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GaryPen said:

That's just crazy talk!

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Which is, that they not release new software until they fix things, or that Dish will ever fix their receivers?

tonyp56 said:

I understand your point, but, which bugs you the most, that it takes so long for them to fix something, or that they release "new" software often, but you don't see a difference in what you experience?

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Well from what I can tell they have a list of bugs (long in nature) and they have prioritized them and continue to do it as new bugs are introduced and others are squashed. If a bug is taking a long time to fix, I assume one of the three possible situations.

1) It is considered minor and low on the priority list.
2) It is considered moderate, but is a nasty one to fix.
3) It is considered major, but cannot be reproduced in the lab or is a major architectual nightmare to fix.

As to what bugs me more.. I would have to say length of time to fix something because i am impatient. And if a particular bug has a high reoccurance rate and I hit it a lot then I am more annoyed about it. I have been with the acquiring sat bug on the 6000 and 811 for about 4 years. My guess is it falls into one of the three above catagories or it would have been fixed.

Also, Sometimes a software fix will be pushed out for one specific reason. on the last release my guess was that some people were not getting channels they were suppose to. Since there are contractual obligations, my guess is that is why it was pushed out. The other rumored fixes were what one would call one line wonders with minimal risk. My guess is the next release will be more comprehensive.

tonyp56 said:

Same as above, yes, waiting a long time to get something fixed isn't good, but wouldn't having several issue's fixed be worth the wait! Point 2, I am not asking for "all customer related bugs to be fixed" I am only asking that they try to take care of as many things as they can before releasing their software. Point 3, true, but isn't this were beta testers come in. True even with real beta testers there will still be things that slip through the cracks, but will they be as many or as bad. Why is it Dish uses their paying customers as beta testers? But like I said, even with beta testers their will still be bugs, in other words I am not refuting that.

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My experience with Beta programs has not been good. Very poor feedback. I wrote post a while back on how I felt Dish could improve software quality and it centered around These forums for Beta feedback. I even offered to be the 811 liason. But I would not do something unless there was something given back to the bleading edge folk in terms of release notes and more input into the issues and more disclosure on the problems. I really would like to know the root cause of the acquiring signal issue.

We might think ourself as Beta testers, but to Dish we are not. My understand there is a Beta program. Just does not work like it should. (Someone correct me if I am wrong). Dish however has a different release model than D*. Model.. Get software out earlier and provided a quicker fix cycle. This is not an uncommon model. They really need better Beta Feedback.

tonyp56 said:

The difference that I saw between Dish and DTV as far as lockups, bugs, etc. was like day and night. True everyone can see different issues, but it was like the difference between DOS 5.0 and Windows 95 to me. (yes that extreme, when you take the guide, menus, and just general problems, granted there was some things that my 301's had that none of my DTV receivers had like caller ID, Dish Home, etc. It's the fact that the features that DTV's receivers had worked more reliabaly)

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To me, besides the UI candy coating, I did not see a lot of difference in DOS 5.0 and Windows 95. Your opinion is generally echoed by D* subs that have moved to Dish. I agree that Dish needs to improve their quality of the software on initial release and minimize reqression type bugs on subsequent releases. No argument here.

tonyp56 said:

I don't take it the wrong way, I was just trying to clarify my own POV, and I do understand how it is software isn't always perfect, and how you can't have a 100% bug free piece of software, it's just the way Dish does their SW releases, and how it seems that their receivers have more bugs than others. Perhaps I should have worded my post better, but that was the point I was trying to make, not to say no one else can have a different POV. I just felt that you didn't understand or I didn't fully convey my POV.
and vice-versa

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I fully understand your point of few and can read your frustration. I am not that far from your point of few at all. However, when I see a post like your intial one, I feel the need to try and clarify some of the issues software development has. Some of the trade offs they make and offer up where I feel the issues are in terms of Dish's reliability problems.

Dish needs to improve in this area. However, being in an environment where the same challanges are currently happening, change comes slowly. Lets hope they move towards the light.

Let's be pragmatic here. If Dish wait until all the bugs are fixed before releasing the next rev, there won't be another rev.

The 811 is now almost at the stage of maturity that it should have been prior to its release in 2003. It has been a disappointing journey. What we need to be concerned about is if Dish bring out a newer model (8xx or whatever) and lose interest in fixing the 811.

With rev 280, I still get black screen lockups, inconsistent channel recall from OTA to satellite, no program information for OTA's, unreliable locking to digital OTA's, mediocre analog OTA quality, yadadadada. At least some of these can be fixed in software, I hope. Some problems appear to be carryovers from the 6000, which suggests those problems are in the architecture of the design.

Any problem that locks up the 811 and necessitates a reboot should be registered as a top category problem and fixed within days or weeks, not 12 months and waiting

I wish I were part of the 811 beta program, assuming there is one. They need to hear someone give them h*ll and motivate them to fix this d*mn cr*p!!!!

keith said:

I wish I were part of the 811 beta program, assuming there is one.

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You know what happens when you assume!

GaryPen said:

You know what happens when you assume!

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In the early days of the 811, I asked Dish if I could join the beta program. They told me they had it covered! (but never admitted they did or did not have a beta program). Back then, I hadn't been fully exposed to the future circus of 811 software revisions. I should have asked to be a part of the alpha program. Beta is far too kind.

It is astonishing that the 811 software quality is so poor. Hopefully Dish never go into the pacemaker business.