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manuelpaz

Last reply Nov 18, 2009 · posted in C-BAND Satellite Discussion

c band lnb rotation.

Hi all

I wonder from satellite 55w or 58w the c band lnb stay in the same posotion (no move the lnb) but now if i move the c band dish from 58 w to satmex6 ,do I have to rotate the c band lnb to the right or left or just leave it there.

I really thank u for any comments about this Satmex6.

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hd fan

Nov 8, 2009

manuelpaz said:
but now if i move the c band dish from 58 w to satmex6

I assumed that by If I move , the OP meant that he acctually moves the Dish himself like I do since I do not have an actuator or motor yet. More likely if the OP had a motorized setup he would have not asked this question since the Dish would have worked fine or would have used the word rotate. It is more likely that, like me, he has a polar mount without an actuator yet.

BTW BJ, I am also assuming that by Polar mount you mean a motorized setup and by Az/El you could also mean the same mount but without some kind of motor, Am I right or right? , lol.

Sellers sell 2 kind of C-Band mounts , Stationary and the Polar version, both of which out of the box could be called Az/El mounts since the Polar version does not come with an actuator arm. I just loosen the screws on the base of my mount and then rotate the dish on its pole to adjust the Az, therefore the need for Skew Adjustment for linnear Sats.

At the end BJ I agree with you, we should have either ask the OP or just mention the fact that motorized setups do not need skew adjustment. Man , after all this talk , now I want to get an actuator for mine!, lol.

Anole

Nov 15, 2009

For general info, use this page:

Footprints by Dish Size - Adjusting the Polar Mount for Prime Focus Antenna - C/Ku-Band Satellite Systems - Tuning, Tracking, Azimuth, Elevation, Declination Angles, F/D Ratio, Focal Distance, Inclinometer, LNB/Feedhorn Assembly, Actuator Assembly, C

I like the modified declination chart at the bottom of this page:

Footprints by Dish Size - Latitude Declination Chart - C/Ku-Band Satellite Listing

edit: oops, I had the links reversed... should be okay now.

hd fan

Nov 15, 2009

Thanks Anole. Now I see why there are 2 kinds of charts. 1 for the polar mount used by astronomers and the other one , the modified polar mount , used by us for satellite dishes. Therefore both are accurate depending the aplication. Dishpointer.com for instance for the true south parameters list 6.7 declination offset for my latitude consistent with the astronomers polar mount and they use the latitude as the elevation value. Valid for H-H motors BTW. IMHO for true south info they should have shown the modified parameters as per the chart you posted since normally a user with a H-H motor will select the type of motor directly from the drop down menu.

Anole

Nov 16, 2009

I'm talkin' BUDs:

Since we've never been able to set the numbers perfectly, I suspect either table is a good place to start.
Then, you dial it in by hand, depending on your experience.

Today, with very accurate digital inclinometers, you -can- set the declination right on the money and never touch it again.
Any error in the mount, is then tuned out by adjusting elevation.
And you have fewer variables to juggle, while fine-tuning the dish.

Expecting to accurately measure everything and have it all work right off the bat, is silly.
Chance are high, that there is some error (lnb off center? ) so you always have to do the final tweaks.
I'm sure professional installers come very close on the first try!
Most of us tune up two dishs (BUDs) ever, and never get that professional experience.
. . now if we did five BUDs a week . . . just imagine how easy it would be! -

B.J.

Nov 18, 2009

hd fan said:
...

BTW BJ, I am also assuming that by Polar mount you mean a motorized setup and by Az/El you could also mean the same mount but without some kind of motor, Am I right or right? , lol.

Sellers sell 2 kind of C-Band mounts , Stationary and the Polar version, both of which out of the box could be called Az/El mounts since the Polar version does not come with an actuator arm. I just loosen the screws on the base of my mount and then rotate the dish on its pole to adjust the Az, therefore the need for Skew Adjustment for linnear Sats.

........

Well, generally, an Az/El mount doesn't have the ability to be a polar mount, as there is generally no way for it to move if you attach an actuator. But you are right, that if you somehow lock a polar mount at the top of it's rotation axis, then you could use the latitude / inclination adjustment as elevation , and rotate the whole mount on the pole for azimuth. It would function as an Az/El this way, but it's still a polar mount. A real Az/El mount will never be a polar mount, however. It needs to have a rotation axis nearly parallel to the earth's axis to be a polar mount, and Az/El mounts are on a vertical pole.... no way to rotate around a polar axis.

hd fan said:
OH OH. I think I have a big misunderstanding of how the polar mount works and/or differences with the Az/EL Mount.

I am about to motorize my FS 6 footer with an arm actuator , 24 inches more likely. I will use the Gospell C/Univ Ku LNB. It is my understanding that as the arm extends the dish will not only rotate to get the proper azimuth but also will skew itself accordingly thanks to the declination setting probably therefore I will not need a servo based skewable LNB?.

Am I right? .....

Correct.

hd fan said:
ok after re-reading the C-Band FAQ I cleared my thoughts again. It is just that after playing today with the extreme sats and skewing manually for some reason I thought the actuator arm was not enough. but my polar mount is fixed therefore it a has a fixed plate attached that forces the dish to have 11 degrees of declination offset instead of the 6 or 6.7 that will have when the arm is installed. BTW as per some online sources the declination offset is 6.7 for 43.6N but as per a chart posted here it is 6 for 43.5 and 44N respectively. I wonder if the chart is inaccurate for around 44 degrees latitude.

I think your 6.7 vs 6.0 declination question was answered, but I'm confused about the 11 deg declination comment above. There will NEVER be a need for 11 degrees of declination. Even if you were at the north pole, the declination would only be about 8.6, and you can't even see any geostationary sats from there anyway, so even that declination isn't something that would be needed. Declination is a term that is only applicable if your dish rotates around an axis parallel (or nearly parallel as is the case for the modified declination method) to the earth's axis. You aren't doing that, so you aren't using declination by any stretch of the definition I can think of. You just have an elevation that is some strange combination of the mount inclination and the position you happened to lock the polar axis into.

hd fan

Nov 18, 2009

yeah I know BJ, it is just that since I assembled the Dish I have not played with the declination offset adjustment mostly because the fixed plate will not allow me to adjust it properly. I did not have an inclinometer either. I have not tried to adjust it and I even thought that I assembled the Dish somehow the wrong way the first day but I wanted to wait untill the day that I had to install an actuator. I will have to take pictures so you guys can tell me if it was wrongly assembled.

The point is that , the fixed plate , the way it is installed now (grabs the dish closer to the center) forces this declination to be 11 degrees. Like you said since my dish is stationary for now (no actuator), I do not need this declination , I just adjust the total elevation to the proper value, mount inclination + 11 in this case. before the inclinometer, it was me standing to the side of the dish and drawing a 90 degrees angle and dividing it by half untill necessary in the air , lol, the so called cuban inclinometer lol, forget the poor's man soda version that you guys posted here, that one it is still too expensive , lol.

I am glad you have replied to my posts and that I decided to talk about polar mounts since it forced me to search more about it and together with your valuable input now I have a better understanding of it. I will try this weekend to set the mount to true south and set the declination properly to my 6.7 value but I am afraid that I will have to change the length of the fixed plate for that. Like I said, on this FS 6 footer , the fixed plate that comes with the polar mount forces the Dish to be grabbed in 3 positions only (there are 3 holes on the horizontal bar only). BTW , this dish will only allow someone to do a West ARM installation since there are no holes on the horizontal bar to the left of the dish. It is ok for me since I live east of the Mississippi. And because the plate is fixed in length, that results in a fixed declination offset angle. You guys with actuators can lock the declination offset first and then move the actuator clamp accordingly probably. Besides if I remove the fixed plate alone , the Dish will "fall" rotating over the polar axis. I need that plate for now to lock the dish in place.

Now that I think about it I will have to revisit the whole assembly of the Dish carefully again, just in case. I am about to pull the trigger on motorizing my Dish so that revision is coming anyways.

Once again thanks for your valuable comments.

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dfergie

Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU!

Last reply 3 minutes ago · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Gas Price Info With National Gas Temperature Map

Stumbled across this ... http://www.gaspricewatch.com/USGas_ZipSearch.asp
I found no local prices, although it did show stations at my location...
Added these to this post...
USA National Gas Temperature Map
State By State Gasoline Taxes
Gas Buddy

Ethanol Free Stations

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dfergie

Oct 31, 2026

$4.04 most places, Diesel $5.85...

Bobby

Yesterday at 11:49 AM

Regular$5.459
Premium$5.899
Diesel$7.999
at Costco, Rohnert Park.

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dishstaller

Yesterday at 11:59 AM

Billboard along I-10 had reg at $3.81 and diesel at $5.54

Bobby

42 minutes ago

Regular$5.399
Premium$5.899
Diesel$7.999
at Costco, Rohnert Park.

osu1991

3 minutes ago

$3.55

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TWiT Tech Podcast Network

30 minutes ago · posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Claude Designed a Linux Kernel Exploit in 53 Minutes #shorts

Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/H5w96sy17FM

Direct YouTube Link - Claude Designed a Linux Kernel Exploit in 53 Minutes #shorts
TWIT's Website
TWIT Live Feed

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Scott Greczkowski

Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge

Last reply 41 minutes ago · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Song Name Game Part 3!

Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne

Get it?

An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....

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ClarkGable

Yesterday at 8:18 PM

To Know Him Is To Love Him - The Teddy Bears

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long_time_Dish

Yesterday at 9:21 PM

Really Wanna Know You - Gary Wright

hwkn

Today at 2:43 AM

Don't WANNA KNOW-Maroon 5

harshness

Today at 9:51 AM

I Want to Know What Love Is - Foreigner

Bobby

41 minutes ago

Oh What A Night For Dancing - Barry White

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KyL416

Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Pub Member / Supporter Cutting Edge

Last reply Today at 10:46 AM · posted in DIRECTV Programming Forum

Genre Packs from DIRECTV

https://www.directv.com/insider/mysports-changes-the-game/
https://streamtv.directv.com/mysports/ (You might have to logout or open a private window to see the details)
As of now this is only available for streaming customers in select markets. Existing streaming customers can switch to it for $69.99, but they are not eligible for the $20 off for 3 months discount. More genre-specific packages will launch during the first half of the year.

At launch, MySports includes 40 sports and broadcast channels and is initially available in 24 metro areas, including New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Philadelphia, San Francisco Bay Area, and others. Click here for more information and the list of initial launch markets. The availability of MySports will expand into additional markets as DIRECTV adds more local stations to the package.

The streamlined MySports package includes national and local channels in select markets, as well as live news channels.

National sports channels immediately available through MySports include ACC Network, Big Ten Network, DIRECTV 4K Live, DIRECTV 4K Live 2, ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNews, ESPNU, Fox Sports 1, Fox Sports 2, Golf Channel, MLB Network, NBA TV, NFL Network, NHL Network, SEC Network, TBS, TNT, TruTV and USA Network. Local channels will initially include any stations owned and operated by ABC, FOX, and NBC, with additional stations coming online soon.

Additional networks, local stations and ESPN+, will be included in MySports at no extra cost in the near future.

Consumers who sign up online for the contract-free package before Feb. 28, 2025, can receive MySports for $49.99 monthly for the first three months, a $20 monthly savings. After the free trial, it auto-renews monthly, and consumers can cancel anytime.

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KyL416

May 26, 2026

They recently split the news channels off of MySports, so CNBC, CNN, FBN, FNC and MSNOW are no longer part of it.

MySports was decreased to $64.99, and a new "MySports+MyNews Duo" pack is $79.99, which will also give you Bloomberg, CNBC World, CNNI, the C-SPANs, i24 and Newsmax.

Tennis Channel also joined MySports at some point over the past year.

Curtis0620

Jun 16, 2026

KyL416 said:
They recently split the news channels off of MySports, so CNBC, CNN, FBN, FNC and MSNOW are no longer part of it.

MySports was decreased to $64.99, and a new "MySports+MyNews Duo" pack is $79.99, which will also give you Bloomberg, CNBC World, CNNI, the C-SPANs, i24 and Newsmax.

Tennis Channel also joined MySports at some point over the past year.

AMC+ now included in MyEntertainment Pack. I guess we know why the $8 price increase.

KyL416

Jun 16, 2026

Here's the Insider article. Shudder is now part of MyCinema and Fanatiz1 was added to the Spanish packages last Friday. PX Sports was also added a few weeks ago.

It's not just AMC+ driving the price increases on the genre packs, the rest of the AMC Networks (AMC, WE, IFC, Sundance, BBC America), along with Paramount/CBS, Hallmark, Weigel and others joined since they debuted last year.

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KyL416

Yesterday at 10:35 PM

MySports now has some CW affiliates, and MyNews now has some CW affiliates and the MyNetworkTV O&Os.

At quick check, it looks like the CBS and Sinclair owned CW affiliates are missing.

Curtis0620

Today at 10:46 AM

KyL416 said:
MySports now has some CW affiliates, and MyNews now has some CW affiliates and the MyNetworkTV O&Os.

At quick check, it looks like the CBS and Sinclair owned CW affiliates are missing.

No Hearst owned CW in Orlando

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osu1991

Pub Member / Supporter

Last reply Today at 10:29 AM · posted in The Chit Chat Club

EV News

America’s Fastest-Growing EV State Isn’t California—Not by a Long Shot

New data shows electric vehicle adoption is increasingly driven by state policies, electricity prices and charging access—not federal incentives

www.autoweek.com

The number-one US state for EV growth, according to the June 22 Yardi report?
Oklahoma.

:eek

It has no ZEV mandates and "minimal" incentives, Yardi says, but also has cheap electricity, high multi-car household rates (so, for example, a non-Lightning Ford F-150 pulls their trailers), and a consumer base willing to switch.

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meStevo

Oct 31, 2026

View: https://youtu.be/z1-G2Qn9F1Q

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osu1991

Sunday at 2:08 PM

View: https://x.com/itskyleconner/status/2116861127883702684?a=dBYY7Yu2XtKD-LA0vzo&s=20

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osu1991

Yesterday at 11:30 AM

The Tesla Cybertruck Is Dead, The Ford F-150 Lives - The Autopian

The Cybertruck was supposed to make the F-150 obsolete. It wasn’t supposed to be boring, like a Ford or a Chevy. It was supposed to be “more truck than truck.” It turns out, people just wanted trucks that were trucks, and CEO Elon Musk announced on X earlier this morning is that the Cybertruck...

www.theautopian.com

The Cybertruck was supposed to make the F-150 obsolete. It wasn't supposed to be boring, like a Ford or a Chevy. It was supposed to be "more truck than truck." It turns out, people just wanted trucks that were trucks, and CEO Elon Musk announced on X earlier this morning is that the Cybertruck is dying.

Ending production in middle of next year at gigatexas for cybercab production.

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dishstaller

Yesterday at 12:09 PM

IF they had made the cyber truck more like a conventional truck, more would have bought it. There is a REASON trucks all have a very similar layout....it's what people want AND it serves the purposes those of us who have a truck needs.

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harshness

Today at 10:29 AM

dishstaller said:
There is a REASON trucks all have a very similar layout....it's what people want AND it serves the purposes those of us who have a truck needs.

As it is, most consumers buy trucks as comfortable transportation rather than commercial utility. The Cybertruck approach to that goal was way out in left field. It turned out to be more of an austere sedan with awful daily-driver attributes (visibility, parking). The expectations regarding truck durability were dashed early on.

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Neutron

Supporting Founder

Last reply Today at 10:07 AM · posted in Computers and Gadgets

Apple HomePod Home Automation

Does anyone here use Apple Home/HomeKit with HomePods or Apple TV to automate smart devices in their house? We have had Amazon's Alexa set up in our house for the last 10+ years and I have been waiting to switch them out to Apple for a few reasons; We are already in the Apple ecosystem with our phones, tablets, and computers. I have never liked Amazon's stance on privacy and I really like that Apple has pushed for privacy for a long time.

I bought 4 of the new HomePod Mini 2 speakers to go in various rooms in our house and we have one of the new Apple TVs on preorder that will be the start of me replacing our Rokus. I have the HomePod Mini 2s set up and have an RPi that is running HomeBridge for our legacy smart devices that worked natively with Alexa but don't work with Apple Home natively. I had trouble with the older smart bulbs not keeping the brightness or light color consistent with what our routines were with Alexa despite trying every setting in HomeBridge with the bulbs just not shining very bright. I ended up replacing them with updated versions that are Matter compatible so they work in Apple Home natively. That in and of itself has been interesting to set up because I have my home network segretated with the IoT devices on their own vlan and wifi and pretty locked down. Matter requires IPv6 and due to how my home network is designed I had to do some digging with AI to figure out how to make it all work correctly.

Apple Home definitely has some shortcomings that Alexa does much better with but I am hoping Apple will continue to improve their Home products and introduce features that will bring it closer to the functionality of Alexa.

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b4pjoe

Yesterday at 3:44 PM

I tried HomeKit to be able to see my Ring cameras on my Apple TV as they are not supported natively on Apple devices. The best I could get was to be able to view the cameras live but I could not view any recordings. After the last major update version of HomeKit I could not even view the live cameras anymore. I gave up on it after that. If I were going to do it again I would only buy devices that can work on Apple devices natively as HomeKit didn't work well at all for me.

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Neutron

Yesterday at 4:01 PM

b4pjoe said:
I tried HomeKit to be able to see my Ring cameras on my Apple TV as they are not supported natively on Apple devices. The best I could get was to be able to view the cameras live but I could not view any recordings. After the last major update version of HomeKit I could not even view the live cameras anymore. I gave up on it after that. If I were going to do it again I would only buy devices that can work on Apple devices natively as HomeKit didn't work well at all for me.

That's what I started doing after seeing legacy devices work hit or miss using the HomeBridge. At least Apple is following a standard now with Matter which is unusual for Apple. Looks like HomeBridge does allow you to see the live views but I haven't seen how to view past recordings. I'd really like to ditch Ring altogether due to their stance on privacy and if I had my choice I'd go with UniFi since that's what I use for my network and I like the idea of my camera recordings being all local and not in the cloud. UniFi doorbells and cameras are quite pricey though.

I'll try to access the Ring doorbells in Apple Home for now but I'll see if it's useful any.

Foxbat

Yesterday at 4:20 PM

I found that the IoT devices need to see the Apple TV to be able to use it as the HomeKit Hub. Unfortunately, that means being in the same IPv4 subnet.

I was thinking of getting a HomePod Mini for my Mother-in-Law to play music and set up HomeKit scenes, as well as make FaceTime Audio calls. When Apple announced their price rises due to RAMageddon, I kicked myself as they went up 50% in cost. I'll be curious to see the HomeView in person as this might not be a bad way to get her started on automation.

She asked about it because her friends have Alexa and they use it to control lights. But like you, I feel better putting in a HomePod or HomeView that's listening for commands instead of Amazon or Google.

b4pjoe

Yesterday at 4:28 PM

Neutron said:
That's what I started doing after seeing legacy devices work hit or miss using the HomeBridge.

Homebridge is what I meant when I said HomeKit. Forgot the name of it.

harshness

Today at 10:07 AM

I find that I don't interact with my home automation system (Hubitat Elevation) as much as I thought I would.

Apple made everything more expensive and less flexible with its "our way or the highway" approach. To be sure, a Homebridge server addresses some of the major deficiencies, but it seems like it will always be a battle to keep pasting things together.

b4pjoe

Pub Member / Supporter Cutting Edge

Last reply Today at 9:55 AM · posted in Computers and Gadgets

Fox Is Buying Roku in $22 Billion Deal

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Neutron

Yesterday at 3:04 PM

Another reason I'm glad we are swapping or Rokus out for Apple TVs. I was already planning on ditching the Rokus earlier this year and had been waiting on Apple to announce the new one last month. Our Rokus have had issues the last year or so with freezing video and reboots, and one with an HDCP issue randomly.

Reactions: AZ. and navychop

primestar31

Yesterday at 8:33 PM

Neutron said:
Another reason I'm glad we are swapping or Rokus out for Apple TVs. I was already planning on ditching the Rokus earlier this year and had been waiting on Apple to announce the new one last month. Our Rokus have had issues the last year or so with freezing video and reboots, and one with an HDCP issue randomly.

Lol, I'm watching an Apple Tv ON my TCL Roku tv set... I use it as a client for my Channels DVR.

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TRG

Yesterday at 9:50 PM

Neutron said:
Another reason I'm glad we are swapping or Rokus out for Apple TVs. I was already planning on ditching the Rokus earlier this year and had been waiting on Apple to announce the new one last month. Our Rokus have had issues the last year or so with freezing video and reboots, and one with an HDCP issue randomly.

Hmmm... I don't have any of those problems with my Roku devices. I have 3 of them.

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navychop

Yesterday at 10:36 PM

I suspect Fox will make me consider 2-3 more Apple TV STB purchases.

harshness

Today at 9:48 AM

navychop said:
I suspect Fox will make me consider 2-3 more Apple TV STB purchases.

Until I can get a mortgage on an ATV, I doubt that's going to happen for me.

As much as the price has gone up, the complaints on the forums about this, that, and the other nits surrounding various limitations and Apple business decisions seem to be keeping pace.

Jimbo

Today at 9:55 AM

TRG said:
Hmmm... I don't have any of those problems with my Roku devices. I have 3 of them.

I have the Roku's, 2 or 3, I just rarely use them ... I prefer the Google/Android Sony set up.

People tell me that the Apps on the TV will end thier usefulness as they age ... They are doing ok for me so far ... I also have the TV take the App Updates whenever possible ... then again, I don't know how often App updates come to it.

So, so far, I'm doing ok, but if they start to get sluggish, I'll eventually change to a Roku ... I don't want to, but eventually ... (Or buy another new TV :eeek

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TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Today at 9:52 AM · posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Club TWiT: Media Club #4 - Project Hail Mary

Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifSf_eHb6Qg

Direct YouTube Link - Club TWiT: Media Club #4 - Project Hail Mary
TWIT's Website
TWIT Live Feed

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garyreno

Today at 9:48 AM · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

Updated to H715 on a Hopper 3 from H713

After a strange reboot last night in the middle of viewing, this morning several more reboots and about a half an hour download.

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TheForce

Supporting Founder Pub Member / Supporter

Last reply Today at 3:45 AM · posted in The Phone & Tablet Zone

Apple Event September 2026

Apple Fall Hardware Event takes place today, September 9, 2026, at 10:00 a.m. PT / 1:00 p.m. ET. It marks the debut of new CEO John Ternus and the expected reveal of Apple's first foldable phone.

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harshness

Oct 27, 2026

Gone are the days when Apple "perfects" what debuted years earlier on an Android phone.

comfortably_numb

Oct 27, 2026

harshness said:
Gone are the days when Apple "perfects" what debuted years earlier on an Android phone.

Or better yet, innovate something "completely revolutionary!"

Reactions: slow_poke_pete

slow_poke_pete

Oct 29, 2026

comfortably_numb said:
Or better yet, innovate something "completely revolutionary!"

when was the last time they innovated something

Foxbat

Oct 29, 2026

slow_poke_pete said:
when was the last time they innovated something

I'd probably say when they came up with their M-series of processors with integrated memory. That allowed Apple to get away from the inefficient Intel CPUs that were limiting their notebook computers.

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slow_poke_pete

Sunday at 9:25 PM

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqxPfHDwjm8

Foxbat

Yesterday at 4:53 PM

Well, Munro and Associates are now a go-to for mobile device teardowns! Who knew? They have an idea what may be causing the iPhone Duo's inside folding screen to fail 40% up from the bottom:

Reactions: slow_poke_pete

slow_poke_pete

Today at 3:45 AM

samsung made the screen apple designed the hinge for the duo. this has got to be the best advertising campaign for samsung :biggrin

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