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jgabriels

Last reply Feb 10, 2009 · posted in Free To Air (FTA) Discussion

receivers that work with OTA ATSC program guide

I have a TR-40 (paid for by uncle sam) that can pick up
about 10 ATSC channels several of which are HD and also
includes a decent OTA program guide. I am wanting to
upgrade to a PVR that also does FTA.
From reading the forums it seems that only the HD receivers
allow me to do this, but I still have a bunch of questions.

How is the OTA ATSC channel guide transmitted?

All the HD FTA receivers talk about a EPG, does the
OTA ATSC channel guide propagate to this?

Are there any HD receivers that support blind scans?

What about software solutions, does mythtv or anything
else work well with FTA? It seems most people on this
forum use multiple slaved set top boxes instead of a
PC based solution, is there a reason why?

My dream system would be:
2 ATSC tuners
2 DVB-S2 tuners
blind scan with motor control
channel guide for at least the ATSC channels (i know alot of FTA
channels don't have guides, but I know my ATSC channels do)
PVR with support for watching/recording from at least 2 of the tuners at once.

Is there anything on the market that gets close to this?
I'm assuming for the 4 tuners I would have to go to a PC solution,
are there any software based solutions that compare to the
set-top boxes? What about the captiveworks or dreambox devices,
I would assume being linux based the hardware would be easier to upgrade,
anyone have any experience with them?

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Lak7

Feb 10, 2009

B.J.-
Does TSReader give you the EPG PID?

thisBUDsforyou

Feb 10, 2009

Dish makes a DTVPal DVR which does a 7-day OTA EPG using TVGOS data. It records in HD to a 500 GB hard drive. There are issues with the unit however - people are experiencing reboots and freezes. My first unit got sent back under warranty. Also it is OTA only, no satellite capability.

B.J.

Feb 10, 2009

Lak7 said:
B.J.-
Does TSReader give you the EPG PID?

Yes, but it seems to be in a different format, a bit more confusing. Ie my local NBC station has 2 channels, a HD channel and a SD weather channel. There are 4 PIDs devoted to listing the programs on these 2 channels, and 4 PIDs devoted to the program descriptions. Ie 7424,5,6,7 have the program names in the EITs (event information tables, which are normally associated with the EPG info), and 7680,1,2,3 have the program descriptions in ETTs (not sure what this stands for).
I'm not sure why, but there seems to be duplication of info in these PIDs, seems like they could have been able to use half as many PIDs as they did.

Compare the above to a DN EIT, which has the EIT on PID# 18, and ALL of the data for ALL of the channels is on this one EIT PID.

So it seems like the ATSC EPG data is a bit more complicated than that for the DVB style sat channels, so I'm guessing that the programmers just didn't want to try to figure it out. Can't be TOO hard though, since TSREADER does it for both FTA and OTA.

EDIT: On looking closer at the EIT/ETT data, I THINK I understand why they use 4 different PIDs. It looks to me like it must be that the more current info, ie for what is currently showing, seems to be on EIT-0 (ie 7424), while info that is more into the future is on the other 3. I assume that this must allow them to first grab the current and maybe an hour or two into the future off just 2 EITs, then once that has been parsed, the receivers can go on to collect a full EPG further into the future. Basically, TSREADER parses this info and puts it in chronological order, but also lists which EIT PID the data for each program comes from, and I noticed that the further I got into the future, the EIT number, ie 0,1,2,3 got bigger.

Lak7

Feb 10, 2009

I'm just wondering if changing one the PIDs will yield a guide.

B.J.

Feb 10, 2009

Lak7 said:
I'm just wondering if changing one the PIDs will yield a guide.

I don't think the user has any control over what PID the receiver uses for the EPG. The people writing the firmware might be able to do this, but it doesn't seem like the ATSC data is in the same format as the DVB data, at least with respect to the DN data (which is the only sat signal that I could think of that had an EPG).

For example if I record one of the ATSC EIT PIDs, and look at it with a binary editor, the data is in relatively small packets (hundreds of bytes or less each), and the info is all in plain ascii text, ie easy to extract. On the other hand, if I capture the DN EIT PID, it is in HUGE packets hundreds of KBs. (perhaps I shouldn't have used the word packets, but what I'm referring to is that the payloads of the ATSC data is in small groups with FF separators, while the DN data seems to go on forever without separators.
However even more different is the fact that it seems like the DN data isn't in plain text. It isn't encrypted, but it might be compressed or something, but in any event it doesn't show up as text in the display of my binary editor. TSREADER reads it fine though, so it must be in some easily decoded format.

Anyway, it's not as simple as just changing the PID#18 to PID#6424 or whatever.

Lak7

Feb 10, 2009

Anyway, it's not as simple as just changing the PID#18 to PID#6424 or whatever.

That answers my question, thanks!

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dishstaller

Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter

Last reply 8 minutes ago · posted in The Chit Chat Club

TVs are really getting big these days

Was raining yesterday so I went to Sams up in Dothan to stock up on some things. Haven't been there in quite a while. I was amazed at how large most of the TVs were. When I walked in they had a 100 in Vizio (I think it was Vizio) that was marked down to something like $1,200. The first rows of TVs were all in the 80 in + sizes. The next couple of rows had the "smaller" models....those 75 and under. I was amazed at how small the 75s looked when lined up with the larger screens.

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osu1991

Today at 10:28 AM

Q-LED and Mini LED panels have improved the picture quality and the tv's are so thin and nearly without bezels now. I've thought about replacing the 75in 4k DV/HDR LED Sony in my living room with a newer 86in. That's as big as I can go without construction changes. I watch the 75in 4k DV/HDR Q-LED in my bedroom and the difference between the two is very noticeable. There's nothing wrong with the living room tv though and I don't now that I actually watch enough anymore to really justify it. I could move it out to the patio but the 65in Q-LED out there looks really good and I'd have to change the mount to accomdate a larger tv out there.

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Foxbat

8 minutes ago

I'm at a limit for TV sizes at this time. My Father-in-Law crafted a custom entertainment center for our family room and we were restricted from going too big based on the side cabinets and central bridge fitting in the width of the room. It turns out to be where a 55" screen with bezels fits but no 65" bezel-less screen can fit. I think there was a brief period where 58" screens where a thing, but no more.

So, no huge screens for the Foxbat's…

Scott Greczkowski

Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge

Last reply 9 minutes ago · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Song Name Game Part 3!

Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne

Get it?

An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....

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ClarkGable

Today at 5:48 AM

Touch Me - The Doors

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dishstaller

Today at 9:10 AM

The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face - Roberta Flack

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harshness

Today at 10:47 AM

In the Still of the Night - The Five Satins

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Bobby

Today at 11:08 AM

I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For - David Cook

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sdfntx

9 minutes ago

Looking for the Next Best Thing - Warren Zevon

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TWiT Tech Podcast Network

11 minutes ago · posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network

This Linux PC Packs Power Into a Shoebox

Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htIStYBn3KA

Direct YouTube Link - This Linux PC Packs Power Into a Shoebox
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TWiT Tech Podcast Network

11 minutes ago · posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Is NVIDIA’s CEO Being Targeted in an Alleged Spy Plot? #shorts

Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/wjZAY_aVbco

Direct YouTube Link - Is NVIDIA's CEO Being Targeted in an Alleged Spy Plot? #shorts
TWIT's Website
TWIT Live Feed

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MorCowbell

Last reply 35 minutes ago · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

Saved OTA list on Dish can't be appended

I have Dish with Hopper3. I choose to get local channels OTA and had a "guide list" established at my previous home. Having moved a few miles away, I wanted to update the list by appending a couple new stations via a rescan. As many would know, some stations come in with the UHF/VHF antenna aimed in one direction, while others come in better with a different direction.

Unfortunately, when a scan is done (bringing in 25-30 stations for that particular antenna aim), the dialog screen does not present the established guide list; it presents an empty field to the right that the scanned stations may be selected one by one and added to the empty guide. But because of antenna aim, some stations originally saved are missing, and would have to be retrieved with a different antenna aim. But as I explain, if a 2nd scan is done with a different antenna aim, the stations saved from the first scan are lost.

It troubles me that Dish didn't develop software that would allow a user to simply append only 1 or 2 channels to the established list.

Any thought on this? Has anyone experienced this or heard of this from others?

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dishstaller

Yesterday at 9:59 PM

I hear complaints from customers each and every day. I chose not to install OTAs with a doggle for a reason.

BTW, I like your user name

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/MXNU6pQFkok

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rvvaquero

Today at 7:49 AM

MorCowbell said:
It troubles me that Dish didn't develop software that would allow a user to simply append only 1 or 2 channels to the established list.

So, you want the ability to, for example, scan while your antenna is pointed to the east and save those channels to your list. Then, you want to scan again with the antenna pointed to the west, and add some of those channels to the list also while retaining the original channels you added from the east?

How would that work? If you move the antenna and some of your channels are no longer are accessible, there's no point in having them on the list. Unless, you want to re-point the antenna each time you switched from an east channel to a west channel and vice versa.

I suppose you could have one of those remote controlled antenna mast like we had back in the 60's. In that case, I can see your point. I think DISH has just designed the system to fit what the vast majority of users actually have. I'm guessing your situation is a pretty narrow use case scenario. I'm just really happy to be able to have my locals without having to pay the $17 month for them.

I just wish DISH would fix the remote control issue that the last few software downloads screwed up. I use the 54 remote and my Hopper is jumping around from off to on, from live to recording.......................like a Kangaroo.

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MorCowbell

Today at 11:18 AM

To Dishstaller, I appreciate your compliment. That was an epic SNL skit !!

To RVvaquero, I appreciate your coments but everything you mention has been considered:

Firstly, I use OTA very rarely - mainly for sporting events.
Secondly, I'm well aware that, since certain channels may scan from one directon while others from another directions, and remembering the difference, for certain stations I will point the antenna in a suitable direction. Some stations come in for almost any direction. In my original list (which has now been discarded), I had about 18 OTA stations and all of them were scanned from the same antenna direction. Even so, the Dish receiver was very particular about ABC (local KOAT 007-01). In the new geographic setting, it gets KOAT easier. Several months ago, due to a contract dispute, CBS (formerly local KRQE on 013-01) was dropped; it hooked up with KOAT as KOATCB (007-04) which is the one station I really needed. But I had to rescan to get it ...

All of ths points to the flaw in Dish's OTA software that prevents scanned stations from simply being appended to a master saved list. The user should be left to manage antenna pointing per OTA station since in many areas (like mine), they don't all come in from the same direction.

Reactions: charlesrshell, rvvaquero and dishstaller

Bobby

Today at 11:35 AM

MorCowbell said:
To Dishstaller, I appreciate your compliment. That was an epic SNL skit !!

To RVvaquero, I appreciate your coments but everything you mention has been considered:

Firstly, I use OTA very rarely - mainly for sporting events.
Secondly, I'm well aware that, since certain channels may scan from one directon while others from another directions, and remembering the difference, for certain stations I will point the antenna in a suitable direction. Some stations come in for almost any direction. In my original list (which has now been discarded), I had about 18 OTA stations and all of them were scanned from the same antenna direction. Even so, the Dish receiver was very particular about ABC (local KOAT 007-01). In the new geographic setting, it gets KOAT easier. Several months ago, due to a contract dispute, CBS (formerly local KRQE on 013-01) was dropped; it hooked up with KOAT as KOATCB (007-04) which is the one station I really needed. But I had to rescan to get it ...

All of ths points to the flaw in Dish's OTA software that prevents scanned stations from simply being appended to a master saved list. The user should be left to manage antenna pointing per OTA station since in many areas (like mine), they don't all come in from the same direction.

As rvvaquero mentioned, you are in a very small population who actually need to move their antenna to receive various TV channels. There are a few reasons why it is not advantageous for Dish to do what you are asking for. First and primary, there are anomalies in the software that can cause issues when you have scanned channels in the mix that have little or no signal. You get error pop ups and cannot watch any channel, OTA or satellite. I have seen these even with my antenna pointed to one direction. Second, you are asking Dish to adapt their software to your needs while the very vast majority don't need that. This is an expense that everyone is going to have to pay for while few gain any advantage.

Have you thought about adding a second antenna so that you are pointing at both directions to fulfill your needs. There are ways to do this and it would fulfill your individual need.

Google Search

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Foxbat

35 minutes ago

Televes makes an antenna signal combiner that will support two different antennas pointing towards two different locations, and has filters to drop the signals from the channels that interfere with the 2nd antenna channels. This produces a signal that would contain all your receivable channels in one feed. It would probably cost less than a single antenna on a rotor controlled by a smart box that would relocate the antenna mast towards the TV station you wanted to tune in, plus it's instantaneous, without waiting for the antenna to slew towards its target.

Why Choose the Televes SmartKom?

SmartKom combines filtering, combining, and amplification in one outdoor preamplifier. Its three inputs and 32 programmable digital filters allow installers to select, combine, and level channels from different antenna sources, while the included ASuite app supports both automatic and advanced Bluetooth programming.

Key Benefits

Three VHF/UHF antenna inputs
32 programmable digital channel filters
Automatic channel scan, filtering, and level balancing
Advanced per-channel programming through the ASuite app
Bluetooth programming through the included power supply interface
Automatic gain control on each filter
LTE/5G out-of-band filtering
Compatible with HDTV, UHD 4K, and supported ATSC 3.0 signals
Configuration retained after power loss
12V, 750mA power supply included

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TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Today at 1:42 PM · posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Why Sam Altman Hates Local AI Models on Your Computer

Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YnXg9hlrfg

Direct YouTube Link - Why Sam Altman Hates Local AI Models on Your Computer
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Van

Last reply Today at 1:27 PM · posted in What's Cooking?

Whats for breakfast?

Who says dinner or lunch has to be the only good meals of the day?

Honey butter grits with scrambled eggs and grilled boneless pork ribs on flakey biscuits washed down with cranberry juice.

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dfergie

Saturday at 11:26 AM

Mixed one egg, one tablespoon cottage cheese with a small fine grated potato, salt and pepper, made 3 waffles in the small waffle iron... Bacon, sausage and milk. (next time will add grated cheese to mix)

TRG

Yesterday at 12:54 PM

Breakfast Sandwich. Over hard eggs, fried deli ham and a thick slice of sharp cheddar cheese on sourdough toast. Coffee.

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dfergie

Today at 11:15 AM

Buttermilk waffles, butter, maple syrup... Milk

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TRG

Today at 12:08 PM

Bagel and cream cheese. Coffee.

osu1991

Today at 1:27 PM

French toast, sausage and eggs at the diner across the street from the dealer after I turned in my leased EV9 this morning

Reactions: dfergie and TRG

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osu1991

Pub Member / Supporter

Last reply Today at 1:27 PM · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Kia EV9

I had been wanting to get an EV for a couple of years but really couldn't justify it as my Yukon was nearly new and had only 50k miles. Last year we moved my mother into my home and she was having trouble getting into the Yukon, so I decided it was a good time to a vehicle a little easier to get into. The EV 9 had just recently hit dealer lots a little earlier in 2024 and I had been watching them. So in 3 weeks it will have been a year since I got my 2024 Kia EV 9 Light Long Range.

I really enjoy driving it. It's nearly the same size as my 2017 GMC Yukon. I think the Kia has more interior room. It definitely has more rear leg room for the 2nd and 3rd row. It's not the fastest EV out there, but it has plenty of power for normal day to day driving. Made several trips to the lake house this summer. That's usually my longest regular trip. Its 198 miles round trip and the EV9 does that easily even driving 85-90mph on the interstate. Usually charge up to 100% the night before and get back with 20-25% remaining depending on how fast I drive. It was raining and I drove closer to 75mph a few weeks ago and got back with 26%, but was at 20% last week after driving 90mph on a sunny 90F day. Overall I average 2.6m/kWh. Feature wise it's a step up from my 2017 GMC Yukon , which is a nice vehicle but I really hate having to drive it much anymore. The Emporia EVSE in my garage knows my electric rate and logs all the charging. It's been costing me an avg of $20 a month to drive 700-800 miles a month. Less for the year than what it cost me just to change the oil and service the Yukon a couple of weeks ago.

I wouldn't want to go back to a combustion vehicle. The driving experience is just so much better with the EV.

Picture is from the day I picked it up the first week of Nov 2024.

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osu1991

Oct 4, 2026

Dang it's easy to get used to 4 motors and 900HP. Drove the EV9 today instead of the Rivian and could really tell there was 700HP missing.

. Still really like the EV9 and will miss it.

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meStevo

Oct 4, 2026

lol, the sales arm of the Kia dealership is starting to ping me 'want to make plans or move on from your EV9?'

I tell them that I'd be open to anything that doesn't involve anything out of pocket, ends my lease and puts me in a new EV9 at same or better trim - and admitting up front that I'm not in a position to expect anything to happen and respecting everyone's time I don't think it's worth pursuing.

Then they send me a EV9 Short Range deal for $550/mo - a downgrade from my LLR - while mentioning Kia Financial is pretty strict on lease options, as if I didn't just tie them both together as needing to be dealt with.

el oh el.

I didn't respond. Fed it into Muse and even it had a laugh.

I've got Muse tracking EV prices and some of the vehicles I'd consider.

meStevo

Oct 6, 2026

Got my EV9 back, they replaced the front wiring harness. It wasn't super weird going from the EV9 to the 2026 Jeep Grand Cherokee... the Jeep just felt so jerky and kinda loud but didn't bother me much - certainly didn't feel like a $30k+ car. But going the other way, what a jarring experience. I had forgotten that feeling of going from ICE to EV, how smooth the ride is and how quiet it is.

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osu1991

Oct 11, 2026

Most likely the last time I'll charge the EV9 before turning it back in. Was down to 37% and I was driving it to pick up some thing's this morning since my flat rivian tire is taking up half the bed on it. I was near the EA station and thought I might as well use some more of the free charging up that came with the lease. Still have 250ish kWh left of free charging. Get it up to 80% and it should be good for 2.5 weeks unless something comes up requiring a long drive.

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osu1991

Today at 1:27 PM

My EV9 is no longer mine. Lease ends this week. Turned it into the dealer this morning. Did a short video to document it and took pics along with pics of the tire tread depth with a depth gauge just in case anything comes up. I was surprised the dealer didn't do anything. Just took the keys and pics of the vin and said I was good to go.

View: https://youtu.be/_dzl_xeJsQU

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ewindowman

Lifetime Supporter

Last reply Today at 1:25 PM · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

Dish Bankruptcy - Business as Usual

Looks like dish is Bankrupt. Filling tomorrow Tuesday June 30th

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nelson61

Saturday at 1:01 PM

"
They note that the Dish Wireless radios at issue support the 2GHz and 800MHz spectrum SpaceX is acquiring from EchoStar and Grain.

"Buying compatible equipment already installed on towers could give SpaceX a head start on its wireless terrestrial network build and throw a big bucket of cold water on Verizon's four-to-six-year timeline and $300-$500 billion estimate for SpaceX's buildout," said the analysts."

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reubenray

Yesterday at 5:36 AM

nelson61 said:
"
They note that the Dish Wireless radios at issue support the 2GHz and 800MHz spectrum SpaceX is acquiring from EchoStar and Grain.

"Buying compatible equipment already installed on towers could give SpaceX a head start on its wireless terrestrial network build and throw a big bucket of cold water on Verizon's four-to-six-year timeline and $300-$500 billion estimate for SpaceX's buildout," said the analysts."

Back when Dish was installing antennas everywhere for their internet service I mapped several of the tower locations around me. One is less than a mile away from me and several more about three miles away in several different directions. If SpaceX does something with these I may be in a prime spot.

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slow_poke_pete

Yesterday at 6:57 PM

Amazon to acquire Globalstar and expand Amazon Leo satellite network

Globalstar satellites, radio frequency spectrum, and operational expertise will enable Amazon Leo to add Direct-to-Device (D2D) services to future generations of its low Earth orbit satellite network.

www.aboutamazon.com

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slow_poke_pete

Yesterday at 7:07 PM

SpaceX reportedly seeks 80,000 cell sites to become a wireless carrier | Fox News

SpaceX is reportedly pursuing 80,000 cell sites to turn Starlink into a wireless carrier that could compete with Verizon, AT&T and T-Mobile for cell coverage.

www.foxnews.com

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nelson61

Today at 12:22 PM

Washington Post

SpaceX has held talks with Boost's parent company EchoStar in recent months about launching its own signature wireless service through a deal with the company, according to two people familiar with the negotiations.
Musk, the SpaceX CEO, has discussed the deal personally, meeting with EchoStar chairman Charlie Ergen last month, according to the people. The potential deal may result in SpaceX acquiring Boost Mobile or SpaceX gaining access to its network, which it leases from AT&T and T-Mobile US, the people said.
Access to those lease agreements would be a coup for SpaceX. The back door would allow Musk to make a play for a U.S. wireless market that equity research firm MoffettNathanson estimates is worth $235 billion. But the proposed service may need consent from those carriers for the service to actually launch, the people said.

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Scott Greczkowski

Today at 1:25 PM

nelson61 said:
Washington Post

SpaceX has held talks with Boost's parent company EchoStar in recent months about launching its own signature wireless service through a deal with the company, according to two people familiar with the negotiations.
Musk, the SpaceX CEO, has discussed the deal personally, meeting with EchoStar chairman Charlie Ergen last month, according to the people. The potential deal may result in SpaceX acquiring Boost Mobile or SpaceX gaining access to its network, which it leases from AT&T and T-Mobile US, the people said.
Access to those lease agreements would be a coup for SpaceX. The back door would allow Musk to make a play for a U.S. wireless market that equity research firm MoffettNathanson estimates is worth $235 billion. But the proposed service may need consent from those carriers for the service to actually launch, the people said.

Can't remember where or who I saw predict this.

It wouldn't surprise me to see Elon soon own all of DISH / Echostar in the future.

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Linus Tech Tips

Today at 12:42 PM · posted in Linus Tech Tips

My F-You To Sam Altman

Time for another AWESOME video from Linus Tech Tips!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDmjw-c_R2k

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