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T
Last reply · posted in C-BAND Satellite Discussion
Need input from the masses. What Satellites should be dropped or added to the 4D Map Master Program. 4D Map Master... The ONLY way to map the 4DTV! Your input will be used to help what we will have for an end product when it's rolled out.
32 Replies · 7822 views
Anony55
Had the 4play thing worked out, one of the things I had planned on doing was adding the channels that we get with generics directly into the correct tile. If this were done, the generics wouldn't be as necessary. I guess some would still want to "surf" with the generics to see what they could find. But once found, the channel could be added to the appropriate regular tile.

I almost agree with only tile per orbital location. That would certainly be good enough as a master mover for FTA. But, it would would eliminate the ability to receive analog feeds on whichever band there wasn't a tile for. And there are still times when there is a feed of interest on analog C or Ku. Not real often, but it does still happen.

I would think a cutoff point after so far east could be figured out.

Cheers
L
Had the 4play thing worked out, one of the things I had planned on doing was adding the channels that we get with generics directly into the correct tile. If this were done, the generics wouldn't be as necessary. I guess some would still want to "surf" with the generics to see what they could find. But once found, the channel could be added to the appropriate regular tile.

I almost agree with only tile per orbital location. That would certainly be good enough as a master mover for FTA. But, it would would eliminate the ability to receive analog feeds on whichever band there wasn't a tile for. And there are still times when there is a feed of interest on analog C or Ku. Not real often, but it does still happen.

I would think a cutoff point after so far east could be figured out.

Cheers

What ku sat (real name or orbital location please) is used for feeds, how often and certain transponders? You are speaking of analog too, not dvb. If you don't want to post here, PM me so we can include this in the maps. As TVRO stated, some ku sats are useless, all you need is -1- placeholder for c or ku DVB only satellite. We are going to flush some of this old unneeded data from the box. Let me know of any ku that needs to stay (other than Anik's) The eastern satellite will be 30W unless we need anything further than that. There is always option of adding your own satellite placeholders wherever you want, like always. I am in eastern US and only get to 40.5W without fubarring my actuator arm, so I don't think too many folks will need to go below 30W. Let me know.
Anony55
What ku sat (real name or orbital location please) is used for feeds, how often and certain transponders?...

Man, I don't really write this stuff down like I should. Of course, there's more analog on C than Ku. But you're asking about Ku, so I'll try to make my memory work as well as possible.

I know that over the last couple of years I've seen analog Ku sports wildfeeds on AMC-15, AMC-16, and H2. I have no clue what TPs they were on. And it's been a while for H2 (longer than the other 2). AMC-16 was pro stuff, while AMC-15 was NCAA football that airs on a certain college sports channel (I think some Murdock guy might have a hand in that one ;)). H2 was nearly any kind of sport, but to be honest, I haven't looked much for analog on H2 for a while now.

I almost hate to even bring analog Ku up at all. We all know what the trend has been. Who even knows if there will be any analog Ku sports at all this coming football season. I just want to keep my analog options open until it finally does really die... all the way.

I'm just one guy. And I only look when I look. Perhaps others will have locations for analog Ku as well.

Cheers

EDIT: I just noticed that you also asked how often. The answer to that one is... not very.
G
Is 4D Map Master Legally Dangerous?

Dear All,

I just read Mr. Scott Greczkowski's message accompanying the notice that he has merged the 4DTV Forum with the C-Band Forum. He began by telling his readers that 4DTV is dead. To substantiate his idea, he cited a couple of events. Those things did not make me write this message.

The following is what did. A lawyer telephoned Mr. Greczkowski. His subject was Mr. Greczkowski's allegedly having violated Motorola's rights. Today, Mr. Greczkowski is growing enough ice to sink the Titanic. This, uh, "gent" threatened Mr. Greczkowski implicitly by calling at his workplace. Worse, he threatened him explicitly for allegedly having violated Motorola's rights: he had allowed members of his Forum to discuss "the program" and "the project" (Mr. Greczkowski's words).

Mr. Greczkowski wrote that he has deleted almost all material relating to the program and the project. When I tried to look up several SatelliteGuys.us messages pertaining to 4D Map Master, I encountered messages advising me to desist.

If Mr. Greczkowski's caller really is an attorney, and if his client has empowered him to make such threats, we need to pay strict attention.

If the program or project that he addressed is 4D Map Master, its makers may find themselves in a predicament similar to that of the unlamented "pirates" who were stealing service from Dishnet and DirecTV.

Motorola may have contracted with the SLD companies not to permit 4DTV receivers' modification even to receive FTA and ITC signals. If they did, 4D Map Master may be "illegal," if a court decides that they had a right under the DMCA to make such an agreement. If so, I will not sign up for a whopping big judgment, even if it would be silly, stupid, corrupt, and generally immoral.

Please tell us the plain truth. Mr. Greczkowski was too frightened to go into specifics. I would love using my DSR-920 as more than a dish-mover, but I will not expose myself to legal danger.

I am not throwing rocks at Mr. Greczkowski. A lawsuit is a fearsome thing. I respect his fear.

Sincerely,

Gordon F. Corbett
T
Dear All,

I just read Mr. Scott Greczkowski's message accompanying the notice that he has merged the 4DTV Forum with the C-Band Forum. He began by telling his readers that 4DTV is dead. To substantiate his idea, he cited a couple of events. Those things did not make me write this message.

The following is what did. A lawyer telephoned Mr. Greczkowski. His subject was Mr. Greczkowski's allegedly having violated Motorola's rights. Today, Mr. Greczkowski is growing enough ice to sink the Titanic. This, uh, "gent" threatened Mr. Greczkowski implicitly by calling at his workplace. Worse, he threatened him explicitly for allegedly having violated Motorola's rights: he had allowed members of his Forum to discuss "the program" and "the project" (Mr. Greczkowski's words).

Mr. Greczkowski wrote that he has deleted almost all material relating to the program and the project. When I tried to look up several SatelliteGuys.us messages pertaining to 4D Map Master, I encountered messages advising me to desist.

If Mr. Greczkowski's caller really is an attorney, and if his client has empowered him to make such threats, we need to pay strict attention.

If the program or project that he addressed is 4D Map Master, its makers may find themselves in a predicament similar to that of the unlamented "pirates" who were stealing service from Dishnet and DirecTV.

Motorola may have contracted with the SLD companies not to permit 4DTV receivers' modification even to receive FTA and ITC signals. If they did, 4D Map Master may be "illegal," if a court decides that they had a right under the DMCA to make such an agreement. If so, I will not sign up for a whopping big judgment, even if it would be silly, stupid, corrupt, and generally immoral.

Please tell us the plain truth. Mr. Greczkowski was too frightened to go into specifics. I would love using my DSR-920 as more than a dish-mover, but I will not expose myself to legal danger.

I am not throwing rocks at Mr. Greczkowski. A lawsuit is a fearsome thing. I respect his fear.

Sincerely,

Gordon F. Corbett

Map Master is written using the original 4Play source code given to us by the inventor. There is nothing illegal about the program it writes maps thats all. Motorola gave it's blessings to 4Play years ago so I truly believe that there is a big hoax being played on Scott.
T
In the time it took me to write this, tvropro posted and it contained something I wasn't aware of, how M felt about 4Play back in the day. According to the post they gave it their blessing - now for M, I find this hard to believe :) but it does tell me they didn't throw lawsuits at the original developer.

GC - I am not a legal eagle when it comes to these things, so I can't answer Yes or No.

In the early days of 4DTV a utility was written (4Play) that allowed interfacing to 4DTV (920) units and performing some changes to the memory, maps, etc. As I understand it, it was discontinued, that is, no longer developed, probably because the original coder found something else to do with his time. Do you know what I mean? - "I've written a utility that allows me to backup satellite maps - great!.....now what shall I do?", probably wasn't interested in making $$$ from it.

There's a whole bunch of discussion topics here and we could go back/forth all week without agreement.

Things have changed though, those things are the stigma that exists now over stealing PayTV. Hacking has been determined to be illegal, makes you a pirate, a criminal - heck no!

Hacking is the same as modifying, it, by itself, is not illegal. I hacked the lights in my house to run from a Home Automation Server - eek! Seriously though, if I hacked my neighbour's house, so I can get free utilities, well that's illegal, building the hack isn't, theft of service is the issue.

Another example is "JTAG" - the 4DTV has a JTAG port, M schematics exist, publicly, on the internet, you can build one if you so feel fit, if you kill your 4DTV - boohoo, sorry for you.

As for M - they historically don't play with anyone else, they have the power, the money and bull headedness to remove anyone who steps slightly out of line.

FWIW - why not, it is there I.P. - they're not in business to give it away!

What I don't understand about this most recent event is why they're doing it, it's almost as though by the development of the project someone's gonna hit the "open everything" switch, a test mode, something that has been buried deep that could be bad for M and their DCII business - is it still theirs, or G?

You like me and others will need to decide if we want to play with our receivers.
T
What I don't understand about this most recent event is why they're doing it, it's almost as though by the development of the project someone's gonna hit the "open everything" switch, a test mode, something that has been buried deep that could be bad for M and their DCII business - is it still theirs, or G?

Is it possible that someome that has cracked DC at some point in time feel now that if there is a threat to what they may have did and expect some kind of ECM's from M that would shut them down. Thats the only threat I can see. Motorola's DC system is very secure. The XC chip is battery protected and any attempt to try to read or write to it it kills itself thats what I know.
Scott Greczkowski
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne


Get it?


An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....
68687 Replies · 2681700 views
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dishstaller
The Wind Cries Mary - Jimi Hendrix
long_time_Dish
Lonely Wind - Kansas
dishstaller
Lonely is the Night - Billy Squier
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long_time_Dish
Tender Is The Night - Jackson Browne
H
THE NIGHT Chicago Died-Paper Lace
dishstaller
Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
This should hit a lot of folks with a dose of reality. I can only imagine how much more common this will get as AI progresses.

I read several stories on this and most are clear as mud. They say a lot of the stolen bitcoin has been "locked out" and that everyone will be made financially whole. I guess time will tell if either of these statements are actually true.

11 Replies · 145 views
Juan
Where would you spend 6.3 billion in crypto without anyone noticing?..In today's digital world most countries are watching purchases over 10k
dishstaller
Follow up to the story. Binance says it has "plugged" 90% of the $6.3 billion with its own cash. Well, that leaves 10% or $630 million that is "unplugged". Are those folks just out of luck?

dishstaller
Where would you spend 6.3 billion in crypto without anyone noticing?
They say it was North Korea so they'll probably just use it to buy things they need....oil, food, etc from nations and entities who don't care where the money comes from and since it is BTC...it can be spent anywhere with no blowback.
Juan
They say it was North Korea so they'll probably just use it to buy things they need....oil, food, etc from nations and entities who don't care where the money comes from and since it is BTC...it can be spent anywhere with no blowback.
Someone using AI would be able to see the purchase...plus if you were to buy a couple billion barrels of oil or any other commodity..someone would notice..or if you bought your own country
T
How does it have such billions simply "on hand" to replace stolen billions?
harshness
How does it have such billions simply "on hand" to replace stolen billions?
You "print" it, of course. That's part of the magic of cryptocurrency.
ewindowman
Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in DISH Network Support Forum
Looks like dish is Bankrupt. Filling tomorrow Tuesday June 30th
429 Replies · 14392 views
ewindowman
Correct me if I'm wrong but Dish borrowed lots of money to start a wireless company that was most likely doomed from the beginning. They bought spectrum at any cost to acquire enough bandwidth to achieve their goal. They signed leases and bought equipment and borrowed more money. They held onto the spectrum as long as possible. They then sold most of it to different companies and made a lot of money. Then they started to screw the companies that were installing and leasing the equipment and cell towers. Now they are going to claim bankruptcy under the Dish Network part of Echo Star while they have billions of dollars. So Dish basically took everyone's money that was involved in the financial part of this transaction made a huge profit is screwing everyone over from the banks to the little guy working on the towers and infrastructure.
Bruce
News about the tower's dispute-

comfortably_numb
News about the tower's dispute-


So does this mean the churches and businesses that Dish owes back payments to are going to get paid now?
nelson61
"
They note that the Dish Wireless radios at issue support the 2GHz and 800MHz spectrum SpaceX is acquiring from EchoStar and Grain.

"Buying compatible equipment already installed on towers could give SpaceX a head start on its wireless terrestrial network build and throw a big bucket of cold water on Verizon's four-to-six-year timeline and $300-$500 billion estimate for SpaceX's buildout," said the analysts."
S
Correct me if I'm wrong but Dish borrowed lots of money to start a wireless company that was most likely doomed from the beginning. They bought spectrum at any cost to acquire enough bandwidth to achieve their goal. They signed leases and bought equipment and borrowed more money. They held onto the spectrum as long as possible. They then sold most of it to different companies and made a lot of money. Then they started to screw the companies that were installing and leasing the equipment and cell towers. Now they are going to claim bankruptcy under the Dish Network part of Echo Star while they have billions of dollars. So Dish basically took everyone's money that was involved in the financial part of this transaction made a huge profit is screwing everyone over from the banks to the little guy working on the towers and infrastructure.
i heard charlie went to dubai begging for money. but he didn't get none... that should have raised red flags.
Former member 209992
Last reply · posted in SatelliteGuys Support Center
For some reason, the satelliteguys.us site is loading a lot slower than usual on both Chrome on my Asus laptop and Safari on my iPhone.
I'm also seeing longer appearances of the blue bar at the top and the "3 blue bars" loading symbol.
Is anyone else also having the same problem? Thanks in advance.
555 Replies · 19964 views
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Foxbat
IMG_1560.webp
A.I. - Be careful what you wish for…
T
6:43p Central was dumped off the site, then when I got back on could not reply to post. Down for several minutes.
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Scott Greczkowski
6:43p Central was dumped off the site, then when I got back on could not reply to post. Down for several minutes.
Yeah... that was me...

I did another security update and it required me to reboot the server.

I also did a patch for something else and accidently put two ;'s in the config file so when the server rebooted it wouldn't restart a service because of the extra ; in the config file.

And of course as I did it my step dad called me slowing me down in figuring it out.

That was a Scott mistake. Sorry about that.
navychop
OFF WITH YOUR HEAD!

Aww- nevermind.

;)
S
been blazing fast here :)
Ramy
Supporting Founder
Last reply · posted in The Sports Section
Really excited for this season with Kentucky having a new coach and some really exciting recruits. Probably won't last long, but here's hoping this season is great.
177 Replies · 2918 views
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Y
You mean other than Miami being in the final last year... and Indiana being the only bye team to win a game?
Jimbo
You mean other than Miami being in the final last year... and Indiana being the only bye team to win a game?
No, I was actually referring to outside of the Top 8, but should have been Top 12 ...

I guess I should have looked at the bracket from last year first ...

I'm more thinking about them trying to expect a 15 to beat a 5 seed or there abouts .
Ronnie-
I'm more thinking about them trying to expect a 15 to beat a 5 seed or there abouts .
I mean you get upsets all the time.

Just a couple of weeks ago. Unranked Florida knocked off number 7 texas. Unranked Auburn beat number 1 Georgia.

This week unranked Cincinnati beat number 8 texas Tech. Unranked UCF beat number 2 BYU.

No reason to think similar upsets wont happen in the playoffs where a low seed can upset a higher one.
Jimbo
I mean you get upsets all the time.

Just a couple of weeks ago. Unranked Florida knocked off number 7 texas. Unranked Auburn beat number 1 Georgia.

This week unranked Cincinnati beat number 8 texas Tech. Unranked UCF beat number 2 BYU.

No reason to think similar upsets wont happen in the playoffs where a low seed can upset a higher one.
Correct, you Do get upsets from time to time ....however .
You Don't get teams UPSETTING teams for 5 weeks in a row.

They are trying to make this Basketball and its a far cry from the way that is played.

How long till they go to 32 teams ? Then they will say, well, the NFL is 32 teams, we can make more money that way .... except the NFL is 32 teams, that are a set number of teams and divisions, you don't have that in College ... oh but they will try.

They would have to choose what teams they would want in and thats it.
Hopefully that NEVER happens.

I can see the NCAA going away and the CFP taking that portion over and a Collective Bargaining agreement coming in the not to distant future.
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Ronnie-
Correct, you Do get upsets from time to time
Yes. As shown in a few posts now.


You Don't get teams UPSETTING teams for 5 weeks in a row.

.
But that wasn't what your stated argument was though.


I mean if you drag it out, no team even a favorite is gonna win every game 20 weeks in a row.


With the parity in college football now, who knows who can beat anyone at any given time?

This season and last have shown it might not be the ones we think that might win it all that will win it all.
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Jimbo
Yes. As shown in a few posts now.



But that wasn't what your stated argument was though.


I mean if you drag it out, no team even a favorite is gonna win every game 20 weeks in a row.


With the parity in college football now, who knows who can beat anyone at any given time?

This season and last have shown it might not be the ones we think that might win it all that will win it all.
No, no ... if you want to make the playoffs, you want to Win it ... If you want to Win it, you need to Win 4-5 games in a row against Top 10 teams for the most part, theres a Possibility you'd play someone out side of the Top 10, but not much.

The Playoffs is a 4-5 game Win or Go Home.
osu1991
:mad:..I hate playing in Ames.
Jimbo
:mad:..I hate playing in Ames.
I hate playing in LA ... :oldmad
Buckeyes had 2 weeks off and came out and looked absolutely terrible ... broke in a new Freshman Qb, but that wasn't the worst part ... undiscipline play, at last count they had 10 penalties.
Freshman in the end of the game trying to play catch up, had a lot of Over throws ... Bucks lose ...

#1 Miami struggled but pulled away in the end beating North Carolina by 3 ...

Tuesday the CFP brings out thier Playoff Top 12 again ... Buckeyes should drop from #2 to about #22 (they won't) had they had thier Starting QB, it would have been a different game ...

They could lose the rest of thier games at this point.
osu1991
Pub Member / Supporter
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
:mad::mad::mad::mad:

Pissed off at the crappy healthcare costs

My health Insurance renewal for 2027 just came in. Going from $827 a month to $1,187 a month. Deductible going up a $1k to $9,350. Max out of pocket also going up $1k to $11,000. Doctor co-pay of $40. Urgent Care co-pay $50. ER 50% coinsurance after deductible. That's all in network. Out of network is double, should it be needed.

Have to think about this. I'm really tempted to just go without now. I only go to the doctor once or twice a year. I pay out of pocket for Tirzepitide and can do without the Rosuvastatin (crestor) now. Really tired of spending over $10k a year and getting nothing out of it.

After years with Blue Cross I switched last year to Ambetter as my Blue Cross premium was going from $1200 to $1800 for a Silver plan and the Bronze plan was still going to be $1300 at BCBS. Ambetter was $827 for the same coverage with a Bronze plan. Didn't think it would jump this much so soon.

I'm guessing a Silver plan is probably over $2,000 a month for 2027.
21 Replies · 301 views
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vazhog
that cut is only for illegals to get off the rolls and I was being sarcastic before -
harshness
that cut is only for illegals to get off the rolls and I was being sarcastic before -
That's not who it is for. The cut is for those who won't work (though you typically had to prove that you couldn't work to get it in the first place).
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Foxbat
Why isn't this Political thread over in the Pit? This is why there is a Pit, and why I rarely use the Chit Chat Club. But someone said, "The Pub is Elitist since you have to pay dues to enter, so please post in the Chit Chat forum so more guests can read and participate."
osu1991
Why isn't this Political thread over in the Pit? This is why there is a Pit, and why I rarely use the Chit Chat Club. But someone said, "The Pub is Elitist since you have to pay dues to enter, so please post in the Chit Chat forum so more guests can read and participate."
I didn't start it as a political statement and have no interest in the political BS of this country. Everyone wants to make everything political nowadays. This was just my rant over the outrageous increase in my premiums and how unaffordable healthcare is becoming to the average person here.

admin can close or delete it if they don't want here.
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Bobby
Why isn't this Political thread over in the Pit? This is why there is a Pit, and why I rarely use the Chit Chat Club. But someone said, "The Pub is Elitist since you have to pay dues to enter, so please post in the Chit Chat forum so more guests can read and participate."
There are no dues to be paid to be in the Pit. You just have to use the password which is clearly shown when you try to log in to it.
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dishstaller
Everyone wants to make everything political nowadays.

Yes.....they do. Which is why I am very careful when at a customer's house these days....you NEVER know what is going to set someone off. Polite dialog is a thing of the past.....which is why I like my dog so much :)
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dishdude
That's not who it is for. The cut is for those who won't work (though you typically had to prove that you couldn't work to get it in the first place).

Which makes zero sense. If they are healthy and able to work but won't, they aren't using any health resources up.
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navychop
Until a runaway pickle truck hits them.
dishdude
Until a runaway pickle truck hits them.

I'm sure Vlasic has good insurance!
Scott Greczkowski
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge
Last reply · posted in SiriusXM Satellite Radio
Some of the channels start next week.

4 Replies · 203 views
comfortably_numb
My favorite is probably Holiday Pops.
TRG
TRG
It's not even Halloween yet.
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Scott Greczkowski
I like the Jimmy Fallon channel. This will be its third year. I like that it's all fresh each year. Also fun when he pops on live from time to time.
Don in CT
My favorite is probably Holiday Pops.
So it's a drunk father telling his in-laws to leave.
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dishstaller
Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in DISH Network Support Forum
I figured some of the guys would be looking here for an answer. You'll need to use this link

I'll mention what happened over there. I don't want to cause Scott any issues or put him in a bad spot.
7 Replies · 291 views
dishstaller
If any of you know some of the guys from the board and you have their contact info, please reach out to them....many failed to update their contact info and some even had starband email addresses.
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Scott Greczkowski
I figured some of the guys would be looking here for an answer. You'll need to use this link

I'll mention what happened over there. I don't want to cause Scott any issues or put him in a bad spot.
Now I have to go check out what happened now. Lol!
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Scott Greczkowski
Went and looked, not too bad...

Just let people know the address is satelliteretailer.com as DishRetailer.COM is not working. :)
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(((Garyd)))
If any of you know some of the guys from the board and you have their contact info, please reach out to them....many failed to update their contact info and some even had starband email addresses.
Your old link triggered my Bitdefender today.
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(((Garyd)))
Now I have to go check out what happened now. Lol!
I had a direct link to ]Political, thought provoking and debatable but now have to go in the main section or I get a warning on my Bitdefender
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dishstaller
Now I have to go check out what happened now. Lol!
I sent you a PM Scott. Doesn't really make any sense to me BUT....I've never claimed to be the sharpest knife in the drawer....though I just might be the most persistent. :baby
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Scott Greczkowski
I sent you a PM Scott. Doesn't really make any sense to me BUT....I've never claimed to be the sharpest knife in the drawer....though I just might be the most persistent. :baby
Its an automated bot. Explained it to you in the PM.
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osu1991
Pub Member / Supporter
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club

The number-one US state for EV growth, according to the June 22 Yardi report?
Oklahoma.


:eek


It has no ZEV mandates and "minimal" incentives, Yardi says, but also has cheap electricity, high multi-car household rates (so, for example, a non-Lightning Ford F-150 pulls their trailers), and a consumer base willing to switch.
117 Replies · 1171 views
meStevo

Never realized that Tesla is losing to BYD at manufacturing too, which IMO is Tesla's biggest accomplishment and area of innovation. Nice writeup about the state of play and how we got here though. I have no faith that we're moving any productive direction though sadly, most changes and efforts feel reactionary rather than rooted in making use of the time being bought by tariffs, with few exceptions.

So: how are the cars so cheap, and what is being cut to get there? The best public accounting comes from the Rhodium Group, which compared BYD, Geely, and Leapmotor against Tesla's Chinese operation, a fair comparison because it removes labor costs and shipping from the equation entirely. Their estimate is that BYD builds a car for about $4,700 less than Tesla builds a Model 3 in Shanghai, roughly 15 percent of the Model 3's price. The breakdown is the interesting part. Direct government grants account for about $292 per vehicle, which is 5 percent of the gap. The biggest single factor is vertical integration: BYD makes about 80 percent of its top-tier components in-house, against 37 percent for Tesla, and that eliminates roughly $2,369 per vehicle in supplier markups. Lower overhead, meaning cheaper engineering talent and administrative cost spread across enormous volume, accounts for another $1,719. And BYD pays its suppliers on 155-day terms, against Tesla's 60, which is worth about $214 per car in float. When people say the Chinese advantage is subsidies, the per-vehicle number says otherwise. When people say it is slave wages, the Tesla Shanghai comparison says otherwise too. The advantage is mostly that BYD decided, twenty years ago, to make its own batteries, its own motors, its own power electronics, and its own semiconductors, and Western automakers decided the opposite.​
harshness
If it weren't for the sky-high electricity prices...

Of course, the real scare with Winter coming is the insane cost of heating oil.
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osu1991

GM said its next-generation vehicle architecture will provide 40 times more computing power and 30 percent less wiring than before and will expand from the 2028 Cadillac Escalade IQ to its high-volume SUVs, trucks, crossovers, and fourth-generation EVs, which will be powered by lithium manganese-rich (LMR) prismatic batteries

Despite the politicization and perceived consumer pivot away from EVs in America, GM needs to remain globally competitive, so it's doubling down on its fourth generation EVs, with energy-dense, cheaper-to-manufacture LMR batteries, more efficient motors, and state-of-the-art centralized computing architecture. With a stated goal of cutting the traditional four- to five-year concept-to-production time in half, GM is clearly challenging the concept of "China speed," which in the Chinese automotive industry can be as quick as 18 months from design to start of production. In the AI space, GM is smartly collapsing all of its marque-specific apps under the familiar OnStar brand, while providing more features—both on the phone and in the car—than it ever has before.
harshness
Let's tell it like it is. GM's EV efforts are coming from SAIC. The brain trust is almost entirely in China, and GM is hanging off of SAIC's shirt tails.

It is a lot like asserting that the Corvette was designed by Chevrolet when most of it came from the Cadillac CTS-V.
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T

Never realized that Tesla is losing to BYD at manufacturing too, which IMO is Tesla's biggest accomplishment and area of innovation. Nice writeup about the state of play and how we got here though. I have no faith that we're moving any productive direction though sadly, most changes and efforts feel reactionary rather than rooted in making use of the time being bought by tariffs, with few exceptions.

So: how are the cars so cheap, and what is being cut to get there? The best public accounting comes from the Rhodium Group, which compared BYD, Geely, and Leapmotor against Tesla's Chinese operation, a fair comparison because it removes labor costs and shipping from the equation entirely. Their estimate is that BYD builds a car for about $4,700 less than Tesla builds a Model 3 in Shanghai, roughly 15 percent of the Model 3's price. The breakdown is the interesting part. Direct government grants account for about $292 per vehicle, which is 5 percent of the gap. The biggest single factor is vertical integration: BYD makes about 80 percent of its top-tier components in-house, against 37 percent for Tesla, and that eliminates roughly $2,369 per vehicle in supplier markups. Lower overhead, meaning cheaper engineering talent and administrative cost spread across enormous volume, accounts for another $1,719. And BYD pays its suppliers on 155-day terms, against Tesla's 60, which is worth about $214 per car in float. When people say the Chinese advantage is subsidies, the per-vehicle number says otherwise. When people say it is slave wages, the Tesla Shanghai comparison says otherwise too. The advantage is mostly that BYD decided, twenty years ago, to make its own batteries, its own motors, its own power electronics, and its own semiconductors, and Western automakers decided the opposite.​
That's how Ford did it- vertical integration. He even set up a rubber plantation in S. America
TWiT Tech Podcast Network
· posted in TWiT Tech Podcast Network
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