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rtt2
Supporting Founder
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
Skin from executed Chinese prisoners used to make beauty products


The beauty products from the skin of executed Chinese prisoners

· Cosmetics firm targets UK market ·
Lack of regulation puts users at risk

Ian Cobain and Adam Luck
Tuesday September 13, 2005
The Guardian

A Chinese cosmetics company is using skin harvested from the corpses of executed convicts to develop beauty products for sale in Europe, an investigation by the Guardian has discovered.

Agents for the firm have told would-be customers it is developing collagen for lip and wrinkle treatments from skin taken from prisoners after they have been shot. The agents say some of the company's products have been exported to the UK, and that the use of skin from condemned convicts is "traditional" and nothing to "make such a big fuss about".

With European regulations to control cosmetic treatments such as collagen not expected for several years, doctors and politicians say the discovery highlights the dangers faced by the increasing number of Britons seeking to improve their looks. Apart from the ethical concerns, there is also the potential risk of infection.

MPs on the Commons select health committee are to examine the regulatory system and may launch an investigation and question ministers about the need for immediate new controls. "I am sure that the committee will want to look at this," said Kevin Barron, its Labour chairman. "This is something everyone in society will be very concerned about."

Plastic surgeons are also concerned about the delay in introducing regulations to control the cosmetic treatments industry. Norman Waterhouse, a former president of the British Association of Aesthetic Plastic Surgeons, said: "I am surprised that we are taking the lead from the European commission, because this is bound to delay action on this important area which is increasingly a matter for concern. It seems like a bit of a cop out to me."

It is unclear whether any of the "aesthetic fillers" such as collagen available in the UK or on the internet are supplied by the company, which cannot be identified for legal reasons. It is also unclear whether collagen made from prisoners' skin is in the research stage or is in production. However, the Guardian has learned that the company has exported collagen products to the UK in the past. An agent told customers it had also exported to the US and European countries, and that it was trying to develop fillers using tissue from aborted foetuses.

Traditional

When formally approached by the Guardian, the agent denied the company was using skin harvested from executed prisoners. However, he had already admitted it was doing precisely this during a number of conversations with a researcher posing as a Hong Kong businessman. The Press Complaints Commission's code of practice permits subterfuge if there is no other means of investigating a matter of public interest.

The agent told the researcher: "A lot of the research is still carried out in the traditional manner using skin from the executed prisoner and aborted foetus." This material, he said, was being bought from "bio tech" companies based in the northern province of Heilongjiang, and was being developed elsewhere in China.

He suggested that the use of skin and other tissues harvested from executed prisoners was not uncommon. "In China it is considered very normal and I was very shocked that western countries can make such a big fuss about this," he said. Speaking from his office in northern China, he added: "The government has put some pressure on all the medical facilities to keep this type of work in low profile."

The agent said his company exported to the west via Hong Kong."We are still in the early days of selling these products, and clients from abroad are quite surprised that China can manufacture the same human collagen for less than 5% of what it costs in the west." Skin from prisoners used to be even less expensive, he said. "Nowadays there is a certain fee that has to be paid to the court."

The agent's admission comes after an inquiry into the cosmetic surgery industry in Britain, commissioned by the Department of Health, pointed to the need for new regulations controlling collagen treatments. Sir Liam Donaldson, the chief medical officer, has highlighted the inquiry's concerns about the use of cadavers for cosmetic treatments. "Cosmetic procedures are a rapidly growing area of private health care," he said. "We must ensure we properly protect patients' safety by improving the training and regulation."

The DoH has agreed to the inquiry's recommendations, but is waiting for the European commission to draw up proposals for laws governing cosmetic products. It could be several years before this legislation takes force.

Meanwhile, cosmetic treatments, including those with with aesthetic fillers, are growing rapidly in popularity, with around 150,000 injections or implants administered each year in the UK. Lip enhancement treatments are one of the most popular, costing an average of £170.

Some fillers are made from cattle or pig tissue, and others from humans. The DoH believes that there may be a risk of transmission of blood-borne viruses and even vCJD from collagen containing human tissue. Although there is as yet no evidence that this has happened, the inquiry found that some collagen injections had triggered inflammatory reactions causing permanent discomfort, scarring and disfigurement. In their report, the inquiry team said that if there was a risk, "action should be taken to protect patient safety through regulation".

While new regulations are to be drawn up, the department is currently powerless to regulate most human-tissue fillers intended for injection or implant, as they occupy a legal grey area. Most products are not governed by regulations controlling medical products, as they are not classified as medicines. They also escape cosmetics regulations, which only apply to substances used on the surface of the skin and not those injected beneath it. The Healthcare Commission is planning new regulations for cosmetic surgery clinics next year, but these will not control the substances used by plastic surgeons.

Hand transplants

A number of plastic surgeons have told the Guardian that they have been hearing rumours about the use of tissue harvested from executed prisoners for several years.

Peter Butler, a consultant plastic surgeon and government adviser, said there had been rumours that Chinese surgeons had performed hand transplants using hands from executed prisoners. One transplant centre was believed to be adjacent to an execution ground. "I can see the utility of it, as they have access and no ethical objection," he said. "The main concern would be infective risk."

Andrew Lee of the University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine, who has visited China to examine transplant techniques, said he had heard similar rumours.

Manufacturers of aesthetic fillers said they had seen Chinese collagen products on sale at trade fairs, but had not seen any labelled Chinese-made in the UK. Dan Cohen, whose US-based company, Inamed, produces collagen products, said: "We have come across Chinese products in the market place. But most products from China are being sold 'off-label' or are being imported illegally."

In China, authorities deny that prisoners' body parts are harvested without their consent. However, there is some evidence to suggest it may be happening.

In June 2001, Wang Guoqi, a Chinese former military physician, told US congressmen he had worked at execution grounds helping surgeons to harvest the organs of more than 100 executed prisoners, without prior consent. The surgeons used converted vans parked near the execution grounds to begin dissecting the bodies, he told the house international relations committee's human rights panel.

Skin was said to be highly valued for the treatment of burn victims, and Dr Wang said that in 1995 he skinned a shot convict's body while the man's heart was still beating. Dr Wang, who was seeking asylum in the US, also alleged that corneas and other body tissue were removed for transplant, and said his hospital, the Tianjin paramilitary police general brigade hospital, sold body parts for profit.

Human rights activists in China have repeatedly claimed that organs have been harvested from the corpses of executed prisoners and sold to surgeons offering transplants to fee-paying foreigners.

Dr Wang's allegations infuriated the Chinese authorities, and in a rare move officials publicly denounced him as a liar. The government said organs were transplanted from executed prisoners only if they and their family gave consent.

Although the exact number of people facing the death penalty in China is an official secret, Amnesty International believes around 3,400 were executed last year, with a further 6,000 on death row.

What is it?

Collagen is a major structural protein found in abundance in skin, bones, tendons and other connective tissue. Matted sheets of collagen give skin its toughness and by winding into molecular "cables", it adds strength to tendons.

What is it used for?

Collagen injections are used in cosmetic surgery to plump up lips and flatten out wrinkles. After botox, collagen injections are the second-most popular cosmetic operations in Britain. Collagen does not have a permanent effect and several injections are often needed.

What else is it good for?

Collagen was being put to good use as far back as the stone age. Neolithic cave dwellers around the Dead Sea are believed to have used it as a primitive form of glue some 8,000 years ago. More recently, researchers have developed a form that can be poured or injected into wounds to seal them.

Where does it come from?

A number of sources. Some companies extract it from cow skin and treat it to minimise the risk of allergic reactions or infection. Others collect it from human donors or extract cells from the patient before growing the necessary amount in a laboratory.

Is it safe?

Collagen can cause allergic reactions if it has not been treated correctly, and there is a theoretical risk of disease being passed on. A small amount of collagen is often injected into the skin a few weeks before treatment to test for possible allergic reactions. Earlier this year, Sir Liam Donaldson warned that collagen injections could spread conditions such as hepatitis and variant CJD, the human form of mad cow disease.






http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1568467,00.html
3 Replies · 1862 views
BFG
BFG
ummmm


WTF?
riffjim4069
Sound like something we should be doing with all the convicted child molesters in this country, except don't execute them...merely skin them alive with a giant potato peeler. But I digress...
Madtown HD Junkie
riffjim4069 said:
Sound like something we should be doing with all the convicted child molesters in this country, except don't execute them...merely skin them alive with a giant potato peeler. But I digress...


yeah...and then give then a nice warm bath in lemon juice :yes
Scott Greczkowski
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne


Get it?


An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....
68675 Replies · 2681034 views
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long_time_Dish
I Can Hear Music - The Beach Boys
dishstaller
Boom Boom ( Out Go The Lights ) - Pat Travers
sdfntx
Palisades Park - Freddy "Boom Boom" Cannon
RaiderPower
Cherry Hill Park - Billy Joe Royal
long_time_Dish
Lakeside Park - Rush
Bruce
Supporting Founder Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in Internet Television (IPTV) Discussion Forum
I was reading this article


That said this-
Last summer, for the first time, streaming services like Netflix and Amazon Prime claimed the largest share of the television viewing audience, surpassing both cable and broadcast TV. Streaming captured 34.8 percent of July viewers, according to Nielsen data, compared to 34.4 percent for cable and 21.6 percent for broadcast.

And then, sometime in the second half of 2022, cord-cutters became the majority. The share of cable and satellite television subscribers dipped to 48 percent, according to a report from Samba TV, a television technology company.


Now I do not consider those with YTTV and the likes, Cord Cutters, but they still do not have Traditional Cable/Satellite delivered Live TV, so I decided to do the math.

There are, now, 129 Million Households in the United States.

In 2015, there were 100 Million Cable/Sat Subscribers , no streaming Live TV Service.

Today, there are 66 Million Live TV subscribers, including Cable, Satellite and Streaming.

Roughly, Streaming Live TV has 14 Million subs including all of them.

So that means, Cable/Satellite now has, roughly, 51 Million Households

So in just 8 years, lost 49% of their subscribers and by the end of this year, expected sub count to be, roughly, 45 million households.

That means a total loss of 55% since 2015 at the end of 2023.

But out of 129 Million households, 45 million will mean only 35% will get Cable/Satellite Delivered Live TV by the end of 2023.

Imagine what 2024 will be like.
899 Replies · 72332 views
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Bruce
And again, 15 months in a row, streaming wins-

Cable and Broadcast added together-36.4%

Streaming with a massive 49.6%, 13.2% higher than Broadcast/Streaming.

IMG_2172.webp
Jimbo
And again, 15 months in a row, streaming wins-

Cable and Broadcast added together-36.4%

Streaming with a massive 49.6%, 13.2% higher than Broadcast/Streaming.

View attachment 194983
Your Still Thrilled about all this ?

These numbers will Never be accurate as many people use Both still ...

You have services like Hulu Live and You Tube TV that do, what you call Cable, but they ARE Streaming, so Which is is ?

Does it get counted 2x as both Streaming and Cable ?
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S
Your Still Thrilled about all this ?

These numbers will Never be accurate as many people use Both still ...
Nobody is "happy" or "sad" about this. Simply posting data in an non-editorialized way has nothing to do with anyone's feelings.

The data on the streaming side is immensely accurate, I'm guessing to the millisecond. Plus most people likely have not turned off data sharing and thus they are grabbing a huge swath of data. Much more accurate than cable which relies on a smaller sample size and probably not to the second.

In either case, nobody is getting "double counted" because it's usage based. If I watch 100 minutes of content and 30 minutes is on Youtube and 20 minutes on Disney and 50 minutes on YTTV, it's going to show up as 30%, 20%, 50% slices of my personal pie respectively.
Q.
Who does the Counting for Streaming ?

Neilson does the Broadcast/Cable ...
Nielsen does. If you go into the settings of any of your streaming accounts, you can turn off the option to share to usage data with their third party measuring service - Nielsen.
Jimbo
Nobody is "happy" or "sad" about this. Simply posting data in an non-editorialized way has nothing to do with anyone's feelings.

The data on the streaming side is immensely accurate, I'm guessing to the millisecond. Plus most people likely have not turned off data sharing and thus they are grabbing a huge swath of data. Much more accurate than cable which relies on a smaller sample size and probably not to the second.

In either case, nobody is getting "double counted" because it's usage based. If I watch 100 minutes of content and 30 minutes is on Youtube and 20 minutes on Disney and 50 minutes on YTTV, it's going to show up as 30%, 20%, 50% slices of my personal pie respectively.

Nielsen does. If you go into the settings of any of your streaming accounts, you can turn off the option to share to usage data with their third party measuring service - Nielsen.
I have turned some off, not others ...
dishstaller

Funny thing is that as the screen size and pic quality increase, the quality of the programming has DEcreased.
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dishdude
skipped the OLED Tv entirely?

AI slop
dishstaller
Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter
Last reply · posted in DISH Network Support Forum
I figured some of the guys would be looking here for an answer. You'll need to use this link

I'll mention what happened over there. I don't want to cause Scott any issues or put him in a bad spot.
3 Replies · 74 views
dishstaller
If any of you know some of the guys from the board and you have their contact info, please reach out to them....many failed to update their contact info and some even had starband email addresses.
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Scott Greczkowski
I figured some of the guys would be looking here for an answer. You'll need to use this link

I'll mention what happened over there. I don't want to cause Scott any issues or put him in a bad spot.
Now I have to go check out what happened now. Lol!
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Scott Greczkowski
Went and looked, not too bad...

Just let people know the address is satelliteretailer.com as DishRetailer.COM is not working. :)
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osu1991
Pub Member / Supporter
Last reply · posted in The Chit Chat Club
:mad::mad::mad::mad:

Pissed off at the crappy healthcare costs

My health Insurance renewal for 2027 just came in. Going from $827 a month to $1,187 a month. Deductible going up a $1k to $9,350. Max out of pocket also going up $1k to $11,000. Doctor co-pay of $40. Urgent Care co-pay $50. ER 50% coinsurance after deductible. That's all in network. Out of network is double, should it be needed.

Have to think about this. I'm really tempted to just go without now. I only go to the doctor once or twice a year. I pay out of pocket for Tirzepitide and can do without the Rosuvastatin (crestor) now. Really tired of spending over $10k a year and getting nothing out of it.

After years with Blue Cross I switched last year to Ambetter as my Blue Cross premium was going from $1200 to $1800 for a Silver plan and the Bronze plan was still going to be $1300 at BCBS. Ambetter was $827 for the same coverage with a Bronze plan. Didn't think it would jump this much so soon.

I'm guessing a Silver plan is probably over $2,000 a month for 2027.
11 Replies · 114 views
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b4pjoe
Pissed off at the crappy healthcare costs
Are you employed with no work insurance or that is what you are paying for your workplace insurance? Or is that through Healthcare.gov? Retired? Eligible for medicare?
vazhog
that cut is only for illegals to get off the rolls and I was being sarcastic before -
osu1991
Are you employed with no work insurance or that is what you are paying for your workplace insurance? Or is that through Healthcare.gov? Retired? Eligible for medicare?
Started my own business in 2006, been self employed for 20 years this year.
meStevo
that cut is only for illegals to get off the rolls and I was being sarcastic before -

Even sarcastically it's wrong. Undocumented immigrants already weren't eligible for federal Medicaid, so there's no one to "get off the rolls." The immigrant-related pieces are a small part of the ~$1 trillion. They cut the federal match for emergency care from 90% to the state's regular rate and end eligibility for some lawful immigrants like refugees. Most of the "savings" come from work requirements, more frequent eligibility checks, and provider tax limits, which hit citizens.

Either way, the cost doesn't disappear. It shifts to states, hospitals, and everyone else's premiums and will only serve to make issues like those raised in this thread worse.
dishstaller
Undocumented immigrants already weren't eligible for federal Medicaid, so there's no one to "get off the rolls."
That's only part correct. Actually I had to look it up to make sure. There is NO Federal money going to Medicaid for illegals but there ARE some states that use State money to pay for Medicaid for illegals. Here's the list

    • California: Covers all income-eligible undocumented adults. [1, 2]
    • Colorado: Covers specific adult demographics (with upcoming budget caps in 2027). [1]
    • Illinois: Covers specific adult age brackets. [1]
    • New York: Covers specific adult demographics. [1]
    • Oregon: Covers all income-eligible undocumented adults. [1, 2]
    • Washington: Covers specific adult demographics. [1, 2]
    • Washington, D.C.: Provides adult coverage through the D.C. Health Care Alliance. [1, 2]
meStevo
That's only part correct. Actually I had to look it up to make sure. There is NO Federal money going to Medicaid for illegals but there ARE some states that use State money to pay for Medicaid for illegals. Here's the list

    • California: Covers all income-eligible undocumented adults. [1, 2]
    • Colorado: Covers specific adult demographics (with upcoming budget caps in 2027). [1]
    • Illinois: Covers specific adult age brackets. [1]
    • New York: Covers specific adult demographics. [1]
    • Oregon: Covers all income-eligible undocumented adults. [1, 2]
    • Washington: Covers specific adult demographics. [1, 2]
    • Washington, D.C.: Provides adult coverage through the D.C. Health Care Alliance. [1, 2]

Fair point, but it's consistent with what I said: no federal Medicaid money goes to undocumented immigrants. Those programs are state-funded, so the federal ~$1T cut can't touch them. Whatever states decide to do with their own programs is a separate budget decision.
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vazhog
The feds give money to the states for them to use - Cutting the fed funding only means the taxpayer savings will passed onto the states that need to make up the Fed dollars cut -See the list above for those states affected
dfergie
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU!
Last reply · posted in What's Cooking?
We have a Breakfast and Dinner thread so... :)
Continuing from the Breakfast thread, found Cornbread mix so ...
Yellow Cornbread Mix
2 Hatch Green Chiles -diced
1 Egg
2/3 cup of milk
add to greased pan
Bake for 400f 20-25 minutes(From instructions)
now to put together and try... this to go with pinto beans...
5450 Replies · 336212 views
dfergie
Chili dog bowl, water… (homemade chili)
TRG
TRG
Leftover wanton soup and pork fried rice. Water.
dfergie
IMG_5955.webp

Sweet tea…
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TRG
TRG
Tuna salad sandwich on toasted honey whole wheat bread with a handful of kettle chips. Water.
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TRG
TRG
Breakfast for lunch. Crispy corned beef hash, home fries, two over easy eggs and sourdough toast.

1653.webp
dfergie
Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU!
Last reply · posted in The Sports Section
160 Replies · 3666 views
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Foxbat
Weird F1 weekend is already over with a Saturday race.
dfergie
Tried to watch the truck race but the stage c**p is why I don't watch NASCAR anymore…
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Y
Today is the anniversary of Dan Wheldon's passing at Las Vegas in a dreadful crash that luckily didn't take more drivers' lives. I vaguely remember the crash, but I more strongly remember Paul Tracy trying to keep it together as he left the Medical Center knowing that Dan most likely wasn't going to.

The safety in these vehicles is beyond incomprehensible, especially relative to what it was 60 years ago, when dying wasn't unexpected. But it is still very dangerous. I always scoff at the prayer invocations, but never scoff at the risks these drivers take and the emergency workers out there who might need to pull short of a miracle to save a driver's life.
Tried to watch the truck race but the stage c**p is why I don't watch NASCAR anymore…
HBO Max has the live in car streaming without commercials, which provides an interesting take, but you are driving blind, knowing only what the team is telling the driver about what is happening on the track. The stages definitely ruin the NASCAR set up.
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Y
NASCAR is an abject mess, but at least it has Kyle Larson. Guy had the lead on the green/white checker, fell back to 12th or the like, kept his cool, and charged back to win with room to spare at the line. And win very cleanly!

NASCAR needs to stop racing at Talladega. Especially if they are going for elderly Sunday drives at the track! Stage racing is real stupid, but NASCAR should consider one half point a second per group gap as a bonus.