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Bodo Fenrirsson

Last reply Dec 20, 2009 · posted in General Home Theater Equipment

Moxi Versus TiVo

I'm considering buying a TiVo HD DVR. I've seen Moxi's new [non-cable company provided] HD DVR on the internet though. The Moxi HD DVR seems more expensive than TiVo's HD XL DVR(which I have considered,but would rather go with the HD DVR & add an external hard drive),but there is no monthly fee. TiVo is cheaper,but you have a monthly fee(I'd rather just pay up front for the whole year). Anybody familiar with both DVR's have any advice. I'd be using either DVR with a Cablecard & Charter cable.

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bicker

Dec 17, 2009

At this point, I look at the Moxi as a rebel's choice. It is the only serious competition TiVo has, and it has some advantages, but the long-term view puts TiVo in the driver's seat. Digeo recently sold the Moxi line because they cannot make money on it. How well will it be supported over time? Who knows? Meanwhile, TiVo also cannot make money, but has a decade-long history of supporting their product anyway.

By the way, you can pay $399 extra up-front and never have to pay a monthly fee with TiVo.

riffjim4069

Dec 17, 2009

bicker said:
At this point, I look at the Moxi as a rebel's choice. It is the only serious competition TiVo has, and it has some advantages, but the long-term view puts TiVo in the driver's seat. Digeo recently sold the Moxi line because they cannot make money on it. How well will it be supported over time? Who knows? Meanwhile, TiVo also cannot make money, but has a decade-long history of supporting their product anyway.

By the way, you can pay $399 extra up-front and never have to pay a monthly fee with TiVo.

But the Tivo lifetime subscription is in addition buying the hardware. IMO, the Moxi is less espensive to own since they dropped the prices down to $499...with no subscription fees. Of course, just how long a "lifetime" will be for the Moxi is unknown as you mentioned.

bicker

Dec 17, 2009

riffjim4069 said:
But the Tivo lifetime subscription is in addition buying the hardware. IMO, the Moxi is less espensive to own since they dropped the prices down to $499...with no subscription fees. Of course, just how long a "lifetime" will be for the Moxi is unknown as you mentioned.

Indeed... The fact that the Moxi -- all in -- was more expensive than the TiVo -- all in -- was ridiculous. With the situation now reversed, there is a better match between the price being charged and the value being offered. However, again, it really comes down to whether or not you want to be the guinea pig for something new, or whether you want to pay a little more and latch onto the more well-established bandwagon. Regardless of which choice you make, either way, it absolutely is a risk. Neither company is making money on these units. As such, their future is always in question. Having said that, I tend to doubt that the TiVo, at least, would cease operations -- given its recent legal successes and its firmly-established reputation in the marketplace, at worst, someone stronger will buy it, and so legacy TiVo owners will be supported regardless, in accordance with the current terms and conditions.

bicker

Dec 17, 2009

harshness said:
The problem with this theory is that the longer the litigation goes on (and I wouldn't use the term "success" in any event), the less likely TiVo will be able to hold on to some of their most important IP. The Patent Office is making some rumbles about the overly broad language of some of the the patents so I can see it going either way.

I think you're giving way too much credit to the concerns. TiVo's legal proceedings have gone in their favor. No question people are upset about that and trying to undercut it -- it would be shocking if that was not the case.

Regardless, TiVo's IP is worth far far far far far more than Moxi's.

harshness said:
As the TiVo service isn't a money maker and TiVo is the more likely candidate for a buy-out,

Which means the service is supported. As opposed to just terminating the product line, in which case support would be cut-off.

harshness said:
I'd be equally or more concerned about future hardware support from TiVo

I cannot account for that misjudgment. It isn't even a matter of your lack of confidence regarding TiVo -- I can understand that -- but rather I cannot account for your over-estimation regarding Moxi.

harshness

Dec 18, 2009

bicker said:
Which means the service is supported. As opposed to just terminating the product line, in which case support would be cut-off.

I think it is silly to assume that the TiVo service would continue through a buy-out. If it doesn't make money (and clearly the service isn't a profit machine) or the buyer is interested only in brokering (or flushing down the toilet ala Microsoft) the IP, it goes away.

I cannot account for that misjudgment.

You haven't shown where it is flawed.

-- but rather I cannot account for your over-estimation regarding Moxi.

I'm not overestimating Moxi. I claim that it is their lack of various attractive attributes that makes them less of a candidate for a change of ownership.

bicker

Dec 18, 2009

harshness said:
I think it is silly to assume that the TiVo service would continue through a buy-out.

When a company is sold to another company, the acquiring company inherits all of the acquired company's liabilities. The only way to avoid that is to wait for Chapter 7 liquidation, and it is clear that TiVo's IP is worth enough to ensure that it won't get that far.

harshness said:
You haven't shown where it is flawed.I'm not overestimating Moxi. I claim that it is their lack of various attractive attributes that makes them less of a candidate for a change of ownership.

That's silly. They've already been subject to a change in ownership.

jayn_j

Dec 18, 2009

bicker said:
When a company is sold to another company, the acquiring company inherits all of the acquired company's liabilities. The only way to avoid that is to wait for Chapter 7 liquidation, and it is clear that TiVo's IP is worth enough to ensure that it won't get that far.

I can easily think of a half dozen ways of getting out of the lifetime service contract liability. The trendy one right now would be to spin off a new company that holds the IP and possibly the software core, and then let the product company have the TIVO boxes as well as the liability for the service contracts. You can then let that company go chapter7 and still protect the IP and software core.

Just ask GM.

bicker

Dec 18, 2009

jayn_j said:
You can then let that company go chapter7 ...

The point is that TiVo IP is worth enough that it won't get that far.

jayn_j

Dec 18, 2009

bicker said:
The point is that TiVo IP is worth enough that it won't get that far.

Bicker, do you have stock options? Your responses to this and other threads seem to indicate some kind of insider bias to TIVO and certain cable interests.

I got your point. You missed my point that a buyer could easily structure so as to let the costly support stuff die while preserving the valuable IP.

bicker

Dec 18, 2009

jayn_j said:
Bicker, do you have [TiVo] stock options? Your responses to this and other threads seem to indicate some kind of insider bias to TIVO and certain cable interests.

No financial interests or bias to TiVo except as a mostly-but-not-totally satisfied customer.

With regard to "certain cable interests", I have an array of shares stemming from my career at Bell Labs which ended over 15 years ago... so those started out as AT&T shares, and morphed into little itty bitty financial interests in just about every company in the industry: Liberty Entertainment, Liberty Media, Discovery Communications, Alcatel-Lucent, Ascent Media, etc.

Could you please post a list of your stock holdings now? Thanks!

jayn_j said:
I got your point. You missed my point that a buyer could easily structure so as to let the costly support stuff die while preserving the valuable IP.

No I didn't miss your point; I rejected your assertion of its significance in the context of a comparison to Moxi. In other words, all that is relevant to the specific message was the comparison between the two. If the two were the same with regard to some aspect, then that aspect is not relevant to the comparison. What's relevant to the comparison is where things are different.

jayn_j

Dec 19, 2009

bicker said:
Could you please post a list of your stock holdings now? Thanks!

Certainly. I went all in several years ago on a start-up. It eventually failed when my wife's cancer became critical and I neglected the business to tend to her during her final months. I lost everything, including the house and my 401K. I have worthless stock in my companies (Smart Sensor Systems - Home and Complete Test, When you need Test and Measurement done right) I also still have a small amount of employee stock from HP and Agilent. I currently rent, and wander around the country, supporting my two kids with engineering contract work.

bicker said:
No I didn't miss your point; I rejected your assertion of its significance in the context of a comparison to Moxi. In other words, all that is relevant to the specific message was the comparison between the two. If the two were the same with regard to some aspect, then that aspect is not relevant to the comparison. What's relevant to the comparison is where things are different.

Sorry, but you made he assertion that a TIVO subscription was good as gold because of the IP. I disagreed and gave a scenario where the IP would be protected while the users were left hanging. I actually see that as a likely scenario, thus making both suspect in the long run.

Amiga

Dec 19, 2009

bicker said:
given its recent legal successes and its firmly-established reputation in the marketplace, at worst, someone stronger will buy it, and so legacy TiVo owners will be supported regardless, in accordance with the current terms and conditions.

I don't see much risk in purchasing a TiVo. DIRECTV is still supporting the ReplayTV boxes out there that haven't been produced in years. In fact, DIRECTV pumped out a software update that addressed the DST change. If a media company, like DIRECTV, bought TiVo down the road, I'm sure they will already be paying for the guide data for their current portfolio of products. Zero ReplayTV support and free guide data ain't breaking the bank at DIRECTV.

bicker

Dec 19, 2009

jayn_j said:
I currently rent, and wander around the country, supporting my two kids with engineering contract work.

Thanks for providing some context for your bitterness against the industry. Sorry for your misfortunes.

jayn_j said:
Sorry, but you made he assertion that a TIVO subscription was good as gold because of the IP.

No, I never said anything about being "good as gold". Those are your words not mine. I made very specific statements. If you have a problem with them, then please argue against them instead of something easier to argue against. :tux:

What I said was that TiVo's IP made it very likely that TiVo would be acquired prior to any need for Chapter 7 liquidation. They'd likely either be sold outright, or be sold in Chapter 11 bankruptcy. And as such, the buyer would be obligated to continue providing service as per TiVo's liabilities. You're welcome to your opposing opinion.

bicker

Dec 19, 2009

Amiga said:
I don't see much risk in purchasing a TiVo. DIRECTV is still supporting the ReplayTV boxes out there that haven't been produced in years.

Thanks for mentioning DirecTV. TiVo, of course, has a venture underway with DirecTV for a new DirecTiVo. If it is anything like the last DirecTiVo, it will use the same service operations as the stand-alone TiVo's do, so effectively the health of Liberty Media helps bolster the likelihood that TiVo will do well once it comes to the end of its run as an independent company.

jayn_j

Dec 19, 2009

bicker said:
Thanks for providing some context for your bitterness against the industry. Sorry for your misfortunes.

Uh, now who is putting words in mouths? I never said anything about being bitter. If you had bothered to look at the links provided, you would have seen that my company was in a totally unrelated industry (electronic test and measurement) I took a shot, and it didn't work out.

I do not have any interest in consumer A/V products, except as a consumer. I try to keep an open mind on all of this.

bicker said:
No, I never said anything about being "good as gold". Those are your words not mine. I made very specific statements. If you have a problem with them, then please argue against them instead of something easier to argue against. :tux:

What I said was that TiVo's IP made it very likely that TiVo would be acquired prior to any need for Chapter 7 liquidation. They'd likely either be sold outright, or be sold in Chapter 11 bankruptcy. And as such, the buyer would be obligated to continue providing service as per TiVo's liabilities. You're welcome to your opposing opinion.

The two bolded phrases are the only place where we differ. In earlier responses and here, you keep saying that the buyer is OBLIGATED t continue service. I simply pointed out an alternate scenario. It is a scenario that has been used many imes in the recent past to rid a company of its toxic assets. And TIVOs lifetime service obligation is toxic to anyone buying that "significant" IP. I never said his is what would happen, only that it could and thus creates risk to TIVO purchasers as well.

bicker

Dec 19, 2009

jayn_j said:
Uh, now who is putting words in mouths? I never said anything about being bitter.

That was my perception based on many of your earlier comments... if not bitter at this industry, then bitter at consumer service industries in general. That's just the message I'm getting from reading what you wrote. Sorry if that's off-target.

jayn_j said:
In earlier responses and here, you keep saying that the buyer is OBLIGATED t continue service.

No I didn't. I outlined a very specific set of conditions on that, which you've chose to omit in your attempts to restate my points -- that's why I've been getting the impression that you're bitter toward industry: You seem to just focus on half of the statements, and leave off the half that is necessary to understand and see the truth of the entire statement. Again, I'm sorry if my assumption in that regard is off-target.

To be clear, a company that acquires the assets of another company directly, or through bankruptcy, is required to honor the liabilities of the company acquired. That's the law -- there should be no confusion about that.

jayn_j said:
I simply pointed out an alternate scenario.

An exceedingly unlikely scenario, Chapter 7 liquidation, given the demonstrated value of TiVo's IP, given that Moxi, which has a lot less going for it, in terms of intrinsic value, was recently acquired directly -- not through liquidation. Yet you've refused to acknowledge these realities. Again, I'm sorry that this evokes assumptions in my mind that you say are in error.

harshness

Dec 20, 2009

Contemplate the level of support offered by DIRECTV for ReplayTV and see if your opinions/attitudes aren't impacted when theorizing about what would happen.

After you've done that, imagine how a level of service like that would impact the average TiVo user.

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TWiT Tech Podcast Network

15 minutes ago · posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Xbox Rumored Game Pass Overhaul

Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/PAhrLR-6dec

Direct YouTube Link - Xbox Rumored Game Pass Overhaul
TWIT's Website
TWIT Live Feed

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TRG

Pub Member / Supporter

Last reply 35 minutes ago · posted in Computers and Gadgets

Starlink Router question

I set up a music server for my brother a few years ago. It's basically a small headless computer but it needs to have a DHCP IP address reserved for it in the router settings. This was easy to do in his DSL router. He's switching to Starlink now and I was wondering if these setting are easily accessible in the Starlink router. I'm pretty sure he will be getting the latest V5 router.

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b4pjoe

35 minutes ago

TRG said:
I set up a music server for my brother a few years ago. It's basically a small headless computer but it needs to have a DHCP IP address reserved for it in the router settings. This was easy to do in his DSL router. He's switching to Starlink now and I was wondering if these setting are easily accessible in the Starlink router. I'm pretty sure he will be getting the latest V5 router.

If you can't get into the router to reserve an IP address just don't use DHCP on the device that needs connected and assign it to a specific IP address in the network settings.

jamieh1

Last reply 46 minutes ago · posted in DIRECTV Programming Forum

NHL game channels

Looks like DTV made a deal. I'm now getting it on ch 650. The tv promise slate is gone.

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Mr Tony

Today at 9:13 AM

A few teams got a deal. Was posted yesterday in the Directv update thread

https://www.satelliteguys.us/xen/th...p-data-10-21-2026.402660/page-44#post-5109885

KyL416

51 minutes ago

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rel...-louis-blues-regional-channels-302918682.html

DIRECTV today announced a new multi-year distribution agreement with the National Hockey League for Hurricanes Hockey Network, Blue Jackets Hockey Network, Wild+, and Blue Note+ pregame, postgame, and in-game live sports services.

Each of the four channels will be available to DIRECTV streaming and satellite customers who live in each team's NHL-designated home territory and subscribe to Choice and higher packages, and each U-verse customer in those same regions who subscribes to U200 and above.

This agreement also provides distribution rights to each NHL team to all of DIRECTV FOR BUSINESS's thousands of sports bars, restaurants, fitness clubs, and other commercial venues located within each team's respective region.

DIRECTV has recently obtained regional or local rights to provide 76 of the 81 U.S.-based NHL, NBA, or MLB franchises to their local fans, including multi-year agreements for 23 U.S.-based hockey teams.

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jamieh1

46 minutes ago

Now let's get the NBA game channels going.

Scott Greczkowski

Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge

Last reply 55 minutes ago · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Song Name Game Part 3!

Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne

Get it?

An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....

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hwkn

Today at 2:37 AM

TAKE On ME-A-Ha

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ClarkGable

Today at 6:51 AM

On Broadway - George Benson

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Bobby

Today at 10:54 AM

Stay In Time - Off Broadway USA

harshness

Today at 11:03 AM

Just In Time - Tony Bennett

gms49ers

55 minutes ago

Just Get Through This Night - Styx

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Linus Tech Tips

Today at 1:32 PM · posted in Linus Tech Tips

dbrand Forced me to do This Review

Time for another AWESOME video from Linus Tech Tips!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DN953UW8iJ8

Direct YouTube Link - dbrand Forced me to do This Review
Linus on Facebook
The LTT Store

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dishstaller

Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter

Last reply Today at 1:20 PM · posted in The Chit Chat Club

You can't even trust the cost per ounce info in grocery stores anymore

I'm surprised Walmart hasn't banned this guy from all of their stores. He has been on their CASE the past few months.

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/f3zr37ekgKM?feature=share

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telstar_1

Wednesday at 2:22 PM

Juan said:
You are paying for the whole thing

Well, the bag can't weigh that much, right? But by law food product packaging must display the actual net weight of the product, i.e., the contents of the container, so by any logic, if not law, a store's stated per-ounce cost should reflect that figure. But since there's not any law regulating shelf statements, a store can say whatever it wants without violating any rules. So I guess the answer is more consumer legislation. Or simply caveat emptor.

Jimbo

Wednesday at 6:26 PM

telstar_1 said:
Well, the bag can't weigh that much, right? But by law food product packaging must display the actual net weight of the product, i.e., the contents of the container, so by any logic, if not law, a store's stated per-ounce cost should reflect that figure. But since there's not any law regulating shelf statements, a store can say whatever it wants without violating any rules. So I guess the answer is more consumer legislation. Or simply caveat emptor.

I would think that the Vendor/Maker of the product would have a say in it, showing the Correct weight ...
You would think it would be in the contract.

I do look at the ounces of items, but unless its way off, I don't check the math, may have to start now.

Remember when you use to get a 13.5 oz bag of Chips .... Thats a PARTY Size now.

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TRG

Wednesday at 6:41 PM

Jimbo said:
I would think that the Vendor/Maker of the product would have a say in it, showing the Correct weight ...
You would think it would be in the contract.

I do look at the ounces of items, but unless its way off, I don't check the math, may have to start now.

Remember when you use to get a 13.5 oz bag of Chips .... Thats a PARTY Size now.

I remember when a pound of coffee was 16oz. Now its 12oz, they don't call it a pound anymore and its three times the cost of the 16oz pound.

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Jimbo

Wednesday at 7:05 PM

TRG said:
I remember when a pound of coffee was 16oz. Now its 12oz, they don't call it a pound anymore and its three times the cost of the 16oz pound.

Well, they don't call it a pound anymore ....

Ice cream is that way too, use to be a half gallon, now its 1.5 quart or some say 48 oz

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NYDutch

Wednesday at 7:39 PM

Jimbo said:
Well, they don't call it a pound anymore ....

Ice cream is that way too, use to be a half gallon, now its 1.5 quart or some say 48 oz

We have a regional ice cream company here that advertises that their ice cream containers are still a full half gallon.

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Jimbo

Wednesday at 8:54 PM

NYDutch said:
We have a regional ice cream company here that advertises that their ice cream containers are still a full half gallon.

Now check and see if any of them (probably a few) are actual Ice Cream ...

Most Ice Creams are Not actual Ice Cream.
Bryers for example, call Most of thiers "Frozen Dairy Dessert"

TRG

Yesterday at 8:38 PM

Jimbo said:
Now check and see if any of them (probably a few) are actual Ice Cream ...

Most Ice Creams are Not actual Ice Cream.
Bryers for example, call Most of thiers "Frozen Dairy Dessert"

I only buy Tillamook and Alden's ice cream. The first ingredients are milk and cream.

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Jimbo

Yesterday at 9:20 PM

TRG said:
I only buy Tillamook and Alden's ice cream. The first ingredients are milk and cream.

$7.50 a 1/2 gallon, thats worse than Bryers price wise.

Jimbo

Yesterday at 9:23 PM

TRG said:
I only buy Tillamook and Alden's ice cream. The first ingredients are milk and cream.

1st Big Question is ... How Much Sugar is in it and Sodium and Carbs ...
I' m really not suppose to have Ice Cream, or at least Moderately ....
Depending on the amount of sugar and sodium (don't think theres sodium in it, but Carbs probably is.)

Jimbo

Yesterday at 9:24 PM

Jimbo said:
$7.50 a 1/2 gallon, thats worse than Bryers price wise.

I'll give that a try next time, if I can find some in the right sugar areas.

Bobby

Yesterday at 9:37 PM

$5.69 for the 48oz of Rocky Road at my Walmart.

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Bobby

Yesterday at 9:40 PM

Jimbo said:
I'll give that a try next time, if I can find some in the right sugar areas.

22g per serving.

Juan

Yesterday at 9:51 PM

Bobby said:
22g per serving.

How much is a serving?

Bobby

Yesterday at 9:58 PM

Juan said:
How much is a serving?

2/3 of a cup, a large scoop.

Jimbo

Yesterday at 11:01 PM

Bobby said:
$5.69 for the 48oz of Rocky Road at my Walmart.

Apparently my local Walmart doesn't carry that brand Tillamook ...
Kroger does .... Vanilla Bean $7.49 for 1.5 quart

Up here I have options of :
Vanilla Bean, French Vanilla, Cookies and Cream, Mud Slide and Strawberry

I will try the Strawberry and see what I think, IF the Sugar isn't any more than 22g ... it's Quite expensive.

Target does show it, cheaper, $5.99, however thier website says Not Sold in Store, closest store that carries it is 39 Miles away ....
I guess I better wait till WINTER to get it .. if it's that far away.

I'll have to check and see if Meijer has it ... YES they do ... $7.49 and a variety of Flavors

navychop

Today at 9:33 AM

Bobby said:
2/3 of a cup, a large scoop.

Awwww. You missed your chance to say "22 grams."

navychop

Today at 9:34 AM

Jimbo said:
don't think theres sodium in it

According to "Miss A"" there is. Especially for higher end ones.

Jimbo

Today at 9:39 AM

navychop said:
According to "Miss A"" there is. Especially for higher end ones.

I did look into that ... the ones I get have about 65mg, which is very little ... but then I wouldn't expect much to be in Ice Cream.
Carbs are more than I would have liked ...

Bobby

Today at 10:51 AM

Jimbo said:
I did look into that ... the ones I get have about 65mg, which is very little ... but then I wouldn't expect much to be in Ice Cream.
Carbs are more than I would have liked ...

Screenshot 2026-10-24 at 7.51.00 AM.webp

Reactions: Foxbat and Jimbo

TRG

Today at 1:20 PM

Jimbo said:
Apparently my local Walmart doesn't carry that brand Tillamook ...
Kroger does .... Vanilla Bean $7.49 for 1.5 quart

Up here I have options of :
Vanilla Bean, French Vanilla, Cookies and Cream, Mud Slide and Strawberry

I will try the Strawberry and see what I think, IF the Sugar isn't any more than 22g ... it's Quite expensive.

Target does show it, cheaper, $5.99, however thier website says Not Sold in Store, closest store that carries it is 39 Miles away ....
I guess I better wait till WINTER to get it .. if it's that far away.

I'll have to check and see if Meijer has it ... YES they do ... $7.49 and a variety of Flavors

It goes on sale all the time here. Like NOW! I'm gonna go stock up today. This is at Albertsons.
BTW I don't buy Ice cream for it's nutritional value. But I understand that some people need to keep an eye on that sort of thing for personal health reasons.

Screenshot from 2026-10-24 11-13-21.webp

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Bruce

Supporting Founder Lifetime Supporter

Last reply Today at 1:09 PM · posted in Internet Television (IPTV) Discussion Forum

How things have changed

I was reading this article

Cable TV ‘cord-cutters’ became the majority in 2022

The steady decline of cable and broadcast television, and the rise of streaming services, reached a sort of inflection point over the past year. Last summer, for the first time, streaming ser…

thehill.com

That said this-
Last summer, for the first time, streaming services like Netflix and Amazon Prime claimed the largest share of the television viewing audience, surpassing both cable and broadcast TV. Streaming captured 34.8 percent of July viewers, according to Nielsen data, compared to 34.4 percent for cable and 21.6 percent for broadcast.

And then, sometime in the second half of 2022, cord-cutters became the majority. The share of cable and satellite television subscribers dipped to 48 percent, according to a report from Samba TV, a television technology company.

Now I do not consider those with YTTV and the likes, Cord Cutters, but they still do not have Traditional Cable/Satellite delivered Live TV, so I decided to do the math.

There are, now, 129 Million Households in the United States.

In 2015, there were 100 Million Cable/Sat Subscribers , no streaming Live TV Service.

Today, there are 66 Million Live TV subscribers, including Cable, Satellite and Streaming.

Roughly, Streaming Live TV has 14 Million subs including all of them.

So that means, Cable/Satellite now has, roughly, 51 Million Households

So in just 8 years, lost 49% of their subscribers and by the end of this year, expected sub count to be, roughly, 45 million households.

That means a total loss of 55% since 2015 at the end of 2023.

But out of 129 Million households, 45 million will mean only 35% will get Cable/Satellite Delivered Live TV by the end of 2023.

Imagine what 2024 will be like.

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Bruce

Yesterday at 8:58 AM

And again, 15 months in a row, streaming wins-

Cable and Broadcast added together-36.4%

Streaming with a massive 49.6%, 13.2% higher than Broadcast/Streaming.

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Jimbo

Yesterday at 11:08 AM

Bruce said:
And again, 15 months in a row, streaming wins-

Cable and Broadcast added together-36.4%

Streaming with a massive 49.6%, 13.2% higher than Broadcast/Streaming.

View attachment 194983

Your Still Thrilled about all this ?

These numbers will Never be accurate as many people use Both still ...

You have services like Hulu Live and You Tube TV that do, what you call Cable, but they ARE Streaming, so Which is is ?

Does it get counted 2x as both Streaming and Cable ?

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Jimbo

Yesterday at 1:16 PM

But they ARE Streaming as well, so they Should be counted as both, which would make the Streaming numbers even More prominate.

Q.
Who does the Counting for Streaming ?

Neilson does the Broadcast/Cable ...

b4pjoe

Yesterday at 1:25 PM

Jimbo said:
But they ARE Streaming as well, so they Should be counted as both, which would make the Streaming numbers even More prominate.

Q.
Who does the Counting for Streaming ?

Neilson does the Broadcast/Cable ...

But they are basically airing a number of live channels just like Broadcast, Cable, and Others so that is why they are counted that way.

Bruce

Yesterday at 1:31 PM

Jimbo said:
But they ARE Streaming as well, so they Should be counted as both, which would make the Streaming numbers even More prominate.

Q.
Who does the Counting for Streaming ?

Neilson does the Broadcast/Cable ...

Same.

Ratings for streaming content is extremely accurate, since the service knows who is watching what and when, when we hit ok on our remotes.

Ratings for Broadcast/Cable shows has always been a estimate.

Jimbo

Yesterday at 3:11 PM

Bruce said:
Same.

Ratings for streaming content is extremely accurate, since the service knows who is watching what and when, when we hit ok on our remotes.

Ratings for Broadcast/Cable shows has always been a estimate.

If I flip thru shows on an app, 3-4 in a few minutes, does that still show that I watched the whole episode ?

If I watch the Super Bowl for 5 minutes, does that count as watching the Super Bowl ?
Is it the same if I just watched the Commercials.

Bruce

Yesterday at 3:30 PM

Jimbo said:
If I flip thru shows on an app, 3-4 in a few minutes, does that still show that I watched the whole episode ?

If I watch the Super Bowl for 5 minutes, does that count as watching the Super Bowl ?
Is it the same if I just watched the Commercials.

Nielsen Streaming Ratings: Third-party measurement firm Nielsen tracks U.S. streaming viewership, releasing weekly reports that measure total minutes viewed across major television sets, broken down by program (such as original, acquired, and movie content) rather than minute-by-minute audience retention curves.

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savarese04

Today at 1:09 PM

Jimbo said:
Your Still Thrilled about all this ?

These numbers will Never be accurate as many people use Both still ...

Nobody is "happy" or "sad" about this. Simply posting data in an non-editorialized way has nothing to do with anyone's feelings.

The data on the streaming side is immensely accurate, I'm guessing to the millisecond. Plus most people likely have not turned off data sharing and thus they are grabbing a huge swath of data. Much more accurate than cable which relies on a smaller sample size and probably not to the second.

In either case, nobody is getting "double counted" because it's usage based. If I watch 100 minutes of content and 30 minutes is on Youtube and 20 minutes on Disney and 50 minutes on YTTV, it's going to show up as 30%, 20%, 50% slices of my personal pie respectively.

Jimbo said:
Q.
Who does the Counting for Streaming ?

Neilson does the Broadcast/Cable ...

Nielsen does. If you go into the settings of any of your streaming accounts, you can turn off the option to share to usage data with their third party measuring service - Nielsen.

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techristian

Last reply Today at 12:45 PM · posted in Free To Air (FTA) Discussion

NEED SUGGESTIONS FOR NEW FTA BOX

IS Amiko MIRA 3 any good ???
Can you recommend the best to cover all bases. NO BEEPS on certain channels 101w (NEWSMAX ,NEWS NATION), a clock that keeps working STEADY for timed recording ,solid unit with good lifespan. My Amiko died AND my Linkbox has NO Favorites Button and BEEPS on many channels. Picking up 105 west with a NEW SHED IN THE Way with 6 foot Cband ..95 percent quality ...unbelievable.

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primestar31

Today at 12:45 PM

techristian said:
IS Amiko MIRA 3 any good ???
Can you recommend the best to cover all bases. NO BEEPS on certain channels 101w (NEWSMAX ,NEWS NATION), a clock that keeps working STEADY for timed recording ,solid unit with good lifespan. My Amiko died AND my Linkbox has NO Favorites Button and BEEPS on many channels. Picking up 105 west with a NEW SHED IN THE Way with 6 foot Cband ..95 percent quality ...unbelievable.

Have you tried a new power brick on your Amiko? It's slim pickings out there anymore. The FTA market in the US has pretty much been abandoned.

This would likely be your best bet, and Rick is a good seller. I've never had any issues with him:

Ricks Satellite Satellite Receivers

TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Today at 12:32 PM · posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Updates on Artemis III?

Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!

View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/nrzwDeQ-WV0

Direct YouTube Link - Updates on Artemis III?
TWIT's Website
TWIT Live Feed

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klang

Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter

Last reply Today at 12:25 PM · posted in TV Shows

Star Trek: Starfleet Academy - Paramount+

Season 2 order already in hand:

'Star Trek: Starfleet Academy' Renewed for Season 2, Tatiana Maslany to Guest Star in Season 1

I've not been optimistic about this show based on what I've read so far. Seems to be aimed at a younger audience. Interesting though that Tatiana Maslany will have some sort of role.

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klang

Jul 28, 2025

I'm sure I will watch at least the first episode but I am not optimistic.

Reactions: MikeD-C05, Keith Brannen, long_time_Dish and 1 other person

klang

Oct 11, 2026

klang said:
I'm sure I will watch at least the first episode but I am not optimistic.

Here i am over a year later and just finished season 1. Not great but not as bad as I was expecting. Did not care for the barefoot captain stuff but overall ok. Actually looking forward to see what they did for season 2.

Reactions: MikeD-C05

MikeD-C05

Oct 11, 2026

klang said:
Here i am over a year later and just finished season 1. Not great but not as bad as I was expecting. Did not care for the barefoot captain stuff but overall ok. Actually looking forward to see what they did for season 2.

Yeah, the foot stuff was just nasty. I kept thinking of how dirty her feet would get traipsing around shoe-less. Funny, I love being shoe less at home and never wear shoes indoors in my home for long, but seeing her laying on all her furniture with her bare feet hanging out just kind of grossed me out.

Reactions: long_time_Dish

harshness

Oct 13, 2026

MikeD-C05 said:
I kept thinking of how dirty her feet would get traipsing around shoe-less.

Where would this "dirt" come from? Dead skin and dandruff?

Reactions: Jimbo

MikeD-C05

Sunday at 12:51 PM

harshness said:
Where would this "dirt" come from? Dead skin and dandruff?

There would still be dirt ,dust in the future I am sure. So walking around the station like she did she would get stuff on her feet. I am sure the robot vacuum is still going to miss stuff, with all those different alien species running around there.

Reactions: Howard Simmons and long_time_Dish

harshness

Sunday at 2:00 PM

MikeD-C05 said:
There would still be dirt ,dust in the future I am sure.

Where is it going to come from -- specifically?

Why do you think cleaning technology won't improve in the next few hundred years? HEPA filtration was invented as part of the Manhattan Project.

MikeD-C05

Monday at 1:35 PM

harshness said:
Where is it going to come from -- specifically?

Why do you think cleaning technology won't improve in the next few hundred years? HEPA filtration was invented as part of the Manhattan Project.

I don't know, but I still don't like her walking through the station or the academy with out her shoes. It looks unprofessional and very "hippy like" for someone of her status and I personally don't get off to feet, so there is that.

Reactions: long_time_Dish

osu1991

Monday at 1:59 PM

MikeD-C05 said:
I don't know, but I still don't like her walking through the station or the academy with out her shoes. It looks unprofessional and very "hippy like" for someone of her status and I personally don't get off to feet, so there is that.

Stay out of my office. I rarely have shoes or socks on in the office. My office and business is at home though :clapping

klang

Monday at 2:04 PM

I just thought her behavior, including the bare feet thing, was disrespectful to her position.

Reactions: MikeD-C05 and long_time_Dish

harshness

Tuesday at 5:36 PM

MikeD-C05 said:
I don't know, but I still don't like her walking through the station or the academy with out her shoes.

That is your right.

I couldn't buy hiding behind the dirty-feet argument.

Reactions: MikeD-C05

MikeD-C05

Today at 12:25 PM

osu1991 said:
Stay out of my office. I rarely have shoes or socks on in the office. My office and business is at home though

Say, I don't wear socks or shoes in my house either. But for a captain in Star Fleet it looks bad to be walking around the academy with no shoes. Gives off 1960 Hippie vibes.

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