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question:
if you have `129 and 61.5 installed, then...how does the receiver pick which sat to use for a channel mirrored on both sats? signal level? is there a default sat?
round here we are told NOT to use 61.5 and 129 together because the receiver will choose to use 129 (which has lower sig levels in this area) but that sounds like 'made up' info to me.
for instance if i go to a job with a 1000.2 installed and i need to install 61.5 for locals, i am told to remove the 1000.2 and replace with a 500 or cover the 129 lnb with duct tape and run a checkswitch. this seems redundant and unnesecary.
so whats the deal?

sca said:

question:
if you have `129 and 61.5 installed, then...how does the receiver pick which sat to use for a channel mirrored on both sats? signal level? is there a default sat?
round here we are told NOT to use 61.5 and 129 together because the receiver will choose to use 129 (which has lower sig levels in this area) but that sounds like 'made up' info to me.
for instance if i go to a job with a 1000.2 installed and i need to install 61.5 for locals, i am told to remove the 1000.2 and replace with a 500 or cover the 129 lnb with duct tape and run a checkswitch. this seems redundant and unnesecary.
so whats the deal?

Click to expand...

Usually I see it hitting 129 first.... I think that's because what gets loaded in the tables first. But sometimes you will see it hitting the other. Signal strength doesn't matter. Just whatever gets loaded in the maps first.

Duct tape blocks the signal on 129? Didn't think it would but maybe I'm wrong.

When's the last time you checked signal on 129 in your area? I figured it would be about the same as 61.5, the locals on 129 will probably be stronger.

digiblur said:

Usually I see it hitting 129 first.... I think that's because what gets loaded in the tables first. But sometimes you will see it hitting the other. Signal strength doesn't matter. Just whatever gets loaded in the maps first.

Duct tape blocks the signal on 129? Didn't think it would but maybe I'm wrong.

When's the last time you checked signal on 129 in your area? I figured it would be about the same as 61.5, the locals on 129 will probably be stronger.

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wow that was a fast reply.
the levels may be the same, the difference is elevation, which causes los issues in this land of lots and lots of trees. 129 is roughly 6 degrees lower than 61.5 here.
so, my question is, is it safe to leave 129 installed (because a 1000.2 will provide greater signal on 110 and 119) when installing a 61.5 wing?
covering the 129 lnb and running a checkswitch will 'remove' 129 from the switch matrix. but this just doesnt sound like a good idea to me. but it is what experienced techs from this area suggest.
im just curious, as i used to install in the west, never saw a 61.5 wing. now i install in the upper midwest, where you can hit both but 61.5 is easier...and the hd locals are on there.

sca said:

wow that was a fast reply.
the levels may be the same, the difference is elevation, which causes los issues in this land of lots and lots of trees. 129 is roughly 6 degrees lower than 61.5 here.
so, my question is, is it safe to leave 129 installed (because a 1000.2 will provide greater signal on 110 and 119) when installing a 61.5 wing?
covering the 129 lnb and running a checkswitch will 'remove' 129 from the switch matrix. but this just doesnt sound like a good idea to me. but it is what experienced techs from this area suggest.
im just curious, as i used to install in the west, never saw a 61.5 wing. now i install in the upper midwest, where you can hit both but 61.5 is easier.

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Email notifications are fast

Yep, that was the exact solution that lots of people gave out here at Satguys when E5 was at 129. Signal strength from that satellite sucked. So people would put up a 61.5 wing, connect it to the Dish1000, and cover the 129 LNB with aluminum foil. I know several people have now pulled the foil off of 129 due to better signal strength and out of laziness left the 61.5 up.

They way you suggest would work fine, as long as the customer doesn't run check switch again

digiblur said:

Email notifications are fast

Yep, that was the exact solution that lots of people gave out here at Satguys when E5 was at 129. Signal strength from that satellite sucked. So people would put up a 61.5 wing, connect it to the Dish1000, and cover the 129 LNB with aluminum foil. I know several people have now pulled the foil off of 129 due to better signal strength and out of laziness left the 61.5 up.

They way you suggest would work fine, as long as the customer doesn't run check switch again

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i guess, but as an installer i am thinking of callbacks and tc's. if the customer calls in and the rep has them do a tests and a red x shows up, there is an assumption that something is wrong. i am wondering if its ok to just leave 129 installed. if you are getting signal issues on a channel coming on 129 and the same channel is also coming off 61.5 with better signal, shouldnt the receiver be able to pick that channel up from the stronger sat?

sca said:

i guess, but as an installer i am thinking of callbacks and tc's. if the customer calls in and the rep has them do a tests and a red x shows up, there is an assumption that something is wrong. i am wondering if its ok to just leave 129 installed. if you are getting signal issues on a channel coming on 129 and the same channel is also coming off 61.5 with better signal, shouldnt the receiver be able to pick that channel up from the stronger sat?

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I haven't done one myself... but I thought 129 doesn't even show up with you do a check switch with an install with 129 covered up. I might be wrong....

Nope. You could have a 20% signal on 129 and 50% on 61.5 and if the receiver happened to pick up the 129 maps first then it's staying on 129 until the receiver happens to load the maps with 61.5 first.

For instance... in one location where locals were coming off a 119 spotbeam (large beams there), the customer moved and had locals for several months with zero issues of 60+% signal on that beam. Then Dish loaded the same locals on 61.5 since that market was also deemed a EA market. The receiver would happen to load the 61.5 maps first you would get the blue slate showing the local channel was out. The customer was outside of the tighter 61.5 spotbeam for the same locals. You could reboot the 722 and boom, there were the locals off of 119. Reboot it again and the same issue with no signal. Just the luck of the draw I guess.

digiblur said:

I haven't done one myself... but I thought 129 doesn't even show up with you do a check switch with an install with 129 covered up. I might be wrong....

Nope. You could have a 20% signal on 129 and 50% on 61.5 and if the receiver happened to pick up the 129 maps first then it's staying on 129 until the receiver happens to load the maps with 61.5 first.

For instance... in one location where locals were coming off a 119 spotbeam (large beams there), the customer moved and had locals for several months with zero issues of 60+% signal on that beam. Then Dish loaded the same locals on 61.5 since that market was also deemed a EA market. The receiver would happen to load the 61.5 maps first you would get the blue slate showing the local channel was out. The customer was outside of the tighter 61.5 spotbeam for the same locals. You could reboot the 722 and boom, there were the locals off of 119. Reboot it again and the same issue with no signal. Just the luck of the draw I guess.

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oh yeah, you're probably right about it not showing up at all. i never tried, it just sounds unprofessional to use tinfoil or duct tape to 'solve' an install.
i bet dish could easily add a software code to pick up a mirrored channel from a sat with better signal, but who knows, i'm no engineer.
anyway, thats all good info to know. thanks!

I shall NOT be denied !!! Finally, success with 129W...

Hi folks! I wanted to put some closure on this one. I made a "poor man's inclinometer" with a long level and a piece of cardboard cut with a 20 deg. angle taped to the top edge of the level. (My elevation to 129W is 20.3 deg. per Dishpointer.com.) I put a small table on the peak of my garage roof with the level on it close to the 129W wing location, aimed it to 253 deg. mag., leveled it, then sighted along the cardboard...and I was looking directly into trees about 8' below their tops. The cheap analog meter I bought confirmed the very weak and highly variable signal I was receiving from 129W in comparison to 61.5, and also helped confirm my elevation and bearing. (The audible indication in that meter is great as it was in-line some 15' from where I am adjusting the dish.)

I got a tree surgeon out last weekend and after about 4 hours of trimming...SUCCESS !!! (I'm not going to tell you how much that cost me!) We used my tool to confirm what needed to be trimmed and we were listening to the tone from that meter through the whole process. The improvements were minor until we took the whole top out of one particular red oak (I hated to do that, but we SatGuys have priorities!) and the signal took a huge jump, indicated by the deeper, steadier tone and pegged needle!

I went inside and did another checkswitch with 129W connected in place of 61.5 and it finally worked again. When I checked the signal meter in the Point Dish screen I was getting indicated levels of 50+ on many transponders, and nothing less than 40 for the rest of the actives. I'm comparing that with the no better than 15-18 and highly variable strength I was getting on 4-24 when the 129W wing was first installed. With that I could lock the sat., but I had some drop outs. Then the day after that when the leaves came out significantly I lost the signal altogether per the 211's meter.

I have been out of town since that day and have not had much chance to play with this and watch for any anomalies, but so far it seems rock solid! I will now need to make the dish installation permanent (new, stronger mast, guy wires, grounded properly) and run a forth cable all the way to my DPP44 in case I need to make a change in inclement weather. But at this point indications are good for continuing success with 129W!

So I FINALLY have my 4 LiL networks in HD (and I can get PBS quite well OTA). Couple that with the other 5 new HD channels we began receiving last week, and I am one happy camper!

I have pictures of the process but am having some difficulties getting them out of my Handycam. If I solve that problem I will post a couple...

Best to all and especially digiblur for his advice and encouragement through this process...!

bhelms said:

Hi folks! I wanted to put some closure on this one. I made a "poor man's inclinometer with a long level and a piece of cardboard cut with a 20 deg. angle in it (my elevation to 129W is 20.3 deg. per Dishpointer.com). I put a small table on the peak of my garage roof with the level on it, aimed it to 253 deg. mag. bearing, leveled it, then sighted along the cardboard, and I was looking directly into trees about 8' below their tops. The cheap analog meter I bought confirmed the very weak and highly variable signal I was receiving from 129W in comparison to 61.5, and also helped confirm my elevation and bearing.

I got a tree surgeon out last weekend and after about 3 hours of trimming...SUCCESS !!! (I'm not going to tell you how much that cost me!) We used my tool to confirm what needed to be trimmed and we were listening to the tone from that meter through the whole process. The improvements were minor until we took the whole top out of one particular red oak (I hated to do that, but we SatGuys have priorities!) and the signal took a huge jump, indicated by the tone and pegged needle!

I went inside and did another checkswitch with 129W connected in place of 61.5 and it finally worked again. When I checked the signal meter in the Point Dish screen I was getting indicated levels of 50+ on many transponders, and nothing less than 40 for the rest of the actives. I compared that with the no better than 18-20 strength I was getting on 4-24 when the 129W wing was first installed.

I have been out of town since that day and have not had much chance to play with this and watch for any anomalies, but so far it seems rock solid! I will now need to make the dish installation permanent (new, stronger mast, guy wires, grounded properly) and run a forth cable all the way to my DPP44 in case I need to make a change in inclement weather. But at this point indications are good for continuing success with 129W!

So I FINALLY have my 4 LiL networks in HD (and I can get PBS quite well OTA). Couple that with the other 5 new HD channels we began receiving last week, and I am one happy camper!

I have pictures of the process, but am having some difficulties getting them out of my Handycam. If I solve that problem I will post a couple...

Click to expand...

Congrats on your success in receiving 129. Persistence does pay off in the end. Too bad that you had to chop off the top of that red oak.

Voyager6 said:

Congrats on your success in receiving 129. Persistence does pay off in the end. Too bad that you had to chop off the top of that red oak.

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Tks! I was also just about to re-edit the above post to thank you again for reminding me about that I-adapter for the single LNB. Installing that also made a bit of a difference vs. the off-axis situation I had with the Y-adapter installed; with the Y we were looking in the wrong direction by about 5 deg. and that might have had me cutting the wrong trees! (The Dish tech certainly pointed to the wrong ones.)

Perhaps that oak will make a comeback...and it would take it years to be tall enough to interfer again... but I don't think that one will survive. For most of the others, they were trimmed in a manner that they should survive. We did cut out most of one maple, but it was already diseased and would not have lasted much longer anyway, and one small tree was a victim of a top crashing into it. But otherwise I did not completely kill too much. And for those I did, they will help keep me warm this winter! And I have hundreds of good hardwood trees surrounding me, so a few won't be missed after long. Mother Nature has a way of taking care of herself.

If I lose the signal again due to regrowth I certainly know what I need to do to get it back!

Tks again all...