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J
Last reply · posted in DISH Network Support Forum
So Sunday I call DN to set up appointment to have dish installed to get Cinti. locals in HD. While on hold, we lose our SD locals. When the gal comes back she tells me that was necessary in order to put in the work order. My locals come back on in a few minutes. Then some one from the installers call and say they don't understand the work order and what did we want. Explained dish to get locals in HD. Next day notice my bill is higher. Call and they say because I added locals to my package. Tell them no, already had locals. Then they tell me I changed my package. No, tell them I didn't. Then they tell me I removed the DVR advantage. Told them no I didn't. Get that taken care of. Then ask what is being installed Friday. As the installers have told me adding a Dish 500 but DN tells me replacing with new dish. Again DN tells me a new 20" dish, the 1000.2. I tell them I already have a Dish 1000 and I need a dish to get the 77orbit. They still tell me I get a new dish. I ask if I can have the 1000.4 and she says yes if the technicians deems it necessary.
So I jot off an email to DN telling them how unhappy I am with their cs and how they can't give me a straight answer and after 12 years as a customer, I would like the Dish 1000.4 since it is more practical where I live with the current dish pointing at trees that need to be cut down every few years at hundreds of dollars to me.
So today I get a call from the installer. DN had sent them my email. So they get authorization to install the Eastern arc. Dish 1000.4. Come home from work to no local channels. This turns into a 1 1/2 hour call, 6 csr, finally to the executive office. First person rudely tells me I can't have my locals with an open work order, I tell them not acceptable and get my locals back on. This then deletes my work order. I ask for a supervisor and am sent to a voice mail. Call back. Again told my work order was deleted and they would have to remove my locals to generate a new work order and then could not guarantee the work to be done the day I had requested. Go to another supervisor who tried to solve my problem but disconnects me in the process. Call back again. They are not allowed to call a customer if they disconnect you! Ok, so tell the story again and again told I have to lose my locals to get a work order in. Then I am told the work order was closed today because the tech came out today and determined a tree was blocking the LOS. I informed them no tech came out today, the lost signal was a few months ago and we cut down trees to get the signal back. Go to a supervisor again who "understands my frustration". Thanks, but fix the problem. So he transfers me to executive office. Lose locals again, generate work order, authorized Dish 1000.4 at no cost with no commitment. And a note to say they better not mess with my bill. He tells me my locals will be back on in a few minutes, Doesn't happen. Transfers me to tech support. They have to read all the notes, ask all my info for the 6th time. Finally get my locals but told I may lose them again between now and the work date. There has to be a better way to handle this upgrade!
I call the installers and they tell me 10 work orders have been submitted today. I tell them more may come tonight or tomorrow! So if you already have SD locals and want to upgrade them to HD, be prepared for a battle. Or be willing to lose your SD locals until they come out and install the needed dish.
Tonight they sent me an email saying I refused to have a new work order made. So not only are the csr incompetant, they are liars.
Charlie got an email from me last night. When this is all settled, he will be hearing from me again! :mad:
51 Replies · 8202 views
V
My call for the 1000.4 install: Dish will upgrade for free with a 24 mos. committment. $59.95 without extension of contract. This is for existing customers. Always a surprise as to what you will hear. For now, I will be content with viewing my local HD's with my rooftop antenna. Just not ready to commit to 2 more years. But IMO, same experiences with Direct. I've dealt with them for my mother's and my son's install. Sad, but tis our world today.
W
I posted above about having an appointment to have a wing dish installed and thought I'd come back with the result.

The installer came within the time that Dish said he would come, installed the wing dish at no cost and no commitment. Works great. I also decided a few days later to swap out the 311 with a vip211 and Dish charged me $25 with a 2-year commitment. In doing so they gave me $10 off my bill each month for the next 12 months. Nice.

So many times we hear about the bad CRs or botched jobs I thought I'd report about something that went right with good customer service.
V
1000.4 installation charge

My call for the 1000.4 install: Dish will upgrade for free with a 24 mos. committment. $59.95 without extension of contract. This is for existing customers. Always a surprise as to what you will hear. For now, I will be content with viewing my local HD's with my rooftop antenna. Just not ready to commit to 2 more years. But IMO, same experiences with Direct. I've dealt with them for my mother's and my son's install. Sad, but tis our world today.

Called back today. An unbelievable wonderful experience. A knowledgable tech support! The 1000.4 comes Monday with no charge, no new committment! I pray the install goes well also.;)
J
So many times we hear about the bad CRs or botched jobs I thought I'd report about something that went right with good customer service.

I am glad you are happy with Dish. My nightmare STILL continues. DN had to return to realign the 1000.4 since it was not locking in on the 61.5 signal. Date was set. Date came and went with no installer showing up. Called DN and discovered the work order never went through. Had another date set. Suppose to come between noon and 5 pm. By 5:45 I called DN and spoke with a supervisor. He gave me a $25 credit and guaranteed the tech would be there that day. Tech did show up and discovered the first installer had not tightened it down enough. Didn't even use all the nuts and bolts required.
Back in Feb. I was promised a $10 a month credit for 5 months. I have yet to receive it. Today I checked my bill online. Not only had the credit not been applied again, but I was now being charged a $7 lease fee. Called and went through the voice prompsts. Finally connected to talk to a human being and was disconnected. Went through it again and finally spoke to a billing rep. Apparently the receiver I have not used and was deactivated 2 years ago is still on their records. So someone caught it and started charging me the lease fee. That was credited (I hope) and again I have been promised the $10 a month credit will show up on the next bill.
I have paperless billing and auto payment. The online bill is never accurate. I am really getting tired of having to call Dish every month to straighten out and figure out my bill. :mad:
J
Called back today. An unbelievable wonderful experience. A knowledgable tech support! The 1000.4 comes Monday with no charge, no new committment! I pray the install goes well also.;)
Hope you got the CSR name and ID number. Check your bill. CSR promises mean nothing!
V
Hope you got the CSR name and ID number. Check your bill. CSR promises mean nothing!

First info I asked for! Trust me, I have dealt with them long enough to know. I suggest an email to mailto:Matt.Kliewer@echostar.com. Detail your situation and ask for compensation. Has worked for me in the past. Good luck!
J
First info I asked for! Trust me, I have dealt with them long enough to know. I suggest an email to mailto:Matt.Kliewer@echostar.com. Detail your situation and ask for compensation. Has worked for me in the past. Good luck!
Thanks for the name. I may just send him a note. I was ready to forgive and forget, but never getting my promised credit is ticking me off. :mad: Having to call them every month and waste my time isn't making me very happy either.
Scott Greczkowski
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne


Get it?


An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....
68688 Replies · 2681757 views
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long_time_Dish
Lonely Wind - Kansas
dishstaller
Lonely is the Night - Billy Squier
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long_time_Dish
Tender Is The Night - Jackson Browne
H
THE NIGHT Chicago Died-Paper Lace
ClarkGable
(I Just) Died In Your Arms - Cutting Crew
dishstaller
Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
This should hit a lot of folks with a dose of reality. I can only imagine how much more common this will get as AI progresses.

I read several stories on this and most are clear as mud. They say a lot of the stolen bitcoin has been "locked out" and that everyone will be made financially whole. I guess time will tell if either of these statements are actually true.

12 Replies · 158 views
Juan
Where would you spend 6.3 billion in crypto without anyone noticing?..In today's digital world most countries are watching purchases over 10k
dishstaller
Where would you spend 6.3 billion in crypto without anyone noticing?
They say it was North Korea so they'll probably just use it to buy things they need....oil, food, etc from nations and entities who don't care where the money comes from and since it is BTC...it can be spent anywhere with no blowback.
Juan
They say it was North Korea so they'll probably just use it to buy things they need....oil, food, etc from nations and entities who don't care where the money comes from and since it is BTC...it can be spent anywhere with no blowback.
Someone using AI would be able to see the purchase...plus if you were to buy a couple billion barrels of oil or any other commodity..someone would notice..or if you bought your own country
T
How does it have such billions simply "on hand" to replace stolen billions?
harshness
How does it have such billions simply "on hand" to replace stolen billions?
You "print" it, of course. That's part of the magic of cryptocurrency.
meStevo
They say it was North Korea so they'll probably just use it to buy things they need....oil, food, etc from nations and entities who don't care where the money comes from and since it is BTC...it can be spent anywhere with no blowback.
North Korea can't pay for oil with BTC. The money has to be laundered and cashed out first. Analytics firms can trace it on the public blockchain, and exchanges (including Binance) have frozen money traced back to prior hacks when it showed up. Much of it may still gets through eventually. It's just slow and lossy, not "spend anywhere."

Someone using AI would be able to see the purchase...plus if you were to buy a couple billion barrels of oil or any other commodity..someone would notice..or if you bought your own country

It can be traced, the rest of this is pretty much your usual nonsense though.

How does it have such billions simply "on hand" to replace stolen billions?

Binance has had an insurance fund since 2018, funded by 10% of trading fees. It's around $1.2B, and Binance says it'll cover the rest from company money. As the world's largest exchange, it makes a lot in fees. On top of that, the ~$3B in frozen stablecoins can be reissued by Tether/Circle, so the actual hole is smaller than the headline.

You "print" it, of course. That's part of the magic of cryptocurrency.

Nobody can print bitcoin, Binance included. Supply is fixed by the protocol. The only thing in this story that can be frozen and reissued is stablecoins, because they have a company behind them.
ewindowman
Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in DISH Network Support Forum
Looks like dish is Bankrupt. Filling tomorrow Tuesday June 30th
429 Replies · 14409 views
ewindowman
Correct me if I'm wrong but Dish borrowed lots of money to start a wireless company that was most likely doomed from the beginning. They bought spectrum at any cost to acquire enough bandwidth to achieve their goal. They signed leases and bought equipment and borrowed more money. They held onto the spectrum as long as possible. They then sold most of it to different companies and made a lot of money. Then they started to screw the companies that were installing and leasing the equipment and cell towers. Now they are going to claim bankruptcy under the Dish Network part of Echo Star while they have billions of dollars. So Dish basically took everyone's money that was involved in the financial part of this transaction made a huge profit is screwing everyone over from the banks to the little guy working on the towers and infrastructure.
Bruce
News about the tower's dispute-

comfortably_numb
News about the tower's dispute-


So does this mean the churches and businesses that Dish owes back payments to are going to get paid now?
nelson61
"
They note that the Dish Wireless radios at issue support the 2GHz and 800MHz spectrum SpaceX is acquiring from EchoStar and Grain.

"Buying compatible equipment already installed on towers could give SpaceX a head start on its wireless terrestrial network build and throw a big bucket of cold water on Verizon's four-to-six-year timeline and $300-$500 billion estimate for SpaceX's buildout," said the analysts."
S
Correct me if I'm wrong but Dish borrowed lots of money to start a wireless company that was most likely doomed from the beginning. They bought spectrum at any cost to acquire enough bandwidth to achieve their goal. They signed leases and bought equipment and borrowed more money. They held onto the spectrum as long as possible. They then sold most of it to different companies and made a lot of money. Then they started to screw the companies that were installing and leasing the equipment and cell towers. Now they are going to claim bankruptcy under the Dish Network part of Echo Star while they have billions of dollars. So Dish basically took everyone's money that was involved in the financial part of this transaction made a huge profit is screwing everyone over from the banks to the little guy working on the towers and infrastructure.
i heard charlie went to dubai begging for money. but he didn't get none... that should have raised red flags.
Former member 209992
Last reply · posted in SatelliteGuys Support Center
For some reason, the satelliteguys.us site is loading a lot slower than usual on both Chrome on my Asus laptop and Safari on my iPhone.
I'm also seeing longer appearances of the blue bar at the top and the "3 blue bars" loading symbol.
Is anyone else also having the same problem? Thanks in advance.
555 Replies · 19981 views
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Foxbat
IMG_1560.webp
A.I. - Be careful what you wish for…
T
6:43p Central was dumped off the site, then when I got back on could not reply to post. Down for several minutes.
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Scott Greczkowski
6:43p Central was dumped off the site, then when I got back on could not reply to post. Down for several minutes.
Yeah... that was me...

I did another security update and it required me to reboot the server.

I also did a patch for something else and accidently put two ;'s in the config file so when the server rebooted it wouldn't restart a service because of the extra ; in the config file.

And of course as I did it my step dad called me slowing me down in figuring it out.

That was a Scott mistake. Sorry about that.
navychop
OFF WITH YOUR HEAD!

Aww- nevermind.

;)
S
been blazing fast here :)
Ramy
Supporting Founder
Last reply · posted in The Sports Section
Really excited for this season with Kentucky having a new coach and some really exciting recruits. Probably won't last long, but here's hoping this season is great.
177 Replies · 2931 views
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Y
You mean other than Miami being in the final last year... and Indiana being the only bye team to win a game?
Jimbo
You mean other than Miami being in the final last year... and Indiana being the only bye team to win a game?
No, I was actually referring to outside of the Top 8, but should have been Top 12 ...

I guess I should have looked at the bracket from last year first ...

I'm more thinking about them trying to expect a 15 to beat a 5 seed or there abouts .
Ronnie-
I'm more thinking about them trying to expect a 15 to beat a 5 seed or there abouts .
I mean you get upsets all the time.

Just a couple of weeks ago. Unranked Florida knocked off number 7 texas. Unranked Auburn beat number 1 Georgia.

This week unranked Cincinnati beat number 8 texas Tech. Unranked UCF beat number 2 BYU.

No reason to think similar upsets wont happen in the playoffs where a low seed can upset a higher one.
Jimbo
I mean you get upsets all the time.

Just a couple of weeks ago. Unranked Florida knocked off number 7 texas. Unranked Auburn beat number 1 Georgia.

This week unranked Cincinnati beat number 8 texas Tech. Unranked UCF beat number 2 BYU.

No reason to think similar upsets wont happen in the playoffs where a low seed can upset a higher one.
Correct, you Do get upsets from time to time ....however .
You Don't get teams UPSETTING teams for 5 weeks in a row.

They are trying to make this Basketball and its a far cry from the way that is played.

How long till they go to 32 teams ? Then they will say, well, the NFL is 32 teams, we can make more money that way .... except the NFL is 32 teams, that are a set number of teams and divisions, you don't have that in College ... oh but they will try.

They would have to choose what teams they would want in and thats it.
Hopefully that NEVER happens.

I can see the NCAA going away and the CFP taking that portion over and a Collective Bargaining agreement coming in the not to distant future.
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Ronnie-
Correct, you Do get upsets from time to time
Yes. As shown in a few posts now.


You Don't get teams UPSETTING teams for 5 weeks in a row.

.
But that wasn't what your stated argument was though.


I mean if you drag it out, no team even a favorite is gonna win every game 20 weeks in a row.


With the parity in college football now, who knows who can beat anyone at any given time?

This season and last have shown it might not be the ones we think that might win it all that will win it all.
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Jimbo
Yes. As shown in a few posts now.



But that wasn't what your stated argument was though.


I mean if you drag it out, no team even a favorite is gonna win every game 20 weeks in a row.


With the parity in college football now, who knows who can beat anyone at any given time?

This season and last have shown it might not be the ones we think that might win it all that will win it all.
No, no ... if you want to make the playoffs, you want to Win it ... If you want to Win it, you need to Win 4-5 games in a row against Top 10 teams for the most part, theres a Possibility you'd play someone out side of the Top 10, but not much.

The Playoffs is a 4-5 game Win or Go Home.
osu1991
:mad:..I hate playing in Ames.
Jimbo
:mad:..I hate playing in Ames.
I hate playing in LA ... :oldmad
Buckeyes had 2 weeks off and came out and looked absolutely terrible ... broke in a new Freshman Qb, but that wasn't the worst part ... undiscipline play, at last count they had 10 penalties.
Freshman in the end of the game trying to play catch up, had a lot of Over throws ... Bucks lose ...

#1 Miami struggled but pulled away in the end beating North Carolina by 3 ...

Tuesday the CFP brings out thier Playoff Top 12 again ... Buckeyes should drop from #2 to about #22 (they won't) had they had thier Starting QB, it would have been a different game ...

They could lose the rest of thier games at this point.
osu1991
Pub Member / Supporter
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
:mad::mad::mad::mad:

Pissed off at the crappy healthcare costs

My health Insurance renewal for 2027 just came in. Going from $827 a month to $1,187 a month. Deductible going up a $1k to $9,350. Max out of pocket also going up $1k to $11,000. Doctor co-pay of $40. Urgent Care co-pay $50. ER 50% coinsurance after deductible. That's all in network. Out of network is double, should it be needed.

Have to think about this. I'm really tempted to just go without now. I only go to the doctor once or twice a year. I pay out of pocket for Tirzepitide and can do without the Rosuvastatin (crestor) now. Really tired of spending over $10k a year and getting nothing out of it.

After years with Blue Cross I switched last year to Ambetter as my Blue Cross premium was going from $1200 to $1800 for a Silver plan and the Bronze plan was still going to be $1300 at BCBS. Ambetter was $827 for the same coverage with a Bronze plan. Didn't think it would jump this much so soon.

I'm guessing a Silver plan is probably over $2,000 a month for 2027.
21 Replies · 311 views
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vazhog
that cut is only for illegals to get off the rolls and I was being sarcastic before -
harshness
that cut is only for illegals to get off the rolls and I was being sarcastic before -
That's not who it is for. The cut is for those who won't work (though you typically had to prove that you couldn't work to get it in the first place).
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Foxbat
Why isn't this Political thread over in the Pit? This is why there is a Pit, and why I rarely use the Chit Chat Club. But someone said, "The Pub is Elitist since you have to pay dues to enter, so please post in the Chit Chat forum so more guests can read and participate."
osu1991
Why isn't this Political thread over in the Pit? This is why there is a Pit, and why I rarely use the Chit Chat Club. But someone said, "The Pub is Elitist since you have to pay dues to enter, so please post in the Chit Chat forum so more guests can read and participate."
I didn't start it as a political statement and have no interest in the political BS of this country. Everyone wants to make everything political nowadays. This was just my rant over the outrageous increase in my premiums and how unaffordable healthcare is becoming to the average person here.

admin can close or delete it if they don't want here.
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Bobby
Why isn't this Political thread over in the Pit? This is why there is a Pit, and why I rarely use the Chit Chat Club. But someone said, "The Pub is Elitist since you have to pay dues to enter, so please post in the Chit Chat forum so more guests can read and participate."
There are no dues to be paid to be in the Pit. You just have to use the password which is clearly shown when you try to log in to it.
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dishstaller
Everyone wants to make everything political nowadays.

Yes.....they do. Which is why I am very careful when at a customer's house these days....you NEVER know what is going to set someone off. Polite dialog is a thing of the past.....which is why I like my dog so much :)
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dishdude
That's not who it is for. The cut is for those who won't work (though you typically had to prove that you couldn't work to get it in the first place).

Which makes zero sense. If they are healthy and able to work but won't, they aren't using any health resources up.
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navychop
Until a runaway pickle truck hits them.
dishdude
Until a runaway pickle truck hits them.

I'm sure Vlasic has good insurance!
Scott Greczkowski
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge
Last reply · posted in SiriusXM Satellite Radio
Some of the channels start next week.

4 Replies · 212 views
comfortably_numb
My favorite is probably Holiday Pops.
TRG
TRG
It's not even Halloween yet.
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Scott Greczkowski
I like the Jimmy Fallon channel. This will be its third year. I like that it's all fresh each year. Also fun when he pops on live from time to time.
Don in CT
My favorite is probably Holiday Pops.
So it's a drunk father telling his in-laws to leave.
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dishstaller
Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in DISH Network Support Forum
I figured some of the guys would be looking here for an answer. You'll need to use this link

I'll mention what happened over there. I don't want to cause Scott any issues or put him in a bad spot.
7 Replies · 300 views
dishstaller
If any of you know some of the guys from the board and you have their contact info, please reach out to them....many failed to update their contact info and some even had starband email addresses.
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Scott Greczkowski
I figured some of the guys would be looking here for an answer. You'll need to use this link

I'll mention what happened over there. I don't want to cause Scott any issues or put him in a bad spot.
Now I have to go check out what happened now. Lol!
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Scott Greczkowski
Went and looked, not too bad...

Just let people know the address is satelliteretailer.com as DishRetailer.COM is not working. :)
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(((Garyd)))
If any of you know some of the guys from the board and you have their contact info, please reach out to them....many failed to update their contact info and some even had starband email addresses.
Your old link triggered my Bitdefender today.
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(((Garyd)))
Now I have to go check out what happened now. Lol!
I had a direct link to ]Political, thought provoking and debatable but now have to go in the main section or I get a warning on my Bitdefender
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dishstaller
Now I have to go check out what happened now. Lol!
I sent you a PM Scott. Doesn't really make any sense to me BUT....I've never claimed to be the sharpest knife in the drawer....though I just might be the most persistent. :baby
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Scott Greczkowski
I sent you a PM Scott. Doesn't really make any sense to me BUT....I've never claimed to be the sharpest knife in the drawer....though I just might be the most persistent. :baby
Its an automated bot. Explained it to you in the PM.
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osu1991
Pub Member / Supporter
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club

The number-one US state for EV growth, according to the June 22 Yardi report?
Oklahoma.


:eek


It has no ZEV mandates and "minimal" incentives, Yardi says, but also has cheap electricity, high multi-car household rates (so, for example, a non-Lightning Ford F-150 pulls their trailers), and a consumer base willing to switch.
117 Replies · 1172 views
meStevo

Never realized that Tesla is losing to BYD at manufacturing too, which IMO is Tesla's biggest accomplishment and area of innovation. Nice writeup about the state of play and how we got here though. I have no faith that we're moving any productive direction though sadly, most changes and efforts feel reactionary rather than rooted in making use of the time being bought by tariffs, with few exceptions.

So: how are the cars so cheap, and what is being cut to get there? The best public accounting comes from the Rhodium Group, which compared BYD, Geely, and Leapmotor against Tesla's Chinese operation, a fair comparison because it removes labor costs and shipping from the equation entirely. Their estimate is that BYD builds a car for about $4,700 less than Tesla builds a Model 3 in Shanghai, roughly 15 percent of the Model 3's price. The breakdown is the interesting part. Direct government grants account for about $292 per vehicle, which is 5 percent of the gap. The biggest single factor is vertical integration: BYD makes about 80 percent of its top-tier components in-house, against 37 percent for Tesla, and that eliminates roughly $2,369 per vehicle in supplier markups. Lower overhead, meaning cheaper engineering talent and administrative cost spread across enormous volume, accounts for another $1,719. And BYD pays its suppliers on 155-day terms, against Tesla's 60, which is worth about $214 per car in float. When people say the Chinese advantage is subsidies, the per-vehicle number says otherwise. When people say it is slave wages, the Tesla Shanghai comparison says otherwise too. The advantage is mostly that BYD decided, twenty years ago, to make its own batteries, its own motors, its own power electronics, and its own semiconductors, and Western automakers decided the opposite.​
harshness
If it weren't for the sky-high electricity prices...

Of course, the real scare with Winter coming is the insane cost of heating oil.
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osu1991

GM said its next-generation vehicle architecture will provide 40 times more computing power and 30 percent less wiring than before and will expand from the 2028 Cadillac Escalade IQ to its high-volume SUVs, trucks, crossovers, and fourth-generation EVs, which will be powered by lithium manganese-rich (LMR) prismatic batteries

Despite the politicization and perceived consumer pivot away from EVs in America, GM needs to remain globally competitive, so it's doubling down on its fourth generation EVs, with energy-dense, cheaper-to-manufacture LMR batteries, more efficient motors, and state-of-the-art centralized computing architecture. With a stated goal of cutting the traditional four- to five-year concept-to-production time in half, GM is clearly challenging the concept of "China speed," which in the Chinese automotive industry can be as quick as 18 months from design to start of production. In the AI space, GM is smartly collapsing all of its marque-specific apps under the familiar OnStar brand, while providing more features—both on the phone and in the car—than it ever has before.
harshness
Let's tell it like it is. GM's EV efforts are coming from SAIC. The brain trust is almost entirely in China, and GM is hanging off of SAIC's shirt tails.

It is a lot like asserting that the Corvette was designed by Chevrolet when most of it came from the Cadillac CTS-V.
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T

Never realized that Tesla is losing to BYD at manufacturing too, which IMO is Tesla's biggest accomplishment and area of innovation. Nice writeup about the state of play and how we got here though. I have no faith that we're moving any productive direction though sadly, most changes and efforts feel reactionary rather than rooted in making use of the time being bought by tariffs, with few exceptions.

So: how are the cars so cheap, and what is being cut to get there? The best public accounting comes from the Rhodium Group, which compared BYD, Geely, and Leapmotor against Tesla's Chinese operation, a fair comparison because it removes labor costs and shipping from the equation entirely. Their estimate is that BYD builds a car for about $4,700 less than Tesla builds a Model 3 in Shanghai, roughly 15 percent of the Model 3's price. The breakdown is the interesting part. Direct government grants account for about $292 per vehicle, which is 5 percent of the gap. The biggest single factor is vertical integration: BYD makes about 80 percent of its top-tier components in-house, against 37 percent for Tesla, and that eliminates roughly $2,369 per vehicle in supplier markups. Lower overhead, meaning cheaper engineering talent and administrative cost spread across enormous volume, accounts for another $1,719. And BYD pays its suppliers on 155-day terms, against Tesla's 60, which is worth about $214 per car in float. When people say the Chinese advantage is subsidies, the per-vehicle number says otherwise. When people say it is slave wages, the Tesla Shanghai comparison says otherwise too. The advantage is mostly that BYD decided, twenty years ago, to make its own batteries, its own motors, its own power electronics, and its own semiconductors, and Western automakers decided the opposite.​
That's how Ford did it- vertical integration. He even set up a rubber plantation in S. America
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