My DirecTV installer did my pole install for free. I think the installer from from Bruister and Assoc. 4 televisions, including an HD set, the AT-9 dish. Everything was free and he took his time and did a great job. Was on site for over 4 hours. He also arrived with everything he needed and took care with wire routings - a very clean job. I tipped him $20.00.
$180 a little high for a pole install?
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WTT0001 said:Read it carefully, $125 including 25ft of "Soft Ground Trenching", In this area you are lucky if it isn't solid rock and if it is within 25ft of the house I'll be happy to drop the price for ya, less work for me, but out of 100+ Dway/Hughes Poles I have done about 5 could get that close to the house, most are on a pole for a reason so @ $3.50 a foot past the 25 we are generally giving a discount ($10 for 3 ft x ? adds up real quick)
Anyway, You are right on the .98 for hughesnet but we do a ton of different .98dishes for many, many different places so that still applies in some cases. Some companies are using different dish types so the "same as a .74" doesn't always apply (plus the .98 and larger are a pain to get up on the pole without help and you have to let the concrete sit longer (and possibly make another trip depending on the size and how quickly it is setting).
That being said, we actually don't install Hughesnet all that much anymore, WB is really a superior product in most respects compared to the normal 7000 (Havn't seen any of the HN (S) stuff yet and yes, superior includes the .98 stuff).
Anyway, See how following something to the letter can be lots of fun
WTT
I can understand trenching past 25 feet or the ground being hard, but I find it hard to believe out of every pole you do 95% of them are not within 25 feet of the house.
On the .98 subject, the customer pays 300 dollars extra for the equipment and installation, however that installation needs be. The pole specs for .74 and .98 are exactly the same. 1.2 and 1.8 will be a foot deeper and a 2.4 being 2 foot deeper, but these are usually used in the Enterprise market and in most cases the company will tell you how and were to mount the pole and equipment in the scope with the price already determined on installation.
And I would love to know how you think WB is a so much more "superior" product than Hughes. Don't tell me that its easier to sell and easier to install so that makes it better BS. I am sure I need not remind you they have almost half the country shut down on installs right now.
On the pole issue, It is simple, If I can get it from the house I will unless the customer wants a pole or needs it (trees or something else), The only time a customer needs a pole and it can be that close in general is if the house is entirely built using materials I can't mount to (Metal Sideing/Roof Etc) or they specifically want it on one, I don't believe in ripping the customer off like a lot of installers seem to like doing and I prefer to hide the dish as much as is possible within reason.
Playing the devils advocate, what is soft ground??? If you consider it no rocks there goes 90% of this area right there, or we could be cruel and say soft ground is loose soil, that would shift almost every pole and burial ever done into the hard ground side.
On the half the country shut down, Last I checked there were only 2 beams shut down (Ohio area is one and I can't remember the other offhand) at least until WB goes up.
That being said, If you are doing the install "by the book" they take about the same amount of time and effort to install, If you cut corners then the Dway is easier because you can cut more that with WB. As to ordering it, yes, WB is easier, WO turn around is less than 1 hour if you call them, Dway is 24 hours + (not that it matters for us, we are scheduled out 3 - 14 days most of the time anyway).
Anyway, the reasons WB is superior in my opinion are:
(1) Tech Support is in america, Repeat, Repeat...
(2) Ping times are lower on a properly working system (600ms on average for WB, 900ms average for Dway depending on the sat and time of day)
(3) WB gives you consistant speeds, Dway may depending on the Sat and time of day.
(4) Cheaper equipment/Install costs, $299 for WB with free standard install (normally $179, Total $478 Normally), Dway is $400 (That is including a $100 rebate and $100 Instant Savings, Normal Cost is $600, Upfront is $500 at the moment)
(5) Personal opinion, I have DSL at home, I can live with WB if I had to, I couldn't with Dway, it is that simple
Thats what I can come up with off the top of my head.
WTT
P.S. I'll give a point back to Dway for offering better plans than WB at the moment (I will also state that WB is concentrated on Home/Home office at the moment), And another point for having a bunch of different sats up there to point at (of course the 1-2 hours to get it recomissioned isn't mentioned but hey ).
Playing the devils advocate, what is soft ground??? If you consider it no rocks there goes 90% of this area right there, or we could be cruel and say soft ground is loose soil, that would shift almost every pole and burial ever done into the hard ground side.
On the half the country shut down, Last I checked there were only 2 beams shut down (Ohio area is one and I can't remember the other offhand) at least until WB goes up.
That being said, If you are doing the install "by the book" they take about the same amount of time and effort to install, If you cut corners then the Dway is easier because you can cut more that with WB. As to ordering it, yes, WB is easier, WO turn around is less than 1 hour if you call them, Dway is 24 hours + (not that it matters for us, we are scheduled out 3 - 14 days most of the time anyway).
Anyway, the reasons WB is superior in my opinion are:
(1) Tech Support is in america, Repeat, Repeat...
(2) Ping times are lower on a properly working system (600ms on average for WB, 900ms average for Dway depending on the sat and time of day)
(3) WB gives you consistant speeds, Dway may depending on the Sat and time of day.
(4) Cheaper equipment/Install costs, $299 for WB with free standard install (normally $179, Total $478 Normally), Dway is $400 (That is including a $100 rebate and $100 Instant Savings, Normal Cost is $600, Upfront is $500 at the moment)
(5) Personal opinion, I have DSL at home, I can live with WB if I had to, I couldn't with Dway, it is that simple
Thats what I can come up with off the top of my head.
WTT
P.S. I'll give a point back to Dway for offering better plans than WB at the moment (I will also state that WB is concentrated on Home/Home office at the moment
), And another point for having a bunch of different sats up there to point at (of course the 1-2 hours to get it recomissioned isn't mentioned but hey ).
WTT0001 said:
http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?p=641561#post641561
um yhea
WTT0001 said:
You can cut more corners with DWay, what are you talking about? They both take 2 lines in. Plus Dway has to be crosspolled which can sometimes be a pain in the ass. WB you only have to get a signal and your good.
Dway is not 24 hours plus on the WO neither, who told you that?
I was talking about Wildblue being easier to sell to a customer because of the lower price.[/QUOTE]
WTT0001 said:
You want to talk about a superior product ok.
1. Number of operational satellites: WB 1 Hughes 9
2. Manufactures satellite system equipment: WB no Hughes yes
3. Manufactures communications satellites: WB no Hughes Yes
4. Services US government and US military: WB no Hughes Yes
5. Services large-business, enterprise (Fortune 1000) customers: WB no Hughes Yes. Hughes has 95% of the VSat enterprise market. oh and did I mention they service the US government?
6. Number of network operations centers (NOC) WB 1 Hughes 3
7. Owner and manager of network operations center (NOC) WB no Hughes Yes
8. Installation available nationwide: WB no Hughes Yes
9. Installation available on a Globle market: WB no Hughes Yes.
10. Financing available for residential plans: WB no Hughes Yes.
11. Proprietary network security and encryption infrastructure: WB no Hughes Yes.
12. Uses Internet Protocol Over Satellite standard (IPos). WB no Hughes Yes.
13. System warranty (Parts). WB 12 months parts 90 days labor Hughes 15 months parts and labor.
14. Repair warranty service calls (Labor) WB $75/hr after 90 days of service, Hughes Free.
15. Fair Access Policy (FAP) Maximum Recover Time: WB 30 day refresh Hughes 8 Hours.
16. Satisfaction Guarantee, Return Policy: WB 30 days but only for Particapation Retailers and they charge you $79.95 to come out and take it down.
Hughes 30 days.17. Mailbox size: Hughes 2,000mb WB 25 mb.
18. On the FAP When comparing the Professional version of both which is thye same price per month. Wildblue gives you 12,000 MB per month, 30 x 24 = 720 hours per month 12,000 MB / 720 Hours = 16.67 MB per hour. Hughes gives you 350 MB in a 4 hour perion, 350 / 4 Hours = 87.5 MB per hour.
19. Hughes offers 2 options on equipment. The larger dish option can either be used with home pakages to improve on signal quality which helps in extreme weather, or in upgrading to a small office or business internet plan which Wildblue does not offer.
20. Hughes offers a static IP option which is essental in VPN usage.
21. Hughes does have the capability for VOiP, Wildblue... um yhea
22. With Hughes, have you heard about Spaceway? www.spaceway.com
[/QUOTE]
WTT0001 said:P.S. I'll give a point back to Dway for offering better plans than WB at the moment (I will also state that WB is concentrated on Home/Home office at the moment
Again more misinformation. It has rarely taken me over 1 hour to complete a satellite transponder change.
What else do you have. You gave me the mediocre info. What are some technical aspects that you can give me?
Been a while since I checked on beams shut down, still not half the country but 6 is more than the 2 I had heard last. Your point
Dway doesn't inspect jobs, half the jobs I have done service calls on for other installers were not grounded, dishes were not solidly mounted, sloppy cable runs, etc. WB inspects jobs and they will call you back to fix them and drop you if you don't (We've had it happen to at least 2 companies/installers in this area alone). My comment still stands. As to the crosspol, if the pole is level and you set the skew on the dish to the area it needs to be in and peak it out with the birdog or any other decent meter, you will pass as is 90% of the time (and by pass I mean solid pass, nothing low). The other 10% of the time it should take less than 10 min. using the OPI. Even on this one.
As I said, WO time doesn't matter. Customer could care less.
1. Already covered in last post
2. Matters why??? We were talking about end user performance.
3. See 2
4. Last Post
5. Last Post
6. Last I checked, WB 5, Hughes 3?, WB has them in Riverside CA, Cheyenne, WY, Laredo, TX, Syracuse, NY, and Winnipeg, Canada
7. Matters why??? EU performance again
8. Maybe but clarification, WB covers the whole US although there are some areas installers don't cover (Distance/Certification/Lack of installers in the area)
9. Agree with you here
10. I'll argue this one by stating $300 vs $600, if you can't afford the $300 up front then how will you afford $99 a month over 12 (15?) months
11. Is that why it is sooo slow?
12. WB uses Docsis (? Spelling, fairly common standard I would think (cable)) Who is using the more compatable protocal?
13. That may be the official stance but I can tell you that we are doing service calls for people 8 - 12 months later that WB is still covering. Still, Dway wins this one.
14. Wrong comparison, correct comparison would be out of warranty to out of warranty, WB = Standard Service Call ($59 - $99 depending on distance), Hnet = $59 - $99 depending on distance.
15. Yes, but if you need to download a 600 meg file, Hnet = Dial up for a long time, WB = normal speeds all the way through (assuming you are under your monthly limit, which you should be)
16. The 30 days applies period as far as I know, It is in the agreement, there shouldn't be any dealers that won't honor it, if there are then you should be talking to WB. As for the charge to come take it down, Gas and time to run out the 50 - 100 miles, yes, someone better be paying for it.
17. I would agree with this one but for normal usage 25mb is plenty (my verizon account is 10mb and I havn't had a problem yet), If it is really an issue i'll send you a gmail invite
18. Wrong #s, WBs pro pak is 17Gb a month, Select is 12Gb, Value is 7.5Gb, That being said see point 15 for the main point, Hughes is 8 hours or 4 hours, in point 15 you state 8, here you state 4???. Minor detail so don't worry about it too much, bottom line is that if you spread your useage out, neither fap should matter, Hughes has more theoretical usage, but if you need that 600mb file now, WB wins
19. Covered in the last post, WB is concentrated on home usage, In general, downtime is less than 45min (15 in reality), if it is that mission critical, spend more and go with a small office or enterprise system.
20. As of right now that is correct, WB is planning on it in the future (WB1?)
21. From what I hear, neither is great.
22. Reality check, until WB came out they had canned it and were going all TV, Now they need it to compete, amazing
All that really did was point out minor details, Again, back to my original point, Overall, I can live with WB, Not Hnet, We make more money selling Hnet, but we sell a ton more WB. We have 150+ WB customers, as of last check 4 canceled after they were installed (1 was that the customers wife didn't like the dish no matter where it was and pulled it down a day later, another canceled 2 days after it was put in because Vonage wasn't working, reactivated 2 weeks later and finally canceled 4 months down the road due to money problems, another because he couldn't deal with the lag of satellite (was expecting cable type speeds), and the last because they only ordered it for a 7 day festival). Pretty good stats if you ask me.
WTT
P.S. I have only had one transponder change take less than 1 hour total (from the time I called on the phone to the time the system runs through the final registration) and that was done in 15min total, Every other time it has been at least 15 - 30 mins on the phone, 30 min to 1 hour for the noc to get it set and another 10 to run through the registration again. The last 2 times I had to do it (about 1 month ago and about a week before that) It took 2 hours (given, they changed satellites the day before) and 1 hour 15 mins. If it generally takes less for you, awesome, maybe it is just my luck
Dway doesn't inspect jobs, half the jobs I have done service calls on for other installers were not grounded, dishes were not solidly mounted, sloppy cable runs, etc. WB inspects jobs and they will call you back to fix them and drop you if you don't (We've had it happen to at least 2 companies/installers in this area alone). My comment still stands. As to the crosspol, if the pole is level and you set the skew on the dish to the area it needs to be in and peak it out with the birdog or any other decent meter, you will pass as is 90% of the time (and by pass I mean solid pass, nothing low). The other 10% of the time it should take less than 10 min. using the OPI. Even on this one.
As I said, WO time doesn't matter. Customer could care less.
1. Already covered in last post
2. Matters why??? We were talking about end user performance.
3. See 2
4. Last Post
5. Last Post
6. Last I checked, WB 5, Hughes 3?, WB has them in Riverside CA, Cheyenne, WY, Laredo, TX, Syracuse, NY, and Winnipeg, Canada
7. Matters why??? EU performance again
8. Maybe but clarification, WB covers the whole US although there are some areas installers don't cover (Distance/Certification/Lack of installers in the area)
9. Agree with you here
10. I'll argue this one by stating $300 vs $600, if you can't afford the $300 up front then how will you afford $99 a month over 12 (15?) months
11. Is that why it is sooo slow?
12. WB uses Docsis (? Spelling, fairly common standard I would think (cable)) Who is using the more compatable protocal?
13. That may be the official stance but I can tell you that we are doing service calls for people 8 - 12 months later that WB is still covering. Still, Dway wins this one.
14. Wrong comparison, correct comparison would be out of warranty to out of warranty, WB = Standard Service Call ($59 - $99 depending on distance), Hnet = $59 - $99 depending on distance.
15. Yes, but if you need to download a 600 meg file, Hnet = Dial up for a long time, WB = normal speeds all the way through (assuming you are under your monthly limit, which you should be)
16. The 30 days applies period as far as I know, It is in the agreement, there shouldn't be any dealers that won't honor it, if there are then you should be talking to WB. As for the charge to come take it down, Gas and time to run out the 50 - 100 miles, yes, someone better be paying for it.
17. I would agree with this one but for normal usage 25mb is plenty (my verizon account is 10mb and I havn't had a problem yet), If it is really an issue i'll send you a gmail invite
18. Wrong #s, WBs pro pak is 17Gb a month, Select is 12Gb, Value is 7.5Gb, That being said see point 15 for the main point, Hughes is 8 hours or 4 hours, in point 15 you state 8, here you state 4???. Minor detail so don't worry about it too much, bottom line is that if you spread your useage out, neither fap should matter, Hughes has more theoretical usage, but if you need that 600mb file now, WB wins
19. Covered in the last post, WB is concentrated on home usage, In general, downtime is less than 45min (15 in reality), if it is that mission critical, spend more and go with a small office or enterprise system.
20. As of right now that is correct, WB is planning on it in the future (WB1?)
21. From what I hear, neither is great.
22. Reality check, until WB came out they had canned it and were going all TV, Now they need it to compete, amazing
All that really did was point out minor details, Again, back to my original point, Overall, I can live with WB, Not Hnet, We make more money selling Hnet, but we sell a ton more WB. We have 150+ WB customers, as of last check 4 canceled after they were installed (1 was that the customers wife didn't like the dish no matter where it was and pulled it down a day later, another canceled 2 days after it was put in because Vonage wasn't working, reactivated 2 weeks later and finally canceled 4 months down the road due to money problems, another because he couldn't deal with the lag of satellite (was expecting cable type speeds), and the last because they only ordered it for a 7 day festival). Pretty good stats if you ask me.
WTT
P.S. I have only had one transponder change take less than 1 hour total (from the time I called on the phone to the time the system runs through the final registration) and that was done in 15min total, Every other time it has been at least 15 - 30 mins on the phone, 30 min to 1 hour for the noc to get it set and another 10 to run through the registration again. The last 2 times I had to do it (about 1 month ago and about a week before that) It took 2 hours (given, they changed satellites the day before) and 1 hour 15 mins. If it generally takes less for you, awesome, maybe it is just my luck
WTT0001 said:Been a while since I checked on beams shut down, still not half the country but 6 is more than the 2 I had heard last. Your point
Dway doesn't inspect jobs, half the jobs I have done service calls on for other installers were not grounded, dishes were not solidly mounted, sloppy cable runs, etc. WB inspects jobs and they will call you back to fix them and drop you if you don't (We've had it happen to at least 2 companies/installers in this area alone). My comment still stands. As to the crosspol, if the pole is level and you set the skew on the dish to the area it needs to be in and peak it out with the birdog or any other decent meter, you will pass as is 90% of the time (and by pass I mean solid pass, nothing low). The other 10% of the time it should take less than 10 min. using the OPI. Even on this one.
As I said, WO time doesn't matter. Customer could care less.
1. Already covered in last post
2. Matters why??? We were talking about end user performance.
3. See 2
4. Last Post
5. Last Post
6. Last I checked, WB 5, Hughes 3?, WB has them in Riverside CA, Cheyenne, WY, Laredo, TX, Syracuse, NY, and Winnipeg, Canada
7. Matters why??? EU performance again
8. Maybe but clarification, WB covers the whole US although there are some areas installers don't cover (Distance/Certification/Lack of installers in the area)
9. Agree with you here
10. I'll argue this one by stating $300 vs $600, if you can't afford the $300 up front then how will you afford $99 a month over 12 (15?) months
11. Is that why it is sooo slow?
12. WB uses Docsis (? Spelling, fairly common standard I would think (cable)) Who is using the more compatable protocal?
13. That may be the official stance but I can tell you that we are doing service calls for people 8 - 12 months later that WB is still covering. Still, Dway wins this one.
14. Wrong comparison, correct comparison would be out of warranty to out of warranty, WB = Standard Service Call ($59 - $99 depending on distance), Hnet = $59 - $99 depending on distance.
15. Yes, but if you need to download a 600 meg file, Hnet = Dial up for a long time, WB = normal speeds all the way through (assuming you are under your monthly limit, which you should be)
16. The 30 days applies period as far as I know, It is in the agreement, there shouldn't be any dealers that won't honor it, if there are then you should be talking to WB. As for the charge to come take it down, Gas and time to run out the 50 - 100 miles, yes, someone better be paying for it.
17. I would agree with this one but for normal usage 25mb is plenty (my verizon account is 10mb and I havn't had a problem yet), If it is really an issue i'll send you a gmail invite
18. Wrong #s, WBs pro pak is 17Gb a month, Select is 12Gb, Value is 7.5Gb, That being said see point 15 for the main point, Hughes is 8 hours or 4 hours, in point 15 you state 8, here you state 4???. Minor detail so don't worry about it too much, bottom line is that if you spread your useage out, neither fap should matter, Hughes has more theoretical usage, but if you need that 600mb file now, WB wins
19. Covered in the last post, WB is concentrated on home usage, In general, downtime is less than 45min (15 in reality), if it is that mission critical, spend more and go with a small office or enterprise system.
20. As of right now that is correct, WB is planning on it in the future (WB1?)
21. From what I hear, neither is great.
22. Reality check, until WB came out they had canned it and were going all TV, Now they need it to compete, amazing
All that really did was point out minor details, Again, back to my original point, Overall, I can live with WB, Not Hnet, We make more money selling Hnet, but we sell a ton more WB. We have 150+ WB customers, as of last check 4 canceled after they were installed (1 was that the customers wife didn't like the dish no matter where it was and pulled it down a day later, another canceled 2 days after it was put in because Vonage wasn't working, reactivated 2 weeks later and finally canceled 4 months down the road due to money problems, another because he couldn't deal with the lag of satellite (was expecting cable type speeds), and the last because they only ordered it for a 7 day festival). Pretty good stats if you ask me.
WTT
P.S. I have only had one transponder change take less than 1 hour total (from the time I called on the phone to the time the system runs through the final registration) and that was done in 15min total, Every other time it has been at least 15 - 30 mins on the phone, 30 min to 1 hour for the noc to get it set and another 10 to run through the registration again. The last 2 times I had to do it (about 1 month ago and about a week before that) It took 2 hours (given, they changed satellites the day before) and 1 hour 15 mins. If it generally takes less for you, awesome, maybe it is just my luck
Piss match Piss match!!!! Its nice to argue with someone who is civil.
After this post lets take this were it needs to be in the satellite internet forum so we can have more comments. These people looking for a pole price could care less about this. If you look at the map I posted below that shows the population density of the US its and of the one with the beams shut down it is clear that 50 percent of the population right now is down.
The birdog does not help on the cross poll, it only shows you if you have found the bird or not. Some satellites even if you set the skew right it still can be a pain in the ass to get a passing score. Hor 1, AMC 3, and sometimes IA8 are hard to pass here. Sometimes like on Hor 1 we will have to put a spacer in the skew plate to make it pass.
Hughes does check jobs also. We are a retailer but we also have a contract with P10 and our jobs are checked often.
2. Hughes has the technology to produce equipment while WB relies on a third party houses. I know Hughes has recently started sending out dishes made by Raven and I will say "they suck"
4. 5. Hughes supplies service to major corporations. "Chevron, McDonald's, Dollar Tree, Cendent Corp (Days Inn, Ramada Inn, Super 8, etc.)" also the US government. Basically if you see a VSat on top of a building its Hughes.
6. As far as I can tell you are right on the NOC issue.
8. There are some spot were WB beams cannot reach.
10. Hughes gives an incentive if you finace the equipment, about 75% of people do this.
12. IPoS the only one approved by TIA, ETSI, and ITU standards.
15. Just like the Email issue, you can use a file manager that can pause the download. When do you download anything over 100 MB that is not a movie?
16. A non-refundable $79.95 uninstall fee will apply at the time of termination. Our 30-Day satisfaction guarantee is offered by participating retailers only.
End Date: The first 30 days after installation of the WildBlue service. http://www.wildblue.com/legal/disclaimer.jsp#retailer
18. I was comparing the plan that is the same price and same speed.
19. As you know WB uses Ka band which is more sustainable to rain fade. Anything over 11 GHz has a great potential to rain fade the higher the more. Ka band 18 to 40 GHz, KU band 12 to 18 GHz. C band is 4 to 6 GHz and is rarely affected by rainfade. That is the reason why you are not suppose to touch the reflector on a WB dish and a SW dish.
21. I have no experience with the 7740 so that's all I can say.
22. Hughes did not can the first two Spaceway satellites. Directv had the option for Spaceway 1 and 2 because they owned a great deal of Hughes stock and jumped on the bandwagon so they could offer HD Lil. There are a total of 3 Spaceway birds going up for sure and Hughes has the option for a 4th.
You say you have 150 customers on WB. We do about 150 Dway installs per week.
On the Ping issue, what are you really going to do with anything over 500 anyway? It does not really matter if its 600 or 900.
Also with a WB system you cannot travel. A Hughes allows you to go from place to place which can help in Emergency situations. www.groundcontrol.com
Your turn.
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They are No 1 in customer satisfaction by JD power so that price must be reasonable and justified.damaged said:
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