies in previous periods. Excluding the adjustment, average monthly churn would have been 1.60% compared to 1.41% in last year's third quarter due to higher subscriber disconnects in PanAmericana related to its prepaid business, competition and faster growth. The total number of DIRECTV subscribers in Latin America as of September 30, 2008 increased 21% to 3.73 million compared to 3.09 million as of September 30, 2007.
Revenues for DIRECTV Latin America increased 49% to $658 million in the quarter principally due to strong subscriber and ARPU growth. ARPU increased 21.5% to $59.32 primarily due to favorable exchange rates in Brazil as well as strong ARPU growth in the region, particularly in Argentina, Venezuela and Brazil. DIRECTV Latin America's third quarter 2008 OPBDA of $208 million was nearly double last year's results and operating profit more than tripled to $142 million primarily due to the gross profit generated from the higher revenues. These improvements were partially offset by higher general and administrative expenses primarily due to currency related transaction fees in Venezuela.
Three Months Nine Months
DIRECTV Latin America Ended September 30, Ended September 30,
Dollars in Millions except ARPU 2008 2007 2008 2007
Revenue $ 658 $ 442 $ 1,811 $ 1,220
Average Monthly Revenue per Subscriber (ARPU) ($) 59.32 48.84 56.88 46.98
Operating Profit Before Depreciation and Amortization(1) 208 105 507 280
Operating Profit 142 46 322 103
Cash Flow Before Interest and Taxes(2) 50 24 218 105
Free Cash Flow(3) 12 9 113 74
Subscriber Data(4) (in
000's except Churn)
Gross Subscriber Additions 315 289 1,052 753
Average Monthly Subscriber Churn 2.13 % 1.41 % 1.85 % 1.40 %
Net Subscriber Additions 79 161 463 390
Cumulative Subscribers 3,734 3,092 3,734 3,092
CONFERENCE CALL INFORMATION
A live webcast of The DIRECTV Group's third quarter 2008 earnings call will be available on the company's website at www.directv.com/investor. The webcast will begin at 2:00 p.m. ET, today, November 6, 2008, and will be archived on our website at www.directv.com/investor. Access to the earnings call is also available in the United States by dialing 866-409-1555 and internationally by dialing 913-312-0400. The confirmation code is 4608782.
FOOTNOTES
(1) Operating profit before depreciation and amortization, which is a financial measure that is not determined in accordance with accounting principles generally accepted in the United States of America, or GAAP, should be used in conjunction with other GAAP financial measures and is not presented as an alternative measure of operating results, as determined in accordance with GAAP. Please see each of The DIRECTV Group's and DIRECTV Holdings LLC's Annual Reports on Form 10-K for the year ended December 31, 2007 for further discussion of operating profit before depreciation and amortization. Operating profit before depreciation and amortization margin is calculated by dividing operating profit before depreciation and amortization by total revenues.
(2) Cash flow before interest and taxes, which is a financial measure that is not determined in accordance with GAAP, is calculated by deducting amounts under the captions "Cash paid for property and equipment", "Cash paid for satellites", "Cash paid for subscriber leased equipment -- subscriber acquisitions" and "Cash paid for subscriber leased equipment -- upgrade and retention" from "Net cash provided by operating activities" from the Consolidated Statements of Cash Flows and adding back net interest paid and "Cash paid for income taxes". This financial measure should be used in conjunction with other GAAP financial measures and is not presented as an alternative measure of cash flows from operating activities, as determined in accordance with GAAP. The DIRECTV Group and DIRECTV U.S. management use cash flow before interest and taxes to evaluate the cash generated by our current subscriber base, net of capital expenditures, and excluding the impact of interest and taxes, for the purpose of allocating resources to activities such as adding new subscribers, retaining and upgrading existing subscribers, for additional capital expenditures and as a measure of performance for incentive compensation purposes. The DIRECTV Group and DIRECTV U.S. believe this measure is useful to investors, along with other GAAP measures (such as cash flows from operating and investing activities), to compare our operating performance to other communications, entertainment and media companies. We believe that investors also use current and projected cash flow before interest and taxes to determine the ability of our current and projected subscriber base to fund required and discretionary spending and to help determine the financial value of the company.
(3) Free cash flow, which is a financial measure that is not determined in accordance with GAAP, is calculated by deducting amounts under the captions "Cash paid for property and equipment", "Cash paid for satellites", "Cash paid for subscriber leased equipment -- subscriber acquisitions", and "Cash paid for subscriber leased equipment -- upgrade and retention" from "Net cash provided by operating activities" from the Consolidated Statements of Cash Flows. This financial measure should be used in conjunction with other GAAP financial measures and is not presented as an alternative measure of cash flows from operating activities, as determined in accordance with GAAP. The DIRECTV Group and DIRECTV U.S. management use free cash flow to evaluate the cash generated by our current subscriber base, net of capital expenditures, for the purpose of allocating resources to activities such as adding new subscribers, retaining and upgrading existing subscribers, for additional capital expenditures and as a measure of performance for incentive compensation purposes. The DIRECTV Group and DIRECTV U.S. believe this measure is useful to investors, along with other GAAP measures (such as cash flows from operating and investing activities), to compare our operating performance to other communications, entertainment and media companies. We believe that investors also use current and projected free cash flow to determine the ability of our current and projected subscriber base to fund required and discretionary spending and to help determine the financial value of the company.
(4) DIRECTV Latin America subscriber data exclude subscribers of the Sky Mexico service. Gross and net subscriber additions as well as churn exclude the impact of the migration of approximately 8,000 subscribers in Central America to Sky Mexico in the first nine months of 2008 and 9,000 in the first nine months of 2007. Cumulative subscriber totals for 2007 and 2008 include a reduction for the migration of these subscribers.
CAUTIONARY STATEMENT CONCERNING FORWARD-LOOKING STATEMENTS
NOTE: This release may include or incorporate by reference certain statements that we believe are, or may be considered to be, "forward-looking statements" within the meaning of various provisions of the Securities Act of 1933 and of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934. These forward-looking statements generally can be identified by use of statements that include phrases such as "believe," "expect," "estimate," "anticipate," "intend," "plan," "foresee," "project" or other similar words or phrases. Similarly, statements that describe our objectives, plans or goals also are forward-looking statements. All of these forward-looking statements are subject to certain risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results to differ materially from historical results or from those expressed or implied by the relevant forward-looking statement. Such risks and uncertainties include, but are not limited to: economic conditions; product demand and market acceptance; ability to simplify aspects of our business model, improve customer service, create new and desirable programming content and interactive features, and achieve anticipated economies of scale; government action; local political or economic developments in or affecting countries where we have operations, including political, economic and social uncertainties in many Latin American countries in which DIRECTV Latin America operates; foreign currency exchange rates; currency exchange controls; ability to obtain export licenses; competition; the outcome of legal proceedings; ability to achieve cost reductions; ability of third parties to timely perform material contracts; ability to renew programming contracts under favorable terms; technological risk; limitations on access to distribution channels; the success and timeliness of satellite launches; in-orbit performance of satellites, including technical anomalies; loss of uninsured satellites; theft of satellite programming signals; and our ability to access capital to maintain our financial flexibility. We urge you to consider these factors carefully in evaluating the forward-looking statements.
The DIRECTV Group (NASDAQ:DTV) is a world-leading provider of digital television entertainment services. Through its subsidiaries and affiliated companies in the United States, Brazil, Mexico and other countries in Latin America, the DIRECTV Group provides digital television service to more than 17.3 million customers in the United States and over 5.5 million customers in Latin America.
THE DIRECTV GROUP, INC.
CONSOLIDATED STATEMENTS OF OPERATIONS
(Dollars in Millions, Except Per Share Amounts)
(Unaudited)
Three Months Ended Nine Months Ended
September 30, September 30,
2008 2007 2008 2007
Revenues $ 4,981 $ 4,327 $ 14,379 $ 12,370
Operating costs and expenses
Costs of revenues, exclusive of depreciation and amortization expense
Broadcast programming and other 2,072 1,829 5,894 5,124
Subscriber service expenses 339 317 952 925
Broadcast operations expenses 97 83 276 239
Selling, general and administrative expenses, exclusive of
depreciation and amortization expense
Subscriber acquisition costs 624 547 1,780 1,514
Upgrade and retention costs 268 272 745 703
General and administrative expenses 329 275 941 798
Depreciation and amortization expense 594 438 1,675 1,198
Total operating costs and expenses 4,323 3,761 12,263 10,501
Operating profit 658 566 2,116 1,869
Interest income 27 25 64 96
Interest expense (103 ) (61 ) (248 ) (176 )
Other, net 11 10 29 27
Income from continuing operations before income taxes and 593 540 1,961 1,816
minority interests
Income tax expense (195 ) (220 ) (712 ) (723 )
Minority interests in net earnings of subsidiaries (35 ) (1 ) (60 ) (7 )
Income from continuing operations 363 319 1,189 1,086
Income from discontinued operations, net of taxes - - - 17
Net income $ 363 $ 319 $ 1,189 $ 1,103
Basic and diluted earnings per common share:
Income from continuing operations $ 0.33 $ 0.27 $ 1.05 $ 0.90
Income from discontinued operations, net of taxes - - - 0.01
Basic and diluted earnings per common share $ 0.33 $ 0.27 $ 1.05 $ 0.91
Weighted average number of common shares outstanding (in millions)
Basic 1,106 1,182 1,131 1,209
Diluted 1,111 1,190 1,136 1,217
THE DIRECTV GROUP, INC.
CONSOLIDATED BALANCE SHEETS
(Dollars in Millions)
(Unaudited)
September 30, December 31,
ASSETS 2008 2007
Current assets
Cash and cash equivalents $ 2,988 $ 1,083
Accounts receivable, net of allowances of $60 and $56 1,387 1,535
Inventories 247 193
Deferred income taxes 85 90
Prepaid expenses and other 315 245
Total current assets 5,022 3,146
Satellites, net 2,515 2,026
Property and equipment, net 4,044 3,807
Goodwill 3,786 3,669
Intangible assets, net 1,275 1,577
Investments and other assets 873 838
Total assets $ 17,515 $ 15,063
LIABILITIES AND STOCKHOLDERS' EQUITY
Current liabilities
Accounts payable and accrued liabilities $ 2,802 $ 3,032
Unearned subscriber revenues and deferred credits 490 354
Current portion of long-term debt 95 48
Total current liabilities 3,387 3,434
Long-term debt 5,755 3,347
Deferred income taxes 613 567
Other liabilities and deferred credits 1,764 1,402
Commitments and contingencies
Minority interest 71 11
Stockholders' equity 5,925 6,302
Total liabilities and stockholders' equity $ 17,515 $ 15,063
THE DIRECTV GROUP, INC.
CONSOLIDATED STATEMENTS OF CASH FLOWS
(Dollars in Millions)
(Unaudited)
Nine Months Ended
September 30,
2008 2007
Cash Flows From Operating Activities
Net income $ 1,189 $ 1,103
Income from discontinued operations, net of taxes - (17 )
Income from continuing operations 1,189 1,086
Adjustments to reconcile income from continuing operations to net
cash provided by operating activities:
Depreciation and amortization 1,675 1,198
Amortization of deferred revenues and deferred credits (75 ) (69 )
Dividends received 35 -
Deferred income taxes 101 389
Other 91 32
Change in other operating assets and liabilities:
Accounts receivable, net 137 (38 )
Inventories (37 ) (56 )
Prepaid expenses and other (70 ) (97 )
Accounts payable and accrued liabilities (412 ) (2 )
Unearned subscriber revenue and deferred credits 136 193
Other, net 51 8
Net cash provided by operating activities 2,821 2,644
Cash Flows From Investing Activities
Cash paid for property and equipment (1,480 ) (1,903 )
Cash paid for satellites (92 ) (149 )
Investment in companies, net of cash acquired (203 ) (339 )
Purchase of short-term investments - (588 )
Sale of short-term investments - 748
Other, net 37 48
Net cash used in investing activities (1,738 ) (2,183 )
Cash Flows From Financing Activities
Cash proceeds from debt issuance 2,490 -
Debt issuance costs (19 ) -
Repayment of long-term debt (35 ) (218 )
Net increase in short-term borrowings - 2
Repayment of other long-term obligations (92 ) (97 )
Capital contribution 160 -
Common shares repurchased and retired (1,790 ) (1,546 )
Stock options exercised 100 84
Excess tax benefit from share-based compensation 8 6
Net cash provided by (used in) financing activities 822 (1,769 )
Net increase (decrease) in cash and cash equivalents 1,905 (1,308 )
Cash and cash equivalents at beginning of the period 1,083 2,499
Cash and cash equivalents at the end of the period $ 2,988 $ 1,191
Supplemental Cash Flow Information
Cash paid for interest $ 201 $ 176
Cash paid for income taxes 568 296
THE DIRECTV GROUP, INC.
SELECTED SEGMENT DATA
(Dollars in Millions)
(Unaudited)
Three Months Ended Nine Months Ended
September 30, September 30,
2008 2007 2008 2007
DIRECTV U.S.
Revenues $ 4,324 $ 3,885 $ 12,569 $ 11,150
Operating profit before depreciation and amortization (1) 1,060 916 3,335 2,847
Operating profit before depreciation and amortization margin (1) 24.5 % 23.6 % 26.5 % 25.5 %
Operating profit $ 532 $ 538 $ 1,842 $ 1,826
Operating profit margin 12.3 % 13.8 % 14.7 % 16.4 %
Depreciation and amortization $ 528 $ 378 $ 1,493 $ 1,021
Capital expenditures 418 608 1,240 1,784
DIRECTV LATIN AMERICA
Revenues $ 658 $ 442 $ 1,811 $ 1,220
Operating profit before depreciation and amortization (1) 208 105 507 280
Operating profit before depreciation and amortization margin (1) 31.6 % 23.8 % 28.0 % 23.0 %
Operating profit $ 142 $ 46 $ 322 $ 103
Operating profit margin 21.6 % 10.4 % 17.8 % 8.4 %
Depreciation and amortization $ 66 $ 59 $ 185 $ 177
Capital expenditures 110 96 322 237
CORPORATE and OTHER
Revenues $ (1 ) $ - $ (1 ) $ -
Operating loss before depreciation and amortization (1) (16 ) (17 ) (51 ) (60 )
Operating loss (16 ) (18 ) (48 ) (60 )
Depreciation and amortization - 1 (3 ) -
Capital expenditures 8 2 10 31
TOTAL
Revenues $ 4,981 $ 4,327 $ 14,379 $ 12,370
Operating profit before depreciation and amortization (1) 1,252 1,004 3,791 3,067
Operating profit before depreciation and amortization margin (1) 25.1 % 23.2 % 26.4 % 24.8 %
Operating profit $ 658 $ 566 $ 2,116 $ 1,869
Operating profit margin 13.2 % 13.1 % 14.7 % 15.1 %
Depreciation and amortization $ 594 $ 438 $ 1,675 $ 1,198
Capital expenditures 536 706 1,572 2,052
(1) See footnote 1 in the text.
DIRECTV HOLDINGS LLC (DIRECTV U.S.)
CONSOLIDATED STATEMENTS OF OPERATIONS
(Dollars in Millions)
(Unaudited)
Three Months Ended Nine Months Ended
September 30, September 30,
2008 2007 2008 2007
Revenues $ 4,324 $ 3,885 $ 12,569 $ 11,150
Operating costs and expenses
Costs of revenues, exclusive of depreciation and amortization expense
Broadcast programming and other 1,841 1,657 5,216 4,653
Subscriber service expenses 296 291 839 852
Broadcast operations expenses 71 56 197 161
Selling, general and administrative expenses, exclusive of
depreciation and amortization expense
Subscriber acquisition costs 565 498 1,602 1,377
Upgrade and retention costs 260 268 724 691
General and administrative expenses 231 199 656 569
Depreciation and amortization expense 528 378 1,493 1,021
Total operating costs and expenses 3,792 3,347 10,727 9,324
Operating profit 532 538 1,842 1,826
Interest income 9 16 31 60
Interest expense (94 ) (56 ) (222 ) (162 )
Other, net 1 1 2 -
Income before income taxes 448 499 1,653 1,724
Income tax expense (182 ) (198 ) (653 ) (682 )
Net income $ 266 $ 301 $ 1,000 $ 1,042
DIRECTV HOLDINGS LLC (DIRECTV U.S.)
CONSOLIDATED BALANCE SHEETS
(Dollars in Millions)
(Unaudited)
September 30, December 31,
ASSETS 2008 2007
Current assets
Cash and cash equivalents $ 1,563 $ 802
Accounts receivable, netof allowances of $44 and $39 1,254 1,387
Inventories 239 187
Deferred income taxes 60 29
Prepaid expenses and other 169 142
Total current assets 3,285 2,547
Satellites, net 2,011 2,030
Property and equipment, net 3,292 3,230
Goodwill 3,188 3,032
Intangible assets, net 959 1,223
Other assets 181 235
Total assets $ 12,916 $ 12,297
LIABILITIES AND OWNER'S EQUITY
Current liabilities
Accounts payable and accrued liabilities $ 2,217 $ 2,548
Unearned subscriber revenues and deferred credits 441 320
Current portion of long-term debt 95 48
Total current liabilities 2,753 2,916
Long-term debt 5,755 3,347
Deferred income taxes 399 336
Other liabilities and deferred credits 825 958
Commitments and contingencies
Owner's equity 3,184 4,740
Total liabilities and owner's equity $ 12,916 $ 12,297
DIRECTV HOLDINGS LLC (DIRECTV U.S.)
CONSOLIDATED STATEMENTS OF CASH FLOWS
(Dollars in Millions)
(Unaudited)
Nine Months Ended
September 30,
2008 2007
Cash Flows From Operating Activities
Net income $ 1,000 $ 1,042
Adjustments to reconcile net income to net cash provided by
operating activities:
Depreciation and amortization expense 1,493 1,021
Amortization of deferred revenues and deferred credits (75 ) (69 )
Deferred income taxes 36 114
Other 41 36
Change in other operating assets and liabilities:
Accounts receivable 139 (21 )
Inventories (35 ) (58 )
Prepaid expenses and other (17 ) (68 )
Accounts payable and accrued liabilities (431 ) (136 )
Unearned subscriber revenue and deferred credits 121 183
Other, net 58 (12 )
Net cash provided by operating activities 2,330 2,032
Cash Flows From Investing Activities
Cash paid for property and equipment (343 ) (476 )
Cash paid for subscriber leased equipment - subscriber acquisitions (432 ) (580 )
Cash paid for subscriber leased equipment - upgrade and retention (373 ) (579 )
Cash paid for satellites (92 ) (149 )
Investment in companies, net of cash acquired (97 ) -
Other 4 (3 )
Net cash used in investing activities (1,333 ) (1,787 )
Cash Flows From Financing Activities
Cash proceeds from debt issuance 2,490 -
Debt issuance costs (19 ) -
Repayment of long-term debt (35 ) (8 )
Repayment of other long-term obligations (79 ) (54 )
Cash dividends to Parent (2,600 ) (700 )
Excess tax benefit from share-based compensation 7 4
Net cash used in financing activities (236 ) (758 )
Net increase (decrease) in cash and cash equivalents 761 (513 )
Cash and cash equivalents at beginning of the period 802 1,356
Cash and cash equivalents at end of the period $ 1,563 $ 843
Supplemental Cash Flow Information
Cash paid for interest $ 175 $ 162
Cash paid for income taxes 585 624
Non-GAAP Financial Measure Reconciliation Schedules
(Unaudited)
The DIRECTV Group
Reconciliation of Operating Profit Before Depreciation and
Amortization to Operating Profit(a)
Three Months Ended Nine Months Ended
September 30, September 30,
2008 2007 2008 2007
(Dollars in Millions)
Operating Profit Before Depreciation and Amortization $ 1,252 $ 1,004 $ 3,791 $ 3,067
Subtract: Depreciation and amortization expense 594 438 1,675 1,198
Operating Profit $ 658 $ 566 $ 2,116 $ 1,869
(a) For a reconciliation of this non-GAAP
financial measure for each of our segments, please see the Notes
to the Consolidated Financial Statements which will be included in
The DIRECTV Group's Quarterly Report on
Form 10-Q for the quarter ended June 30, 2008, which is expected
to be filed with the SEC in August 2008.
The DIRECTV Group
Reconciliation of Cash Flow Before Interest and Taxes(2)
and Free Cash Flow(3) to Net
Cash Provided by Operating Activities
Three Months Ended Nine Months Ended
September 30, September 30,
2008 2007 2008 2007
(Dollars in Millions)
Cash Flow Before Interest and Taxes $ 619 $ 315 $ 1,954 $ 968
Adjustments:
Cash paid for interest (77 ) (63 ) (201 ) (176 )
Interest income 27 25 64 96
Income taxes paid (237 ) (195 ) (568 ) (296 )
Subtotal - Free Cash Flow 332 82 1,249 592
Add Cash Paid For:
Property and equipment 521 669 1,480 1,903
Satellites 15 37 92 149
Net Cash Provided by Operating Activities $ 868 $ 788 $ 2,821 $ 2,644
DIRECTV Latin America
Reconciliation of Cash Flow Before Interest and Taxes(2)
and Free Cash Flow(3) to Net
Cash Provided by Operating Activities
Three Months Ended Nine Months Ended
September 30, September 30,
2008 2007 2008 2007
(Dollars in Millions)
Cash Flow Before Interest and Taxes $ 50 $ 24 $ 218 $ 105
Adjustments:
Cash paid for interest (10 ) (7 ) (29 ) (21 )
Interest income 7 5 18 14
Income taxes paid (35 ) (13 ) (94 ) (24 )
Subtotal - Free Cash Flow 12 9 113 74
Add Cash Paid For:
Property and equipment 110 96 322 237
Net Cash Provided by Operating Activities $ 122 $ 105 $ 435 $ 311
(2) and (3) - See footnotes in the text of this earnings release.
DIRECTV HOLDINGS LLC (DIRECTV U.S.)
Non-GAAP Financial Measure Reconciliation and SAC Calculation
(Unaudited)
Reconciliation of Pre-SAC Margin(b)
to Operating Profit
Three Months Ended Nine Months Ended
September 30, September 30,
2008 2007 2008 2007
(Dollars in Millions)
Operating Profit $ 532 $ 538 $ 1,842 $ 1,826
Adjustments:
Subscriber acquisition costs (expensed) 565 498 1,602 1,377
Depreciation and amortization expense 528 378 1,493 1,021
Cash paid for subscriber leased equipment - upgrade and retention (128 ) (197 ) (373 ) (579 )
Pre-SAC margin(b) $ 1,497 $ 1,217 $ 4,564 $ 3,645
Pre-SAC margin as a percentage of revenue(b) 34.6 % 31.3 % 36.3 % 32.7 %
Reconciliation of Cash Flow Before Interest and Taxes(2)
and Free Cash Flow(3) to Net
Cash Provided by Operating Activities
Three Months Ended Nine Months Ended
September 30, September 30,
2008 2007 2008 2007
(Dollars in Millions)
Cash Flow Before Interest and Taxes $ 598 $ 324 $ 1,819 $ 974
Adjustments:
Cash paid for interest (68 ) (58 ) (175 ) (162 )
Interest income 9 16 31 60
Income taxes paid (178 ) (248 ) (585 ) (624 )
Subtotal - Free Cash Flow 361 34 1,090 248
Add Cash Paid For:
Property and equipment 124 154 343 476
Subscriber leased equipment - subscriber acquisitions 151 220 432 580
Subscriber leased equipment - upgrade and retention 128 197 373 579
Satellites 15 37 92 149
Net Cash Provided by Operating Activities $ 779 $ 642 $ 2,330 $ 2,032
(2) and (3) - See footnotes in the text of this earnings release.
(b) Pre-SAC Margin, which is a financial
measure that is not determined in accordance with accounting
principles generally accepted in the United States of America, or
GAAP, is calculated for DIRECTV U.S. by adding amounts under the
captions "Subscriber acquisition costs"
and "Depreciation and amortization
expense" to "Operating
Profit" from the Consolidated
Statements of Operations and subtracting "Cash paid for subscriber
leased equipment - upgrade and retention" from the Consolidated
Statements of Cash Flows. This financial measure should be used in
conjunction with GAAP financial measures and is not presented as
an alternative measure of operating results, as determined in
accordance with GAAP. The DIRECTV Group and DIRECTV U.S.
management use Pre-SAC Margin to evaluate the profitability of
DIRECTV U.S.' current subscriber base
for the purpose of allocating resources to discretionary
activities such as adding new subscribers, upgrading and retaining
existing subscribers and for capital expenditures. To compensate
for the exclusion of "Subscriber
acquisition costs," management also
uses operating profit and operating profit before depreciation and
amortization expense to measure profitability.
The DIRECTV Group and DIRECTV U.S. believe this measure is useful
to investors, along with GAAP measures (such as revenues,
operating profit and net income), to compare DIRECTV U.S.'
operating performance to other communications, entertainment and
media companies.The DIRECTV Group and DIRECTV U.S. believe that
investors also use current and projected Pre-SAC Margin to
determine the ability of DIRECTV U.S.'
current and projected subscriber base to fund discretionary
spending and to determine the financial returns for subscriber
additions.
SAC Calculation
Three Months Ended Nine Months Ended
September 30, September 30,
2008 2007 2008 2007
(Dollars in Millions, Except SAC Amounts)
Subscriber acquisition costs (expensed) $ 565 $ 498 $ 1,602 $ 1,377
Cash paid for subscriber leased equipment - subscriber acquisitions 151 220 432 580
Total acquisition costs $ 716 $ 718 $ 2,034 $ 1,957
Gross subscriber additions (000's) 1,002 1,032 2,860 2,861
Average subscriber acquisition costs-per subscriber (SAC) $ 715 $ 696 $ 711 $ 684
SOURCE: The DIRECTV Group
The DIRECTV Group, Inc.
Media Contact: Darris Gringeri, 212-462-5136
Investor Relations: 310-964-0808
Copyright Business Wire 2008
News Provided by COMTEX
Former member 208119
Last reply · posted in SiriusXM Satellite Radio
My year was almost up and we got the new bill for a year of service for $ 360.00 insane sat radio is becoming like cable!!! i logged into my acct and hopped onto chat and told the rep that i wanted to cancel. she understood my concern and went quiet for a few minutes. i figured that she was canceling my service. she comes back and said that she seen that i have been a sub since 07 and then offers me the same package for a year for 120.00 with taxes and fee's!!! i grabbed it. after almost having a stroke :biggrin
237 Replies · 10976 views
B
What i noticed with my last renewal XM is now billing me $4.99 monthly instead of one time yearly payment.
Jimbo
What i noticed with my last renewal XM is now billing me $.99 monthly instead of one time yearly payment.
Did you accidentally get on the wrong plan ?
I still do the once a year plans.
B
Did you accidentally get on the wrong plan ?
I still do the once a year plans.
I have to think maybe more people dont keep track of the monthly XM bill. Every time i renew i put a reminder on my calendar week before its time to renew. My wife told me the other day not to renew her and then i told her you are not going to be able to listen to XM at home. Then she changed her mind...!!
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TRG
TRG
I have to think maybe more people dont keep track of the monthly XM bill. Every time i renew i put a reminder on my calendar week before its time to renew. My wife told me the other day not to renew her and then i told her you are not going to be able to listen to XM at home. Then she changed her mind...!!
I get an e-mail every month reminding me that X amount will be charged to my credit card. If I see it go up I get on chat or pick up the phone. But I also remember that my year is up in December.
B
I get an e-mail every month reminding me that X amount will be charged to my credit card. If I see it go up I get on chat or pick up the phone. But I also remember that my year is up in December.
yea i don't understand WHY, like you I get a notice each month. Mine is also up in December.
Jimbo
yea i don't understand WHY, like you I get a notice each month. Mine is also up in December.
You get an email every month to let you know they are billing you for the next month.
Foxbat
Mrs. Foxbat reminded me it's that time of the year to do the Cancel Tango💃🏽

The A.I. agent appears to be better than in the past. It got to the acceptable price quicker than previous years, no human operator involved. $5/mo and I still have over $50 in SiriusXM credit from my FordPartner benefits.
Scott Greczkowski
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne


Get it?


An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....
68527 Replies · 2672582 views
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dishstaller
Can't You See - Marshall Tucker Band
sdfntx
See You in September - The Happenings
long_time_Dish
You Look Like You Love Me - Ella Langley
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dishstaller
See Me Feel Me - The Who
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long_time_Dish
Take It Easy On Me - Little River Band
Peter Parker
Supporting Founder Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in DISH Network Support Forum
No idea what improvements might be involved.
19 Replies · 803 views
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bookworm370
Has anyone noticed an FF stutter with 713? I used to be able to hit FF a few times and skip smoothly. After 713 (maybe 712), when I skip forward, there is a definite stutter for as many times as I have pressed FF.

Can anyone check on this and report back? Recorded programs and then press skip forward a few times to see if it's smooth? Normally, it just jumps to the right place after the skips.
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N
I'm getting fabulous picture on Ch. 148 4k, but zero audio with H713. This is with a recorded show (Notre Dame game). Anyone else have this? Audio is fine on every other channel.
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R
Has anyone noticed an FF stutter with 713? I used to be able to hit FF a few times and skip smoothly. After 713 (maybe 712), when I skip forward, there is a definite stutter for as many times as I have pressed FF.

Can anyone check on this and report back? Recorded programs and then press skip forward a few times to see if it's smooth? Normally, it just jumps to the right place after the skips.
My wife mentioned that her remote is acting strange this morning. She hit FF and it went to 15x FF.
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Bobby
I'm getting fabulous picture on Ch. 148 4k, but zero audio with H713. This is with a recorded show (Notre Dame game). Anyone else have this? Audio is fine on every other channel.
This has been an ongoing issue. A fix is coming, probably in the next software version.
Foxbat
Wife bought me a t-shirt that has "have you tried turning it off and on again?"
Here's the one I need:
1792365258110.webp
dishstaller
Here's the one I need:
Just ordered one....that's great.
dfergie
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU!
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
Stumbled across this ... http://www.gaspricewatch.com/USGas_ZipSearch.asp
I found no local prices, although it did show stations at my location...
Added these to this post...
USA National Gas Temperature Map
State By State Gasoline Taxes
Gas Buddy

Ethanol Free Stations

5552 Replies · 460613 views
Bobby
Regular$5.999​
Premium$6.399​
Diesel$7.999​
at Costco, Rohnert Park.​
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harshness
I wonder if California is getting into the Winter formula.
dishstaller
Regular$5.999​
Premium$6.399​
Odd that out there, Prem is only 40 cents higher. Here it's a full dollar more.

Last night it was about $4.17 gas, $6,19 diesel.
harshness
Odd that out there, Prem is only 40 cents higher. Here it's a full dollar more.
On the West Coast, a 40-cent differential is common. It used to be 30 cents before the prices rose above $3.

A "full dollar more" sounds like it may be boat gas (non-alcoholic), which is a whole different discussion.
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Foxbat
Here in Indiana, the difference between Regular and Premium is usually a dollar, but some charge even more:
1792374072446.webp
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dishstaller
A "full dollar more" sounds like it may be boat gas (non-alcoholic),
Both non-ethanol and prem run about the same....buck more. When we were up in TN it was a buck more up there as well.
jokeworm
Last reply · posted in What's Cooking?
Ok, I'm bored .... actually - to be more precise - I'm bored of eating the same rotation of 9 or 10 meals that are currently my "go-to" meals. My wife works the long hours - I work from home as and when i feel like it ... which means i generally do most of the cooking ... and so by default - i also make out the shopping list ...

We cook at home 5 or even 6 nights a week - but we always seem to fall back on the same old tried and tested "quick and easy but tastes ok" meals. Week in week out.

Pot Roast - mash and Peas.
Spaghetti
Chicken Pasta in cheese sauce.
Curry & rice
(these are some of mine)

Now it's not that I'm not adventurous in the kitchen ... I'll try anything once or twice ... but we all do it. Unless your name is Martha Stewart or Rachel Ray .. we all eventually fall back on our 8-10 favorite "meals"

So i thought - if we shared some of our own go-to meals with each other ... we might be able to add a few "new" ones to our own arsenal of meals.

So again - I ask you ...

What's for dinner tonight ?

Please give me something new to add to my rotation ... its our weekly shop tomorrow - so i want to pull together a few idea's and try and eat a meal each day next week that I've never had before .. or at least something that is not on my current "go-to" meal plan.

What meal do you always seem to fall back on in your house ? Maybe its something that I've never tried or not had in a while. I need inspiration !! I've got a blank shopping list in front of me - and nothing sounds good .. HELP !
4332 Replies · 331150 views
TRG
TRG
Beef and vegetable stew with buttermilk biscuits. Water.
It seemed appropriate on an unusually cold and wet evening in New Mexico.
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Bobby
Chili Cheesebugers, Tater Tots.
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TRG
TRG
I made shrimp parmesan with spaghetti and a salad.
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S
venison lasagna
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dishstaller
Smoked some salmon on the grill while enjoying some Blue Moon beer. Kinda cool tonight so I fired up the heaters. Here in FL, we fire up heaters once the temps get below 60 :cool As for the salmon, I seared them first, then flipped them off to the side not over the coals and brushed on some lemon pepper marinade followed by some salmon seasoning. Threw some hickory chips on the coals and then closed the vents to about 10% airflow. Yum.
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osu1991
Pub Member / Supporter
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club

The number-one US state for EV growth, according to the June 22 Yardi report?
Oklahoma.


:eek


It has no ZEV mandates and "minimal" incentives, Yardi says, but also has cheap electricity, high multi-car household rates (so, for example, a non-Lightning Ford F-150 pulls their trailers), and a consumer base willing to switch.
112 Replies · 901 views
navychop
Servant's problem.
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meStevo

Never realized that Tesla is losing to BYD at manufacturing too, which IMO is Tesla's biggest accomplishment and area of innovation. Nice writeup about the state of play and how we got here though. I have no faith that we're moving any productive direction though sadly, most changes and efforts feel reactionary rather than rooted in making use of the time being bought by tariffs, with few exceptions.

So: how are the cars so cheap, and what is being cut to get there? The best public accounting comes from the Rhodium Group, which compared BYD, Geely, and Leapmotor against Tesla's Chinese operation, a fair comparison because it removes labor costs and shipping from the equation entirely. Their estimate is that BYD builds a car for about $4,700 less than Tesla builds a Model 3 in Shanghai, roughly 15 percent of the Model 3's price. The breakdown is the interesting part. Direct government grants account for about $292 per vehicle, which is 5 percent of the gap. The biggest single factor is vertical integration: BYD makes about 80 percent of its top-tier components in-house, against 37 percent for Tesla, and that eliminates roughly $2,369 per vehicle in supplier markups. Lower overhead, meaning cheaper engineering talent and administrative cost spread across enormous volume, accounts for another $1,719. And BYD pays its suppliers on 155-day terms, against Tesla's 60, which is worth about $214 per car in float. When people say the Chinese advantage is subsidies, the per-vehicle number says otherwise. When people say it is slave wages, the Tesla Shanghai comparison says otherwise too. The advantage is mostly that BYD decided, twenty years ago, to make its own batteries, its own motors, its own power electronics, and its own semiconductors, and Western automakers decided the opposite.​
harshness
The EV company to watch out for is SAIC. They seem likely to take over Government Motors at some point.

GM originally struck a JV deal with SAIC to gain access to China. Now SAIC has taken China back with the substantial library of technology GM shared and they're looking to export to Mexico, South America, the Middle East, and Asia-Pacific.
osu1991
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TWiT Tech Podcast Network
· posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network
0 Replies · 17 views
Ham Radio 2.0
· posted in Ham Radio 2.0
0 Replies · 13 views
Ramy
Supporting Founder
Last reply · posted in The Sports Section
Really excited for this season with Kentucky having a new coach and some really exciting recruits. Probably won't last long, but here's hoping this season is great.
148 Replies · 1741 views
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Foxbat
They ought to have fun with this… :devilish
osu1991
They ought to have fun with this… :devilish
Was thinking same thing. It should be a good week for sec shorts and roll call
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R
A lot of upsets yesterday, but my LSU Tigers won.
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Foxbat
Best fan sign I saw during the ND-BYU game: "Bear ate your Lucky Charms!" (Bear being the Cougars' QB). I was going to suggest, "Have you or your team been involved in a Carr crash?"
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meStevo
Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
A continuation of a thread from the pub, just general discussion of AI.

Brief 60 minute clip about next gem autonomous fighters - not remote controlled, but rather collaborating with controllers and aircraft in the theater.


View: https://youtu.be/DRm0mbp_n1k


We've literally got a movie already about this ;)


View: https://youtu.be/a2PW7a9ViDc
67 Replies · 1145 views
meStevo
Agreed, it mostly regurgitates known solutions. That's the point. Nobody needs an innovative fix for a driver error or a creative way to format a report. Let it handle the solved problems so people can spend their time on the ones that aren't.
harshness
Agreed, it mostly regurgitates known solutions. That's the point.
That's the point at which innovation ends, and there's no longer any point to software engineering other than swatting bugs that result from misapplication.
meStevo
That's the point at which innovation ends, and there's no longer any point to software engineering other than swatting bugs that result from misapplication.

Addressed by what you didn't quote. This cycle is as old as computing: compilers, libraries, frameworks each automated the tedious part, and the human work moved up a level. Innovation didn't end; it shifted. And people still make new compilers, libraries or frameworks.

Nobody's forced to hand anything off. Anyone who wants to keep doing it by hand still can, and people who couldn't do it at all now can.
harshness
... and people who couldn't do it at all now can.
Misapplication isn't something that the casual coder can identify. They can only discover, the hard way, that it doesn't work at some point.
meStevo
Misapplication isn't something that the casual coder can identify. They can only discover, the hard way, that it doesn't work at some point.
You're not wrong, but that's part of learning. Whether from others or our own mistakes, we've all learned that lesson one way or another.
harshness
Whether from others or our own mistakes, we've all learned that lesson one way or another.
I'm not sure that the school of hard knocks is the quickest or surest education to find your way.

There are many examples in the headlines of people getting burned multiple times and not wavering in their pursuit of stupidity.
meStevo
I'm not sure that the school of hard knocks is the quickest or surest education to find your way.

Good thing not everyone will have to learn the hard way then. The same tools can explain why something broke.

There are many examples in the headlines of people getting burned multiple times and not wavering in their pursuit of stupidity.

This is true of literally anything, though.

Happy to agree to disagree, but I'm already enjoying the dividends personally and helping others at work and at home do the same.
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dishstaller
Been reading this thread but not commenting much, primarily because there is so much "news" out there on this topic and it is hard to tell what is real and what is theater.
My biggest problem with AI is that these agents are taught...not necessarily programmed but taught. Well, there's an old saying "garbage in/garbage out". I remember a Joe Rogan show a while back when he had Elon Musk on and they talked about AI and Elon said one of the AIs (can't remember which one, sorry) was asked which was worse, Thermonuclear War or mis-gendering Kaitlyn Jenner and it came back with the answer that mis-gendering was worse. Now forget the politics involved with all the gender stuff we have been subjected to the past few years.....to say that mis-gendering is worse than the killing of hundreds of millions, perhaps billions of human beings.....Kaitlyn Jenner included.....is simply insane not to mention incredibly dangerous.
meStevo
Been reading this thread but not commenting much, primarily because there is so much "news" out there on this topic and it is hard to tell what is real and what is theater.
My biggest problem with AI is that these agents are taught...not necessarily programmed but taught. Well, there's an old saying "garbage in/garbage out". I remember a Joe Rogan show a while back when he had Elon Musk on and they talked about AI and Elon said one of the AIs (can't remember which one, sorry) was asked which was worse, Thermonuclear War or mis-gendering Kaitlyn Jenner and it came back with the answer that mis-gendering was worse. Now forget the politics involved with all the gender stuff we have been subjected to the past few years.....to say that mis-gendering is worse than the killing of hundreds of millions, perhaps billions of human beings.....Kaitlyn Jenner included.....is simply insane not to mention incredibly dangerous.

Agents need appropriate context to make what would be understood as the correct read in a situation like that, and that Gemini answer was a clear miss on that front.

That said, we've also seen Musk (and/or his team) put his thumb on the scale (or just release a very poor product) with his own deployed AI since:


In the end, it's all a tool. Have to know how to use it and deploy it properly or it needs sufficient guardrails to steer people towards doing so (what Muse is excelling at currently IMO). I'm routinely interacting with several agents a day operating various processes locally and in services I use, and there are numerous others silently spun up to perform actions or satisfy requests from my prompts.

Related to earlier discussion in the thread on leveraging local inference: this kind of analysis happening behind the scenes is something everyone will have built into Windows, IMO. Most people won't see all of this, just the results, unless they want to dig into how the fix was chosen. Stuff like this will be standard as agents get local system access baked in, and more of the inference itself moves on-device.

1792355686329.webp
T
Good thing not everyone will have to learn the hard way then. The same tools can explain why something broke.



This is true of literally anything, though.

Happy to agree to disagree, but I'm already enjoying the dividends personally and helping others at work and at home do the same.
You invested in datacenters?
meStevo
You invested in datacenters?


Though, I do have stocks in my portfolio that benefit from data centers.