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jtiner
Last reply · posted in DISH Network Support Forum
I'm looking for help with a really odd signal problem. I've got a one and a half year old Eastern arc 1.4 installation with a single 722k receiver and have been experiencing increasingly frequent "signal loss" messages. The message will intermittently occur when powering up or changing channels. Moving up one channel and then back down resolves the problem. Likewise, if flipping to a channel results in a "signal loss" message, flipping up/down a channel resolves the problem.
When I've encountered the error message, I've performed some quick signal checks and found the same signal levels I've had all along (between 50-60 on 72/61.5) with all three sats and even/odd transponders showing up as O.K. I've run "check switch" perhaps ten times with no errors. I've also performed several cold power starts on the 722K, and I've checked and tightened the connections at the LNB, grounding block, diplexer, and receiver.The problem is occuring with increasing frequency, and I'm starting to lose recordings (they're marked as being lost due to no signal).
The system has been trouble free until just a few months back; there's no weather/wind/temperature/obstruction correlation to the apparent signal loss, and as I said, it's always resolved with a channel flip.
I'd welcome suggestions on where to look in the diagnostics/history for more helpful information (LNB drift, etc.).
The setup is two straight 60' runs of high quality 3 Ghz. RG-6 from two ports on the LNB directly to the house to a dual grounding block, then one 20' length of the same type of RG-6 to the diplexer at the receiver. It's a 722k on a small UPS with no OTA module. The problem seems to occur most frequently when moving between Food TV, HGTV, and TBS on 72 (that's our most consistent viewing/recording pattern......).
24 Replies · 7370 views
jtiner
Well, I checked again last nght, and definitely have the most trouble when switching to TBS or HGTV; all other channels seem fine. The LNB drift indicator gave some hex values that didn't mean anything to me except for the negative exponent value (like bit error rate). The reading was 0X1C, 0XA2, and 72(e-13). Thoughts?
hdflsts2002
Well, I checked again last nght, and definitely have the most trouble when switching to TBS or HGTV; all other channels seem fine. The LNB drift indicator gave some hex values that didn't mean anything to me except for the negative exponent value (like bit error rate). The reading was 0X1C, 0XA2, and 72(e-13). Thoughts?

The part between () is what you need to be looking at. The e indicates the value from an even transponder and if there were an o it would be an odd transponder. A drift of -13 way beyond spec!!!! As the other poster said call dish or contact a DIRT member here. That situation is not going to improve, it's only going to get worse. I have seen docs where techs are to replace an LNB with a drift value of greater than -/+5 I have also seen one where it says less than 6 no action necessary, 6-8 replace if there is an issue reported and 9 or above is a required replacement unless the value is above 12 and no problems are being exhibited. You are at 13 and you are seeing problems. I'm actually surprised you're not seeing more issues. Even at values lower than 5 you can see issues and if you have Home protection report the issue and have a tech out. I know previously I had similar issues on a 722K my drift was showing as -3 yet when I put my birdog on the line the value was much higher than that. Tech showed up his supperbuddy showed the same thing. LNB replaced and no issues since.
jtiner
The part between () is what you need to be looking at. The e indicates the value from an even transponder and if there were an o it would be an odd transponder. A drift of -13 way beyond spec!!!! As the other poster said call dish or contact a DIRT member here. That situation is not going to improve, it's only going to get worse. I have seen docs where techs are to replace an LNB with a drift value of greater than -/+5 I have also seen one where it says less than 6 no action necessary, 6-8 replace if there is an issue reported and 9 or above is a required replacement unless the value is above 12 and no problems are being exhibited. You are at 13 and you are seeing problems. I'm actually surprised you're not seeing more issues. Even at values lower than 5 you can see issues and if you have Home protection report the issue and have a tech out. I know previously I had similar issues on a 722K my drift was showing as -3 yet when I put my birdog on the line the value was much higher than that. Tech showed up his supperbuddy showed the same thing. LNB replaced and no issues since.

Oh..... I thought the -13 was a negative exponent value; that's how bit error rate was always designated for T1/T3 circuits and such. So it looks like it is time for a new LNB. Thanks for the input everyone.
hdflsts2002
Oh..... I thought the -13 was a negative exponent value; that's how bit error rate was always designated for T1/T3 circuits and such. So it looks like it is time for a new LNB. Thanks for the input everyone.

Not exactly sure why the - designation on even and + on odd but you definitely don't want to use your T-berd to troubleshoot. :D What I can tell you is that even transponders use lefthand circular polarity at 18 volts and Odd is left hand circular at 13 volts. Still learning all the ins and outs of Sat, but dang it's nice to meet another pcm/tdm person. Pretty much these days, the only thing Quasi Random around here are my thoughts. :D
jtiner
/SNIP/ you definitely don't want to use your T-berd to troubleshoot. :D

You nailed it.... the T1 and T3 (305?) T-berd was what popped into my head. I used to maintain three DS-3 cross connects feeding telco Rockwell 21130 multiplexers and smaller Fujitsu three channel muxes. Our T3 transport was for proprietary video, but each video T3 had four T1 channels carved out for data. All the T-berds are still in good working condition (even though the network is long gone........).
jtiner
So I replaced my LNB, and at the same time removed the triplexer from the system so that I have two coax runs from ports 1 and 2 on the LNB to inputs 1 and 2 on the receiver. I performed a check switch, checked signal strength, checked system status (it still reported the exact same LNB drift value of -13), then I let the system go for a couple of days.
The system status changed from "check LNB details" to a different warning to check details, and the report was of signal loss with (multiple reports for time blocks throughout the day for both tuner inputs). The next day the "check LNB" warning was back, with the same value of -13 and a long list of signal losses on both tuners. So far however, I have not witnessed the original problem of encountering the "signal loss" screen when flipping between channels.
I'd really like to know if the LNB drift value and/or the list of signal losses can be trusted. I'm trying to reconcile all of the symptoms with some receiver problem or cable problem (like water infiltration) that's responsible for the odd symptoms. I'm guessing it's highly unlikely I'd have two LNB failures that resulted in exactly the same error message (hex values and 72 e -13). Has anyone had a similar experience?
jtiner
Just wanted to update this thread since it's referenced in another post.....
I continued to see the LNB drift warning and incrementing count of signal losses, and I lost several recordings due to signal loss.
My final troubleshooting step was to run a new temporary piece of coaxial cable from port 1 on the new LNB to the 722k. I just wanted to rule out water infiltration or other cable damage in my buried conduit. I reset the receiver, then ran a check switch and a new "system info" test. I came up with the same LNB drift value, and had reported signal losses overnight.
I've pretty much resigned myself to the fact that this is (unfortunately) a problem with the reciever itself, but of course I don't have another 722k handy or any other instrumentation that would let me directly measure the LNB output.
M
Early on in the thread you were asked if you had OTA (an MT2 module for receiving locals from an antenna). That can also cause the symptoms you are seeing even though you may not be using it at the time. Do you have OTA?
jtiner
Early on in the thread you were asked if you had OTA (an MT2 module for receiving locals from an antenna). That can also cause the symptoms you are seeing even though you may not be using it at the time. Do you have OTA?
No, no OTA module. To eliminate as many variables as possible, I now have the coax runs from ports 1 and 2 on the 1000.4 LNB going to the receiver inputs 1 and 2 (triplexer removed). Each of the runs are ~65' from the LNB to the ground block, then another
~20' to the receiver (no wall plates). I can't say with certainty, but the problem seems less frequent since removing the triplexer but the problem and LNB drift/lost signal counts remain the same.
Scott Greczkowski
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne


Get it?


An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....
68605 Replies · 2677748 views
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sdfntx
Gondoliers, Shakespeares, Overseers, Playboys and Bums - Norman Greenbaum
Bobby
I Wish I Was Eighteen Again - George Burns
harshness
I Wish - Stevie Wonder
EatMyVolts
Lonesome Road -- The Wonder Who?
long_time_Dish
Lonesome Loser - Little River Band
dishstaller
Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
Love this guy's channel. Looks like Walmart has thrown in the towel when it comes to conventional car batteries.

I bought a new AGM battery from Walmart about a year ago, it is already needing replacing. I thought about just buying a regular battery but from what I've read, that might not be a smart move. Might check my Forscan program and see if I can change the battery type from AGM.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=awe7kY5nvdU
15 Replies · 115 views
harshness
When you need a battery, you need a battery.

If you can wait, new technologies are on the not-too-distant horizon.

You're probably doing something wrong if you're only getting a year out of an AGM battery. Heat and infrequent charging both significantly reduce lifetime.
Jimbo
The guy in the Video, REALLY needs to TAKE a Breath ...
If he'd Slow down, you could figure out What he's testing and on what. :(
harshness
If he'd Slow down, you could figure out What he's testing and on what.
You can't view his videos passively.

I appreciate this approach to videos that take an hour to deliver a fraction of the same data.

Now, if YouTube were required to flag the AI "reviews", that would really be something.
dishstaller
You're probably doing something wrong if you're only getting a year out of an AGM battery. Heat and infrequent charging both significantly reduce lifetime.
Huh? How can I be doing something wrong.....I took out the original battery, that was 6 yrs old and put in a new one.....kinda hard to screw that up. I figure it was just a bad battery....it happens.


The biggest takeaway I got from this video was the Walmart batteries only had something like 85% of battery life left even though they were brand NEW. The ones from O'Reilly all tested 100% of life left.
Jimbo
Huh? How can I be doing something wrong.....I took out the original battery, that was 6 yrs old and put in a new one.....kinda hard to screw that up. I figure it was just a bad battery....it happens.


The biggest takeaway I got from this video was the Walmart batteries only had something like 85% of battery life left even though they were brand NEW. The ones from O'Reilly all tested 100% of life left.
And the Walmart ones mostly had very little warranty.

My last AGM (using now) I got from O Rielly's, its the Super Start ... I got the Platnium, they had several to choose from.
TRG
TRG
Huh? How can I be doing something wrong.....I took out the original battery, that was 6 yrs old and put in a new one.....kinda hard to screw that up. I figure it was just a bad battery....it happens.


The biggest takeaway I got from this video was the Walmart batteries only had something like 85% of battery life left even though they were brand NEW. The ones from O'Reilly all tested 100% of life left.
I've been buying my batteries from AutoZone. I avoid Walmart whenever possible.
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dishstaller
I appreciate this approach to videos that take an hour to deliver a fraction of the same data.
That's the way I feel about it.
I hate those videos where they show themselves slowly opening up the box and unwrapping it.
His videos are probably the fastest pace test videos on Youtube.
T
He sounds like he's trying to sell me a pocket hose.

I just had to replace a car battery this week and thought I'd look into LiFePo4. Amazon has plenty of them, but all have top posts and only one 'also' has side connections (Group 75).Then I read that they're really lousy in the cold. So, an AGM, but again, almost nothing with side terminals instead of top. In researching that, I read that most mfrs in recent years have dropped side terminals and gone back to the old top posts, which is surprising to me since those are more corrosion-prone, cause the battery to need more space and are generally more hazardous. Finally I just threw up my hands and bought a regular lead-acid at Sam's Club. They had a Group 75 "Duracell" with side terminals only. It was virtually the only such battery with side posts on their shelves
arlo
Had a Die Hard in my folks cellar for over 6 years. Pulled it out, slapped it on a charger for a day. Put it in my 'Cuda and drove it around for a week of my vacation. Next year, the same. But my dad kept it topped off for me.It was a mid 80's battery in early 1990.

Flooded acid batteries like a float voltage of around 13.5-13.8 voltage.
AGM needs a float of 14.2 volts. So if you slap an AGM in where a flooded was. It never gets a full charge.
"Why do they die so fast?" Question answered. There are folks who sell voltage regulators for alternators that are designed to boost float voltage for AGM batteries.
The other way around? Flooded will gas-off a little at 14.2 volts. But seems to tolerate it pretty good.

Lithium car/bike/atv batteries. After 3 batteries in my Harley. The OEM flooded and two AGM's (before the 14.2 volt float requirement to let them live was learned). I bought a lithium for it. 4 year, no gripe warranty after having it tested by an approved store.
The thing started like Thor himself sent a bolt from the sky. Except......try to start it around freezing? Nope. Needed a heating pad.
And I usually like to park it around events in the evening with the parking light on. Looks cool like that.
We could traipse around for a few hours no worries. Hop on, fire it up, and go putt around.
Lithium? A Dakota Lithium at least. The BMS shuts it right down if it discharges below <something>.
Come back. Parking lights off. Won't start. And you know the rest. But it lasted 6 years. A lot better than 'new every two'. And the fact that powersports batteries are warranted for six, maybe nine months. Ludicrous.

I called Noco. Asked all of the right questions. Great warranty. Save some bucks ordering directly, faster service that the wally world alternative.
They addressed (or claimed over the phone) that the shut down was addressed. Sure. The BMS keeps it form being damaged. But if it is shut down because it does become low. Shut down any load (key on, parking or headlights left on) for 10-15 minutes and you get a second try to start your rig. Not a bad thing if it really works. Right?!

Exide, Interstate? Be very afraid. They ain't what they used to be. In Florida my '70 Cutlass had an Interstate (early 90') that lasted 6 years until it dropped its plates at an intersection and boiled over. In Florida, mind you. The last Interstate.....done in 2. Guys down there would suck out the acid and put water in shortly before the warranty ran out. Make it to the auto parts, get them tested. And get a new one pro rated. No more pro rating.
You can't beat an Odyssey. Napa, AC Deco (the better ones). Yup.
The mom and pop Car Quest only sells Die Hard. For a reason, the old man says. So they convinced that a Die HArd Platinum was the hot ticket for me. l will see. Stand by!

You can't cut Mr. Project Farm down. He does great tests of all sorts of things. Not sponsored and pressured to slap a little sugar on his comparisons and reviews. Compared to the Brits and Aussies with their constant overzealous and same sounding (Dave from EEVblog) rant. I like P-Farm a lot. Of course I like AvE (Boltr) too.
Reminds me to beware when wearing shorts around the garage vice.


Opinions may vary.
TRG
TRG
Pub Member / Supporter
· posted in The Chit Chat Club
I collect and play vinyl records regularly. A friend of mine told me about a record stash located inside an antique mall. So naturally I had to go go check it out.

records.webp
0 Replies · 11 views
Van
Van
Last reply · posted in What's Cooking?
Who says dinner or lunch has to be the only good meals of the day?

Honey butter grits with scrambled eggs and grilled boneless pork ribs on flakey biscuits washed down with cranberry juice.
6632 Replies · 379962 views
dfergie
Speaking of waffles, I'm going to put my mini waffle iron on stove so I'll remember to make waffles in the morning... Had some last week, been awhile.
dfergie
Dos cackleberrys over easy on top of 2 corned beef hash patties fried in skillet... Chocolate milk.
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TRG
TRG
Cold morning today, only 32 degrees. Fired up the oven and made cinnamon rolls (from a tube) and a pot of coffee.
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TRG
TRG
2 egg burrito with bacon and a side of hashbrowns. Coffee.

1645.webp
TRG
TRG
Breakfast Quesadillas. Grilled flour tortilla filled with scrambled eggs, hash browns, chopped green chile, cheddar & Jack cheese and bacon. Coffee.

q.webp
osu1991
Pub Member / Supporter
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club

The number-one US state for EV growth, according to the June 22 Yardi report?
Oklahoma.


:eek


It has no ZEV mandates and "minimal" incentives, Yardi says, but also has cheap electricity, high multi-car household rates (so, for example, a non-Lightning Ford F-150 pulls their trailers), and a consumer base willing to switch.
116 Replies · 1040 views
meStevo

Never realized that Tesla is losing to BYD at manufacturing too, which IMO is Tesla's biggest accomplishment and area of innovation. Nice writeup about the state of play and how we got here though. I have no faith that we're moving any productive direction though sadly, most changes and efforts feel reactionary rather than rooted in making use of the time being bought by tariffs, with few exceptions.

So: how are the cars so cheap, and what is being cut to get there? The best public accounting comes from the Rhodium Group, which compared BYD, Geely, and Leapmotor against Tesla's Chinese operation, a fair comparison because it removes labor costs and shipping from the equation entirely. Their estimate is that BYD builds a car for about $4,700 less than Tesla builds a Model 3 in Shanghai, roughly 15 percent of the Model 3's price. The breakdown is the interesting part. Direct government grants account for about $292 per vehicle, which is 5 percent of the gap. The biggest single factor is vertical integration: BYD makes about 80 percent of its top-tier components in-house, against 37 percent for Tesla, and that eliminates roughly $2,369 per vehicle in supplier markups. Lower overhead, meaning cheaper engineering talent and administrative cost spread across enormous volume, accounts for another $1,719. And BYD pays its suppliers on 155-day terms, against Tesla's 60, which is worth about $214 per car in float. When people say the Chinese advantage is subsidies, the per-vehicle number says otherwise. When people say it is slave wages, the Tesla Shanghai comparison says otherwise too. The advantage is mostly that BYD decided, twenty years ago, to make its own batteries, its own motors, its own power electronics, and its own semiconductors, and Western automakers decided the opposite.​
osu1991
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harshness
If it weren't for the sky-high electricity prices...

Of course, the real scare with Winter coming is the insane cost of heating oil.
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osu1991

GM said its next-generation vehicle architecture will provide 40 times more computing power and 30 percent less wiring than before and will expand from the 2028 Cadillac Escalade IQ to its high-volume SUVs, trucks, crossovers, and fourth-generation EVs, which will be powered by lithium manganese-rich (LMR) prismatic batteries

Despite the politicization and perceived consumer pivot away from EVs in America, GM needs to remain globally competitive, so it's doubling down on its fourth generation EVs, with energy-dense, cheaper-to-manufacture LMR batteries, more efficient motors, and state-of-the-art centralized computing architecture. With a stated goal of cutting the traditional four- to five-year concept-to-production time in half, GM is clearly challenging the concept of "China speed," which in the Chinese automotive industry can be as quick as 18 months from design to start of production. In the AI space, GM is smartly collapsing all of its marque-specific apps under the familiar OnStar brand, while providing more features—both on the phone and in the car—than it ever has before.
harshness
Let's tell it like it is. GM's EV efforts are coming from SAIC. The brain trust is almost entirely in China, and GM is hanging off of SAIC's shirt tails.

It is a lot like asserting that the Corvette was designed by Chevrolet when most of it came from the Cadillac CTS-V.
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T

Never realized that Tesla is losing to BYD at manufacturing too, which IMO is Tesla's biggest accomplishment and area of innovation. Nice writeup about the state of play and how we got here though. I have no faith that we're moving any productive direction though sadly, most changes and efforts feel reactionary rather than rooted in making use of the time being bought by tariffs, with few exceptions.

So: how are the cars so cheap, and what is being cut to get there? The best public accounting comes from the Rhodium Group, which compared BYD, Geely, and Leapmotor against Tesla's Chinese operation, a fair comparison because it removes labor costs and shipping from the equation entirely. Their estimate is that BYD builds a car for about $4,700 less than Tesla builds a Model 3 in Shanghai, roughly 15 percent of the Model 3's price. The breakdown is the interesting part. Direct government grants account for about $292 per vehicle, which is 5 percent of the gap. The biggest single factor is vertical integration: BYD makes about 80 percent of its top-tier components in-house, against 37 percent for Tesla, and that eliminates roughly $2,369 per vehicle in supplier markups. Lower overhead, meaning cheaper engineering talent and administrative cost spread across enormous volume, accounts for another $1,719. And BYD pays its suppliers on 155-day terms, against Tesla's 60, which is worth about $214 per car in float. When people say the Chinese advantage is subsidies, the per-vehicle number says otherwise. When people say it is slave wages, the Tesla Shanghai comparison says otherwise too. The advantage is mostly that BYD decided, twenty years ago, to make its own batteries, its own motors, its own power electronics, and its own semiconductors, and Western automakers decided the opposite.​
That's how Ford did it- vertical integration. He even set up a rubber plantation in S. America
TheForce
Supporting Founder Pub Member / Supporter
Last reply · posted in The Phone & Tablet Zone
Apple Fall Hardware Event takes place today, September 9, 2026, at 10:00 a.m. PT / 1:00 p.m. ET. It marks the debut of new CEO John Ternus and the expected reveal of Apple's first foldable phone.
129 Replies · 1402 views
TheForce
Heard a story from one of the Apple influencers on YT that the 18PM has a bug where it stops connecting to AT&T service. Doesn't affect Verizon or T-Mobile. Apple is replacing the phones. Anyone else hear of this? Defective Modem?
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harshness
Defective Modem?
It seems the phone gets locked into Sat mode. A software patch is coming to avoid that pitfall, but it comes too late for those who already fell in.

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comfortably_numb
Can't remember if I've posted this yet..


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfL5seXJyWU
Foxbat
If you ponied up for an iPhone Duo, keep it away from anything other than your soft, fleshy fingertips. No fingernails, no dust, sand, dirt, or other particulate matter. And don't bend it more than it needs to. Zack has destroyed $2,000 of Apple hardware to get those views, which should cover his expenses.
​
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comfortably_numb
No fingernails, no dust, sand, dirt, or other particulate matter

And definitely no medieval chain armor!
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harshness
medieval chain armor
Aka "mail" or "maille".
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K
Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in TV Shows
Daisy Ridley to Star in New Take on 'Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea' at Paramount+

I'm not usually a fan of remakes but the description provided in the article does intrigue me.
8 Replies · 152 views
Jimbo
Daisy Ridley to Star in New Take on 'Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea' at Paramount+

I'm not usually a fan of remakes but the description provided in the article does intrigue me.
I use to watch that with my Dad back in the (60's ?) was that the 60's ?
K
I use to watch that with my Dad back in the (60's ?) was that the 60's ?
Mid 60's. I watched it too.
TRG
TRG
I loved all the Irwin Allen productions.
R
Daisy Ridley to Star in New Take on 'Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea' at Paramount+

I'm not usually a fan of remakes but the description provided in the article does intrigue me.
When?
Foxbat
Mid 60's. I watched it too.
I had built models of the Seaview and the Flying Sub as a kid.
KAB
KAB
I loved all the Irwin Allen productions.
I thought Voyage was decent (for the first two seasons). The rest, not so much. All other shows were pretty lame, IMO. Especially Land of the Giants.
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KAB
KAB
Daisy Ridley to Star in New Take on 'Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea' at Paramount+

I'm not usually a fan of remakes but the description provided in the article does intrigue me.
Barbara Even, LOL (cast of original film from article).
harshness
I remember hiding behind the couch from the many sea monsters.
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