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Golden's are awesome. That's the only breed I've ever owned and I will continue to pay a breeder. Golden's (and many other breeds) have so many genetic health problems that you can't afford to buy from anything but a reputable breeder. They are a very common puppy mill breed, and there are very few quality bloodlines left.

I am in no way saying that one shouldn't adopt a rescue/shelter pet. But those of us who prefer a purebred need to be careful, because someone who is willing to haggle below market value on a purebred pup probably isn't telling you something.

What I don't understand is the fascination with these idiots who pay huge bucks for the so-called "designer breeds".. Puggles, goldendoodles, labradoodles, chiweenies, etc.. They are NOT recognized breeds, they are mutts. It has gotten to the point where any tool will mate a lab with a poodle in their back yard and sell the pups for a thousand dollars - because the buyers are too stupid to realize what they're buying.

I want a Cable-Card so I can use TiVo.

Is there a particular reason as to why both Dish and DirecTV don't offer them?

costanzas_wallet said:

I want a Cable-Card so I can use TiVo. Is there a particular reason as to why both Dish and DirecTV don't offer them?

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's the law that forced cable companies to make them. No such law exists for satellite providers. If these firms had their 'druthers, none of them would offer cable cards and all would force you to lease their equipment.

I wonder if AllVid will ever take foothold.

TheKrell said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's the law that forced cable companies to make them. No such law exists for satellite providers. If these firms had their 'druthers, none of them would offer cable cards and all would force you to lease their equipment.

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Not sure .. But I'd be fine with a cable card lease fee.

We shop at Kroger. Kroger generally beats Walmart here on most things.

JerseyMatt said:

Golden's are awesome.

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Yeah, they are really incredible dogs. I couldn't imagine getting anything else. Even when I searched for months and it seemed pretty apparent I wasn't going to be able to find one I could afford a few years ago and I started looking at other breeds or mixed breed dogs, I could never pull the trigger on it.

I won't say they're for absolutely everyone. I have a friend who says he doesn't like "needy" dogs that are "in your face" and prefers aloof indifferent temperaments and calmness, so he's clearly not a golden retriever person. But if people want a friendly outgoing super affection super playful dog with silk soft fur that loves humans and is big enough to play with without being too big to handle, they're perfect. Most of them will make you their friend and engage you constantly wanting to play or be petted, etc.. They are very smart and have very strong personalities, and despite being pretty hyperactive, have a deeper more human look to their eyes, not a wild eyed manic animal type thing- except when peanut butter is involved. One could say they are a little bit similar to Labradors in terms of a superficial description of their appearance and some personality traits, but they are about 100x better in practice (In my subjective view- no offense, Labrador fans, labs probably my second favorite breed, albeit a distant second).

But those of us who prefer a purebred need to be careful, because someone who is willing to haggle below market value on a purebred pup probably isn't telling you something.

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I had that concern, too, but I met my dog's parents (the actual dogs, not "adoptive human parents") and siblings, saw the parents' papers, etc.. And I knew all I could afford at market value was like a pit bull mix (Though I did get offered a free five year old beagle, a free 6 month old Labrador, and a under $100 adult golden-Aussie mix. The last one was tempting, but he lived on a huge farm where he had free roam and I live in an apartment, I didn't think he'd be happy here, and I did really want a puppy). My dog is almost three now, and he has been a wonderful companion. Actually a little bit of an alpha by golden standards, but you get some individual variation in personality with any puppy, and I've grown to appreciate that about him. I have all his puppy pictures and stuff saved. Just for me personally, it was a great (albeit difficult) experience raising a puppy again, and it's a great experience having an adult golden. I'm pretty much a curmudgeon about everything, but I love these dogs.

He was a very, very small fraction of market face (Though still expensive for a poor person- I borrowed the money from people I knew and paid it back over the course of almost a year). The breeder I got him from actually turned me down and we ended the phone call with the understanding that we wouldn't be able to do a deal, but they called back the next day and met my price (I was sure to tell them the first time I'd keep looking, but they could call me if they reconsidered and I'd be interested if I hadn't found a dog yet). So far through three years, his worst health issue chronic health issue is allergies and he has had one bacterial infection. He used to get diarrhea about once a month for a few months, but it cleared up years ago.

The breed is very prone to cancer (40% die of it or some ridiculously high number), but there's no scientific evidence yet that selective breeding has been able to reduce the risk of that (So one is not getting a provably lower cancer risk by paying more), and he hasn't shown any signs of that. One thing that the breed is prone to that can be reduced through screenings and careful selective breeding is hip displasia. I would have liked to have gotten a dog with certified clearances for that going back going several generations, but I'd also like a nice house in the suburbs, and both are about as likely as pigs flying over hell while it's frozen over (The money just isn't there. Just finding an eight week old golden puppy I could afford in general a few years ago was in the realm of "minor miracle" in terms of likelihood). And I the numbers on just how much the risk of hip displasia can be reduced are not as dramatic as they might be (Though significant). One would certainly want to check for those certifications if one is paying market value, because some offer them and some don't. But at the price I paid, I was incredibly lucky to get a real genuine golden retriever puppy at the right age and couldn't ask for much more (Though I did make some inquiries about his family history and such).

What I don't understand is the fascination with these idiots who pay huge bucks for the so-called "designer breeds".. Puggles, goldendoodles, labradoodles, chiweenies, etc.. They are NOT recognized breeds, they are mutts. It has gotten to the point where any tool will mate a lab with a poodle in their back yard and sell the pups for a thousand dollars - because the buyers are too stupid to realize what they're buying.

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broeddog said:

I had two golden retrievers and they were great dogs, one lived until she was 12 1/2 and the other was eight when we had to put her down due to cancer. Here's where we differ, I now have two goldendoodle's and one is eight and the other is 3 1/2, neither one did I pay thousands of dollars for. Both of my doodles are better dogs than my golden's were, better temperaments, better with young kids and both are smart as whips. Quibbling about people being stupid because they don't own the same breed as you that's another story. I wonder what your dog would have said if could, would he think people were stupid for not owning golden retrievers, or would he says thanks to all dog owners for giving dogs loving homes, unconditional love and blessing us with relationships, which are full of lifelong memories. If you do your research, you will find that all dogs are mutts when it comes to bloodlines.

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I would never tell someone who loves any type of dog not to pursue getting that breed or mix of breeds or whatever. I'd also never tell anyone they had to buy from a breeder versus going to the local pound or shelter or vice-versa. I think people know what they will finding most fulfilling and should do that. They like what they like.

However, just as a technical point, goodendoodles are not actually their own breed (Might be great dogs, though. Saying they are not a breed is no a judgement on their attributes as companions to humans.). By definition they are mixed breed dogs or mutts. That doesn't mean I agree with the fellow who said people are foolish to pay the prices it takes to get them if they love them, just that he's right about them not being a breed.

I understand the point about golden retrievers being a created breed themselves historically, but they were the result of a long breeding program incorporating six different breeds of dogs in the 19th century that was done carefully and semi-scientifically to produce a stable breed with certain attributes. By stable breed, I mean after a certain point you could take almost any two golden retrievers and they'd have a litter of golden retrievers.

To this point, goldendoodles are generally first generation crosses, by which I mean one parent is a poodle and the other is a golden retriever. The attributes of the puppies thus widely vary from each other because they are all different mixes of the two breeds genes, and thus one can't with certainty whether they'll have, say, poodle fur and a golden retriever's temperament (Which is usually what people are aiming for, a golden retriever personality without the shedding and with the semi-hypoallergenic qualities of a poodle), or golden retriever fur and a poodle's temperament, what approximate size an adult version will be (The weirdest variant was a goldendoodle I once saw in a park that was much, much bigger than either breed. It must have been twice my dog's size and weight, minimum.), and so on and so forth. To make goldendoodles an actual breed, one would have to create a certain set of breed standards one was aiming for and breed goldens, poodles, and goldendoodles down multiple, probably dozens of generations, until you get dogs that all look and act alike within certain perimeters, and have a large enough gene pool to be bred solely with each other, and that produce only dogs that fit the breed criteria, for the most part (Occasionally one gets an odd mutation- sometime benign, sometimes not. The most common one in goldens is that sometimes one is born with white fur, which is outside the breed standard in the US, but that's because it is within their breed standard in the UK, where goldens originate, and thus in their family tree. But, you know, sometimes humans are born with an extra finger or webbed feet or something. That's just part of reproduction and part of what enables evolution.).

To date, I've not heard of anyone making an effort to turn the goldendoodle concept in an actual breed. They're mostly first-generation crosses, and I've heard of a few second or third generation crosses, but it's still somewhat of a grab bag in terms of what attributes they actually have and usually their parents are not both goldendoodles. Someone could go to the trouble of creating a stable breed, it just hasn't happened yet. If it did happen, they probably would choose another name just so as not to be confused with the first and second generation golden-poodle crosses the current name pertains to, because the formal breed would be a more limited in terms of the exact traits they're supposed to have, range of size, body type, fur type and color, etc..

But this is a little inside baseball. If people want a goldendoodle puppy, and are aware that their traits can't be predicted (i.e. The breeder may tell you they're going to be as friendly as a golden and as hypoallergenic as a poodle, or will grow to a certain size, but there are really no guarantees of any of that), go for it. It seems like plenty of people are really happy with them. Even with actual breeds, there is some individual variation in personality and such- my childhood purebred golden retriever and my current golden retriever are similar in some ways, and different in others. There's just even more variation in mixed breed dogs.

Some people even love getting mixed breed dogs with impossible to determine parentage (Not talking about goldendoodles here, I mean mutt mutts)- it's a sort of like a surprise grab bag, and you are likely to get a unique result, as long as you are prepared for anything from a family dog to a pit bull type and from a dog who craves affection to standoffish dog, and so on and so forth. I prefer more predictability, but people are different in terms of what appeals to them, and I kind of see why other people like what they like, even when I don't.