Can I be connected to 61.5 and 129 at the same time?

[bhelms]

Hi all! The Dish tech tried to get me connected to 129W on Fri. in order for me to receive the newly-launched HD LiLs for the Johnstown / Altoona DMA. I definitely have LOS issues, but apparently right on the margin. I asked the tech to leave me the 61.5 equipment in case I needed to move back. All he did was use the cable from the 61.5 LNBF to my DPP44 switch so I still have one open input on the switch. The 129 dish (D500) is not co-located with the other 2, but the cable runs to their location.

On Fri. the signal was there but at about 15-18 max. strength on the (revised) 211 dishpointer meter and quite variable whereas I have ~35 and less variable on the 61.5 location and almost zero issues with that one. I watched those new HD LiLs and other HD channels on 129 for the rest of Fri. There was occasional drop-out but for the most part the channels were watchable. On Sat. and again yesterday I completely lost 129. Surprise, the offending trees that are just encroaching into the LOS had started setting their leaves on Sat.! So I switched back to 61.5 to restore what I had before the tech came out, no issues with that. I need to make some decisions about those trees. They are on my property, but both are beautiful red oaks and I hate to cut them completely. There are some other things I can try first, like raising the dish even more and perhaps getting a larger one.

So the question is, can I have both 61.5 and 129 connected into my switch at the same time? That would certainly be a whole lot more convenient than having to swap connections and go through the reconnection routine each time I make a change.

TIA and BRgds...

 

[RandallA]

Yes you can. The receiver will choose what satellite to use for the natl. HD channels but with Ciel 2 that is no longer an issue. You need to trim the beautiful red oak though.

 

[bhelms]

Tks RandallA! Trimming the trees is certainly an option I will consider, I just don't want to cut them down altogether. But they are quite tall, perhaps 70-80'. I can wait to find out how much that will cost me...!!

 

[RandallA]

Is it possible to relocate that 129 dish? If you find a good spot, all you need to do is run a cable from that dish to the Dpp44 switch.

 

[bhelms]

Maybe. At this point there are no better locations associated with my house except with extreme elevation, i.e., too high to make adjustments on the dish except by lowering it again. But I was thinking about moving further back on the property with a pole mount. I could probably find a favorable point within 100' of the switch that might be able to see over those trees even at a lower elevation. I was also thinking about going to a larger dish, like maybe 24 - 30" at the same time to increase the signal strength. I think the low level I was experiencing on Fri. was not due so much to the trees as to relative issues with 129 in these parts. So even if I can clear the trees with the D500 I don't expect any increase in signal strength. But I'd certainly try the D500 first before buying another dish. I could set a pole and just run the cable across the ground for a trial period before I go to the effort of trenching it...

 

[digiblur]

There are no issues with coverage for 129 in your area if you have LOS. Its a brand new bird designed to cover CONUS.

 

[bhelms]

I based my comment on the Dish tech's comment to me. I obviously have only this initial experience with it but he has been trying to get folks set up with 129 with both E5 and now Ciel-2. (His company covers a large territory including areas in western PA that E5 covered.) Apparently I'm not the only one experiencing low signal levels from even the new bird, but agreed, LOS might be the issue with all that are experiencing problems. If I'm able to move the dish back to a better LOS or trim the trees I'll report back whatever increase I see in the 129 signal level...

 

[digiblur]

I based my comment on the Dish tech's comment to me. I obviously have only this initial experience with it but he has been trying to get folks set up with 129 with both E5 and now Ciel-2. (His company covers a large territory including areas in western PA that E5 covered.) Apparently I'm not the only one experiencing low signal levels from even the new bird, but agreed, LOS might be the issue with all that are experiencing problems. If I'm able to move the dish back to a better LOS or trim the trees I'll report back whatever increase I see in the 129 signal level...

E-5 hasn't been used in your area for quite some time. At least 2 months or so...

He's probably just one of the uninformed techs that still thinks 129 is an issue in his area from the older Echostar5 bird.

I've seen reports of 55+ on the national transponders (17-32) in your area on 129. So there's no issues in your area that I know of.

 

[Hemi 6.1]

There are no issues with coverage for 129 in your area if you have LOS. Its a brand new bird designed to cover CONUS.

Would the North East be able to use the 129 ?
Or is it still too low on the horizon?

 

[digiblur]

Would the North East be able to use the 129 ?
Or is it still too low on the horizon?

Here's the CONUS coverage map for 129.
SatelliteGuys.US - Subscription 129°W

Depends on what you consider too low.

 

[bhelms]

...I've seen reports of 55+ on the national transponders (17-32) in your area on 129. So there's no issues in your area that I know of.

OK, that's good information and a benchmark for me. My only "meter" at present is what's included with the 211 receiver's software and there's a note on that dishpointer screen indicating a recent change that makes the current readings lower than what were shown previously. Is the meter in the 622 the same? (I didn't take note on Fri.) I realize these readings are all relative, but I would hope they're at least consistent/repeatable to be useful for tuning and as a basis for comparison.

So toward that, is that 55+ you're reporting based on E* receiver readings and if so, was that before or after the "change"?

I did not take note of my previous readings on 61.5, 110, and 119. But on Fri. they were ~35, 35, and 44 IIRC. I'll record them, then check periodically. 129 was, as I noted, no better than about 18 on the same scale before the leaves came out, and now -0-. The tech said he had the best signal at a point that was several degrees above the pre-leaf tree-tops but in fact that might not have been pointing directly at the sat. which might very well have been buried in those tops and is now completely invisible.

Anyway - a new challenge for me!

PS - I was thinking of getting a handheld meter, like the SF95L from Sadoun. That one is very inexpensive, like $16, but sounds like it would be OK to fine-tune my 61.5 and 129 wings. Any experience with that one, or is there another anyone would recommend? I don't want to pay the $600+ for a "professional" unit, but something under $100 is reasonable for me...

 

[digiblur]

OK, that's good information and a benchmark for me. My only "meter" at present is what's included with the 211 receiver's software and there's a note on that dishpointer screen indicating a recent change that makes the current readings lower than what were shown previously. Is the meter in the 622 the same? (I didn't take note on Fri.) I realize these readings are all relative, but I would hope they're at least consistent/repeatable to be useful for tuning and as a basis for comparison.

So toward that, is that 55+ you're reporting based on E* receiver readings and if so, was that before or after the "change"?

I did not take note of my previous readings on 61.5, 110, and 119. But on Fri. they were ~35, 35, and 44 IIRC. I'll record them, then check periodically. 129 was, as I noted, no better than about 18 on the same scale before the leaves came out, and now -0-. The tech said he had the best signal at a point that was several degrees above the pre-leaf tree-tops but in fact that might not have been pointing directly at the sat. which might very well have been buried in those tops and is now completely invisible.

Anyway - a new challenge for me!

PS - I was thinking of getting a handheld meter, like the SF95L from Sadoun. That one is very inexpensive, like $16, but sounds like it would be OK to fine-tune my 61.5 and 129 wings. Any experience with that one, or is there another anyone would recommend? I don't want to pay the $600+ for a "professional" unit, but something under $100 is reasonable for me...

Check this thread.. I remember seeing a WV one in there. http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-ne...-post-your-129w-spotbeam-signal-readings.html

These readings were done after the change to the signal meter. As far as I know all of the ViP receivers (211, 622, 722, etc) are supposed to be the same scale.

The little analog signal meters do help you if you are doing it by yourself. Be careful though as they don't tell you what bird you are on like the professional units. So if you know the vicinity of where the signal is it will help you tune it in. I've see someone fine tune in a signal with one of those meters and the signal was not a Dishnetwork compatible signal, and ended up with 0% on the meter on the TV.

 

[bhelms]

...He's probably just one of the uninformed techs that still thinks 129 is an issue in his area from the older Echostar5 bird...

I took that into consideration. It's been 3+ years since a tech was out for my original HD upgrade. (Same company, different tech.) And individual attitudes vary due to a lot of factors. This guy seemed OK. He immediately hit me with the LOS problem, but also expressed a willingness to at least try. Then when he realized I was willing to help (get him a mast and mount it, not try to borrow his tools, etc.) he opened-up a bit. I tipped him partway through our 2-hr. encounter and I think that helped as well. I was sure to mention I knew there was a difference between E5 and Ciel-2 (tks to digiblur!) and he said he still had a "lot of problems" and also stated that the owner of his company wrote - unsuccessfully - to Dish about them having to try to resolve 129 issues in their market, and they couldn't believe the J/A DMA was put on 129 vs. one of the other options. Now that that series of new locals launched they're getting a whole new dose of problems like mine - for which they don't get paid (? - l took that to mean that if they couldn't get the added channels for the sub. they don't get paid for the job?) I also called his company after the job to report a favorable experience and result, even tho' I was worried that - as it turned out - it would only be temporary. But the encounter gave me hope for 129 and showed me where to be looking for it. And of course I got the extra D500 and LNB out of it...and a whole bunch more "school of hard knocks" learning...!

 

[Voyager6]

The 129 dish (D500) is not co-located with the other 2, but the cable runs to their location.

Is the D500 set up to use a single LNB with the I adapter? This will maximize the signal from the D500.

 

[Hemi 6.1]

Here's the CONUS coverage map for 129.
SatelliteGuys.US - Subscription 129°W

Depends on what you consider too low.

Well E*5 couldn't be picked up in Northeast PA, So thats where the 61.5 came into play.
Thats why I'm wondering if Ceil2 is Higher in the horizon.
Example, Directvs 119 is 32 degrees up from my location E* 119 is only 28. That makes D* line of sight much easier to get then E* in my area.
129 E*5 was only 17 degrees in elevation. Thats extreamly low for anyone not living on the edge of a 5000 foot cliff.

 

[bhelms]

Is the D500 set up to use a single LNB with the I adapter? This will maximize the signal from the D500.

No, and I had thought about that! There is a DP dual that's sitting off-center in the standard arm with an empty mounting slot next to it. I was concerned that being off center it would not be getting the max. signal, but I didn't ask the tech. For that price it's certainly worth a try! Tks for the referral!

 

[Voyager6]

No, and I had thought about that! There is a DP dual that's sitting off-center in the standard arm with an empty mounting slot next to it. I was concerned that being off center it would not be getting the max. signal, but I didn't ask the tech. For that price it's certainly worth a try! Tks for the referral!

You are welcome. I use a D500 with the I adapter for 61.5. It works great. Get the cheap signal meter and you are ready to peak.

 

[bhelms]

...129 E*5 was only 17 degrees in elevation. Thats extreamly low for anyone not living on the edge of a 5000 foot cliff.

I'm finding out that elevation has little to do with it. It's completely a matter of what's blocking LOS, and the closer the sat. is to the horizon the more likely that is to be a dequalifying factor. You could have a viable CONUS sat. at 5 deg. and in theory still have it workable for you as long as its path is completely clear.

But something else I have not seen mentioned - and it may or may not be a factor - the lower the elevation the more atmosphere a signal has to travel through, and that could (probably does) bring a whole bunch of additional debilitating factors like storms, humidity, dust, thermal differentials, etc. So I'm postulating that a strong signal from a sat. like 129 could still be a lot more variable than say a comparable signal from 61.5 or 77, etc. for those of us in these longitudes...

 

[digiblur]

Well E*5 couldn't be picked up in Northeast PA, So thats where the 61.5 came into play.
Thats why I'm wondering if Ceil2 is Higher in the horizon.
Example, Directvs 119 is 32 degrees up from my location E* 119 is only 28. That makes D* line of sight much easier to get then E* in my area.
129 E*5 was only 17 degrees in elevation. Thats extreamly low for anyone not living on the edge of a 5000 foot cliff.

And that's where the EA was born... lots of customers who don't have LOS in the NorthEast to DirecTV's birds.

The problem is, Rainbow1/E12 was not designed for as many spotbeams like E10 and Ciel-2 were. So they put the major markets up on spots on E12 due to higher population. Since Ciel-2 had idle spotbeams in the NorthEast, why not throw some markets up there so some people can get them?

Trust me..I feel your pain... I think the elevation of 129 even in my area sucks. I have a ton of true cover in my yard and had to put 129 on a Dish300 by itself in the yard. Easiest install I did was a BellExpress VU system here, 54 degrees elevation.

 

[Hemi 6.1]

Trust me..I feel your pain... I think the elevation of 129 even in my area sucks. I have a ton of true cover in my yard and had to put 129 on a Dish300 by itself in the yard. Easiest install I did was a BellExpress VU system here, 54 degrees elevation.

I'm not complaining though, Eastern Arc is really easy in my area to get a line of sight. But I'm stuck using a wing dish again. I Have a 500+ for the 110,118,119 so I have to use a 500 wing dish as well. I would just love to 1 dish to do it all. Not a 20 foot dish either