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osu1991
osu1991
Pub Member / Supporter
Last reply · posted in Internet Television (IPTV) Discussion Forum

Traditional Pay-TV Operators Lost 6 Million Subscribers in 2019 as Cord-Cutting Picks Up Speed

variety.com

Traditional Pay-TV Operators Lost Record 6 Million Subscribers in 2019 as Cord-Cutting Picks Up Speed

The U.S. satellite and cable TV providers dropping a staggering 6 million customers, a 7% decline year-over-year.
variety.com variety.com

The U.S. satellite and cable TV business declined at an unprecedented rate last year — with traditional pay-TV providers dropping a staggering 6 million customers, a 7% decline year-over-year.

Pay-TV penetration hit an all-time high of 87.8% of U.S. households in 2009 — slipping over the past decade to 65.3% at the end of last year, per MoffettNathanson's estimates.
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comfortably_numb
comfortably_numb
Duh! This downward spiral will just continue until linear TV companies are all in bankruptcy.

These businesses never learn. They follow the exact same model the newspapers do- just keep charging more and more until they go out of business.

In an unsurprising twist, the Kansas City Star filed for bankruptcy last week. Who knew that customers wouldn't continue to pay $650 for a 6 month subscription to a newspaper? Instead of cutting overhead, or maybe cutting CEO's and VP's who make $23 million a year, they just kept passing the costs along to the customer until they died. Linear TV will do the same thing. Oh yeah, that "responsibility to the shareholders" thing.

If it were my business, I'd take a pay cut to keep my business solvent. Instead, these guys just keep sucking at the tit until there's nothing left. Then they just call it a day and walk away. What happened to the innovation? The competition?

Dumb, dumb, dumb.
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ncted
ncted
comfortably_numb said:
Duh! This downward spiral will just continue until linear TV companies are all in bankruptcy.

These businesses never learn. They follow the exact same model the newspapers do- just keep charging more and more until they go out of business.

In an unsurprising twist, the Kansas City Star filed for bankruptcy last week. Who knew that customers wouldn't continue to pay $650 for a 6 month subscription to a newspaper? Instead of cutting overhead, or maybe cutting CEO's and VP's who make $23 million a year, they just kept passing the costs along to the customer until they died. Linear TV will do the same thing. Oh yeah, that "responsibility to the shareholders" thing.

If it were my business, I'd take a pay cut to keep my business solvent. Instead, these guys just keep sucking at the tit until there's nothing left. Then they just call it a day and walk away. What happened to the innovation? The competition?

Dumb, dumb, dumb.
Click to expand...

McClatchy's problem isn't as simple as exec pay. A couple million a year in actual exec compensation savings wouldn't have saved them from bankruptcy. Their problem was taking on too much debt to buy KR right before the Great Recession and then letting people who haven't the first clue about the Internet determine their digital strategy. I don't want to share too much as a former employee, but I will say there was a fundamental lack of understanding of both the market for their product and how the technology actually worked.

At the time when all the big online media chains were building their own solutions, McClatchy abandoned a mature, custom online platform that gave the company everything it needed at the time plus the flexibility to add functionality as time went on. They replaced it with an old-school "enterprise" solution based on Oracle/Java/WebLogic which turned out to be very hard to develop new features on which the company desperately needed to do. Then they outsourced their technology responsibilities to the lowest bidder, which paralyzed their ability to develop what the business needed. They maybe saved around $2 million per year on the outsourcing, but it probably cost them tens of millions in lost opportunities, right when they needed them most.

It was one of the hardest decisions in my career to leave but having been through similar outsourcing situations at Nortel and GSK, I knew what was coming, and I knew there was no point in trying to make something impossible work. I couldn't have changed the outcome. The forces at work were out of my control, and it was a bankruptcy 20+ years in the making.

Now, as for how this applies to the pay TV market, it is eerily similar. How people consume content is changing, and it is going to result in casualties and collateral damage. A lot of channels are dead, but they just don't realize it yet because the people responsible for foreseeing where the business needs to go still think it is the 1990s.
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comfortably_numb
comfortably_numb
ncted said:
the people responsible for foreseeing where the business needs to go still think it is the 1990s.
Click to expand...

I'm afraid I have to include Charlie in that. He may indeed yet merge Dish with Direct, but all that does is delay the inevitable. I bet he'll sit back and watch the whole thing burn while he sucks every last bit of profit from it.

At a time when Satellite TV is under attack from streaming platforms, they should be doing everything they can to retain customers, not jacking prices every chance they get. All that does is hasten the demise.
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Wescopc
Wescopc
comfortably_numb said:
I'm afraid I have to include Charlie in that. He may indeed yet merge Dish with Direct, but all that does is delay the inevitable. I bet he'll sit back and watch the whole thing burn while he sucks every last bit of profit from it.

At a time when Satellite TV is under attack from streaming platforms, they should be doing everything they can to retain customers, not jacking prices every chance they get. All that does is hasten the demise.
Click to expand...
I think Charlie has tried more than most - but he can not control the prices the program producers are charging.
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mwdxer1
mwdxer1
comfortably_numb said:
Duh! This downward spiral will just continue until linear TV companies are all in bankruptcy.

These businesses never learn. They follow the exact same model the newspapers do- just keep charging more and more until they go out of business.

In an unsurprising twist, the Kansas City Star filed for bankruptcy last week. Who knew that customers wouldn't continue to pay $650 for a 6 month subscription to a newspaper? Instead of cutting overhead, or maybe cutting CEO's and VP's who make $23 million a year, they just kept passing the costs along to the customer until they died. Linear TV will do the same thing. Oh yeah, that "responsibility to the shareholders" thing.

If it were my business, I'd take a pay cut to keep my business solvent. Instead, these guys just keep sucking at the tit until there's nothing left. Then they just call it a day and walk away. What happened to the innovation? The competition?

Dumb, dumb, dumb.
Click to expand...

$650 for 6 months of as newspaper? Ouch! No thanks. I have not subscribed to as paper in years.
Who can afford these rates? Streaming is the future with lower prices. HBO MAX for $15 a month, too expensive for me, when I got the 3 year deal with Disney+ for $4 and some change by the month.
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comfortably_numb
comfortably_numb
mwdxer1 said:
$650 for 6 months of as newspaper? Ouch! No thanks. I have not subscribed to as paper in years.
Who can afford these rates? Streaming is the future with lower prices. HBO MAX for $15 a month, too expensive for me, when I got the 3 year deal with Disney+ for $4 and some change by the month.
Click to expand...

There are still MANY people who want the paper, but McClatchy stonewalled them. They only offered good rates to "new" subscribers and screwed over the loyal ones (sound familiar, ATT?) This strategy makes zero sense to me.
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ncted
ncted
comfortably_numb said:
There are still MANY people who want the paper, but McClatchy stonewalled them. They only offered good rates to "new" subscribers and screwed over the loyal ones (sound familiar, ATT?) This strategy makes zero sense to me.
Click to expand...

AFAIK, the cost of subscriptions is still just what it takes to print and deliver it. The problem is, with fewer and fewer subs, the price per sub goes up really fast because the costs to run the press (including depreciation) and deliver it across an unchanging or expanding geographic region don't go down. As with most things, the costs only go up. At this point, the options are to take an ever increasing loss on delivering to a shrinking number of people or continue to pass the costs on to the people who are willing to pay. At one point, we actually did an analysis, and it was cheaper to give every subscriber a Kindle DX they could use to read a digital version than it was to continue printing the paper. I'm sure it has only gotten worse.

As for Sling losing subs, that at least is just due to competition, and they know who they are competing against. With newspapers, the competition was this nebulous thing they didn't understand because the people making the decisions came to power during the good times when they had 80% profits and 95% market penetration for advertising. Worse, they weren't interested in really understanding what they were fighting, or at least not enough of people in the right positions were.
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KAB
KAB
Wescopc said:
I think Charlie has tried more than most - but he can not control the prices the program producers are charging.
Click to expand...
BINGO! And don't even think the streamers won't face the same problem.
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comfortably_numb
comfortably_numb
KAB said:
BINGO! And don't even think the streamers won't face the same problem.
Click to expand...

I've said this before, it doesn't matter if the program producers are the dark wizard behind the curtain "forcing" carriers to pass along higher costs to the consumer. Customers don't know that (and quite frankly they don't care). It's the bottom line price that is driving the exodus. So carriers either need to get smart and innovative and come up with solution(s) or just roll over and die. They need to stop blaming the boogeyman (even if the boogeyman is really to blame).
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Scott Greczkowski
Scott Greczkowski
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Song Name Game Part 3!

Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne


Get it?


An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....
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MRSFTA4PA
White Christmas - Elvis Presley
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dishstaller
dishstaller
Dirty White Boy - Foreigner
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Bobby
Bobby
Tickle Me (Dirty, Dirty Feeling) - Elvis Presley
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dishstaller
dishstaller
Dirty Diana - Michael Jackson
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sdfntx
sdfntx
Dirty Water - The Standells
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Anony55
Anony55
Last reply · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

DISH Has Made it Impossible to be a VIP211k Owner

For quite a while now, people with a VIP211k have been losing their recordings on their activated external HDDs... even when there's nothing physically wrong with HDD. I believe this is an intentional and underhanded tactic that Dish is pulling in an attempt to force users away from the VIP211k.

They are obviously regretting that they ever let users have a "non-dvr" dvr in the first place. You would think they would be happy charging you a $40 one time fee... and then be happy letting the customer be the one responsible for HDD failures.

Dish clearly hates the 211k bitter-clingers. This recording deletion problem is intentional (IMO), and I think it is just one more tool that they are using. Hopper and a 2-year agreement... that's what they want you to have. Think about that... a 2-year agreement... with a company $30 Billion in debt (that's with a B). What happens when all that debt causes them to drop the channel that may have been your whole reason for having Dish in the first place? Guess who's stuck with a service that no longer suits their needs... for the remainder of the 2-year agreement.

On top of that, they don't want you to install it yourself. I purchased and installed all my equipment myself. That used to be common. Now, they lie to me and tell me that my dish must be updated to use a Hopper. Funny thing is... they don't even know what dish I have because they didn't install it, and I didn't tell them. If you ask what type of dish/LNBs the hopper needs... good luck getting an answer. All they know is that whatever you have needs to be upgraded by an installer.

It is quite apparent to me that they care much more about staying in their box, than they do working with the customer. That's too bad, because it hasn't always been that way. It's like they are totally unaware of the current business environment that they are trying to compete in.

I have been a customer since 2010. I will be cancelling my service before the next period. Yeah, I know, my $1,200 a year won't make a difference to them. It just seems like they have forgotten who needs who, especially when you consider the competition in today's streaming world. But hey, they will have succeed in forcing me off the 211k.
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Nebugeater
Nebugeater
Got a 211k that works fine, and I no longer need it if someone wants to throw me a few bucks and pay shipping. Not tied to my account as of last week. Used with a tailgater and got a wally
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tparker
Nebugeater said:
Got a 211k that works fine, and I no longer need it if someone wants to throw me a few bucks and pay shipping. Not tied to my account as of last week. Used with a tailgater and got a wally
Click to expand...
Is the 211k still available? If so, I'm interested.
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Nebugeater
Nebugeater
tparker said:
Is the 211k still available? If so, I'm interested.
Click to expand...


Actually, it is. A couple of people PMed me when I posted this, and when I asked for an address, they never responded. Then I just sort of let it go. Send me a PM to continue the discussion
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Anony55
Anony55
Well, after nine months of being on pause, I finally figured out that I was wasting $5 a month. So I cancelled. For the first time since 2010, I no longer have a Dish account.

I do have to say that I did appreciate the account pause option. That just gives a person some time to see what the fallout of cancelling will be... without having to go all the way over the cliff first.

Since I never once had an "oh shoot, I need Dish Network for..." moment, the decision was a lot easier.

Funny enough, when I called to cancel (for real, not playing the pricing game), all of a sudden, they were offering me deals that I was told before that I couldn't get without changing out my VIP211k. Now, I could have had those specials with them just sending me a new card for the receiver. LOL!

Of course, my mind was already made up because of having not missed the service while on pause. That, and the fact that I bet the 211k still kills recordings.

All in all, I'm glad that I had Dish for all those years. I just outgrew the need, and they pressed the issue by deleting recordings. I would have eventually went this route without the deleted recordings issue. But, for sure, that did hasten the outcome.

I'll still pop in at this site from time to time. Believe it or not, I still have a C/Ku BUD that I intend on playing with again if life ever slows down.
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dishstaller
dishstaller
Nebugeater said:
Actually, it is. A couple of people PMed me when I posted this, and when I asked for an address, they never responded. Then I just sort of let it go. Send me a PM to continue the discussion
Click to expand...
Unless things have changed at Dish, which is entirely possible, they won't activate the 211, even as a replacement. I gave one to a customer a while back....which when I turned it off I made sure to tell the CSR I wanted it freed up so another customer could use it, I was assured it was.....and when they called to swap out there's they were told it couldn't be done. Now like I said, things MIGHT HAVE CHANGED.
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Anony55
Anony55
dishstaller said:
Unless things have changed at Dish, which is entirely possible, they won't activate the 211, even as a replacement. I gave one to a customer a while back....which when I turned it off I made sure to tell the CSR I wanted it freed up so another customer could use it, I was assured it was.....and when they called to swap out there's they were told it couldn't be done. Now like I said, things MIGHT HAVE CHANGED.
Click to expand...
It hasn't changed. When I cancelled my service the other day, they told me I didn't need to return the receiver (which I already knew because I purchased it).

But in addition to that, the young man told me not to sell it, but to take it to a recycling place. The reason he gave for the advice was because 211Ks can no longer be activated.

So as far as the VIP211k goes... once grandpa dies, he's dead.
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telstar_1
They tell you to trash it and not to sell simply because they're phasing them out, not particularly because someone might be "confused" into buying it and not be able to activate. They tell people that in every case where they're not acting to get a box back, either from a replacement or service cancel.
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Former member 209992
Former member 209992
Last reply · posted in SatelliteGuys Support Center

Site is slooooow

For some reason, the satelliteguys.us site is loading a lot slower than usual on both Chrome on my Asus laptop and Safari on my iPhone.
I'm also seeing longer appearances of the blue bar at the top and the "3 blue bars" loading symbol.
Is anyone else also having the same problem? Thanks in advance.
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Scott Greczkowski
Scott Greczkowski
Remember folks... just like DNS... its always Foxbat. :D
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Foxbat
Foxbat
Scott Greczkowski said:
Remember folks... just like DNS... its always Foxbat. :D
Click to expand...
WTF… …What the Foxbat!😱
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S
slow_poke_pete
Foxbat said:
WTF… …What the Foxbat!😱
Click to expand...
wow what a kick in the balls!!! the wife blames you when things don't work now scott's blaming you :biggrin
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Foxbat
Foxbat
slow_poke_pete said:
wow what a kick in the balls!!! the wife blames you when things don't work now scott's blaming you :biggrin
Click to expand...
I know. Here's what Scott has in store for me if I get out of line:
IMG_1990.webp
IMG_1989.webp
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slow_poke_pete
Foxbat said:
I know. Here's what Scott has in store for me if I get out of line:
Click to expand...
OMG to freaking funny :biggrin
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comfortably_numb
comfortably_numb
Foxbat said:
I know. Here's what Scott has in store for me if I get out of line:
Click to expand...

Not likely since that place closed down.
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Foxbat
Foxbat
comfortably_numb said:
Not likely since that place closed down.
Click to expand...
You're no fun.😑
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T
Therm
Last reply · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

Am I the only one that hates what Dish did to their mobile app?

I thought I would come here and find lots of complaints about the update to the dish anywhere mobile app, but am not seeing any. It used to look just like the desktop webpage. Now you can no longer filter by sports channels or movie channels. Plus that they made it look like a big button telephone and you see fewer channels in the screen which requires more scrolling. Yes I realize you can look at sports then select which sport you want to look at, I just liked being able to see all sporting events in the guide with all other channels being filtered out. Am I alone in the wilderness on this?
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dishstaller
dishstaller
I really dislike change for the sake of change
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dishdude
dishdude
I like the new look, it's a lot cleaner. I'm using it on one of those Onn streaming devices when I travel.
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Therm
dishdude said:
I like the new look, it's a lot cleaner. I'm using it on one of those Onn streaming devices when I travel.
Click to expand...
Yes a lot cleaner, glossier, and less functional. Someone trying to justify why they are making a big salary. "See look shiny"
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navychop
navychop
"Big salary." Charlie. "?Big?"
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Tampa8
Tampa8
Seems in some ways better. Nicer layout, as others said maybe cleaner. Moving ahead in the guide is better.
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Foxbat
Foxbat
Supporting Founder Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in Internet Television (IPTV) Discussion Forum

New Apple TV 4K released, plus other Apple Home devices.

Apple has finally released their Apple TV 4K with built-in Siri and a microphone so it can respond to your queries even if you don't have the remote. It also increases in price, to $299. I had been planning on updating my current Apple TV 4K streamers, but that's $600 for the two of them, and that's a pass at this point.

At $299, it had better come with 256 GB of Storage, Gigabit (or better) Ethernet, the latest HDMI tech and standards, and one year of free Apple One. But it probably won't…
www.apple.com

Apple TV 4K

Apple TV 4K. New Siri AI and hands-free control. Stunning picture and immersive HomePod surround sound. Works with your Apple and smart home devices.
www.apple.com
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Ronnie-
Ronnie-
Meh. The 4Ks I have will do everything that these do that I need them to do.


Which that's most tech these days for anything released the last four to five years.


It's honestly a testament to how good the previous gen Apple TVs were and are.
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navychop
navychop
Ronnie- said:
It's honestly a testament to how good the previous gen Apple TVs were and are.
Click to expand...

Don't tell them that. They'll adopt planned obsolescence.
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navychop
navychop
Outside of gaming, would Joe Sixpack notice any difference?
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KAB
KAB
navychop said:
Outside of gaming, would Joe Sixpack notice any difference?
Click to expand...
Not a bit. IMO, Apple's are slow to boot up. Time is about the same with 1st gen and 3rd. Roku runs rings around them in that department. I only reason I stuck, is the Apple infrastructure, which has it's definite advantages. But $300 is a deal breaker. Later, Apple!
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slow_poke_pete
navychop said:
Don't tell them that. They'll adopt planned obsolescence.
Click to expand...
they all do that anyways.. ever notice your cell phone slows down when you come up for an upgrade.. :what. apple's been making money off of software and not hardware for a while
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ncted
ncted
KAB said:
Not a bit. IMO, Apple's are slow to boot up. Time is about the same with 1st gen and 3rd. Roku runs rings around them in that department. I only reason I stuck, is the Apple infrastructure, which has it's definite advantages. But $300 is a deal breaker. Later, Apple!
Click to expand...
Yeah, they boot up a bit slower than Roku, but the OS does a lot more, so it makes sense. How often are you booting them up that is a differentiator? Aside from OS updates, mine are on all the time. I will say the ATV4K is generally quicker than the Roku Ultras I have, when it comes to launching apps and responsiveness, not that the Roku is sluggish.
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navychop
navychop
slow_poke_pete said:
apple's been making money off of software and not hardware for a while
Click to expand...

What software? For iPhones? I tried to buy some image s/w IN THE APPLE STORE! They had none, and could not offer ANY s/w for iPhones
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ncted
ncted
slow_poke_pete said:
apple's been making money off of software and not hardware for a while
Click to expand...
I assume you mean services, like iCloud and Apple Music, and not actual software sales. Services have been growing quickly for Apple, but hardware still brings home the bacon. As for where Apple's revenue comes from, the iPhone is still king with 49.58% of revenue as of June 2026. Services comes in second with 28%. iPad, Mac, and Wearables/Home makes up the rest. So, that is 72% coming from hardware. Their profit margin is around 25%, FWIW.

I am skeptical the AppleTV 4k makes them much money on the hardware though, which I suspect is what you were getting at.
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ncted
ncted
navychop said:
What software? For iPhones? I tried to buy some image s/w IN THE APPLE STORE! They had none, and could not offer ANY s/w for iPhones
Click to expand...
You should have looked in the APP STORE instead. ;)
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navychop
navychop
Will do!
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cpdretired
cpdretired
Supporting Founder
Last reply · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

Dish Offers

Several Dish offers showed up today in my account. Once you choose one the rest are removed. Offers were Showtime, Starz, AMC and others.
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bnewt
Just checked my account and it shows mgm+ at 8.00 per month, but that has red line drawn thru it and shows 0.00 per month. But it doesn't say how long this lasts,...... 1 month, 3 months, forever. I called customer service to get an answer, and they said nothing like that exists. Should I add the offer or not? Already paying them too much, but want to take advantage of something free.
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slow_poke_pete
bnewt said:
Just checked my account and it shows mgm+ at 8.00 per month, but that has red line drawn thru it and shows 0.00 per month. But it doesn't say how long this lasts,...... 1 month, 3 months, forever. I called customer service to get an answer, and they said nothing like that exists. Should I add the offer or not? Already paying them too much, but want to take advantage of something free.
Click to expand...
look again mine says free for 1 month
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Almighty1
Almighty1
slow_poke_pete said:
look again mine says free for 1 month
Click to expand...
Not for me, mines has no mention of how long aka the offer period and the Terms and conditions the $0.00 is good for. All I see is one can lose $5.00 if you decide to remove it before day 31 after you add it to the account.

1792131071109.webp
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Almighty1 said:
Not for me, mines has no mention of how long aka the offer period and the Terms and conditions the $0.00 is good for. All I see is one can lose $5.00 if you decide to remove it before day 31 after you add it to the account.

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wonder why it says that
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slow_poke_pete said:
look again mine says free for 1 month
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You have a different offer that is free for a shorter timeframe which is different than the one that I and bnewt saw without defining the promotion period as I sent the question to DISH Care via Facebook Messenger and this is the response I got back 20 minutes ago.

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slow_poke_pete said:
wonder why it says that
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Answer 2 minutes ago from DISH Care via Facebook Messenger:
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