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AcWxRadar

Last reply Feb 14, 2010 · posted in FTA Receiver / Equipment Support

SAT additions to AZBox with DiSEqC

This is just a note of commentary on my observations for adding new satellites to the AZBox when using DiSEqC 1.2 motor positioning.

Because of my longitude coordinate, USALS does not function to drive my motor if the satellite I desire is further than approximately 59° east or west from my site.

Therefore, when it comes to satellite 30.0°W Hispasat 1C/1D, I must revert to using DiSEqC 1.2 motor control.

Additional comment: I did not personally care for the stock list of satellites in my AZBox. I had no use for the hundred or more satellites listed which were only viewable from Asia, Africa and Europe. I also did not like the naming and organization of the North American satellites.

Therefore, I set out to create an entirely virgin list of satellites for my own use by wiping the entire slate clean of all this "junk" and starting over with the intention of manually entering every satellite that I know that I can get and all their TPs.

I ran into a few problems in doing so.

The first problem that I should mention is that you DO NOT want to delete ALL the satellites from the AZBox! It does NOT like this and produces an error. Worst yet, it won't let you correct that error very easily. You want to leave at least ONE satellite remaining in the list.

To give you a humorous example of what it was like following the deletion of the very last satellite in my list....

AZBOX: ERROR! THERE ARE NO SATELLITES!

ME: Yes, I know this. I intend to add a satellite by going to the menu where I may add and edit satellites... This menu here...

AZBOX: ERROR! ACCESS DENIED! THERE ARE NO SATELLITES!

ME: Yes, I understand that there are no satellites, let me add one... HERE.

AZBOX: ERROR! NOT ALLOWED. THERE ARE NO SATELLITES!

ME: Listen HAL, let me explain. I deleted the satellites on purpose. Now I want to replace some of them. OK?

AZBOX: I AM SORRY DAVE. I CAN NOT ALLOW YOU TO DO THAT. THERE ARE NO SATELLITES IN YOUR LIST.

ME: OK HAL, I am just going to detach this cord from the wall socket to conserve energy, ok?

HAL 9000 (I mean AZBox): I AM SORRY DAVE. I DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THAT THIS WAS A NECESSARY PROCESS. PLEASE, GO AHEAD AND INSTALL SOME SATELLITES INTO YOUR LIST NOW.

ME: Thank you, HAL. You miserable schmuck.

AZBOX: WHAT DID YOU SAY DAVE? I DIDN'T HEAR YOU?

ME: Uh, nothing HAL, nothing important.

Well, you get the idea. DON'T delete ALL of your satellites from the list! HAL will get you.

Ok, enough of that. Now here is the really glitchy problem, and I don't know if I would have discovered it without cleaning house this way.

97.0°W is my truest south satellite and the biggest one to edit. The second largest satellite (in regards to TP and channel numbers) is 30.0°W and this one requires me to use DiSEqC 1.2 to position it. So I wanted to get these two out of the way first. No problems. A very clean, easy and quick install and I was on my way to the third satellite.

Here is where the problem arose. No matter which stellite I entered next, it would change Hispasat's coordinates to the same as the newly added satellite.
So, if I added 43.0°W, Hispasat would then change its name and coordinates to "43.0°W Hispasat"! If I added 63.0°W Telstar 11, Hispasat would show up as "63.0°W Hispasat"!

I attempted all sorts of tricks to prevent this, like rebooting the AZBOX after adding each satellite, hoping that it would register properly and not alter any of the previously entered satellites. No joy. I tried several methods to "RESET" and "SAVE" the position of Hispasat in the DiSEqC 1.2 motor mode control, still no joy.

No matter what I did, it wanted to screw up the name and coordinate of the one atellite that I had set up using DiSEqC 1.2.

The last thing I tried, which appears to have worked. Is that after setting up Hispasat using DiSEqC 1.2. I then changed the motor selection of Hispasat to USALS while I added the rest of the satellites to my list.

Therefore, if you plan to use DiSEqC 1.2 for motor control of any of your satellites within the AZBox, be sure to set the motor control for each to USALS until you have all your adds and edits complete. Once you are done adding satellites to your list, you may return and set up any and all sats that will be using DiSEqC 1.2 back to that mode.

When I first received my AZBox and started playing around with adding satellites to the list, I detected all sorts of strange anomalies similar to this. However, I could not really explain what was going on. I now have a little clearer picture because I can see it with a smaller list of satellites and I can reproduce the same effect every time and correct for it every time as well.

There is no way to describe this in less words and you almost have to experience it yourself for the "light" to come on. But, somehow I need to get this glitch reported to OpenSAT so that they can diagnose why it is doing this and correct it.

What an experience! It seems that the AZBox does NOT like to have satellites set up with both DiSEqC 1.2 and USALS at the same time or at least it appears difficult to set them up this way.

RADAR

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B.J.

Feb 13, 2010

I know I'm probably using an older firmware version (3877 , which is the most recent official version) rather than one of the newer daily/weekly versions, so my experiences may be different, but the above seems to demonstrate why it is much easier to set up your satellites via an editor assisted by use of those .xml files. I've never seen anything like the above.
I downloaded one of those .xml files, then edited it myself, eliminating all the sats I didn't want, then with the help of a channel editor, put all these sats into the Azbox.
I run my Azbox slaved, so I don't need either DiseqC-1.2 or USALS, so I put the sats in with motor control turned off. All the sats are in there in the proper order, etc. If I then go in, and change the motor control parameters to either USALS or DiseqC-1.2, I don't seem to have any problems. I just now set one of my sats up as DiseqC-1.2, and it took it fine. Set up another sat as USALS, and it took that fine. Didn't mess up the position of any satellites in the list.
Anyway, unless the later firmware is significantly different, I really think that you'd avoid much of the problems you're experiencing if you'd first use a channel editor to set up all the sats with motor control off, THEN make whatever changes seem appropriate.
Although, it occurred to me that part of your problem might possibly be related to either the order of the steps you're using or/and the way you're saving. The reason I think this might be possible is that DiseqC-1.2 doesn't need or use a longitude parameter whereas USALS does. So I'm kind of guessing that if you set up a new sat using the remote (I didn't, since I set them all up using the editor), that IF you set them up in DiseqC-1.2 first, then it won't get a longitude entered properly, whereas if you set it up initially with USALS, then it might properly set the longitude. This is just a guess on my part though, since I haven't needed to set up sats via the remote. The other part of my guess, is that I'm wondering what save {command} mode is being used when saving a DiseqC-1.2 position? If AUTOMATIC mode is used, it's possible that you might be confusing the positions of sats. When I use DiseqC-1.2, I like to tell the receiver what sat position number I want to use, maingly because this allows me to switch the coax over to another receiver and then that receiver can be used to send the dish to satellites without actually finding them and saving them on that receiver. Ie I just enter the appropriate sat number for each sat, and that receiver is then set up, without any effort (assuming use of a channel editor).
Anyway, I think that most of the problems described here would be avoided it a channel editor was used. But perhaps if I were using the same firmware, and trying to do the same thing you are, I might experience the same behavior..... I don't know.

AcWxRadar

Feb 13, 2010

B.J. said:
I know I'm probably using an older firmware version (3877 , which is the most recent official version) rather than one of the newer daily/weekly versions, so my experiences may be different, but the above seems to demonstrate why it is much easier to set up your satellites via an editor assisted by use of those .xml files. I've never seen anything like the above.
I downloaded one of those .xml files, then edited it myself, eliminating all the sats I didn't want, then with the help of a channel editor, put all these sats into the Azbox.
I run my Azbox slaved, so I don't need either DiseqC-1.2 or USALS, so I put the sats in with motor control turned off. All the sats are in there in the proper order, etc. If I then go in, and change the motor control parameters to either USALS or DiseqC-1.2, I don't seem to have any problems. I just now set one of my sats up as DiseqC-1.2, and it took it fine. Set up another sat as USALS, and it took that fine. Didn't mess up the position of any satellites in the list.
Anyway, unless the later firmware is significantly different, I really think that you'd avoid much of the problems you're experiencing if you'd first use a channel editor to set up all the sats with motor control off, THEN make whatever changes seem appropriate.
Although, it occurred to me that part of your problem might possibly be related to either the order of the steps you're using or/and the way you're saving. The reason I think this might be possible is that DiseqC-1.2 doesn't need or use a longitude parameter whereas USALS does. So I'm kind of guessing that if you set up a new sat using the remote (I didn't, since I set them all up using the editor), that IF you set them up in DiseqC-1.2 first, then it won't get a longitude entered properly, whereas if you set it up initially with USALS, then it might properly set the longitude. This is just a guess on my part though, since I haven't needed to set up sats via the remote. The other part of my guess, is that I'm wondering what save {command} mode is being used when saving a DiseqC-1.2 position? If AUTOMATIC mode is used, it's possible that you might be confusing the positions of sats. When I use DiseqC-1.2, I like to tell the receiver what sat position number I want to use, maingly because this allows me to switch the coax over to another receiver and then that receiver can be used to send the dish to satellites without actually finding them and saving them on that receiver. Ie I just enter the appropriate sat number for each sat, and that receiver is then set up, without any effort (assuming use of a channel editor).
Anyway, I think that most of the problems described here would be avoided it a channel editor was used. But perhaps if I were using the same firmware, and trying to do the same thing you are, I might experience the same behavior..... I don't know.

B.J.

You are exactly right regarding the use of an editor. I so much want to use one to avoid hassles such as this! But, there isn't an editor that I can trust just yet.

With the (beta) firmware that I am using, the editor that I think that you are referring to, doesn't work well. The other editors available have given me some rather troublesome and sporadic operation.

We need "CHANNEL MASTER" for the AZBox! Definitely.

You also hit on one item as a "procedural" matter that would probably be the best practice in any matter. That would be to ADD all the sats with the motor control set to OFF and then, after adding them to the list, change the motor control as required. It isn't too big of a deal for me since I only have the one satellite (30.0°W) that requires me to use DiSEqC 1.2, the rest all are set up with USALS and they don't interfere with one another.

B.J. said:
it occurred to me that part of your problem might possibly be related to either the order of the steps you're using or/and the way you're saving. The reason I think this might be possible is that DiseqC-1.2 doesn't need or use a longitude parameter whereas USALS does.

B.J., to reply to your quote above, you will have to take my word for this, but I tried every way that I could possibly find to reorder the steps, try new steps, save the results and try them over and over again in various orders looking for a proper method. I think I spent about 16-18 hours, non-stop with only a short nap and a few distractions, trying different things over and over again looking for a solution and I still don't know if it is really perfect just yet. It is definitely a bug in the programming of the AZBox and not an "operator error". This is the strangest and most difficult glitch that I have seen with any receiver, other than one that just doesn't turn on.

In any respect, I did learn something about the AZBox and its programming.

RADAR

putney

Feb 13, 2010

Maybe I missed it in an earlier post, but it must be mentioned; DO NOT USE the "RESETTING" option to clear a DiSEqC setting on a satellite! It will shuffle all of the other sat's locations and all will have to be relocated.

I went through this yesterday after cleaning up some sats that I no longer use DiSEqC on. I wish I would have left it alone.

B.J.

Feb 14, 2010

AcWxRadar said:
B.J.

You are exactly right regarding the use of an editor. I so much want to use one to avoid hassles such as this! But, there isn't an editor that I can trust just yet.

With the (beta) firmware that I am using, the editor that I think that you are referring to, doesn't work well. The other editors available have given me some rather troublesome and sporadic operation.

I agree that the editors don't work well for making changes, unfortunately, but I didn't really use it much for that purpose. I can't remember exactly the process I used, but basically, I took one of those .xml files you can create at some web page, then I put it into a regular Windows style text editor, one that has an option to use linux style 0D line termination, and used that to remove and/or add satellites. THEN, I used the Azbox editor to import that file, and convert it to Azbox format, and then send it to the Azbox. I did do some minor editing with the Azbox editor, such as perhaps deleting some entries, and perhaps something else {I can't remember}, but I definately did not try to change satellite parameters in the editor, because I had quickly learned that it didn't work very well, like you said.
Basically, I just used the editor to get a list of satellites into the Azbox in the proper order, then I did all setup of the sat parameters using the remote. It would be nice if they got an editor that allowed you to change all the parameters in the computer, but I agree that that can't be done yet. But at least with the version I have (and I thought that it would work with newer versions too, but maybe not), it would function with respect to the basic functions of upload, download, deleting sats, and I think changing the longitude perhaps.

AcWxRadar said:
You also hit on one item as a "procedural" matter that would probably be the best practice in any matter. That would be to ADD all the sats with the motor control set to OFF and then, after adding them to the list, change the motor control as required. It isn't too big of a deal for me since I only have the one satellite (30.0°W) that requires me to use DiSEqC 1.2, the rest all are set up with USALS and they don't interfere with one another.

B.J., to reply to your quote above, you will have to take my word for this, but I tried every way that I could possibly find to reorder the steps, try new steps, save the results and try them over and over again in various orders looking for a proper method. I think I spent about 16-18 hours, non-stop with only a short nap and a few distractions, trying different things over and over again looking for a solution and I still don't know if it is really perfect just yet. It is definitely a bug in the programming of the AZBox and not an "operator error". This is the strangest and most difficult glitch that I have seen with any receiver, other than one that just doesn't turn on.

In any respect, I did learn something about the AZBox and its programming.

RADAR

What you describe, relative to spending hours of trying to get the sats in there right reminds me of what I initially went through with the Azbox, because I found that the sat/transponder lists that came with the box, and were there even after upgrading firmware, were corrupted, and there was basically NO WAY to get the satellite list the way I wanted it. I had different problems than you did though, I think in my case, I was TRYING to delete all the sats, but it wouldn't LET me delete them all. There was one sat that I couldn't delete, and as long as that sat was in there, nothing worked right. I'd make changes, and the changes to one sat would cause other sats to be changed. It was a mess, and I spent days trying to fix it.
Finally, I gave up and tried that .xml thing, editing the file myself before feeding it into the editor. After I got a "clean" set of sat/transponder data in there, everything has worked well, and like I said, yesterday, I experimented, changing the setup of 3 or 4 of my sats, moving them from USALS to DiseqC-1.2, rebooted, and it retained the settings. I tried using the AUTO mode where the Azbox enters sat numbers starting with 1,2,3, etc, and also used the option to manually choose the sat number. The diseqC sat number then appears up with the sat name, to remind you which sat number you used, which is nice. I even tried setting diseqC-1.2 sat numbers in scrambled order of longitude, and that worked fine too. Everything seemed to work.
So again, it may just be that they broke the newer firmware versions (which I'll probably find out soon, as I'm thinking about upgrading soon, perhaps after the Olympics are over), but I really think that you might be suffering the symptoms of a corrupted sat/transponder data set, and that those symptom might go away if you'd start from scratch with one of those .xml files. My Azbox just seemed to have a mind of it's own, and was doing all sorts of weird things until I wiped that corrupted data out of there, which I was NOT able to do via deleting with the remote.
But I guess I'll see what happens when I finally switch to a newer firmware version. I've been waiting for improvements on either the streaming or PVR functions, and it looks like they are at least trying to do some things with the streaming, so I'll probably bite the bullet and try upgrading again.

B.J.

Feb 14, 2010

putney said:
Maybe I missed it in an earlier post, but it must be mentioned; DO NOT USE the "RESETTING" option to clear a DiSEqC setting on a satellite! It will shuffle all of the other sat's locations and all will have to be relocated.

I went through this yesterday after cleaning up some sats that I no longer use DiSEqC on. I wish I would have left it alone.

I think that "resetting" command is just a simple "resync" command, which has been a function of just about every sat receiver I've ever had. What you describe is what is supposed to happen.
I wouldn't say "DO NO USE" it, but I would definately say USE IT WITH CARE.
What happens with any motorized TVRO system, is that sometimes the system gets out of sync. On a big C-band system this might be caused by the receiver missing or getting bogus pulse signals from the actuator. On the little H-H motors, it can be something similar, or it can be caused by the motor getting corrupted diseqC commands, or just getting it's memory messed up a bit.
But what often happens, is that sometimes ALL the satellites get shifted a bit, all by the same amount, sort of like the zero position has changed, so that when it's computing a move of X degrees from it's reference position, it will be off a bit. Often, the motor has just forgotten where it was, and you can fix the situation by doing a GOTO-ZERO command or GOTO-reference or whatever they call it, then things are fixed when you go back to your sats. But sometimes, the motor has completely forgotten where it's zero is, perhaps due to receiving a bogus hard reset command. If this happens, I think it's usually best to actually correct the situation by moving the motor to it's zero, and doing a hard reset, however you can also use a resync command, which is what I think this resetting thing is. To use the resync command, you usually go to a sat, then use manual controls to move to peak the sat, then if you do the resync, it will fix ALL the sats at once, so you won't have to peak each sat. Of course this makes things a LOT easier, however what USUALLY happens, is that before you realize that ALL the sats are off, you have probably already readjusted the positions of a few satellites just using the SAVE function, which only affects one sat, so then when you do the resync, it will fix sats that you haven't touched, but will mess up the ones you've changed with the SAVE. Since sometimes, one sat will get messed up, you're never quite sure whether to use a save or reset, so the odds are good that whichever you do, it's going to have a good chance of messing something up. Just a fact of life with sat receivers. But basically, if you thing that ALL the sats seem to be out of whack, then the resetting thing is a good command, but if you think it's just one sat, then don't use that, use the save instead.
The above is assuming that resetting is the same as resync, but it seems like it must be.

putney

Feb 14, 2010

B.J. said:
I think that "resetting" command is just a simple "resync" command, which has been a function of just about every sat receiver I've ever had. What you describe is what is supposed to happen.

Actually I found that it deletes the DiSEqC position setting (P7). Something weird happens then. It's like if you delete P7, P8 falls in the gap and tries to fill that position. I doubt that is what is happening, but it definitely screws up the rest.

I wouldn't say "DO NO USE" it, but I would definately say USE IT WITH CARE.

No, I stand behind my statement "DO NOT USE", but hey, if you have multiple DiSEqC settings you just have an urge to redo, by all means, don't let me stop you!

The above is assuming that resetting is the same as resync, but it seems like it must be.

It's not. Go To 0 does a good job of re-syncing.

B.J.

Feb 14, 2010

putney said:
Actually I found that it deletes the DiSEqC position setting (P7). Something weird happens then. It's like if you delete P7, P8 falls in the gap and tries to fill that position. ....

Well, if that's the case, then that's bad news. In my reply to Radar above, I mentioned the problem that the Fortec Mercury had. What you describe sounds exactly like what the Mercury did. Ie if you have saved a bunch of sats, and the mercury put them in positions 1,2,3,4,5, etc, then say you delete satellite 2, what would happen was there would be a shift of sat numbers, and you'd try to go to sat 3, but it would actually go to sat4, and if you tried to go to sat 4, it would actually go to sat 5, etc, etc. I finally wrote a program that allowed me to fix it with a binary editor, but it was a mess, and I finally just stopped using the Mercury. I hope the Azbox doesn't have THAT problem, but what you describe sound real similar.

putney said:
No, I stand behind my statement "DO NOT USE", but hey, if you have multiple DiSEqC settings you just have an urge to redo, by all means, don't let me stop you!

Well now, I use my Azbox slaved to my C-band receiver, so I haven't needed to use it at all, but if I can ever locate a 2nd DVB-S2 tuner, then I'll definitely want to get diseqC-1.2 working. I may experiment with it a bit more next time I upgrade.

putney said:
It's not. Go To 0 does a good job of re-syncing.

Well, the Go To 0 should resync if the motor has just lost track of where it is, but still has the proper location of the zero position, but a true resync would be used if the zero location has been corrupted.
A resync should NOT change any position numbers though, so if the "resetting" thing is doing that, then I'm not sure what it is doing. Perhaps it is simply wiping out whatever you've previously saved for that sat.... but it shouldn't affect the other numbers.

Maybe I'll play with that today. Since I don't actually have my Azbox connected to a diseqC motor, it won't hurt anything to try, and might be interesting to see what it does.

AcWxRadar

Feb 14, 2010

B.J. said:
What you describe, relative to spending hours of trying to get the sats in there right reminds me of what I initially went through with the Azbox, because I found that the sat/transponder lists that came with the box, and were there even after upgrading firmware, were corrupted, and there was basically NO WAY to get the satellite list the way I wanted it. I had different problems than you did though, I think in my case, I was TRYING to delete all the sats, but it wouldn't LET me delete them all. There was one sat that I couldn't delete, and as long as that sat was in there, nothing worked right. I'd make changes, and the changes to one sat would cause other sats to be changed. It was a mess, and I spent days trying to fix it.

B.J.

I believe that I was having many of the same problems in the beginning for the same reasons - corrupted or inaccurate stock satellite and transponder lists. When I attempted to delete ALL the satellites, I was presented with a major ERROR and it said that the sat list was empty, but after fighting with it a bit, I found out that it actually had not allowed me to delete them all. It did retain ONE satellite, just like you observed.

I think the AZBox has a built in mechanism that won't truly allow you to delete everything. Almost like a self preservation mechanism. When I rebooted the AZBox, it showed me that there was really one satellite remaining. So, I added one sat that I knew that I was going to use and then deleted that last unwanted one from the stock list. That got me past those errors and menu blocks.

As I was adding all the satellites that I desired, I found another peculiar (but pleasent) function. It seems that the AZBox has a feature similar to "auto-complete" on a PC. After I entered one satellite and set up the switch and LNBF parameters etc. It automatically set these items up for every subsequent satellite that I added. This is really nice if you are adding a long list of satellites that use the same setup parameters, which is what I have.

RADAR

AcWxRadar

Feb 14, 2010

B.J. said:
Well, if that's the case, then that's bad news. In my reply to Radar above, I mentioned the problem that the Fortec Mercury had. What you describe sounds exactly like what the Mercury did. Ie if you have saved a bunch of sats, and the mercury put them in positions 1,2,3,4,5, etc, then say you delete satellite 2, what would happen was there would be a shift of sat numbers, and you'd try to go to sat 3, but it would actually go to sat4, and if you tried to go to sat 4, it would actually go to sat 5, etc, etc. I finally wrote a program that allowed me to fix it with a binary editor, but it was a mess, and I finally just stopped using the Mercury. I hope the Azbox doesn't have THAT problem, but what you describe sound real similar.

This would not be a good thing if the AZBox shuffled the positions in this manner.

B.J. said:
Well, the Go To 0 should resync if the motor has just lost track of where it is, but still has the proper location of the zero position, but a true resync would be used if the zero location has been corrupted.
A resync should NOT change any position numbers though, so if the "resetting" thing is doing that, then I'm not sure what it is doing. Perhaps it is simply wiping out whatever you've previously saved for that sat.... but it shouldn't affect the other numbers.

One possible problem that might arise here is if you didn't realize that the home or zero position was off before you located and saved your satellite positions and then resynced the motor afterwards. If you rezeroed or re-synced the motor after adding the satellite positions, then it would throw them all off by the amount that the motor zero was off initially.

RADAR

putney

Feb 14, 2010

B.J. said:
Well, the Go To 0 should resync if the motor has just lost track of where it is, but still has the proper location of the zero position, but a true resync would be used if the zero location has been corrupted.
A resync should NOT change any position numbers though, so if the "resetting" thing is doing that, then I'm not sure what it is doing. Perhaps it is simply wiping out whatever you've previously saved for that sat.... but it shouldn't affect the other numbers.

I guess what I meant to say is that Go To 0 re-syncs the motor well and sets USALS in the proper place. It can sometimes retrain a DiSEqC location. It's all really buggy though. Works great on one update, goes to hell on the next. The last two I have found to be very buggy. Lots of memory type of random things going on.

BTW More problems with DiSEqC today... I'm in the process of setting up dummy USAL sat locations for my Cband and Circular LNBs, which are 10º off center in either direction. (see pic)

The thing I like on my CNX is that it allows you to edit Sat locations after the fact. So if Using USALS if 91º would gain a couple of Q points at 91.1º, you simply type that in instead of using DiSEqC. I have a couple of sats that benefit from a slight tweak.

I'm cool with the dummy sat set up. The problem I am seeing is that I will soon (hopefully) be using DiSEqC to control a GBOX and my problems will return.

putney

Feb 14, 2010

AcWxRadar said:
If you rezeroed or re-synced the motor after adding the satellite positions, then it would throw them all off by the amount that the motor zero was off initially.

RADAR

Yes, I have found this to happen from time to time. The procedure for me now is to update, zero motor, check locations.

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SuperDish_Fan23

40 minutes ago · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

Its crazy how the ViP922 is so rare for no reason.

Why are ViP922s So rare? like its crazy how ebay has none, i checked everywhere, also, i got a ViP222k now, which is actually activated!

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Former member 208119

Last reply Yesterday at 11:14 PM · posted in SiriusXM Satellite Radio

SXM still giving discounts

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Bruno

Oct 4, 2026

What i noticed with my last renewal XM is now billing me $4.99 monthly instead of one time yearly payment.

Jimbo

Oct 4, 2026

Bruno said:
What i noticed with my last renewal XM is now billing me $.99 monthly instead of one time yearly payment.

Did you accidentally get on the wrong plan ?
I still do the once a year plans.

Bruno

Yesterday at 11:16 AM

Jimbo said:
Did you accidentally get on the wrong plan ?
I still do the once a year plans.

I have to think maybe more people dont keep track of the monthly XM bill. Every time i renew i put a reminder on my calendar week before its time to renew. My wife told me the other day not to renew her and then i told her you are not going to be able to listen to XM at home. Then she changed her mind...!!

Reactions: Jimbo

TRG

Yesterday at 11:55 AM

Bruno said:
I have to think maybe more people dont keep track of the monthly XM bill. Every time i renew i put a reminder on my calendar week before its time to renew. My wife told me the other day not to renew her and then i told her you are not going to be able to listen to XM at home. Then she changed her mind...!!

I get an e-mail every month reminding me that X amount will be charged to my credit card. If I see it go up I get on chat or pick up the phone. But I also remember that my year is up in December.

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Bruno

Yesterday at 12:08 PM

TRG said:
I get an e-mail every month reminding me that X amount will be charged to my credit card. If I see it go up I get on chat or pick up the phone. But I also remember that my year is up in December.

yea i don't understand WHY, like you I get a notice each month. Mine is also up in December.

Jimbo

Yesterday at 5:08 PM

Bruno said:
yea i don't understand WHY, like you I get a notice each month. Mine is also up in December.

You get an email every month to let you know they are billing you for the next month.

Foxbat

Yesterday at 11:14 PM

Mrs. Foxbat reminded me it's that time of the year to do the Cancel Tango

The A.I. agent appears to be better than in the past. It got to the acceptable price quicker than previous years, no human operator involved. $5/mo and I still have over $50 in SiriusXM credit from my FordPartner benefits.

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Scott Greczkowski

Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge

Last reply Yesterday at 10:57 PM · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Song Name Game Part 3!

Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne

Get it?

An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....

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dishstaller

Yesterday at 12:33 PM

Can't You See - Marshall Tucker Band

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sdfntx

Yesterday at 2:42 PM

See You in September - The Happenings

long_time_Dish

Yesterday at 4:17 PM

You Look Like You Love Me - Ella Langley

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dishstaller

Yesterday at 10:20 PM

See Me Feel Me - The Who

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long_time_Dish

Yesterday at 10:57 PM

Take It Easy On Me - Little River Band

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Peter Parker

Supporting Founder Lifetime Supporter

Last reply Yesterday at 10:15 PM · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

DISH Hopper 3 Software Version 713 Is Out

No idea what improvements might be involved.

19 Replies · 806 views

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bookworm370

Saturday at 3:17 PM

Has anyone noticed an FF stutter with 713? I used to be able to hit FF a few times and skip smoothly. After 713 (maybe 712), when I skip forward, there is a definite stutter for as many times as I have pressed FF.

Can anyone check on this and report back? Recorded programs and then press skip forward a few times to see if it's smooth? Normally, it just jumps to the right place after the skips.

Reactions: charlesrshell

naptime

Yesterday at 1:05 AM

I'm getting fabulous picture on Ch. 148 4k, but zero audio with H713. This is with a recorded show (Notre Dame game). Anyone else have this? Audio is fine on every other channel.

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reubenray

Yesterday at 6:14 AM

bookworm370 said:
Has anyone noticed an FF stutter with 713? I used to be able to hit FF a few times and skip smoothly. After 713 (maybe 712), when I skip forward, there is a definite stutter for as many times as I have pressed FF.

Can anyone check on this and report back? Recorded programs and then press skip forward a few times to see if it's smooth? Normally, it just jumps to the right place after the skips.

My wife mentioned that her remote is acting strange this morning. She hit FF and it went to 15x FF.

Reactions: charlesrshell

Bobby

Yesterday at 10:32 AM

naptime said:
I'm getting fabulous picture on Ch. 148 4k, but zero audio with H713. This is with a recorded show (Notre Dame game). Anyone else have this? Audio is fine on every other channel.

This has been an ongoing issue. A fix is coming, probably in the next software version.

Reactions: naptime and charlesrshell

dishstaller

Yesterday at 1:01 PM

reubenray said:
My wife mentioned that her remote is acting strange this morning.

Had a customer call recently saying their remote was really acting up, some buttons no longer functioned. Told them to reboot the Hopper....problem fixed.
Wife bought me a t-shirt that has "have you tried turning it off and on again?"

https://www.amazon.com/Have-Tried-Turning-Again-T-Shirt/dp/B07G1ZV9W9/ref=sr_1_11?crid=3NNRAEED195WV&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.86TxUTPcw48CRYlDcLntwpMxbPDBfjiLu4wMZGX3VN6ajG_cFCuoDBJT7pS9CW2mjThKlke5Z6dlXH8bJKkQF4s892wGVU1ca_00S0BQz6F15V30_4szIdWeycvw3_zoVtsULQASM8bGcgvsKms930xApC43y_-YBVN0Q8Xsf_csSqXcmhWpresARdXHfx2VazllrXI8asduvrbnk9S3CGnzjqnVTkjzFSpSQLdQKA6Dx_7UfbQIBBJsqAmQwwtDGqM0YKVIkjV4ARgVJvJ69vLPhxV0m8pkJQd_2w_QX_A.-jSy9OqrqWdxPBsgZGia1hHMbvDAKxxhRn9kK1EBdCc&dib_tag=se&keywords=have%2Byou%2Btried%2Bturning%2Bit%2Boff%2Band%2Bon%2Bagain&nsdOptOutParam=true&qid=1792342839&sprefix=have%2Byou%2Btried%2B%2Caps%2C265&sr=8-11&customId=B0752XJYNL&customizationToken=MC_Assembly_1%23B0752XJYNL&th=1&psc=1

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cpdretired

Yesterday at 6:58 PM

dishstaller said:
Had a customer call recently saying their remote was really acting up, some buttons no longer functioned. Told them to reboot the Hopper....problem fixed.
Wife bought me a t-shirt that has "have you tried turning it off and on again?"

https://www.amazon.com/Have-Tried-Turning-Again-T-Shirt/dp/B07G1ZV9W9/ref=sr_1_11?crid=3NNRAEED195WV&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.86TxUTPcw48CRYlDcLntwpMxbPDBfjiLu4wMZGX3VN6ajG_cFCuoDBJT7pS9CW2mjThKlke5Z6dlXH8bJKkQF4s892wGVU1ca_00S0BQz6F15V30_4szIdWeycvw3_zoVtsULQASM8bGcgvsKms930xApC43y_-YBVN0Q8Xsf_csSqXcmhWpresARdXHfx2VazllrXI8asduvrbnk9S3CGnzjqnVTkjzFSpSQLdQKA6Dx_7UfbQIBBJsqAmQwwtDGqM0YKVIkjV4ARgVJvJ69vLPhxV0m8pkJQd_2w_QX_A.-jSy9OqrqWdxPBsgZGia1hHMbvDAKxxhRn9kK1EBdCc&dib_tag=se&keywords=have%2Byou%2Btried%2Bturning%2Bit%2Boff%2Band%2Bon%2Bagain&nsdOptOutParam=true&qid=1792342839&sprefix=have%2Byou%2Btried%2B%2Caps%2C265&sr=8-11&customId=B0752XJYNL&customizationToken=MC_Assembly_1%23B0752XJYNL&th=1&psc=1

Works every time. My wife needs one.

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Foxbat

Yesterday at 7:14 PM

dishstaller said:
Wife bought me a t-shirt that has "have you tried turning it off and on again?"

Here's the one I need:

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dishstaller

Yesterday at 10:15 PM

Foxbat said:
Here's the one I need:

View attachment 194877

Just ordered one....that's great.

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dfergie

Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU!

Last reply Yesterday at 10:06 PM · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Gas Price Info With National Gas Temperature Map

Stumbled across this ... http://www.gaspricewatch.com/USGas_ZipSearch.asp
I found no local prices, although it did show stations at my location...
Added these to this post...
USA National Gas Temperature Map
State By State Gasoline Taxes
Gas Buddy

Ethanol Free Stations

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Bobby

Yesterday at 10:27 AM

Regular$5.999
Premium$6.399
Diesel$7.999
at Costco, Rohnert Park.

Reactions: harshness

harshness

Yesterday at 11:30 AM

I wonder if California is getting into the Winter formula.

dishstaller

Yesterday at 12:32 PM

Bobby said:
Regular$5.999
Premium$6.399

Odd that out there, Prem is only 40 cents higher. Here it's a full dollar more.

Last night it was about $4.17 gas, $6,19 diesel.

harshness

Yesterday at 2:04 PM

dishstaller said:
Odd that out there, Prem is only 40 cents higher. Here it's a full dollar more.

On the West Coast, a 40-cent differential is common. It used to be 30 cents before the prices rose above $3.

A "full dollar more" sounds like it may be boat gas (non-alcoholic), which is a whole different discussion.

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Foxbat

Yesterday at 9:43 PM

Here in Indiana, the difference between Regular and Premium is usually a dollar, but some charge even more:

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dishstaller

Yesterday at 10:06 PM

harshness said:
A "full dollar more" sounds like it may be boat gas (non-alcoholic),

Both non-ethanol and prem run about the same....buck more. When we were up in TN it was a buck more up there as well.

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jokeworm

Last reply Yesterday at 10:03 PM · posted in What's Cooking?

What's for dinner ?

Ok, I'm bored .... actually - to be more precise - I'm bored of eating the same rotation of 9 or 10 meals that are currently my "go-to" meals. My wife works the long hours - I work from home as and when i feel like it ... which means i generally do most of the cooking ... and so by default - i also make out the shopping list ...

We cook at home 5 or even 6 nights a week - but we always seem to fall back on the same old tried and tested "quick and easy but tastes ok" meals. Week in week out.

Pot Roast - mash and Peas.
Spaghetti
Chicken Pasta in cheese sauce.
Curry & rice
(these are some of mine)

Now it's not that I'm not adventurous in the kitchen ... I'll try anything once or twice ... but we all do it. Unless your name is Martha Stewart or Rachel Ray .. we all eventually fall back on our 8-10 favorite "meals"

So i thought - if we shared some of our own go-to meals with each other ... we might be able to add a few "new" ones to our own arsenal of meals.

So again - I ask you ...

What's for dinner tonight ?

Please give me something new to add to my rotation ... its our weekly shop tomorrow - so i want to pull together a few idea's and try and eat a meal each day next week that I've never had before .. or at least something that is not on my current "go-to" meal plan.

What meal do you always seem to fall back on in your house ? Maybe its something that I've never tried or not had in a while. I need inspiration !! I've got a blank shopping list in front of me - and nothing sounds good .. HELP !

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TRG

Sep 29, 2026

Beef and vegetable stew with buttermilk biscuits. Water.
It seemed appropriate on an unusually cold and wet evening in New Mexico.

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Bobby

Oct 12, 2026

Chili Cheesebugers, Tater Tots.

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TRG

Oct 12, 2026

I made shrimp parmesan with spaghetti and a salad.

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slow_poke_pete

Yesterday at 9:47 PM

venison lasagna

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dishstaller

Yesterday at 10:03 PM

Smoked some salmon on the grill while enjoying some Blue Moon beer. Kinda cool tonight so I fired up the heaters. Here in FL, we fire up heaters once the temps get below 60 :cool

As for the salmon, I seared them first, then flipped them off to the side not over the coals and brushed on some lemon pepper marinade followed by some salmon seasoning. Threw some hickory chips on the coals and then closed the vents to about 10% airflow. Yum.

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osu1991

Pub Member / Supporter

Last reply Yesterday at 8:46 PM · posted in The Chit Chat Club

EV News

America’s Fastest-Growing EV State Isn’t California—Not by a Long Shot

New data shows electric vehicle adoption is increasingly driven by state policies, electricity prices and charging access—not federal incentives

www.autoweek.com

The number-one US state for EV growth, according to the June 22 Yardi report?
Oklahoma.

:eek

It has no ZEV mandates and "minimal" incentives, Yardi says, but also has cheap electricity, high multi-car household rates (so, for example, a non-Lightning Ford F-150 pulls their trailers), and a consumer base willing to switch.

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navychop

Sep 22, 2026

Servant's problem.

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meStevo

Sep 26, 2026

tomwellborn3rd (@wellborn.net)

This author has chosen to make their posts visible only to people who are signed in.

bsky.app

Never realized that Tesla is losing to BYD at manufacturing too, which IMO is Tesla's biggest accomplishment and area of innovation. Nice writeup about the state of play and how we got here though. I have no faith that we're moving any productive direction though sadly, most changes and efforts feel reactionary rather than rooted in making use of the time being bought by tariffs, with few exceptions.

So: how are the cars so cheap, and what is being cut to get there? The best public accounting comes from the Rhodium Group, which compared BYD, Geely, and Leapmotor against Tesla's Chinese operation, a fair comparison because it removes labor costs and shipping from the equation entirely. Their estimate is that BYD builds a car for about $4,700 less than Tesla builds a Model 3 in Shanghai, roughly 15 percent of the Model 3's price. The breakdown is the interesting part. Direct government grants account for about $292 per vehicle, which is 5 percent of the gap. The biggest single factor is vertical integration: BYD makes about 80 percent of its top-tier components in-house, against 37 percent for Tesla, and that eliminates roughly $2,369 per vehicle in supplier markups. Lower overhead, meaning cheaper engineering talent and administrative cost spread across enormous volume, accounts for another $1,719. And BYD pays its suppliers on 155-day terms, against Tesla's 60, which is worth about $214 per car in float. When people say the Chinese advantage is subsidies, the per-vehicle number says otherwise. When people say it is slave wages, the Tesla Shanghai comparison says otherwise too. The advantage is mostly that BYD decided, twenty years ago, to make its own batteries, its own motors, its own power electronics, and its own semiconductors, and Western automakers decided the opposite.

harshness

Sep 27, 2026

The EV company to watch out for is SAIC. They seem likely to take over Government Motors at some point.

GM originally struck a JV deal with SAIC to gain access to China. Now SAIC has taken China back with the substantial library of technology GM shared and they're looking to export to Mexico, South America, the Middle East, and Asia-Pacific.

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osu1991

Oct 9, 2026

View: https://youtu.be/AzErJdWUDTE?si=sdAjeOen3sKm8DV9

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osu1991

Yesterday at 8:46 PM

US EV sales are rising again. Here’s why the recovery is set to last.

Even though sales tanked last year after the end of federal incentives, the American EV sector is on the mend as drivers face sky-high gasoline prices.

www.canarymedia.com

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TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Yesterday at 7:52 PM · posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network

Microsoft Defender Arriving on Linux

Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mO_nW-BTlv4

Direct YouTube Link - Microsoft Defender Arriving on Linux
TWIT's Website
TWIT Live Feed

0 Replies · 19 views

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Ham Radio 2.0

Yesterday at 7:22 PM · posted in Ham Radio 2.0

LIVE!

Time for another AWESOME video from Ham Radio 2.0!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDeuQ1SLkQU

Direct YouTube Link - LIVE!
Ham Radio 2.0 Website
Ham Radio 2.0 on Facebook

0 Replies · 16 views

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Ramy

Supporting Founder

Last reply Yesterday at 6:34 PM · posted in The Sports Section

2026-27 NCAA College Football

Really excited for this season with Kentucky having a new coach and some really exciting recruits. Probably won't last long, but here's hoping this season is great.

148 Replies · 1743 views

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osu1991

Oct 12, 2026

View: https://youtu.be/HjQO7IWmC50?is=JrnzyTNTv5MoX24u

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osu1991

Oct 12, 2026

View: https://youtu.be/Dj-pH4x_Z1Q?is=CHrZoqR0K3GnQb35

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Howard Simmons

Saturday at 7:45 PM

osu1991 said:
View: https://youtu.be/Dj-pH4x_Z1Q?is=CHrZoqR0K3GnQb35

Down Goes the SEC

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Foxbat

Saturday at 8:17 PM

osu1991 said:

They ought to have fun with this… :devilish

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osu1991

Saturday at 10:14 PM

Foxbat said:
They ought to have fun with this…

Was thinking same thing. It should be a good week for sec shorts and roll call

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reubenray

Yesterday at 6:19 AM

A lot of upsets yesterday, but my LSU Tigers won.

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Foxbat

Yesterday at 6:34 PM

Best fan sign I saw during the ND-BYU game: "Bear ate your Lucky Charms!" (Bear being the Cougars' QB). I was going to suggest, "Have you or your team been involved in a Carr crash?"

Reactions: Jimbo and Mike0616

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