Social Feed

DBordello

Last reply Mar 27, 2014 · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

Joeys, Super Joeys and Ethernet

I have seen some brief mentions that a Joey will work with just an ethernet connection to the Hopper (no MoCA). Granted it was probably 15 years ago, but I have had awful experiences with ethernet over cable/powerline/phone/etc. While I am sure it is much better now. I am interested in using a nice, clean, switched, gigabit network for the Hopper / Joey communication. What is your experience? Does the Joey perform better over ethernet? Perhaps better since the network is more responsive? Perhaps worse since it is an unoptimized route? Any drawbacks (other than being unsupported)?

Now, for the Super Joeys, this question is a bit more interesting. The Super Joey could feasibly be sending two streams to the Hopper to record, and another back do display. This could lead to a good amount of MoCA traffic. Will the Super Joey function with just an ethernet connection? This is a bit more difficult to implement, since it needs the coax sat feed. However, if an integrator was removed, the Super Joey would not have access to the MoCA cloud and would have to fall back to the ethernet connection.

Anybody with a Super Joey willing to pull out their integrator and compare performance?

Thoughts?

32 Replies · 8806 views

Load Replies (32) Reply Legacy View

Miner

Mar 20, 2014

One thing that seems to get lost is that MOCA is ethernet over coax just like wifi is ethernet over radio waves, at least it is in my understanding. The ability to use cat 5 or wifi instead of the MOCA is because (thankfully) the dish software developers coded hopper to utilize whatever conduit available, instead of the MOCA only. Id bet with some rewordng, the box could "shotgun" across all three transports simultaneously for extra capacity, although its not needed.
Unless im mistaken, which is always a possibility.

Miner

charlesrshell

Mar 23, 2014

Miner said:
One thing that seems to get lost is that MOCA is ethernet over coax just like wifi is ethernet over radio waves, at least it is in my understanding. The ability to use cat 5 or wifi instead of the MOCA is because (thankfully) the dish software developers coded hopper to utilize whatever conduit available, instead of the MOCA only. Id bet with some rewordng, the box could "shotgun" across all three transports simultaneously for extra capacity, although its not needed.
Unless im mistaken, which is always a possibility.
Miner

All my Hoppers and Joey are each connected Ethernet Cat5 to my router and all are in Ethernet mode, no bridging and no wireless. Also, Hoppers and Joey are connected by coax to two Duo Nodes. Do you know what Internet/network MoCA stuff communicates to all STBs by taking the MoCA coax route and what networking things travels the Cat5 cables? And, also what exactly is coming from the Satellites? All four Hoppers are connected to the phone line. Are phone line connections just providing caller ID only and nothing else? I'm not a network geek so can you please explain in layman's term? Thanks to any help.

Miner

Mar 25, 2014

charlesrshell said:
All my Hoppers and Joey are each connected Ethernet Cat5 to my router and all are in Ethernet mode, no bridging and no wireless. Also, Hoppers and Joey are connected by coax to two Duo Nodes. Do you know what Internet/network MoCA stuff communicates to all STBs by taking the MoCA coax route and what networking things travels the Cat5 cables? And, also what exactly is coming from the Satellites? All four Hoppers are connected to the phone line. Are phone line connections just providing caller ID only and nothing else? I'm not a network geek so can you please explain in layman's term? Thanks to any help.

I may have to break this into more than one response. Hoppers recieve 3 satellite signals from the node via the coax cable, where the 3 signals are split and decoded into the 3 watchable channels. The Hopper is able to send 1 channel to each joey over the "ethernet" and when the joey is connected via coax to the node, MOCA thru the same coax feeding the satellite signal. The node is part diplexor, part stacker where the satellite signal is split from MOCA, very similar to how OTA (or backfeedi g) on VIP works. The phone connection only carries phone info for caller ID and nothing else.

charlesrshell

Mar 26, 2014

Miner said:
I may have to break this into more than one response. Hoppers recieve 3 satellite signals from the node via the coax cable, where the 3 signals are split and decoded into the 3 watchable channels. The Hopper is able to send 1 channel to each joey over the "ethernet" and when the joey is connected via coax to the node, MOCA thru the same coax feeding the satellite signal. The node is part diplexor, part stacker where the satellite signal is split from MOCA, very similar to how OTA (or backfeedi g) on VIP works. The phone connection only carries phone info for caller ID and nothing else.

Thanks Miner, but if all Hoppers and Joey are connected by Cat5 to the router and also by coax to the Nodes, do you know what Internet/network stuff communicates to the Hoppers and Joey by taking the coax route and what networking things travels the Cat5 cables? Hoppers and Joey are in Ethernet mode.

JM42

Mar 26, 2014

Avoiding the term "Ethernet" altogether, because cat5/wireless/moca can all be ethernet at some level.

The only thing that traverses over the cat5/wireless connection by default is communication to/from the internet - internet sourced VOD data, "call home" data communications with dish, app data like Facebook/Pandora/Weather Channel app/music channel album art/etc - and the "second screen" apps like DishAnywhere and Dish Explorer. All in all it's really a trivial amount of data.

All video from Hopper to Joey/SJ to Hopper/Hopper to Hopper will traverse the coax/moca connection if available, Dish doesn't want the core video functions to be dependent on non-Dish hardware like a router of unknown quality.

The satellites provide all data needed for core functionality - live programming/guide data/channel logos/tile images/etc. Data coming from the satellites travels the coax, but at different frequencies than moca and does not impact moca bandwidth.

For an internet connected system, the phone line is used for caller-id and not much else. If not internet connected, then the nightly "call home" from the STB to Dish goes over the phone line.

The net result is all the extra connectivity doesn't really gain you any extra capability - by default.

As we know, Dish did not hard code a moca only restriction into Hopper/Joey. If moca is not available, the components will find each other and communicate over the cat5/wireless connections. It would therefor be possible to gain bandwidth by not connecting a device via coax and forcing the data to ride over cat5/wireless. The best example is the user who disconnected the SJ integrator from the node and forced all SJ communication to go over cat5, in effect eliminating all the extra bandwidth required by the SJ from the moca link.

But cat5/wireless is not supported for video, there is at least one feature that does not work correctly over cat5/wireless, and there could be more. The one I know of is the DVR drop down on a cat5 Joey only sees the linked Hopper in a dual Hopper system. It's a nuisance issue, since the Joey can still link to either Hopper, but it shows not all the "plumbing" may be aware of the dual connectivity capability.

charlesrshell

Mar 26, 2014

JM42 said:
Avoiding the term "Ethernet" altogether, because cat5/wireless/moca can all be ethernet at some level.

The only thing that traverses over the cat5/wireless connection by default is communication to/from the internet - internet sourced VOD data, "call home" data communications with dish, app data like Facebook/Pandora/Weather Channel app/music channel album art/etc - and the "second screen" apps like DishAnywhere and Dish Explorer. All in all it's really a trivial amount of data.

All video from Hopper to Joey/SJ to Hopper/Hopper to Hopper will traverse the coax/moca connection if available, Dish doesn't want the core video functions to be dependent on non-Dish hardware like a router of unknown quality.

The satellites provide all data needed for core functionality - live programming/guide data/channel logos/tile images/etc. Data coming from the satellites travels the coax, but at different frequencies than moca and does not impact moca bandwidth.

For an internet connected system, the phone line is used for caller-id and not much else. If not internet connected, then the nightly "call home" from the STB to Dish goes over the phone line.

The net result is all the extra connectivity doesn't really gain you any extra capability - by default.

As we know, Dish did not hard code a moca only restriction into Hopper/Joey. If moca is not available, the components will find each other and communicate over the cat5/wireless connections. It would therefor be possible to gain bandwidth by not connecting a device via coax and forcing the data to ride over cat5/wireless. The best example is the user who disconnected the SJ integrator from the node and forced all SJ communication to go over cat5, in effect eliminating all the extra bandwidth required by the SJ from the moca link.

But cat5/wireless is not supported for video, there is at least one feature that does not work correctly over cat5/wireless, and there could be more. The one I know of is the DVR drop down on a cat5 Joey only sees the linked Hopper in a dual Hopper system. It's a nuisance issue, since the Joey can still link to either Hopper, but it shows not all the "plumbing" may be aware of the dual connectivity capability.

Thanks JM42 for taking the time to reply. I understand it better now. It appears to me it is best to connect both ways, coax and Cat5 or wireless. And, leave the trusty phone line connected too. LOL

foghorn2

Mar 26, 2014

The video streams from the Ethernet connection could be turned off in firmware anytime now. Once wireless joeys are available, that could be a possibility.
If one was able to use a Super Joey with two hoppers and all ran fine because extra bandwidth was supplied by Ethernet, then one would experience major issues once the Ethernet capability was cut off.

Miner

Mar 27, 2014

charlesrshell said:
Thanks JM42 for taking the time to reply. I understand it better now. It appears to me it is best to connect both ways, coax and Cat5 or wireless. And, leave the trusty phone line connected too. LOL

JM42 certainly explained better than I was able. I spend most of my Sat guys time trying to get my 2 year old down for bed, typing on my kindle fire tablet isn't the most productive.
Many years ago Dish experimented with their box to box connection so only 1 box connected to a phone line shared the uplink, caller ID and perhaps other info, IIRC. It never seemed to work with my 2 622s. Or at least it didn't work very well. I wonder if that functionality would at least eliminate having 5 phone lines being connected for caller ID. amazing how things have changed in <10 years.

Posted Via The FREE SatelliteGuys Reader App!

View all replies (32)

meStevo

Lifetime Supporter

Last reply 28 minutes ago · posted in The Sports Section

NFL 2026-2027 Season

Schedule drops tomorrow. Mandatory mini camps in June. Hall of Fame game August 6th.

117 Replies · 1862 views

Load Replies (117) Reply Legacy View

Reactions: Jimbo and dfergie

Foxbat

Yesterday at 6:19 PM

I guess even the patience of us laid-back Hoosiers has its limits:

Colts relieve general manager Chris Ballard of his duties

Colts Owner & CEO Carlie Irsay-Gordon released a statement Monday announcing the news.

www.colts.com

Reactions: Mike0616 and rvvaquero

rvvaquero

Yesterday at 9:00 PM

Foxbat said:
I guess even the patience of us laid-back Hoosiers has its limits:

Colts relieve general manager Chris Ballard of his duties

Colts Owner & CEO Carlie Irsay-Gordon released a statement Monday announcing the news.

www.colts.com

Be nice to see a Cowboy headline like that.

Reactions: dfergie, Mike0616 and osu1991

Mike0616

Yesterday at 9:35 PM

Foxbat said:
I guess even the patience of us laid-back Hoosiers has its limits:

Colts relieve general manager Chris Ballard of his duties

Colts Owner & CEO Carlie Irsay-Gordon released a statement Monday announcing the news.

www.colts.com

Can we expect to see a new coach if we say "pretty please?"

Reactions: Foxbat

Foxbat

Yesterday at 11:25 PM

Jeeez, Week 6, no lead is safe…

Reactions: Mike0616

b4pjoe

28 minutes ago

rvvaquero said:
Be nice to see a Cowboy headline like that.

Yes the Cowboys owner needs to fire the general manager (himself), co-owner, Chief Operating Officer (COO), Executive Vice President, Director of Player Personnel, and President of AT&T Stadium (his son) and then he should jump off of a cliff. Only then can they recover.

Reactions: Mike0616

View all replies (117)

Scott Greczkowski

Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge

Last reply 52 minutes ago · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Song Name Game Part 3!

Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne

Get it?

An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....

68540 Replies · 2673818 views

Load Replies (68540) Reply Legacy View

Reactions: c-spand

dishstaller

Yesterday at 10:11 PM

Little Wing - Jimi Hendrix

Reactions: ClarkGable

long_time_Dish

Today at 12:54 AM

With A Little Luck - Wings

Reactions: ClarkGable

hwkn

Today at 2:44 AM

LITTLE Willy-Sweet

Reactions: ClarkGable

ClarkGable

Today at 5:59 AM

Little Deuce Coupe - The Beach Boys

Reactions: gms49ers

gms49ers

52 minutes ago

The Boys of Summer - Don Henley

View all replies (68540)

Therm

Last reply Today at 8:46 AM · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

Am I the only one that hates what Dish did to their mobile app?

I thought I would come here and find lots of complaints about the update to the dish anywhere mobile app, but am not seeing any. It used to look just like the desktop webpage. Now you can no longer filter by sports channels or movie channels. Plus that they made it look like a big button telephone and you see fewer channels in the screen which requires more scrolling. Yes I realize you can look at sports then select which sport you want to look at, I just liked being able to see all sporting events in the guide with all other channels being filtered out. Am I alone in the wilderness on this?

8 Replies · 280 views

Load Replies (8) Reply Legacy View

Reactions: dishstaller

dishdude

Friday at 2:51 PM

I like the new look, it's a lot cleaner. I'm using it on one of those Onn streaming devices when I travel.

Reactions: charlesrshell

Therm

Friday at 3:39 PM

dishdude said:
I like the new look, it's a lot cleaner. I'm using it on one of those Onn streaming devices when I travel.

Yes a lot cleaner, glossier, and less functional. Someone trying to justify why they are making a big salary. "See look shiny"

Reactions: charlesrshell

navychop

Friday at 3:53 PM

"Big salary." Charlie. "?Big?"

Reactions: charlesrshell and dishdude

Tampa8

Friday at 4:01 PM

Seems in some ways better. Nicer layout, as others said maybe cleaner. Moving ahead in the guide is better.

Reactions: KAB and charlesrshell

scoob83

Today at 8:46 AM

Therm said:
I thought I would come here and find lots of complaints about the update to the dish anywhere mobile app, but am not seeing any. It used to look just like the desktop webpage. Now you can no longer filter by sports channels or movie channels. Plus that they made it look like a big button telephone and you see fewer channels in the screen which requires more scrolling. Yes I realize you can look at sports then select which sport you want to look at, I just liked being able to see all sporting events in the guide with all other channels being filtered out. Am I alone in the wilderness on this?

I think most are using it on a firestick or other device as an extra receiver, rather than their phone. Just a guess based on how I use it. 99% thru my firestick, 1% phone.

Reactions: llokey

View all replies (8)

dfergie

Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU!

Last reply Today at 7:35 AM · posted in TV Shows

Stargate SG-1 Discussion

Stargate SG-1 cancelled, Atlantis renewed

Monday - August 21, 2006 | by Darren Sumner

The future of Stargate is in question today, as SCI FI Channel has cancelled the long-running Stargate SG-1, Multichannel News reported today and a GateWorld source has confirmed. The news regrettably follows the airing of the show's milestone two-hundredth episode on Friday.

Stargate Atlantis, meanwhile, has been renewed for a fourth season, with the network hoping to see that the spin-off series can stand alone, according to a source.
Source Gateworld

2034 Replies · 184182 views

Load Replies (2034) Reply Legacy View

reubenray

Yesterday at 1:30 PM

I have gotten back into watching SG-1 and I have recorded most of the episodes to binge watch. What episodes are about the Antarctic or was this a movie? Also where could I watch the SG-1 movies?

osu1991

Yesterday at 2:00 PM

Watch Stargate SG-1 for Free Online | Pluto TV

Stargate SG-1 picks up where the blockbuster film left off as the SG-1 team sets out to explore the mysteries of the Stargate and the worlds beyond it in the pulse-pounding series which became a worldwide phenomenon and a science fiction classic. Stream Stargate SG-1 for free on Pluto TV.

pluto.tv

long_time_Dish

Yesterday at 3:47 PM

reubenray said:
I have gotten back into watching SG-1 and I have recorded most of the episodes to binge watch. What episodes are about the Antarctic or was this a movie? Also where could I watch the SG-1 movies?

Well, there are a couple involving the Antarctic. "Solitudes", S1 E17 (one of my favorites), Then, "Lost City', S7 E21 and E22. Then, in the SGA pilot, "Rising", S1 E1 and E2, it starts out in the Antarctic for about the first 20 minutes or so.

Reactions: Foxbat, osu1991 and dfergie

reubenray

Yesterday at 3:54 PM

long_time_Dish said:
Well, there are a couple involving the Antarctic. "Solitudes", S1 E17 (one of my favorites), Then, "Lost City', S7 E21 and E22. Then, in the SGA pilot, "Rising", S1 E1 and E2, it starts out in the Antarctic for about the first 20 minutes or so.

Which one has O'Neil being Ancients? I am at the end of Season 8 now.

long_time_Dish

Yesterday at 8:36 PM

reubenray said:
Which one has O'Neil being Ancients? I am at the end of Season 8 now.

If I understand your question, O'Neill had the Ancient's knowledge in the "Lost City" two-part episode. That was when Anubis attacked Earth and there was a big battle over Antarctica.

Reactions: dfergie and Foxbat

reubenray

Today at 7:35 AM

long_time_Dish said:
If I understand your question, O'Neill had the Ancient's knowledge in the "Lost City" two-part episode. That was when Anubis attacked Earth and there was a big battle over Antarctica.

Those are the episodes I am looking for. They are referred to a lot in the episodes I just recently watched.

Reactions: dfergie

View all replies (2034)

TFLEV

Today at 7:22 AM · posted in TFLEV

2027 BMW iX5 Walkaround & Review // They Have To Get This One Right!

Time for another AWESOME video from TFL Electric Vehicles!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ca9w7HnuXg

Direct YouTube Link - 2027 BMW iX5 Walkaround & Review // They Have To Get This One Right!

0 Replies · 9 views

Replies Reply Legacy View

TVHabit

Last reply Today at 6:42 AM · posted in Free To Air (FTA) Discussion

Hybrid Dish setup

Picked up a sweet directv dish, mount, twin lnbs and a short cable.
Has anyone converted one to FTA? A Frankenstein of sorts...

6 Replies · 296 views

Load Replies (6) Reply Legacy View

Brct203

Oct 13, 2026

would probably also work well for NHK on 101W and possibly for PBS on 99W. I used one for a while on 30W. Just keep in mind that because it's undersized for those satellites, it might work fine in clear weather but won't have much margin to account for signal degradation during rain/snow

Reactions: TVHabit

one_db_compression

Oct 13, 2026

If you can find one, the Shaw / Star Choice 75e ellipticals are great for use on 97, 99, and 101W. They are really just rebranded ChannelMaster 75 cm reflectors and use linear LNBFs by default out of the box.

Everyone else's mileage may vary.

Reactions: TVHabit

TVHabit

Sunday at 10:12 AM

I have read that some have converted this type dish but after giving it a good look, it's the lnb conversion that is the bottleneck. Does anyone have a picture of their attempt to configure the lnb? I watched a video on youtube from the save it for parts guy and he used duct tape! Guess it worked but I'm thinking something a bit more permanent!
Thanks to all for your interest and replies...

Titanium

Sunday at 3:38 PM

Many of us have used a universal LNBF mount (or get creative with L brackets and plumbers tape - perforated metal strapping). Use a few inches of aluminum tube (or a piece of 1x2" lumber) to extend the support arm (replacing the plastic mount used by DirecTV and Dish) to place the LNBF throat opening at the correct distance from the reflector, the correct height and at the correct angle. Nothing magical... simply place the new linear LNBF in the center at the same distance, height and angle as the current combo.
www.amazon.com/Universal-Single-Bracket-Holder-FTA-US/dp/B074L85WK2

Reactions: FTA4PA

k4otl

Today at 6:42 AM

To add: 101W Ku seems to be (one of if not the) strongest for me, and if I only had Ku I definitely want 101W for the music mux, it's robust FEC and strong signal help a lot. I've thought about using a used Dish/DirectTV dish at my Dads to supplement his OTA (mainly for my benefit when I visit

)

View all replies (6)

Peter Parker

Supporting Founder Lifetime Supporter

Last reply Yesterday at 10:34 PM · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

DISH Hopper 3 Software Version 713 Is Out

No idea what improvements might be involved.

24 Replies · 1122 views

Load Replies (24) Reply Legacy View

Reactions: LQQK and reubenray

naptime

Sunday at 1:05 AM

I'm getting fabulous picture on Ch. 148 4k, but zero audio with H713. This is with a recorded show (Notre Dame game). Anyone else have this? Audio is fine on every other channel.

Reactions: charlesrshell

jsmit86

Yesterday at 9:57 AM

naptime said:
I'm getting fabulous picture on Ch. 148 4k, but zero audio with H713. This is with a recorded show (Notre Dame game). Anyone else have this? Audio is fine on every other channel.

It's a known issue.
For a temporary fix, go into the menu, Audio, and turn Dolby Audio "OFF". You will have PCM stereo audio.

I was able to give the tech ops team some data logs so they could diagnose the problem, and they rolled me back to H708 temporarily. It fixed that issue.

They let me know that they understand what caused the issue, and it will be fixed within a few weeks in a new update.

Reactions: Foxbat, Almighty1, reubenray and 3 others

long_time_Dish

Yesterday at 3:57 PM

jsmit86 said:
They let me know that they understand what caused the issue, and it will be fixed within a few weeks in a new update.

Oh, you mean "soon"? :biggrin

Reactions: Foxbat and charlesrshell

Almighty1

Yesterday at 4:07 PM

jsmit86 said:
It's a known issue.
For a temporary fix, go into the menu, Audio, and turn Dolby Audio "OFF". You will have PCM stereo audio.

I was able to give the tech ops team some data logs so they could diagnose the problem, and they rolled me back to H708 temporarily. It fixed that issue.

They let me know that they understand what caused the issue, and it will be fixed within a few weeks in a new update.

I guess they will be busy when lots of people start asking for rollbacks to H708 now that you mention that downgrades of software does exist because it will likely fix the OTA Single Tuner and the IR Remote problems in H710-H713.