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I've put up three WaveFrontier T90 toroids over the past months to cover the North American FTA Ku birds. Considering the number of orbital positions involved, the use of bandstacked LNBs makes a lot of sense in terms of limiting the cost and complexity of cabling and switching. However the choices for bandstacked Ku LNBs is very limited. Until recently the only commonly available option was to salvage feeds and LNBs from Dish Network 105W and 121W SuperDishes. Then Sadoun released the KLBS1 LNBF which I evaluated a couple of months ago, here. I've been trying to decide on the final configuration for my toroid LNBs, and decided to have a shootout.
The competitors were:
1. Sadoun KLBS1 LNBF. I strip the plastic case to provide better mounting on the toroid rails. The KLBS1 has LOFs of 10750 (H) and 10100 (V), meaning H is sent from 950-1450 MHz and V is sent from 1600-2100 MHz. This unit has a lot of gain and a high output level.
2. Dish FSS LNB + 105W feed. Of the two stock SuperDish FSS feeds, the 105W version is the easier to work with. The horn mouth is small and the waveguide is set up to handle circular polarization if rotated by 45 degrees. Like all Dish FSS LNBs, the LOFs are 10750 (V) and 13850 (H), meaning V is sent from 950-1450 MHz and H is sent from 2150-1650 MHz (inverted). These LNBs have much less gain than the Sadoun units.
3. Dish FSS LNB + 121W feed. The second SuperDish feed is compromised because it had to work next to a 119W feed. The horn mouth is narrow and tall to accommodate this. The waveguide is also extended to allow physical space for both the 119 and 121 LNBs. Both the 119 and 121 feeds are cast as a single unit. Common practice is to separate these with a hacksaw.
4. Dish FSS LNB + DP feed. Given the striking similarity of the Sadoun and DishPro feeds, I couldn't help but chop a DishPro LNBF down and bolt the remaining feed to a SuperDish LNB. I wanted to see if I could improve on the original SuperDish feed performance, which isn't that inspiring.
All of these are shown in the attached pictures. The mod to couple the DP feed to a SuperDish LNB is pretty much self-explanatory. One of my toroids is centered on 97W, which has a lot of high CNR transponders to use over the H & V ranges. I chose six and for each competitor made quick CNR measurements of each. At the same time I wanted to test the benefit of using amps at the dish. There isn't a lot of cable to my test setup, but there are switches, taps and other paraphernalia in-line that make using the SuperDish LNBs a bit on the ragged edge with its low output level. So each competitor was measured with and without an amp in series. The entire signal path was the same for each test and I made the changeovers as quickly as possible. The same SuperDish LNB was used for the three feeds to prevent having that become a separate variable.
The measured CNRs are listed tabularly and are plotted in the attachments. I also included a table showing the relative performance of each combination with respect to the DP feed + FSS LNB, which overall came out on top. Finally there are a table and plot of the 'benefit' of using an amplifier for each competitor. Not surprisingly the Sadoun unit does much better without an amp. It has a very hot output compared to the Dish FSS LNB. The Dish FSS LNB showed some significant improvements with the amp.
Comparing the best amp configuration for each competitor, my DP + SuperDish LNB concoction was the overall winner. The Sadoun unit was very competitive, beating the winner by small margins on three transponders. However it was behind by larger margins on the other transponders. The stock 105W and 121W feeds finished farther back. Averaging the relative performance compared to the winner for the six transponders I calculated:
1. DP feed + FSS LNB: 0.0 dB (reference)
2. Sadoun KLBS1 LNBF: -0.5 dB
3. 105W feed + FSS LNB: -1.8 dB
4. 121W feed + FSS LNB: -3.3 dB
The above data show the importance of a good feed, as the first and last place finishers used the exact same LNB in the tests. The Sadoun is a readily available unit at a reasonable price and it performs very well. However the modified DishPro feed, which looks almost identical to the Sadoun feed, when coupled to a SuperDish LNB does outperform it. There may be some unit-to-unit variations, but quick pretesting I did with other Sadoun and Dish LNBs showed nearly identical results.
There are other factors other than CNR. I did not evaluate phase noise, nor did I look at LO frequency accuracy/stability. It should be pointed out the results are for a T90 dish; the feed matching to other Ku dishes may be different. The SuperDish parts are largely only available through eBay. The modification is very easy, but it does entail sacrificing a DishPro LNBF and you are left with the SuperDish feeds. For my purposes I plan to combine the top two units. Where I need to achieve 2 degree spacing on the same toroid, alternating the two gives just enough space to squeeze them in. I will have to slice off some small pieces of the two feedhorn mouths to get them to fit, but this is very straightforward.
The competitors were:
1. Sadoun KLBS1 LNBF. I strip the plastic case to provide better mounting on the toroid rails. The KLBS1 has LOFs of 10750 (H) and 10100 (V), meaning H is sent from 950-1450 MHz and V is sent from 1600-2100 MHz. This unit has a lot of gain and a high output level.
2. Dish FSS LNB + 105W feed. Of the two stock SuperDish FSS feeds, the 105W version is the easier to work with. The horn mouth is small and the waveguide is set up to handle circular polarization if rotated by 45 degrees. Like all Dish FSS LNBs, the LOFs are 10750 (V) and 13850 (H), meaning V is sent from 950-1450 MHz and H is sent from 2150-1650 MHz (inverted). These LNBs have much less gain than the Sadoun units.
3. Dish FSS LNB + 121W feed. The second SuperDish feed is compromised because it had to work next to a 119W feed. The horn mouth is narrow and tall to accommodate this. The waveguide is also extended to allow physical space for both the 119 and 121 LNBs. Both the 119 and 121 feeds are cast as a single unit. Common practice is to separate these with a hacksaw.
4. Dish FSS LNB + DP feed. Given the striking similarity of the Sadoun and DishPro feeds, I couldn't help but chop a DishPro LNBF down and bolt the remaining feed to a SuperDish LNB. I wanted to see if I could improve on the original SuperDish feed performance, which isn't that inspiring.
All of these are shown in the attached pictures. The mod to couple the DP feed to a SuperDish LNB is pretty much self-explanatory. One of my toroids is centered on 97W, which has a lot of high CNR transponders to use over the H & V ranges. I chose six and for each competitor made quick CNR measurements of each. At the same time I wanted to test the benefit of using amps at the dish. There isn't a lot of cable to my test setup, but there are switches, taps and other paraphernalia in-line that make using the SuperDish LNBs a bit on the ragged edge with its low output level. So each competitor was measured with and without an amp in series. The entire signal path was the same for each test and I made the changeovers as quickly as possible. The same SuperDish LNB was used for the three feeds to prevent having that become a separate variable.
The measured CNRs are listed tabularly and are plotted in the attachments. I also included a table showing the relative performance of each combination with respect to the DP feed + FSS LNB, which overall came out on top. Finally there are a table and plot of the 'benefit' of using an amplifier for each competitor. Not surprisingly the Sadoun unit does much better without an amp. It has a very hot output compared to the Dish FSS LNB. The Dish FSS LNB showed some significant improvements with the amp.
Comparing the best amp configuration for each competitor, my DP + SuperDish LNB concoction was the overall winner. The Sadoun unit was very competitive, beating the winner by small margins on three transponders. However it was behind by larger margins on the other transponders. The stock 105W and 121W feeds finished farther back. Averaging the relative performance compared to the winner for the six transponders I calculated:
1. DP feed + FSS LNB: 0.0 dB (reference)
2. Sadoun KLBS1 LNBF: -0.5 dB
3. 105W feed + FSS LNB: -1.8 dB
4. 121W feed + FSS LNB: -3.3 dB
The above data show the importance of a good feed, as the first and last place finishers used the exact same LNB in the tests. The Sadoun is a readily available unit at a reasonable price and it performs very well. However the modified DishPro feed, which looks almost identical to the Sadoun feed, when coupled to a SuperDish LNB does outperform it. There may be some unit-to-unit variations, but quick pretesting I did with other Sadoun and Dish LNBs showed nearly identical results.
There are other factors other than CNR. I did not evaluate phase noise, nor did I look at LO frequency accuracy/stability. It should be pointed out the results are for a T90 dish; the feed matching to other Ku dishes may be different. The SuperDish parts are largely only available through eBay. The modification is very easy, but it does entail sacrificing a DishPro LNBF and you are left with the SuperDish feeds. For my purposes I plan to combine the top two units. Where I need to achieve 2 degree spacing on the same toroid, alternating the two gives just enough space to squeeze them in. I will have to slice off some small pieces of the two feedhorn mouths to get them to fit, but this is very straightforward.
14 Replies
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4211 views
Supporting Founder
Since the Reds have there thread we should too!
Last watched Nine inch Nails
Next 3:10 to Yuma
Last watched Nine inch Nails
Next 3:10 to Yuma
5347 Replies
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509342 views
Hello everyone, new guy here. I'm trying to solve problem I'm having with Dish bonus view channels. When I'm watching the bonus view channels then I switch back to regular dish channels, after few minutes the screen flips to black and after 30 seconds flips back to regular channels and continues to flip back and forth until I turn off TV. After I wait 30 minutes and turn back on , I can use regular channels again. So, its after I switch from bonus view channels to regular dish channels the problem starts. Been trying to fix this for a month, but no luck
Here what I've done.
i contacted Dish support and they sent me a new Joey3, but no help. Switched to a different HDMI input on TV, no help. Used different HDMI cable , no help. Used different electrical wall plug, no help.
Finally got a Dish tech to check it. He ran all systems check and was OK. Finally he brought in a small TV and plugged in the HDMI out from the Joey to the small TV. He could not get the problem to occur on his small TV, so the new Joey was working OK. So, then the problem must be myTV. He made some phone calls and came back with the answer that there must be a problem with the analog to digital switch in my TV. Has anyone ever heard of a problem like this, or is it time to be looking for a new TV? My tv LG OLED65C8PUA. TV has been trouble free til now. Thanks
Here what I've done.
i contacted Dish support and they sent me a new Joey3, but no help. Switched to a different HDMI input on TV, no help. Used different HDMI cable , no help. Used different electrical wall plug, no help.
Finally got a Dish tech to check it. He ran all systems check and was OK. Finally he brought in a small TV and plugged in the HDMI out from the Joey to the small TV. He could not get the problem to occur on his small TV, so the new Joey was working OK. So, then the problem must be myTV. He made some phone calls and came back with the answer that there must be a problem with the analog to digital switch in my TV. Has anyone ever heard of a problem like this, or is it time to be looking for a new TV? My tv LG OLED65C8PUA. TV has been trouble free til now. Thanks
7 Replies
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111 views
Supporting Founder
Lifetime Supporter
Thanks to Fitch Ratings ( who gives the ratings on Credit and debt, as approved by the SEC, so they have accurate numbers) we have the totals.
DIRECTV's video subscriber base is the third-largest traditional multi-channel video programming distributor (MVPD) in the U.S. with about 8.2 million subscribers at the end of 1Q26.
The last time it was reported, it was 8.8M at the end of 2Q25, so only a 600,000 loss for 3 quarters, which is a major improvement, since for many years before that, it was losing 500,000 a quarter, 2 Million a year.
It is now losing less than Dish/Sling combined, I believe the Genre Packs are helping to retain and get subscribers.
DIRECTV's video subscriber base is the third-largest traditional multi-channel video programming distributor (MVPD) in the U.S. with about 8.2 million subscribers at the end of 1Q26.
The last time it was reported, it was 8.8M at the end of 2Q25, so only a 600,000 loss for 3 quarters, which is a major improvement, since for many years before that, it was losing 500,000 a quarter, 2 Million a year.
It is now losing less than Dish/Sling combined, I believe the Genre Packs are helping to retain and get subscribers.
6 Replies
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381 views
Recently came back to DirectTV Satellite service and have two boxes, Gemini and a main HR54.
DirecTV is charging me two "TV access fees" of $10 each, but can only watch TV on the one without the server. Is there anything I can do to fix this?
DirecTV is charging me two "TV access fees" of $10 each, but can only watch TV on the one without the server. Is there anything I can do to fix this?
24 Replies
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946 views
Staff member
HERE TO HELP YOU!
Cutting Edge
Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!
So let the game continue!
The last song was added by Bobby who posted...
One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters
CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!
Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game
Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.
Example:
Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow
Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio
Another example:
Ride the Lightning -- Metallica
Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne
Get it?
An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....
So let the game continue!
The last song was added by Bobby who posted...
One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters
CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!
Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game
Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.
Example:
Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow
Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio
Another example:
Ride the Lightning -- Metallica
Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne
Get it?
An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....
67110 Replies
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2662397 views
Pub Member / Supporter
Lifetime Supporter
I feel like this was discussed in another thread, but I can't find it. I have T-Mobile and my last iPhone upgrade was in 2020. I want to get a new iPhone, but what is the best way to go about doing it? Should I order the iPhone from T-Mobile directly, or should I buy from the Apple Store? I feel like there are pros/cons to each option.
2 Replies
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40 views
I have a Hopper with Sling. (Don't know exact model.) A couple nights ago, I went into the DVR screen, and noted that it was recording three programs. Yet I was able to view live TV (that was not one of the channels being recorded.) Did something change? In the past, it would only let me watch one of the channels being recorded, or any recording in the DVR menu. Maybe it was streaming, although there was no indication of that?
Apologies if this has been covered; I searched and didn't find anything.
Thanks.
Apologies if this has been covered; I searched and didn't find anything.
Thanks.
9 Replies
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363 views
iJustine
Time for another AWESOME video from iJustine!
View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/YJjxjYvmQ8s
Direct YouTube Link - Good Bye, Tim! Last WWDC
The official iJustine Website's Website
Buy her book!
View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/YJjxjYvmQ8s
Direct YouTube Link - Good Bye, Tim! Last WWDC
The official iJustine Website's Website
Buy her book!
0 Replies
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11 views
Pub Member / Supporter
Cutting Edge
WANTED DirecTV LCC
Anyone have a DirecTV Local Channel Connector that you'd like to get rid of at a reasonable price? DirecTV is currently in a contract dispute with owner of my local ABC affiliate.
12 Replies
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313 views
I did that. The response was that the LCC is not available. Escalated the issue to a tech support person with the same results.
Could be out of them I guess ... I'd keep trying, every 3-4 days.I did that. The response was that the LCC is not available. Escalated the issue to a tech support person with the same results.
If they are not out of them as them WHY you can't get one, seeing Your in a Dispute. Thats what they are for.
I would make them give you a real answer, don't let them off the hook.
I had one, and it worked well, but I believe I gave it to another D* friend (also had a AM21), I know I gave them away ...
According to the tech support guy, they don't have any in stock. He said I should receive an email when and if they have them. I even told him I would accept a refurbished unit.
I'm not sure your going to find any Refurbished ones as D* doesn't ask for them back.According to the tech support guy, they don't have any in stock. He said I should receive an email when and if they have them. I even told him I would accept a refurbished unit.
Pub Member / Supporter
Lifetime Supporter
Did anyone have a price increase today on their equipment? I own my VIP211k's, and they have been $5.00. My bill that I received last week shows the "add-ons" as being $5.00. However, I just logged into my Dish account, and my "add-ons" are now $10.00. Did the additional receivers go up by $5.00 recently?
As I mentioned, my last bill shows $5.00 and under the notes, nothing is mentioned about a price increase.
As I mentioned, my last bill shows $5.00 and under the notes, nothing is mentioned about a price increase.
11 Replies
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211 views