1080p Reception

[jaggreen]

On a VIP722 the only reception is 1080i. Dish offers 1080p on pay per view movies. There is measurable difference in price between 1080i and 1080p, yet Dish says the stations are not transmitting in 1080p format. Is this true, or is this a Dish rip-off? Anyone have any other info on this? Thanks

 

[Dish VIP]

On a VIP722 the only reception is 1080i. Dish offers 1080p on pay per view movies. There is measurable difference in price between 1080i and 1080p, yet Dish says the stations are not transmitting in 1080p format. Is this true, or is this a Dish rip-off? Anyone have any other info on this? Thanks

Dish does not offer 1080p on pay-per-view movies per se. They do offer 1080p on VOD (pre-downloaded to the harddrive via sat.) and on DishOnline (manual downloaded to harddrive via IP.)

Dish is not lying. There are no UHF OTA 1080p transmissions at this time. No cable channels doing 1080p either. Just VOD satellite, VOD internet, or BRD and HD DVD.

 

[Pepper]

If I recall correctly, 1080p is not even included in the ATSC spec and no broadcast station would be likely to implement it, with incompatible receiving equipment already in viewers' homes.

The dish VOD implementation of 1080p is 1080p/24 which can only be reproduced by a subset of those TVs claiming to be 1080p capable.

 

[KAB]

If you are sitting more than 10-12 ft away from your set, you won't tell the difference between i and p.

 

[Dish VIP]

If you are sitting more than 10-12 ft away from your set, you won't tell the difference between i and p.

Unless...

... implementation of 1080p is 1080p/24 which can only be reproduced by a subset of those TVs claiming to be 1080p capable.

I think the difference is in the "blur factor" during fast motion.

 

[MikeD-C05]

If you are sitting more than 10-12 ft away from your set, you won't tell the difference between i and p.

In a small living room like mine I am setting less than 10 feet from my tv.

 

[BuddyBoy]

I can easily tell the difference between 1080i and 1080p from Dish because the bitrate is at least three times higher with their 1080p, so the picture quality is much higher and that is easily visible.

That has nothing to do with 1080i vs. 1080p though, since my TV can extract and reassemble 1080p24 from 1080i60, and being a fixed-pixel display, my set can only display 1080p. In fact, for me it wouldn't matter whether my set was receiving 1080i60 or 1080p24 for film-sourced content - the results on-screen would be the same.

 

[KAB]

In a small living room like mine I am setting less than 10 feet from my tv.

And do you REALLY see the DIF? And if SO, what size? I have a 42" 720P plasma and a 1080P DLP. Under ANY broadcast, the 720 wins!!!!

 

[Smith P.]

I can easily tell the difference between 1080i and 1080p from Dish because the bitrate is at least three times higher with their 1080p, so the picture quality is much higher and that is easily visible.

That has nothing to do with 1080i vs. 1080p though, since my TV can extract and reassemble 1080p24 from 1080i60, and being a fixed-pixel display, my set can only display 1080p. In fact, for me it wouldn't matter whether my set was receiving 1080i60 or 1080p24 for film-sourced content - the results on-screen would be the same.

Actually those a few 1080p titles run at 15 Mbps; if you know what 1080i PPV taken, then you could calculate. Do you know ?

 

[MikeD-C05]

And do you REALLY see the DIF? And if SO, what size? I have a 42" 720P plasma and a 1080P DLP. Under ANY broadcast, the 720 wins!!!!

I have a 42 "Toshiba REGZA lcd tv. It does everything from 480i-1080p. I definitely see a sharper picture on 1080p on Video on demand through DISH and on my blu-ray player as well. Of course it could be placebo effect since I know I am watching true 1080p. It might make it seem to me that the picture looks better.

 

[primetimeguy]

I have a 42 "Toshiba REGZA lcd tv. It does everything from 480i-1080p. I definitely see a sharper picture on 1080p on Video on demand through DISH and on my blu-ray player as well. Of course it could be placebo effect since I know I am watching true 1080p. It might make it seem to me that the picture looks better.

It's because of the bitrate, not the resolution. When watching a film that was shot at 24p there is no difference in 1080p24 or 1080i60, all information is retained in the picture. Unless you have a TV that displays in multiples of 24, then you would have an argument that one can look better, but it's not because of resolution.


I still use a 1080i CRT and am blown away by how good 1080p VOD is from Dish compared to normal PPV or regular programming. It's all about bitrate.

 

[whatchel1]

MPEG 4

If I recall correctly, 1080p is not even included in the ATSC spec and no broadcast station would be likely to implement it, with incompatible receiving equipment already in viewers' homes.

The dish VOD implementation of 1080p is 1080p/24 which can only be reproduced by a subset of those TVs claiming to be 1080p capable.

Plain and simple 1080p is MPEG4, OTA is only allowed to transmit in MPEG 2 1080i or 720p for HD.

 

[BuddyBoy]

Just about every scripted TV show broadcast in HD is 1080p24. It just happens to be packaged inside of 1080i60 for broadcast, but the 1080p24 is fully recoverable at the receiving end. Dish 1080p VOD looks good because of the high bitrate, not because it is 1080p.

 

[BuddyBoy]

Actually those a few 1080p titles run at 15 Mbps; if you know what 1080i PPV taken, then you could calculate. Do you know ?

Most of the PPVs I've recorded were animation so their sizes might not be representative. Also, the only one I recorded recently was Kung Fu Panda, and you'll notice that it is much lower bitrate than anything I recorded earlier.

Kung Fu Panda: 3120297020 bytes/91 minutes = 4.57Mbps

Ratatouille: 6730140184 bytes/111 minutes = 8.08Mbps

Bee Movie: 4581777892 bytes/90 minutes = 6.79Mbps

Pirates of the Carribean - At Worlds End: 12652003320 bytes/168 minutes = 10.04Mbps

All of these are MPEG-4.

 

[MikeD-C05]

It's because of the bitrate, not the resolution. When watching a film that was shot at 24p there is no difference in 1080p24 or 1080i60, all information is retained in the picture. Unless you have a TV that displays in multiples of 24, then you would have an argument that one can look better, but it's not because of resolution.


I still use a 1080i CRT and am blown away by how good 1080p VOD is from Dish compared to normal PPV or regular programming. It's all about bitrate.

What ever the reason may be, It looks better to me in 1080p than 1080i.

 

[Smith P.]

Most of the PPVs I've recorded were animation so their sizes might not be representative. Also, the only one I recorded recently was Kung Fu Panda, and you'll notice that it is much lower bitrate than anything I recorded earlier.

Kung Fu Panda: 3120297020 bytes/91 minutes = 4.57Mbps

Ratatouille: 6730140184 bytes/111 minutes = 8.08Mbps

Bee Movie: 4581777892 bytes/90 minutes = 6.79Mbps

Pirates of the Carribean - At Worlds End: 12652003320 bytes/168 minutes = 10.04Mbps

All of these are MPEG-4.

Would you take back the your statement now ?
"because the bitrate is at least three times higher with their 1080p"

BTW, some HD material selling by Dish compressed by VC-1, that's why you can see it only on 722.

 

[BuddyBoy]

Would you take back the your statement now ?
"because the bitrate is at least three times higher with their 1080p"

Based on the steady decline in bitrate seen on the PPVs I've recorded with my R5000, I'd say 3x is accurate, so no, I won't take back that statement until I start seeing PPVs with bitrates significantly above 6Mbps.

 

[tnsprin]

If I recall correctly, 1080p is not even included in the ATSC spec and no broadcast station would be likely to implement it, with incompatible receiving equipment already in viewers' homes.

The dish VOD implementation of 1080p is 1080p/24 which can only be reproduced by a subset of those TVs claiming to be 1080p capable.

Actually 1080P/24 and 1080P/30 ARE in the ATSC specs. Experimental broadcasts OTA have been done. All ATSC equipped sets INCLUDING Dish receivers can receive them. That does not say that all such tuners will send them on to the display in that mode. Several networks and cable channels have discussed actually using them.

 

[Smith P.]

Based on the steady decline in bitrate seen on the PPVs I've recorded with my R5000, I'd say 3x is accurate, so no, I won't take back that statement until I start seeing PPVs with bitrates significantly above 6Mbps.

Seen numbers in your post#16 I would say - 'at least double', not triple.
Check the ratio: 15:10 or 15:8 - can't see "at least three times", sorry.

 

[BuddyBoy]

Seen numbers in your post#16 I would say - 'at least double', not triple.
Check the ratio: 15:10 or 15:8 - can't see "at least three times", sorry.

The three PPVs with bitrates above 5Mbps were recorded a long time ago (6 months or so) and I don't believe they are representative of current PPV bitrates. I believe 5-6Mbps is more typical now, and I will confirm this over the next couple weeks when I record some more PPVs.