1.2M Geosat Pro and DG380 Installation Pains

[gremlin411]

My calculation for SatelliteAV 1.2m and HH motor at 38.8 degrees Lat:
minus 4.5 degrees bracket correction factor.

Anyway, that's what I found in my notes. :up

Maybe this is what you missed . you said you added 4.5 degrees try to sub tract it from your total.

 

[skysurfer]

Yes! the LNB works perfectly. I was able to hit 95°W with minimum of 75% quality when I swung the entire setup to 95°W. Unfortunately, i didn't record the settings.

that's good to verify LNB works and that are your dish is slicing through some part of the arc.

I recommend doing a c-band dish type alignment at this point as it's helped me to go back to my cband roots when I've had aiming issues with motorized 1.2M or smaller dishes.

Go to your due-south sat and peak up elevation. Drive dish in each direction to see if the arc falls off, because if it does you should have a polar axis alignment issue and you will need to rotate the dish/motor east or west about the mounting pole to correct that. Go back to due south, peak elevation, repeat to see if the whole arc comes in or only portions and repeat as necessary until the arc comes in fully.

BTW, also make sure the pole stays aligned as the weight of your dish shifts from actuating from south to the east and to the west. I had a problem with alignment and the DG380 this summer that was getting to me. I had the jmast pole tightly secure and plumb but was having arc tracking issues. Something hit me, I set up a test, and found the platform I built for the dish jmast to sit on was shifting ever so slightly as the dish moved to the extreme directions from south. Since I need that dish only for 80 deg W and points east, I cheated my aiming to get the east end pefect instead of sturdying up the platform enough not to shift in order to get the whole arc.

 

[Bill_KY]

Are you saying that I would'nt be able to lock on 72°W because on the Building's presence?

My situation is the next door neighbors house, I tried mounting the WS7630 dish to the right of my Orion 76 cm dish (the dish further away in the picture) to get 74W, It would not work.

So I had the set the WS7630 dish back on the deck so I can just about clear my neighbor's house and it worked... for the most part, but I am only getting 46% PQ....so I believe I am still getting some blockage.

My solution would be to just set the dish way back in the yard to clear the houses, but that is 150 feet and it does not justify the extra expense in long coax unless I decided to motorize it.

 

[AcWxRadar]

Babadem,

Hi bud! I hope that I can help you with your set up. I have the very same dish and motor. GeoSat Pro 1.2 M and Power Tech DG-380.

Thanks to SatelliteAV and Sadoun!

Also, my location may help because my latitude and yours are actually quite close. You state that your latitude is 42.08 N and I am at 41.6 N, so this will aid because our readings will be fairly similar.

My longitude is way over west, but that won't matter until we get to the nearest true south satellite (I use 97.0 W and yours will be 72.0 W).

Let's hit on this while we are here as I can get a really good signal from 72.0W AMC 6. I get at least two TPs in consistently and these are:

11.891 GHz Horizontal. Symbol rate 1.666 MS/s (KFTL)
VPID: 4197 APID: 4198

12.053 GHz Vertical. Symbol rate 6.890 MS/s (NBC SAT MUX)
VPID: 120 APID: 110 CH 1
VPID: 220 APID: 210 CH 2
VPID: 320 APID: 310 CH 3
VPID: 420 APID: 410 CH 4

Now back to the mechanical setup. It is 17 degrees F outside and snowing, so I do not want to spend too much time out there this morning! And my very first comment is: "Make sure that the mast is plumb!" I always have to state this, even if it seems tiresome and repetitious.

Attach the motor bracket to the mast and tighten the clamps equally from each nut. Don't overtighten them, they just need to be secure. Attach the motor to the clamp and snug the bolts, then check the sides of the motor clamp with a level to ensure that it is not malformed or bent. You want to transfer the plumbness of the mast to the clamp and thus, the motor.

Onto the motor. You can trust the raised pointer on the DG-380 motor housing for your latitude setting on the motor's scale. I have several DG-380's and several DG-280's and have checked them all against an inclinometer and they are all accurate.

If you want to double check your own motor with an inclinometer, you will want the dish and motor tube removed so that you can get the inclinometer slapped against the flat portion of the belly of the motor (lower half of the housing). The angle you will read on the inclinometer will be the elevation (or 90 degrees - the latitude).

For your location, set the motor latitude to 42 degrees (or the elevation via the inclinometer to 48 degrees). Snug all your bolts up, but don't crank on them, we're not building a tractor .

Ensure that the motor tube is attached to the motor stem without any slop. The bolt has to be really secure. The DG-380 motor will have some natural gear backlash and it will auto-adjust for that.

Attach the dish bracket to the motor tube and ensure that you align the vertical axis of the bracket with the vertical axis of the motor tube. On the GeoSat Pro dish bracket, there is a small window in the back that you can look through and see the seam of the motor tube. Center the seam in that window. That should be sufficient.

Did you notice that there are holes for a third U-Bolt in the dish bracket? Did you only receive two U-Bolts? You might be very happy if you get a third U-Bolt and install it now. It will prevent the bracket from turning on the motor tube if a bad wind catches the dish later.

Since we are installing the GeoSat Pro dish on a downward pointing motor tube, our dish elevation angles are inverted. Follow the GeoSatPro dish manual for how to set this.

However, since you and I have nearly the same latitude position, we can compare our final results to assure that we did it right. We won't be exactly the same, but we will be really close.

When I look at my dish elevation pointer/scale, I see that it is reading approximately 23.75 degrees. What is yours reading? You should be somewhere near this.

RADAR

 

[Babadem]

Baba, I don't know how you're getting to that dish, on a ladder I suppose (feel for ya).
I would go about it just like any other motorized setup. Point dish/motor assembly due south with compass, get close as you can. Use USALS to move dish to nearest satellite to south (which I believe you said 72 for you!!). Adjust motor elevation to what is recommended for your latitude. Then raise or lower the DISH's elevation until you get a signal on 72, which may also involve some tweaking of the east/west setting. I suggested the inclinometer to help you determine whether your dish-face is actually close to the proper elevation for 72W at your site. Stick it right in the center of the dish, verticallly and check. Then remove it, and start seeking the signal. *If you think that house next door might be a problem, start the whole process over on a satellite further west, where you're sure nothing's in the way.

Turbosat, I did everything you suggested, with the exception of the highlighted. Observing the reading from an inclinometer could be a problem because of the precarious position the entire setup posses to my saftey. I may have to invest on a pair of binoculars.........to observe the reading from the ground! Wait a minute! Should the Dish elevation on the inclinometer read the actual elevation of 41.1° for 72° as if it were on a fixed dish?

 

[Babadem]

My calculation for SatelliteAV 1.2m and HH motor at 38.8 degrees Lat:

Set motor elevation to 38.8 Latitude (51 degrees elevation from chart)
Set dish elevation to 19.4 degrees:
30.0 degrees elevation, minus 6.1 degrees Dec angle, minus 4.5 degrees bracket correction factor.

Anyway, that's what I found in my notes. :up

Aren't you supposed to add 4.5° to the reversed Dish elevation? Eg. 29° Elevation + 4.5° compensation to give 33.5 Dish Elevation? Btw, what type of motor are you using?

 

[turbosat]

Babadem to answer the last question-yes. Just as if it were a fixed dish. Sometimes these aiming how-tos get too complicated, I'm from the c-band era and I just tend to do what works. If the dish pointer site says your elevation for 72w should be 30degrees (or whatever) and it just happens to be your true south satellite, then what you read off the inclinometer should be very close to that figure. I just use the elevation setting for the motor and left it at that number, when I installed my 380 motor, the dish elevation and the east/west is where I had to make minor adjustments. Don't know how scientific my approach was but its been tracking fine since April. Having the dish up high like that does make it tougher to tweak, but when you have a giant obstruction that close to you there's not much choice.

 

[Babadem]

My situation is the next door neighbors house, I tried mounting the WS7630 dish to the right of my Orion 76 cm dish (the dish further away in the picture) to get 74W, It would not work.

So I had the set the WS7630 dish back on the deck so I can just about clear my neighbor's house and it worked... for the most part, but I am only getting 46% PQ....so I believe I am still getting some blockage.

My solution would be to just set the dish way back in the yard to clear the houses, but that is 150 feet and it does not justify the extra expense in long coax unless I decided to motorize it.

Thanks. I noticed you have a fixed dish installation, but my issues are with a motorized setup and as you can see from the pictures on my original post, I can't move the setup back from it current location. My only option is to mount it in front of my yard, which I don't find vey appealing at the moment.

 

[knowmiddlename]

Aren't you supposed to add 4.5° to the reversed Dish elevation? Eg. 29° Elevation + 4.5° compensation to give 33.5 Dish Elevation? Btw, what type of motor are you using?

For a reversed bracket, you must subtract 4.5 degrees from the displayed elevation. See attached diagram. I'm using an SG-2100. I think your model uses a 30 degree offset polar tube also, which seems to be the most common angle.

 

[Babadem]

For your location, set the motor latitude to 42 degrees (or the elevation via the inclinometer to 48 degrees). Snug all your bolts up, but don't crank on them, we're not building a tractor .

Did you notice that there are holes for a third U-Bolt in the dish bracket? Did you only receive two U-Bolts? You might be very happy if you get a third U-Bolt and install it now. It will prevent the bracket from turning on the motor tube if a bad wind catches the dish later.RADAR

Since we are installing the GeoSat Pro dish on a downward pointing motor tube, our dish elevation angles are inverted. Follow the GeoSatPro dish manual for how to set this.

However, since you and I have nearly the same latitude position, we can compare our final results to assure that we did it right. We won't be exactly the same, but we will be really close.
When I look at my dish elevation pointer/scale, I see that it is reading approximately 23.75 degrees. What is yours reading? You should be somewhere near this.

Hi RADAR. I had followed steps you stated above but still have some questions and comments below.


So you're saying I shouldn't round up to 42.7 or something like that. Just use the 42° setting on the motor?


I attached some fine grade sand paper to the dish assembly and motor arm. It is pretty tight, so I think. I tried to buy a third U-Bolt from Home depot, and Auto part stores, but they were either too short or too big to fit through the holes.

About inverted downward position installation: This is what I have; Dishpointer has 29° as my dish elevation. So I added 4.5° to it to get 33.5° Dish Elevation. Or should it have been 29° — 4.5° = 24.5° for the correct dish elevation?

 

[turbosat]

quote: This is what I have; Dishpointer has 29° as my dish elevation. So I added 4.5° to it to get 33.5°

That's the part that I believe is confusing you=if the pointer site is saying 29degrees, for 72W, thats what the inclinometer should show you when you check the dish. Good luck-you're close. Don't fall.

 

[AcWxRadar]

Hi RADAR. I had followed steps you stated above but still have some questions and comments below.

So you're saying I shouldn't round up to 42.7 or something like that. Just use the 42° setting on the motor?

B.J. has recommended a procedure to set the motor latitude at a modified angle of 0.6 degrees above your site's latitude. This may help you track the arc better. In doing so, you have to take this much (0.6) off the dish elevation angle as well so that it compensates. I had already set mine up without this modified angle and it was tracking the arc quite well, I didn't want to go back and change it. I intend to set up another motorized dish, when time and whether permits, and I will start with B.J.'s recommendation from scratch. You can try it either way and I believe you will be fine.

I attached some fine grade sand paper to the dish assembly and motor arm. It is pretty tight, so I think. I tried to buy a third U-Bolt from Home depot, and Auto part stores, but they were either too short or too big to fit through the holes.

That is what Walrus did on his GeoSatPro dish. Works just fine!

About inverted downward position installation: This is what I have; Dishpointer has 29° as my dish elevation. So I added 4.5° to it to get 33.5° Dish Elevation. Or should it have been 29° — 4.5° = 24.5° for the correct dish elevation?

29 - 4.5 = 24.5 sounds more accurate. That would put your dish elevation closer to mine (mine being ~23.75) and we being within 0.5 degree in our location's latitude. Keep in mind, I am stating that what I read on my dish elevation scale is ~23.75 degrees. I am not using an inclinometer or any math to figure this angle, this is right off the scale stamped on the dish.

RADAR

 

[Babadem]

B.J. has recommended a procedure to set the motor latitude at a modified angle of 0.6 degrees above your site's latitude. This may help you track the arc better. In doing so, you have to take this much (0.6) off the dish elevation angle as well so that it compensates. I had already set mine up without this modified angle and it was tracking the arc quite well, I didn't want to go back and change it. I intend to set up another motorized dish, when time and whether permits, and I will start with B.J.'s recommendation from scratch. You can try it either way and I believe you will be fine.



That is what Walrus did on his GeoSatPro dish. Works just fine!



29 - 4.5 = 24.5 sounds more accurate. That would put your dish elevation closer to mine (mine being ~23.75) and we being within 0.5 degree in our location's latitude. Keep in mind, I am stating that what I read on my dish elevation scale is ~23.75 degrees. I am not using an inclinometer or any math to figure this angle, this is right off the scale stamped on the dish.

RADAR

OMG! RADAR!!! Thanks for pointing out the obvious. How could I have read the instructions wrong? This could be the source of all my problems........ I was adding 4.5° to my Dish Elevation of 29°, instead of subtracting it. It's quite unfortunate the weather will be really nasty in the next few (snow, rain and very high winds) days. I must try and fix this before it begins to get really nasty outside.

 

[AcWxRadar]

Babadem,

You are welcome. Hope you get everything adjusted to your satisfaction. And I hope you get it accomplished before bad weather hits your area.

I will have to point out a very excellent observation from TurboSat. In post #27 here, he hits it right on the mark!

All these fancy gadgets and on-line angle calculators and mathematical formulas are all fine and dandy, but nothing beats getting out there and simply doing it. Everything else is just redundancy to help you ensure that you are right.

As long as I know that my mast is plumb and stable (sturdy) and I set my motor latitude according to my site latitude, then I can find a signal from something up there. I might take a few minutes to hunt and peck around, but if I know what frequency and symbol rate to dial in, I can find it fairly easily. This is the fun part of the hobby, it's like playing a game!

RADAR

 

[SatelliteAV]

Sorry that I haven't posted a clarifying reply sooner..... New firmware release approval for our satellite receivers and a new model in production this week.....

For Latitude of 43 degrees the DG380 manual suggests that the dish elevation scale be set to approximately 28 degrees. Since you are inverting the bracket on the GEOSATpro 1.2M, subtract the 4.5 degrees from 28 degrees. This equals 23.5 degree dish elevation angle setting on the GEOSATpro 1.2M.

 

[Babadem]

Update:

Yesterday, I finally got the Motorized setup up and running. The problem was the Dish elevation..... I set the reversed dish elevation to about 24.5° (29-4.5) and BOOM the signal appeared. I can now motor from 48.0°W to 129.0°W. Still need some minor dish/LNB adjustments. For instance, adjust the LNB forwards and/or backwards to peak signals. As for the LNB type, I’m using Universal. With the motorized 1.2M setup; when on 125°, I don't receive all the Transponders receivable on my damaged fixed 1.2m (using Linear LNB) on 125.0°W and the signal/ quality are lower on the motorized.

I'm extremely thankfull to all of you that contributed to this thread!:up I will ask more questions as the need arises.

 

[AcWxRadar]

Awesome Babadem!

Always great to hear positive results!

Regarding fine tweaking and peaking: My most desired channels are the RTV feeds on 83.0W AMC 9, which was not so kind to maintain. So I fine tuned my motor and dish to this specific sat and TP. Every other sat and TP is sufficiently strong to keep up a good signal for me when peaked on 83.0W.

Way to go Babadem! :up

RADAR

 

[Babadem]

Awesome Babadem!

Always great to hear positive results!

Regarding fine tweaking and peaking: My most desired channels are the RTV feeds on 83.0W AMC 9, which was not so kind to maintain. So I fine tuned my motor and dish to this specific sat and TP. Every other sat and TP is sufficiently strong to keep up a good signal for me when peaked on 83.0W.

Way to go Babadem! :up

RADAR

RADAR, It felt really good to get the setup working after all the setbacks. Based on the problems that others have experienced pulling in RTV on AMC 9 @ 83.0W to my surprise RTV came in blazing, I believe around 76% Q or so . I will try and peak/fine tune when next there is good weather, otherwise I will do that come spring. Another concern of mine is making those tweaks from such a high position without messing up things more. What reading are you getting for RTV on the coolsat 5000 Ver-004/ AZBox meters? Do you use the coolsat or AZbox to drive the motor?

 

[AcWxRadar]

RADAR, It felt really good to get the setup working after all the setbacks. Based on the problems that others have experienced pulling in RTV on AMC 9 @ 83.0W to my surprise RTV came in blazing, I believe around 76% Q or so . I will try and peak/fine tune when next there is good weather, otherwise I will do that come spring. Another concern of mine is making those tweaks from such a high position without messing up things more. What reading are you getting for RTV on the coolsat 5000 Ver-004/ AZBox meters? Do you use the coolsat or AZbox to drive the motor?

Babadem,

You are doing really well on the RTV TP if you are getting 76% Q.

I get 69-72% Quality with my Coolsat 5K and my AZBox meter reads 51% Quality.

If you are getting 76% (what receiver is that on?) I might say leave it alone if all other sats are coming in good.

I use the AZBox as the master to drive the motor and the Coolsat is the slave (on the loop out). I only hooked it up this way for one purpose and that was so that I could find Hispasat 1C/1D @ 30.0W easier. The meter on my Coolsat is much better to judge the signal from so I panned the motor with the AZBox (in DiSEqC 1.2 mode) while watching the meter response on the 5K.

RADAR

 

[Babadem]

Babadem,

You are doing really well on the RTV TP if you are getting 76% Q.

I get 69-72% Quality with my Coolsat 5K and my AZBox meter reads 51% Quality.

If you are getting 76% (what receiver is that on?) I might say leave it alone if all other sats are coming in good.

I use the AZBox as the master to drive the motor and the Coolsat is the slave (on the loop out). I only hooked it up this way for one purpose and that was so that I could find Hispasat 1C/1D @ 30.0W easier. The meter on my Coolsat is much better to judge the signal from so I panned the motor with the AZBox (in DiSEqC 1.2 mode) while watching the meter response on the 5K.

RADAR

Right now, I'm using the Coolsat 5000 to get myself familiar with using my motor setup, so the RTV reading is from the coolsat. How accurate is the motor Function on the AZBox comapred with the Coolsat? Btw, I'm using a DMX dual output Universal LNB, so both of my receivers are getting independent LNB Signals.