ok, thanks guys, i sort of beat you all to the punch, i tried the stb on another newer (4 year old) samsung tv , and it works, now to learn how to setup the confusing menus, did get to scan one bird, lower east, maybe 24-27-30w, have to check sathint for chanels, looks like it might have scanned 2 or 3 times, slow learning curve for my 70 + year old brain, but just something to play with beforg getting a good box ( sf8008 or vuplus or os nimo or os mio, ) still trying to shake the tree on that, again thanks to all, ps does anyone have a n.a. listing for the d4s ?