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macgod79
macgod79
Last reply · posted in C-BAND Satellite Discussion

Thinking of getting HITS service

Hey guys i've finally decided to join your great forum after reading and learning about the 4d systems.I regret I couldn't get into it in it's hayday, but i'm so over the high bills I've been getting with dish and direct.I have a few questions. Im new to the whole big dish setup, but I thought id run it past you guys as what the best equipment to get is and what im trying to do.I wanna get a fta receiver, mainly for me, and a 4d for the hits services. What size dish should I start with, what all would I need to get it running like lnb wise. I wanna be able to get cband and the mu channels.As for as receivers I have already ordered me a azbox premium plus hd from ricks. I have so many questions and im new so I hope u guys can help.
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mike74820
mike74820
easiest thing might be to go here DSR-410 Digital Programming they got a dish and receiver or maybe you can find at least
a 6 foot dish and get the dsr410 off ebay or off someone from here
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macgod79
macgod79
I've been to skyvision but I think they are out of stock. I want a setup they will be good for the azbox as well. Also ill need a gbox as well to move my dish correct. What type of lnb and motor should I get?
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L
Lak7
I think what HITS did / doing for existing customers is great, but hard to compare to Cable or Little Dish.
The "full subscription" for each Room and no HD, and no ESPN is a downer for me. (yes, I know you can feed other rooms from 1 box, but you must watch the same channel at the same time)
While the Picture Quality on a SD TV is great, it still does not look that good on an HD TV

For a Motor, but what you can afford and fits the Dish (bigger isn't always better), keep in mind that a DSR 905 can not control a Motor, so you will need a GBox / VBox for positioning.
As for an LNB, the 741 or 241 from Galaxy Marketing should do just fine for both the 905 and AZBox.
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R
raiderjoe
im in NC near monroe/charlotte area

I also got the 185cm special and i locked in good with 99 west...old programs,sports and a few networks.However i purchsed an actuator and bought cable for it,but decided that no other sats stand out unless im a religious guy,so maybe 95 west il give it a try.Macgod hope all is working for you...it is hard work and i keep driving my family insane with the signal meter beeps ..but hey its a hobby.
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NotTy
NotTy
I have an old 7.5 foot mesh dish from 1992 & use the 922 to move it & to control the lnb for the OpenBox. I currently don't get hits but working on that by getting a second, stand alone dish dedicated to X4 where a 410 receiver will be connected to. Out my way, you can spot the old BUDs all along the highway. When it gets warmer, I plan to find a decent looking one & offering the homeowner to dispose of one & then plant it in my back yard. The 410 is what's going to be hard to find. But a converted 922 will work too, even if it's been bricked, & if it's on X4 24/7, the guide issues shouldn't be a problem. In theory that is.
By the way, I am only C-band at this time & not sure how well KU band will work with one of these mesh BUDs.
I've also moved 3 times since 1992. Every time I moved, I would place the dish on G5 (at that time anyway) then disconnected the cable & all the wires, loosened the bolts that hold the dish on the pole, & with a helper, slid it off the pole & set it carefully in the back of a pickup. Remounting the BUD at it's new home on a new, perfectly plumb pole, was a breeze. I would slide the whole BUD assembly onto the new pole, barely snug the bolts, then turn the entire BUD assembly back & forth on the pole until G5 came in nice & strong. Then tighten everything down & I was done.
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Bruce
Bruce
Supporting Founder Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in Internet Television (IPTV) Discussion Forum

Paramount +

For the naysayers who did not think this service would make it, just added another 4.9M subscribers and that was after the removal of 1.2M Russia subscribers.

This is even better, Paramount+ revenue grew 120% and Subscription revenue grew 74% year-over-year ( 2nd quarter 2021/ 2nd quarter 2022) to $830M, principally reflecting paid subscriber growth on Paramount+.

Now compare that to Peacock with only 13 million paid, 13 million free.

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Bruce
Bruce
Just noticed, CBS shows on Paramount+ are now same day premieres vs next day, which is how they used to be.

Also in 4K/HDR/DV.

I wonder how providers feel about this, they pay an expensive per sub fee for CBS, who is giving another positive reason to drop Paid Live TV and subscribe to P+.
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Jimbo
Jimbo
Bruce said:
Just noticed, CBS shows on Paramount+ are now same day premieres vs next day, which is how they used to be.

Also in 4K/HDR/DV.

I wonder how providers feel about this, they pay an expensive per sub fee for CBS, who is giving another positive reason to drop Paid Live TV and subscribe to P+.
Click to expand...
So, this means that those of us with Commercial Free subs, won't be Commercial Free, unless we wait till after the show is over ?
Which would make same day, not that big of a deal. :confused:
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b4pjoe
b4pjoe
Jimbo said:
So, this means that those of us with Commercial Free subs, won't be Commercial Free, unless we wait till after the show is over ?
Which would make same day, not that big of a deal. :confused:
Click to expand...
Paramount+ has always had the CBS shows on the CBS local channel and yes with commercials. What they are doing now is releasing the OnDemand versions of the show which I believe they don't release until after the shows air on the west coast. And they will be commercial free if you subscribe to the ad free version of Paramount+.
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Jimbo
Jimbo
b4pjoe said:
Paramount+ has always had the CBS shows on the CBS local channel and yes with commercials. What they are doing now is releasing the OnDemand versions of the show which I believe they don't release until after the shows air on the west coast. And they will be commercial free if you subscribe to the ad free version of Paramount+.
Click to expand...
So, the New season won't be on the same day commercial free ???

Looks like the On Demand will Still be the Next Day ...

If you have the Top tier, you could get the LIVE Network feed same as any Cable or OTA would.
===============================================================================

Key facts

  • Premiere date: Tuesday, Oct. 6, 2026
  • Release schedule: Weekly on Tuesdays
  • Network: CBS
  • Streaming: Paramount+*
  • Series created by: Donald P. Bellisario and Don McGill
*New episodes of NCIS stream live on Paramount+ as they air on CBS for subscribers of the Paramount+ Premium plan. Episodes stream on demand on Paramount+ on the day after they air on CBS for all subscribers.
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b4pjoe
b4pjoe
Jimbo said:
So, the New season won't be on the same day commercial free ???

Looks like the On Demand will Still be the Next Day ...

If you have the Top tier, you could get the LIVE Network feed same as any Cable or OTA would.
===============================================================================

Key facts

  • Premiere date: Tuesday, Oct. 6, 2026
  • Release schedule: Weekly on Tuesdays
  • Network: CBS
  • Streaming: Paramount+*
  • Series created by: Donald P. Bellisario and Don McGill
*New episodes of NCIS stream live on Paramount+ as they air on CBS for subscribers of the Paramount+ Premium plan. Episodes stream on demand on Paramount+ on the day after they air on CBS for all subscribers.
Click to expand...
Watching it on the CBS local on Paramount+ is the exact same as watching it on your CBS local on your current cable/satellite/mvpd/vMVPD service. The OnDemand versions of it can be released on the same day that it airs but usually it is after the show airs on the west coast so if you have a show at 7:00 pm in your time zone and it airs 3 hours later on the west coast at 10:00 pm your time then they could release it at 11:00 pm your time if it was a one hour show. I really have not checked to see what time I can see the ad free OnDemand shows on Paramount+. I know today that last nights FBI and CIA show did not pop into the Up Next row on my Apple TV until this afternoon. I guess it may have been in Paramount+ since last night but I never checked it.
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Jimbo
Jimbo
b4pjoe said:
Watching it on the CBS local on Paramount+ is the exact same as watching it on your CBS local on your current cable/satellite/mvpd/vMVPD service. The OnDemand versions of it can be released on the same day that it airs but usually it is after the show airs on the west coast so if you have a show at 7:00 pm in your time zone and it airs 3 hours later on the west coast at 10:00 pm your time then they could release it at 11:00 pm your time if it was a one hour show. I really have not checked to see what time I can see the ad free OnDemand shows on Paramount+. I know today that last nights FBI and CIA show did not pop into the Up Next row on my Apple TV until this afternoon. I guess it may have been in Paramount+ since last night but I never checked it.
Click to expand...
I think I read 3am est the next day, somewhere.
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jamieh1
jamieh1
Last reply · posted in DIRECTV Programming Forum

Directv curated multi view now live

The new curated multiview is now live.
While on many of the sports channels and non sports channels there is a multi view option button. It will pull up a side bar with many different multi view options.
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K
KyL416
It's now expanded to a Build Your Own Multiview, currently available to streaming customers with Geminis and Roku, and coming soon to Android TV, Fire TV, Vizio, LG, Apple TV and Tizen.
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b4pjoe
b4pjoe
KyL416 said:
It's now expanded to a Build Your Own Multiview, currently available to streaming customers with Geminis and Roku, and coming soon to Android TV, Fire TV, Vizio, LG, Apple TV and Tizen.
Click to expand...
But not on the only device they ship out right now which is the Gemini Air.
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TheRatPatrol
TheRatPatrol
KyL416 said:
It's now expanded to a Build Your Own Multiview, currently available to streaming customers with Geminis and Roku, and coming soon to Android TV, Fire TV, Vizio, LG, Apple TV and Tizen.
Click to expand...
How soon will it be available on Apple TV? Thanks
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I WANT MORE
I WANT MORE
b4pjoe said:
But not on the only device they ship out right now which is the Gemini Air.
Click to expand...
It's on my Air's.
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"MysteryMan"
"MysteryMan"
Pub Member / Supporter Cutting Edge
Last reply · posted in Computers and Gadgets

Windows 10/11 Download

I created this thread on the original Edgecutter Cutting Edge Forums site. It's simply a place for those to review the latest software available for those using Windows 10 and Windows 11. To date it has received 112,559 views. I have been asked by staff to continue this thread here.
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EarDemon
EarDemon
If it wasn't for what I want, I wouldn't need any of this.

Do I need a collection of handheld radios, scanners and speed enforcement countermeasures? Nope, but I want them. Very little, if any of the software used to interface with these devices is available on Linux.
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WhiteBeard
WhiteBeard
EarDemon said:
If it wasn't for what I want, I wouldn't need any of this.

Do I need a collection of handheld radios, scanners and speed enforcement countermeasures? Nope, but I want them. Very little, if any of the software used to interface with these devices is available on Linux.
Click to expand...
To each there own but I've found that Windows can't do much more than Linux can. Can't have everything. ☹️
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EarDemon
EarDemon
WhiteBeard said:
To each there own but I've found that Windows can't do much more than Linux can. Can't have everything. ☹️
Click to expand...
For niche use cases, yes I agree. Kali for ethical hacking and security testing, and running a Cacti server for network monitoring are the two things I have experience in. Plus thousands and thousands of other things, but for every day use I just can't see it. The owner of the GMRS repeater that I pay to access is changing the Tx DPL tones tomorrow, while Chirp is available on Linux, the software to program my MXT500 is not.

I run Fedora and Ubuntu in VMWare, honestly I don't care much for the UI of either of them and I don't feel like spending days/weeks to customize the UI to make it look Windows-like when I could just use Windows. The cartoonish dock at the bottom of the screen reminds me of Apple products.
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harshness
harshness
EarDemon said:
I don't care much for the UI of either of them and I don't feel like spending days/weeks to customize the UI to make it look Windows-like when I could just use Windows.
Click to expand...
What is so fantabulous about the Windows UI? By many accounts, it has been going downhill since Windows 7.

There are Linux desktops that offer Windows or Mac UIs, yet you don't hear much chatter about them outside of questions about when the creators might get sued.
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EarDemon
EarDemon
harshness said:
What is so fantabulous about the Windows UI?
Click to expand...
Because it's what I prefer. I know I've said this a few times, I use Open Shell to give me the cascading start menu a la WIN 95 and NT4.0. The only reason I went from Windows Vista to 7 back in the day was because of Classic Shell. I cannot stand anything other than the OG start menu from 30+ years ago. I'm using ExplorerPatcher to give me Windows 10 UI elements of the taskbar and right click context menus.

If you could take a look at how I set up Windows 95, you'd find many similarities to how I use 11.
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EarDemon
EarDemon
I could probably use that as a starting point, but I don't like the full size icons. If you have to click on each folder that's also a no-go for me, it has to be cascading.

I used to have Peppermint Linux in a VM, that was about as close as I could get to recreating a Windows NT4.0 style of menu structure, but I could never get it to scale properly in VMWare on a 4K display and eventually gave up.

Whatever the boot up time it's fine with me. The longest part of my bootup is the HP SureStart BIOS integrity check. Once that is done, it's only a few more seconds. I haven't done this reg tweak yet since the reformat, but I switched the bootup animation to the Windows 10 style spinning circle of dots, and it's two and a half rotations. I can live with that.
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harshness
harshness
EarDemon said:
Because it's what I prefer.
Click to expand...
I hope you don't believe that makes it wonderful (especially when you're using workarounds for Microsoft's malfeasance).

I use LibreOffice as opposed to Microsoft office (even in Windows) because it's UI is like the Office of old, so I'm putting my money where my mouth is (in a manner of speaking). The ribbon was one of the worst ideas to come out Redmond.
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HipKat
HipKat
EarDemon said:
I could probably use that as a starting point, but I don't like the full size icons. If you have to click on each folder that's also a no-go for me, it has to be cascading.

I used to have Peppermint Linux in a VM, that was about as close as I could get to recreating a Windows NT4.0 style of menu structure, but I could never get it to scale properly in VMWare on a 4K display and eventually gave up.

Whatever the boot up time it's fine with me. The longest part of my bootup is the HP SureStart BIOS integrity check. Once that is done, it's only a few more seconds. I haven't done this reg tweak yet since the reformat, but I switched the bootup animation to the Windows 10 style spinning circle of dots, and it's two and a half rotations. I can live with that.
Click to expand...
I used to pin the C: drive to the Win Taskbar and it would open in cascading style
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Former member 209992
Former member 209992
Last reply · posted in SatelliteGuys Support Center

Site is slooooow

For some reason, the satelliteguys.us site is loading a lot slower than usual on both Chrome on my Asus laptop and Safari on my iPhone.
I'm also seeing longer appearances of the blue bar at the top and the "3 blue bars" loading symbol.
Is anyone else also having the same problem? Thanks in advance.
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Scott Greczkowski
Scott Greczkowski
Remember folks... just like DNS... its always Foxbat. :D
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Foxbat
Foxbat
Scott Greczkowski said:
Remember folks... just like DNS... its always Foxbat. :D
Click to expand...
WTF… …What the Foxbat!😱
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S
slow_poke_pete
zipping right along here
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S
slow_poke_pete
Foxbat said:
WTF… …What the Foxbat!😱
Click to expand...
wow what a kick in the balls!!! the wife blames you when things don't work now scott's blaming you :biggrin
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Foxbat
Foxbat
slow_poke_pete said:
wow what a kick in the balls!!! the wife blames you when things don't work now scott's blaming you :biggrin
Click to expand...
I know. Here's what Scott has in store for me if I get out of line:
IMG_1990.webp
IMG_1989.webp
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S
slow_poke_pete
Foxbat said:
I know. Here's what Scott has in store for me if I get out of line:
Click to expand...
OMG to freaking funny :biggrin
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cpdretired
cpdretired
Supporting Founder
Last reply · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

Dish Offers

Several Dish offers showed up today in my account. Once you choose one the rest are removed. Offers were Showtime, Starz, AMC and others.
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B
bnewt
Just checked my account and it shows mgm+ at 8.00 per month, but that has red line drawn thru it and shows 0.00 per month. But it doesn't say how long this lasts,...... 1 month, 3 months, forever. I called customer service to get an answer, and they said nothing like that exists. Should I add the offer or not? Already paying them too much, but want to take advantage of something free.
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ewindowman
ewindowman
Lots of offers on the hopper account app . On the website there are only a few.
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Almighty1
Almighty1
ewindowman said:
Lots of offers on the hopper account app . On the website there are only a few.
Click to expand...
Never had time to use the Hopper 3 account app yet. I also have a Hopper Plus so it's not the same as the Hopper 3 standalone. Will try it when I have more time, need to beat the taxes extension filing deadline first as I am still working on entering the data into the tax software.
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Almighty1
Almighty1
This is what I see when it comes to offers on My Account on the Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus and dish.com:

AMC+ 50% off for 3 months (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus)
AMC+ Free for 3 months (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus and dish.com)
AMC+ 1 month free (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus)

Cine y Entretenimie 50% off for 3 months

DOGTV 1 month free (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus)

DISH Movie Pack 50% off for 6 months (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus and dish.com)

DOGTV 50% off for 6 months (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus)
DOGTV 1 month free (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus)

Gallery First Month Free (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus)

Heartland Pack 50% off for 6 months (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus and dish.com)

Mexico y Mas 50% off for 3 months (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus)

MGM+ $0.00/Month not saying how long (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus)

Multi-Sport Pack 50% off for 6 months (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus)

Netflix Standard with Ads, $7.99/month credit toward Netflix Standard with Ads ($.99) month with 24 month DISH commitment
(Only on My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus)

Outdoor Pack 50% off for 6 months (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus)

Paramount+ with SHOWTIME 50% off for three months (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus and dish.com)
Paramount+ with SHOWTIME 2 months free (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus)

Playboy TV 50% off for 6 months (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus)

Republica Dominicana 50% off for 3 months (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus)

STARZ 50% off for 3 months (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus)
STARZ $1.99/month for 2 months (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus and dish.com)

Sudamerica y Mas 50% off for 3 months (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus)

UP Faith & Family 1 month free (My Account Hopper 3 with Hopper Plus)
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S
slow_poke_pete
bnewt said:
Just checked my account and it shows mgm+ at 8.00 per month, but that has red line drawn thru it and shows 0.00 per month. But it doesn't say how long this lasts,...... 1 month, 3 months, forever. I called customer service to get an answer, and they said nothing like that exists. Should I add the offer or not? Already paying them too much, but want to take advantage of something free.
Click to expand...
look again mine says free for 1 month
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Almighty1
Almighty1
slow_poke_pete said:
look again mine says free for 1 month
Click to expand...
Not for me, mines has no mention of how long aka the offer period and the Terms and conditions the $0.00 is good for. All I see is one can lose $5.00 if you decide to remove it before day 31 after you add it to the account.

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slow_poke_pete
Almighty1 said:
Not for me, mines has no mention of how long aka the offer period and the Terms and conditions the $0.00 is good for. All I see is one can lose $5.00 if you decide to remove it before day 31 after you add it to the account.

View attachment 194817
Click to expand...
wonder why it says that
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Scott Greczkowski
Scott Greczkowski
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Song Name Game Part 3!

Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne


Get it?


An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....
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sdfntx
White Noise - Jessie Baylin
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dishstaller
dishstaller
White Rabbit - Jefferson Airplane
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long_time_Dish
White Sun - The Doobie Brothers
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hwkn
White Room-Cream
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ClarkGable
ClarkGable
White Wedding - Billy Idol
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TWiT Tech Podcast Network
· posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network

AI Can Self-Replicate: Unplugging the Threat! #shorts

Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!


View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/z72cjoZP83E


Direct YouTube Link - AI Can Self-Replicate: Unplugging the Threat! #shorts
TWIT's Website
TWIT Live Feed
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TWiT Tech Podcast Network
· posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network

AI Model Poisoning: The Hidden Threat on Hugging Face #shorts

Time for another AWESOME video from the TWIT Network!


View: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/w5TOILSc_U8


Direct YouTube Link - AI Model Poisoning: The Hidden Threat on Hugging Face #shorts
TWIT's Website
TWIT Live Feed
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jannah
jannah
Last reply · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

Purchased Joey 4 avtivate

Help, I'm a little confjused on the activation process.
I purchased the Joey 4 from Solid Signal and shipping box has Call 866 726-4282 to Avtivate new Receiver. That number is Solid Signals number.
I googled and that search said call Dish to activate. I assume that is correct unless this requires a 2 step process.
Please let me know.
Thanks
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jannah
jannah
All good called Dish and new Joey 4 is activated and working.
Old Joey 2 deactivated and no need to return. 🙂
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slow_poke_pete
jannah said:
All good called Dish and new Joey 4 is activated and working.
Old Joey 2 deactivated and no need to return. 🙂
Click to expand...
i bought mine straight from dish as it was only $ 100.00 bucks!!! had the protection plan they came out removed and deactivated the 4k joey and activated and installed the joey 4.
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zcrayfish
zcrayfish
Solid signal has provided the wrong number on their website to activate Dish boxes for years now.
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Nominal
Nominal
I don't know if things are different with Dish but when I first rejoined DirecTV a few years ago Solid Signal was able to create my account and activate the equipment I got from them on a self-install without a truck roll.
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S
slow_poke_pete
zcrayfish said:
Solid signal has provided the wrong number on their website to activate Dish boxes for years now.
Click to expand...
1-800-333-3474. billing or tech support should be able to do it!!!
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S
slow_poke_pete
jannah said:
Help, I'm a little confjused on the activation process.
I purchased the Joey 4 from Solid Signal and shipping box has Call 866 726-4282 to Avtivate new Receiver. That number is Solid Signals number.
I googled and that search said call Dish to activate. I assume that is correct unless this requires a 2 step process.
Please let me know.
Thanks
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just call dish and iggy the number from solid signal!!
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Foxbat
Foxbat
Supporting Founder Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in Internet Television (IPTV) Discussion Forum

New Apple TV 4K released, plus other Apple Home devices.

Apple has finally released their Apple TV 4K with built-in Siri and a microphone so it can respond to your queries even if you don't have the remote. It also increases in price, to $299. I had been planning on updating my current Apple TV 4K streamers, but that's $600 for the two of them, and that's a pass at this point.

At $299, it had better come with 256 GB of Storage, Gigabit (or better) Ethernet, the latest HDMI tech and standards, and one year of free Apple One. But it probably won't…
www.apple.com

Apple TV 4K

Apple TV 4K. New Siri AI and hands-free control. Stunning picture and immersive HomePod surround sound. Works with your Apple and smart home devices.
www.apple.com
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Ronnie-
Ronnie-
Meh. The 4Ks I have will do everything that these do that I need them to do.


Which that's most tech these days for anything released the last four to five years.


It's honestly a testament to how good the previous gen Apple TVs were and are.
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navychop
navychop
Ronnie- said:
It's honestly a testament to how good the previous gen Apple TVs were and are.
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Don't tell them that. They'll adopt planned obsolescence.
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Foxbat
Foxbat
The only thing I can see that is compelling is the AV1 decoding done in the A19's hardware instead of the current ATV4K's processor.
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navychop
navychop
Outside of gaming, would Joe Sixpack notice any difference?
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KAB
KAB
navychop said:
Outside of gaming, would Joe Sixpack notice any difference?
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Not a bit. IMO, Apple's are slow to boot up. Time is about the same with 1st gen and 3rd. Roku runs rings around them in that department. I only reason I stuck, is the Apple infrastructure, which has it's definite advantages. But $300 is a deal breaker. Later, Apple!
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slow_poke_pete
navychop said:
Don't tell them that. They'll adopt planned obsolescence.
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they all do that anyways.. ever notice your cell phone slows down when you come up for an upgrade.. :what. apple's been making money off of software and not hardware for a while
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