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Tom Bombadil

Supporting Founder

Last reply Dec 1, 2006 · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

E* Customer Service Ratings Drop

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/tech/article/0,2777,DRMN_23910_5166215,00.html

Dish Network renews customer service focus

By Joyzelle Davis, Rocky Mountain News
November 24, 2006

Dish Network became the nation's third-biggest pay-TV provider by positioning itself as a consumer- friendly alternative to the cumbersome bureaucracies of cable companies.

But as the company's leader recently pointed out, Dish is in danger of losing its edge.

"We're not rated No. 1 in every poll like we used to be," Charlie Ergen, chief executive of Douglas County- based Dish parent EchoStar Communications, said in a conference call with analysts this month.

Ergen was referring to two closely watched annual customer surveys: the University of Michigan's American Customer Satisfaction Index and the J.D. Power and Associates residential cable/satellite satisfaction study.

For the first time in three years, Dish slid to second place in the -ACSI survey. In the J.D. Power study, Dish placed behind a cable provider or behind satellite-TV rival DirecTV in every region of the country.

Responsive customer service has always been a priority for Dish, which launched its satellite-TV network in 1996 and now has 12.8 million customers. Both Dish and larger rival DirecTV took off in the mid-1990s after positioning themselves as innovative alternatives to moribund cable companies. But after years of losing subscribers, cable providers have responded by investing billions to upgrade their networks.

Cable's digital programming tiers now offer the same breadth of channels and clear pictures as satellite, as well as technologies such as video on demand, phone service and high- speed Internet that satellite can't match.

Ergen "has to have something to differentiate Dish in the market, and that's service, service, service," said Steve Kirkeby, director of telecommunications and technology research at J.D. Power.

EchoStar officials declined to comment for this article. The company's actions, however, indicate that it's working to close the customer service gap.

In the past few months, EchoStar opened a 600-person call center, the company's 11th, in Texas and rolled out an automated speech-recognition phone system to answer calls faster. The company also created the position of executive vice president in charge of Dish's national installation and service network. It moved Chief Financial Officer David Rayner to the post in September.

Those efforts sliced into EchoStar's third-quarter profit, which fell 33 percent to $140 million. The quarter also was dragged down by tough comparisons with last year, when EchoStar benefited from a $73 million tax gain.

Dish's rivals haven't been sitting still. Next year, DirecTV will open a 1,000-employee call center in Denver. And cable rivals have put millions into hiring and training new customer service agents.

"Cable companies have invested quite a lot of money in getting better and better," said Jimmy Schaeffler, chairman of research firm the Carmel Group. "Hollywood today couldn't make a movie called The Cable Guy because it wouldn't have the same meaning any more."

Keeping subscribers isn't the only reason for EchoStar's refocused attention on customer service. Ergen's comments on the analyst call came in response to a question about whether the company has considered offering Internet-based phone service as a bundle with its video service.

Ergen replied that while EchoStar isn't interested in offering a phone service just now, there may be "other things that we certainly can sell them" in the future.

But in order to do that, he said, "you better be really good at your customer service to begin with."

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Zero327

Nov 29, 2006

Your average customer knows JUST enough information about their equipment to get by on day-to-day programs and recordings. Most customers beyond that, couldn't find a set of batteries if the Energizer bunny was sitting in their lap. It's not anyone's fault so I don't see why blame is so commonly placed on CSRs.

Here's the reality. A call center atmosphere is VERY undesirable. Essentially, you're getting screamed at for eight hours a day plus. Now everyone has choices and there's others jobs out there, but if all the CSRs that didn't like getting screamed at up and quit, the next post on this board would be whining about CSRs never answering the phones.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. There's only several thousand (not tens of thousands, not hundreds of thousands, just a few thousand) CSRs to service 12.8+ million customers and growing each day. MOST customers, will experience 1-3 issues over the life of their account, whether it be a $1.99 mischarge or something requiring a replacement receiver. And I agree education of customers will always exist (sad isn't it) about basic electronic functions, and equally some CSRs could use higher tier training. But overall, most CSRs, "frontline" CSRs, the ones people come to the forums to insult all day are really there for a few small reasons. To fix billing errors as they come along, to make programming changes at the customer's request, and to add PPV's for customers that opt to lock that feature via remote. Not all CSRs are technically trained (they understand basic receiver function in most cases but don't ask them to troubleshoot.)

And regarding the 70+ page manual, yes and no. If you buy a $600 satellite system, I would think for your investment you would read the "do not place fork in electrical socket" book. If customers CHOOSE not to do so or find it inconvenient, how is that the CSRs fault? The answer's on page three but I'll just make a call, sit on hold for half an hour, make your life hell for the next hour for the half hour I was on hold, and all so you can tell me my TV should be on channel three or four.

Ignorance, willful, paid for or otherwise is not a valid excuse.

Tom Bombadil

Nov 29, 2006

Zero327 said:
Ignorance, willful, paid for or otherwise is not a valid excuse.

Yes it is. If you do not design your entire support system, from the ground up, to deal with ignorant customers, then you are going to pay a heavy price.

If you make the assumption that customers are going to read the manuals, and you build a support center that isn't designed to handle the load of calls that will come in as a result of people not reading the manual, and you don't have your agents trained to give answers that are in the manual, then you are doomed to failure.

That's just the way it is.

The only way you can run on a thin call center is to make your product extremely simply to use.

Right now Dish is not making something about their products easy to use. Whether that is the product, the upgrade options, the installation process, the equipment, whatever, I don't know. What I do know is that Dish is driving their customers to make more calls than their competitors. And because of this, Dish is having more of their revenue eaten up in support cost.

And all of these complexity is making it more difficult for their CSRs to quickly answer questions. This is making Dish customers less satisfied.

Most likely this is due to Dish rolling out too many products, upgrades, services, and equipment changes without taking into account the human support factor. Perhaps the engineers or marketers have had too much power in their decision making.

Look at Dish's product lines. They have D500, D1000, D300, D1000+, SuperDish 105, SuperDish 121 satellite dishes. Satellites at 61.5, 105, 110, 118.7, 119, 121, 129 and 148. More receivers in play than almost anyone can name. Family Pack, AT60, AT120, AT180, AEP, locals, HD-Bronze, HD-Silver, HD-Gold, HD-Platinum, Superstations, Sports packages, PBS, Several premium movie packages & combinations, tons of foreign language channels, public info channels, multiple music channel packs, and more. Then there are several different switches and LNBs. Different service plans. Different lease options. Different trade-in programs. PPVs. Billing problems (and a very unfriendly, hard to interpret billing system). Multiple programmable remotes.

They are trying to provide support on this extemely complex product offering through multiple call centers located around the world. And to top it off, their automated problem resolution solutions are below average.

This is a company in DESPARATE need of a simplified product line. At some point, they are going to have to bite the bullet and start de-supporting older products.

I know a little bit about this because one of the operations I oversee for my employer is a call center. Dish has created a call center nightmare environment.

dishcomm

Nov 29, 2006

Tom Bombadil said:
Yes it is. If you do not design your entire support system, from the ground up, to deal with ignorant customers, then you are going to pay a heavy price.

If you make the assumption that customers are going to read the manuals, and you build a support center that isn't designed to handle the load of calls that will come in as a result of people not reading the manual, and you don't have your agents trained to give answers that are in the manual, then you are doomed to failure.

That's just the way it is.

The only way you can run on a thin call center is to make your product extremely simply to use.

Right now Dish is not making something about their products easy to use. Whether that is the product, the upgrade options, the installation process, the equipment, whatever, I don't know. What I do know is that Dish is driving their customers to make more calls than their competitors. And because of this, Dish is having more of their revenue eaten up in support cost.

And all of these complexity is making it more difficult for their CSRs to quickly answer questions. This is making Dish customers less satisfied.

Most likely this is due to Dish rolling out too many products, upgrades, services, and equipment changes without taking into account the human support factor. Perhaps the engineers or marketers have had too much power in their decision making.

Look at Dish's product lines. They have D500, D1000, D300, D1000+, SuperDish 105, SuperDish 121 satellite dishes. Satellites at 61.5, 105, 110, 118.7, 119, 121, 129 and 148. More receivers in play than almost anyone can name. Family Pack, AT60, AT120, AT180, AEP, locals, HD-Bronze, HD-Silver, HD-Gold, HD-Platinum, Superstations, Sports packages, PBS, Several premium movie packages & combinations, tons of foreign language channels, public info channels, multiple music channel packs, and more. Then there are several different switches and LNBs. Different service plans. Different lease options. Different trade-in programs. PPVs. Billing problems (and a very unfriendly, hard to interpret billing system). Multiple programmable remotes.

They are trying to provide support on this extemely complex product offering through multiple call centers located around the world. And to top it off, their automated problem resolution solutions are below average.

This is a company in DESPARATE need of a simplified product line. At some point, they are going to have to bite the bullet and start de-supporting older products.

I know a little bit about this because one of the operations I oversee for my employer is a call center. Dish has created a call center nightmare environment.

number one complaint from my customers..They can't stand the foriegn call center.
Next most popular complaint is they don't understand the use of the EQ...
This one really gets me....These people have just ordered a satellite system to be installed in their home and thewy know absolutely nothing of what they have purchased...They ask ME what their mothly rate is going to be!!!! The haven't a clue of the concept of a dual tuner reciver..Quite frankly, dish should stop pushing these receivers on people of limited technical ability..I get pretty sick of the deer in the headlights look I get from some customers AFTER the product demo.....Customers seem to think they have no resonsibilties...
I think Dish in it's haste to be first to to put new technology on the market has left them vulnerable to excess customer complaints....

Zero327

Nov 30, 2006

Here's what I love about that fact. A lot of what Tom mentions is true. Counterargument, those same customers, the clueless, techno-inept, incapable, uneducated or otherwise confused customers, are the ones calling and SCREAMING at CSRs to not give them one of whatever the newest DVR happens to be, but usually two. Customers care more about having the newest whatever regardless of what it is, (Is a satellite receiver a status symbol like a Porsche? I could write a paper.) If you think that's untrue, let's watch the 222 and ... well you'll have to wait for the facts blast on that one.

Customers consistantly purchase equipment they don't know anything about, have any idea on how to operate, and only care that they have one..........until they try and turn it on...because they were paying attention during installation.

If you buy a car, go to the pump and put Diesal in it its first new tank...then something goes wrong, do you get to call and scream at the car manufacturer? There's also something wrong in a high-end high-tech industry where you have to dumb-down the equipment to meet the customer's understanding, not innovate the equipment to meet the customer's understanding. If a customer doesn't get it, they shouldn't buy it...but they're going to, DISH is going to continue to be blamed for it, and life goes on.

It's logically irresponsible to blame DISH for a customer's inability to comprehend. It's ..."odd" to then expect DISH to make a simpler product because some (not all or even most) customers can't seem to get it. The ones that do love it, that DISH is even competition for DTV let alone on their heels tells you that. But you don't change your business to suit a minority. That's not wise business judgment.

dishcomm

Nov 30, 2006

Zero327 said:
Here's what I love about that fact. A lot of what Tom mentions is true. Counterargument, those same customers, the clueless, techno-inept, incapable, uneducated or otherwise confused customers, are the ones calling and SCREAMING at CSRs to not give them one of whatever the newest DVR happens to be, but usually two. Customers care more about having the newest whatever regardless of what it is, (Is a satellite receiver a status symbol like a Porsche? I could write a paper.) If you think that's untrue, let's watch the 222 and ... well you'll have to wait for the facts blast on that one.

Customers consistantly purchase equipment they don't know anything about, have any idea on how to operate, and only care that they have one..........until they try and turn it on...because they were paying attention during installation.

If you buy a car, go to the pump and put Diesal in it its first new tank...then something goes wrong, do you get to call and scream at the car manufacturer? There's also something wrong in a high-end high-tech industry where you have to dumb-down the equipment to meet the customer's understanding, not innovate the equipment to meet the customer's understanding. If a customer doesn't get it, they shouldn't buy it...but they're going to, DISH is going to continue to be blamed for it, and life goes on.

It's logically irresponsible to blame DISH for a customer's inability to comprehend. It's ..."odd" to then expect DISH to make a simpler product because some (not all or even most) customers can't seem to get it. The ones that do love it, that DISH is even competition for DTV let alone on their heels tells you that. But you don't change your business to suit a minority. That's not wise business judgment.

I sit on the fence sometimes on issues such as this..I see both and inadequate Customer service system and a less than techno- savvy consumer base....
While it is almost insulting for,say a seller to ask a prospect if they are able to operate a product, it is also quite evident that many consumers go through life disinterstested in their purchases.....I have found that most customers do litle or no reasearch on satellite tv before making a purchase...upon my arrival at the custs home I explain how the job is going to be done, placement of dish etc..The second I mention "dual tuner" that's when the fun begins...I would estimate it takes at least 20 mins to explain this concept..Some people catch on, many do not...DVR's are another issue....No offense but if during precall I find my customer to be elderly, I make sure I bring single tuner receivers with me...Most thank me for talking them into the single tuner boxes....
On the call center side my biggest concern is Dish's policy of allowing CSR's to recommend trouble shoots over the phine to custs..Bad move..By the time I get to that service call the customer is so pissed off, they take it out on me...
IMO whn acustomer calls in for a service issue, the first and only response from the CSR should be " ok we'll seend a technician out to take care of the problem...Why Dish encourages customers to tamper with theiur EQ is a mystery to me..Now, just running a check switch is not tampering but checking cable fittings for tightness, moving that satellite receiver around to look at the back,disconnecting one port,or both from the seperator etc..This is tampering...Perosnally, I don't want customers to even breathe hard on the EQ...how the hell can you trust soemone who cannot grasp the concept of a remote control on -off buttton to start diagnosing a signal issue..
One last itme..Trouble calls...Retailers don't do many of these but......Dish issues non pay trouble call work orders for the stupidest crap...Here's an example..I installed a system not long ago. I get a trouble cal work order about a week later..Says there is a video probelem..Customer not getting picture on main tv....Ok I figure the receiver has gone bad...Turns out he cust bought a new TV and couldn't figure out how to connect it to the receiver....No big deal but here in lies the problem...Dish WILL NOT charge that customer for that service visit even though THEY caused the problem..In turn, we do not get paid for that service visit...IMO this is not right..If we screw up that's one thing..But if the customer causes the problem ,they should have to pay up...

ToddMeister

Nov 30, 2006

Well, here is a good CS post, FWIW.

My last three CS calls went flawlessly. The most recent, I didn't even talk to a person, I was able to change my programming thru the phone menus, and it was pretty simple. Programming changes appeared on the receiver within a half hour. Previous two calls before last one were about checking the status of a used receiver purchased to replace an older model, and then to activate the "new" used receiver.

Zero327

Dec 1, 2006

dishcomm said:
I sit on the fence sometimes on issues such as this..I see both and inadequate Customer service system and a less than techno- savvy consumer base....
While it is almost insulting for,say a seller to ask a prospect if they are able to operate a product, it is also quite evident that many consumers go through life disinterstested in their purchases.....I have found that most customers do litle or no reasearch on satellite tv before making a purchase...upon my arrival at the custs home I explain how the job is going to be done, placement of dish etc..The second I mention "dual tuner" that's when the fun begins...I would estimate it takes at least 20 mins to explain this concept..Some people catch on, many do not...DVR's are another issue....No offense but if during precall I find my customer to be elderly, I make sure I bring single tuner receivers with me...Most thank me for talking them into the single tuner boxes....
On the call center side my biggest concern is Dish's policy of allowing CSR's to recommend trouble shoots over the phine to custs..Bad move..By the time I get to that service call the customer is so pissed off, they take it out on me...
IMO whn acustomer calls in for a service issue, the first and only response from the CSR should be " ok we'll seend a technician out to take care of the problem...Why Dish encourages customers to tamper with theiur EQ is a mystery to me..Now, just running a check switch is not tampering but checking cable fittings for tightness, moving that satellite receiver around to look at the back,disconnecting one port,or both from the seperator etc..This is tampering...Perosnally, I don't want customers to even breathe hard on the EQ...how the hell can you trust soemone who cannot grasp the concept of a remote control on -off buttton to start diagnosing a signal issue..
One last itme..Trouble calls...Retailers don't do many of these but......Dish issues non pay trouble call work orders for the stupidest crap...Here's an example..I installed a system not long ago. I get a trouble cal work order about a week later..Says there is a video probelem..Customer not getting picture on main tv....Ok I figure the receiver has gone bad...Turns out he cust bought a new TV and couldn't figure out how to connect it to the receiver....No big deal but here in lies the problem...Dish WILL NOT charge that customer for that service visit even though THEY caused the problem..In turn, we do not get paid for that service visit...IMO this is not right..If we screw up that's one thing..But if the customer causes the problem ,they should have to pay up...

You make some good points. The customer troubleshooting is just a cost efficiency would be my best guess. I think sometimes DISH overestimates its customer base. Now that's not a bad thing, but a customer's ability to operate let alone diagnose a piece of equipment they barely if even know how to turn on makes my skin crawl. So I'm with you there. But alternatively, if two or three customers actually get the point and manage to bring their system completely back online, that's money saved, so I see that side of it as well.

As for the work order, I would have called in an had a modification to a reinstall so I could charge. I recommend that course of action the next time. E-connect work order descriptions are based on what's assessed at customer call-in, not necessarily a true statement. What customer do you know that's going to say "I wanted new equipment, unplugged everything, put my new TV in place, but I can't figure out how to put my receiver back together again." I mean it happens, but not often.

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Lon.TV

Last reply 7 minutes ago · posted in Lon.TV

Broadcasters To Encrypt Emergency Messages with DRM..

Time for another AWESOME video from Lon Seidman of LON.TV!

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dViecB76yco

Direct YouTube Link - Broadcasters To Encrypt Emergency Messages with DRM..
The Official LON.TV Website
Lon on Facebook

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Redbullsnation

7 minutes ago

Well, ATSC 3 is a flop

Scott Greczkowski

Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU! Cutting Edge

Last reply 23 minutes ago · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Song Name Game Part 3!

Sometimes a thread gets so many posts in it that is can cause issues for the server so that why today we introduce The Song Name Game Part 3!

So let the game continue!

The last song was added by Bobby who posted...

One Meat Ball - Andrews Sisters

CONTINUE ON AND HAVE FUN! WELCOME HOME TO SATELLITEGUYS.US!

Here are the original rules for the game as posted by WebbyDude back in 2006. http://www.satelliteguys.us/threads/68645-Song-Name-Game

Just name a song title and the band who performed it. The next person does the same thing, but needs to list a song title or band name which includes a word from the previous entry. Pick songs from any genre.

Example:

Long Live Rock and Roll -- Rainbow

Rainbow in the Dark -- Dio

Another example:

Ride the Lightning -- Metallica

Lightning Strikes -- Ozzy Osbourne

Get it?

An additional note: we all know that song titles, sometimes, use profane words. Because this is a family friendly website it is advised that you clean up that title up a bit. This is accomplished by using something like sh!t instead of the real word. Thanks....

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ClarkGable

Today at 5:51 AM

Working My Way Back To You - The Four Seasons

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dishstaller

Today at 8:07 AM

Don't Look Back - Boston

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harshness

Today at 10:03 AM

Please Come to Boston - Dave Loggins

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Bobby

Today at 10:58 AM

Come A Little Bit Closer - Jay and the Americans

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sdfntx

23 minutes ago

Closer to You - Brandi Carlile

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ewindowman

Lifetime Supporter

Last reply 38 minutes ago · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

Dish Bankruptcy - Business as Usual

Looks like dish is Bankrupt. Filling tomorrow Tuesday June 30th

473 Replies · 16770 views

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slow_poke_pete

Yesterday at 6:38 PM

https://www.phonearena.com/news/att-reshoring-customer-care_id184650

Meanwhile att is getting rid of overseas call centers

Reactions: Almighty1, Bobby, HipKat and 1 other person

comfortably_numb

Yesterday at 6:52 PM

slow_poke_pete said:
https://www.phonearena.com/news/att-reshoring-customer-care_id184650

Meanwhile att is getting rid of overseas call centers

Too bad their service is expensive and their coverage sucks compared to the other two of the Big 3

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Juan

Yesterday at 9:50 PM

comfortably_numb said:
Too bad their service is expensive and their coverage sucks compared to the other two of the Big 3

Was that a back door compliment for Verizon?

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comfortably_numb

Today at 9:27 AM

Juan said:
Was that a back door compliment for Verizon?

And TMO. If anybody's lagging behind the most, it's ATT.

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ERSanders

Today at 10:52 AM

The short term financial thinking by MBAs is what killed Xerox. Ask me how I know!

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navychop

Today at 11:09 AM

So you have a MBA?
:devilish

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Juan

39 minutes ago

ERSanders said:
The short term financial thinking by MBAs is what killed Xerox. Ask me how I know!

I thought it was when Bill Gates stole DOS

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dishdude

38 minutes ago

Juan said:
I thought it was when Bill Gates stole DOS

And Steve Jobs stole the mouse and GUI

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juventusbrown

Last reply 40 minutes ago · posted in C-BAND Satellite Discussion

40w transponder

Hi guys, is anyone getting any quality on transponder 4135 L 30000 I'm not getting any quality few weeks now.

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Satfaca

40 minutes ago

No problem here (in central Europe) with a 10-footer. Do note that 9.4 dB required for the lock.
The mod is DVB-S2 8PSK with FEC 5/6.

dfergie

Staff member HERE TO HELP YOU!

Last reply Today at 10:44 AM · posted in The Chit Chat Club

Gas Price Info With National Gas Temperature Map

Stumbled across this ... http://www.gaspricewatch.com/USGas_ZipSearch.asp
I found no local prices, although it did show stations at my location...
Added these to this post...
USA National Gas Temperature Map
State By State Gasoline Taxes
Gas Buddy

Ethanol Free Stations

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Bobby

Yesterday at 11:04 AM

Regular$5.299
Premium$5.859
Diesel$7.599
at Costco, Rohnert Park.

harshness

Yesterday at 4:41 PM

Finally! Some big movement in California diesel pricing (and no, there is no such beastie as a diesel "winter formula").

Crude (combined pricing) is around $90/barrel now, so prices should have, at least, fallen in step with the crude futures.

dishstaller

Today at 8:19 AM

harshness said:
Finally! Some big movement in California diesel pricing (and no, there is no such beastie as a diesel "winter formula").

Just curious here.....then why is diesel so much higher out there than it is elsewhere. Bobby just posted $7.59/gal, locally it is $5.59.....that's two bucks difference. :eeek

harshness

Today at 10:25 AM

dishstaller said:
Just curious here.....then why is diesel so much higher out there than it is elsewhere.

California has a ~93¢ per gallon consumer tax rate on automotive diesel, along with significantly higher refinement standards.

The fact that consumers can only buy some new full-sized truck models and a couple of vans with diesel power makes the fuel an odd duck in refinery priorities.

osu1991

Today at 10:44 AM

$3.50-$3.52 around Tulsa and $3.45 in OKC

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ts27330

Today at 9:47 AM · posted in Cable Television and Fiber Providers

Charter/Spectrum tv app works with more brands

The Charter/Spectrum tv app has been updated to make it downloaded with more tv brands. I recently added it to my LG Oled tv.

0 Replies · 28 views

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Bobby

Supporting Founder Lifetime Supporter

Last reply Today at 9:27 AM · posted in DISH Network Support Forum

4K Events Discussion Thread

This thread is a place to discuss the 4K events that appear on channel 540. We are getting, at this point, one college football game a week. Let's hope there is more coming.

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long_time_Dish

Oct 23, 2026

No NASCAR in 4K on Sunday? Bummer...

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Jim5506

Oct 24, 2026

long_time_Dish said:
No NASCAR in 4K on Sunday? Bummer...

It's on Prime.

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long_time_Dish

Oct 24, 2026

Jim5506 said:
It's on Prime.

Ah, ok, thanks!

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Foxbat

Oct 24, 2026

The World Series Game 1 quality was excellent, the Dolby Surround put us in the seats. Thanks, Dish!

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sasmith

Yesterday at 9:22 PM

Not seeing many 4k games on the 148 channels lately?

Also I do not see the 4KFox channel on 148-01; I also do not subscribed to our Local Houston channels.

Maybe I need to subscribe to locals or add the National Action Pack? Not sure the extra cost is worth it??

thx for any info or suggestions

S

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jsmit86

Today at 9:27 AM

sasmith said:
Not seeing many 4k games on the 148 channels lately?

Also I do not see the 4KFox channel on 148-01; I also do not subscribed to our Local Houston channels.

Maybe I need to subscribe to locals or add the National Action Pack? Not sure the extra cost is worth it??

thx for any info or suggestions

S

Most of the 4K action on the 148-xx channels will be on Saturday for College Football. For whatever reason, the guide does not show the games until later in the week. The Fox Big Noon game will show up, and there will usually be a couple of other games, some on Fox, and some on ESPN.

I don't know if you need to be subscribed to locals to get them.

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dishstaller

Pub Member / Supporter Lifetime Supporter

Today at 8:50 AM · posted in The Chit Chat Club

FDA issues new warning for Ozempic - can cause eye-stroke

Now after reading this story I walked away thinking that this is being blown out of proportion because of the incredibly low numbers of those affected.....BUT....I've read posts by some of you who are taking this drug so I figured it was worth posting.