2 Days & a wake-up - is evvvvvverybody happy?

[leo250]

I want to see if I am getting this correct...When I call Dish @ 12:00 midnight on February 1, the following will happen: I will be told that I will be able to swap my 811 for a 211 sometime in June of 2008.
The CSR's I have talked to at Dish assure me that the above won't happen and that I will get my 211 in time for the Olympics.
My question is what recourse, if any, we Dish subscribers have if things don't go the way the CSR's think they will.

 

[Weezknight]

I'll be as happy then and I am now. There is nothing in the new HD offerings that I absolutely have to have. Certainly not worth the extra $ over the $9.99 HD-Pak. I'm mainly interested in getting the rest of the HD networks (ABC, NBC, FOX), until they are available to me I don't plan on making any programming changes.
NightRyder

I'm in the same boat as you. I like my AT180 with my HD-Pak. If I want to keep all the channels I have I would have to go with HD Gold which becomes an extra $10.00 or so added onto my monthly bill. My only choice is to drop back a level (not going to happen due to Fox Soccer Channel) or stand with what I've got (the more likely scenario).

I've really heard nothing good about VOOM, so in the end UHD and ESPN2-HD are the only things I'd be paying out the extra money for.

 

[DWS44]

I myself cant wait to call to order it. If you dont want to pay for the upgrade, then you dont have to watch the new channels. It is simple. Dont complain about it.

While I can agree with some of your points...these are things early adopters often have to deal with...there is one overriding fact that I disagree with. If such equipment that you "can't wait to call and order" were ACTUALLY GOING TO BE AVAILABLE (i.e. 622) on the day the channels are made available, that would be one thing...but that isnt the case here. You have to have equipment that will be in VERY LIMITED supply. Add this to the fact that the channels arent really MPEG4 to begin with, meaning there is no technical reason why our current HD receivers couldn;t display these channels makes it a very insulting situation in how E* is treating us.

 

[jerryez]

I have the new Vip211, I leased it from Dish. When I called in to get it activated, the HD CSR was curious where I got the 211. He said that their memo said not to lease them until Feb 1st. He was susprised that I had one, but activated it anyway, but said that I would have to call in Feb 1st to add the new HD programming.

 

[bymyhand]

I did notice that they will increase my price 20 dollars a month for the new packages. Which I think is a little high. I don't think the 5 other HD channels are worth other 5 dollars a month. But I think the best money saver would be to setup a tier system biased on category. I could care less about sports channels and family channels that cost so much money to dish. But since there is one channel I really want I have to get all of the channels. I would rather they do it by category. Like a sports tier, a learning tier, a family tier, a movie tier, and so on. Like Cox already does. Doing that would put less demand on ESPN and other high priced channels which might actually bring down their prices. Like supply and demand. Honesty, for how many channels I actually watch my bill should be like 30 bucks with an extra 15 dollars for HD channels. That’s a lot cheaper then what I will have to spend with the new pricing packages.

 

[KeithInDallas]

I agree to a point about the current HD customers that bought their equipment this past year and now have equipment that will not pickup some of the new channels. However I do agree with what E* is doing with the new packages.

1. Only *the new* channels will be mpeg-4. you will not be losing any content. If you want *new* content is the only reason you have to upgrade

2. Knowing that Mpeg-4 was coming down the pike, you *chose* to purchase an mpeg-2 reciever anyway.

3. By E* keeping all new content mpeg-4 it gives customers a desire to upgrade to the new technology, whereby speeding up the ultimate transition to everything being mpeg-4

I (like most of us on here) knew that MPEG-4 was coming. They have been counting it down for some time now. I chose to wait out getting a mpeg-2 HD box because I knew this very thing would be happening. Now I will call them in a few days and order mpeg-4. I do feel sorry for the people that did not know about mpeg-4 coming and did get the mpeg-2 boxes. However most of those people will not even realize that this new stuff is out. I feel for your position but technology does evolve and unfortunately it does burn people.

IE: If you buy a Dell computer today, next week there is a new model for the same price with more features... should Dell send you a new computer?

I have XM. This past year they came out with a new version of their reciever... Do they send out the new recievers with the latest features?

CC & Best Buy, etc are still selling analog TV's that eveyone knows will be shut off soon... What about those people?

What about the people who buy a 2006 GM car, when the 2007 models will have better gas mileage and a lower price?

Windows Vista is coming very soon, however many, many of the new pc's being sold today dont have a chance of being able to run it....

These are all similar situations to what we have here. MPEG-4 is going to happen whether anyone likes it or not... I myself cant wait to call to order it. If you dont want to pay for the upgrade, then you dont have to watch the new channels. It is simple. Dont complain about it.

I don't agree about the similarity of the examples you cite.

The CEO of Echostar told me (in the November '05 Charley Chat) that MPEG4 was a long way off, not ready, and that his company was NOT going to be using MPEG4 for some time to come. Earlier in the year E* promised to have all the Voom channels up by the end of 2005. Neither turned out to be true.

The CEO of Dell didn't tell me that the new technology wasn't ready and that he wasn't going to use it 2 months before he annouced it's rollout.

The CEO of GM didn't tell me next year's models weren't going to be sold for another year. The current model car will be able to use new highways being built and opened in the future. My 942 cannot!

The CEO of the maker of the computers that are being sold today that won't run Vista didn't tell me that they would be able to run it before I bought the computer.

Best Buy didn't tell me the analog TV was actually their top-of-the-line HD TV.

I don't expect E* to give me a new receiver because it has new hard drive capacity, or has 2 HD feeds, or some other kind of upgraded feature. However I do expect 2 things:
1) If the CEO tells me something, I should be able to believe him. He should at least make a good faith effort to keep his word. His "promise" being untrue 2 months later is not a good faith effort.

2) I subscribe to satellite TV. I subscribe to HD satelitte TV. My top-of-the-line receiver should be able to receive the TV channels. Period. Being able to receive the channels on the receiver should NOT be considered a "feature." It should be the standard expectation for every product they sell. I don't expect any new features for free. I do expect to be able to receive the TV channles on their top-of-the-line equipment for more than 2-4 months. I don't expect a car maker to come install a GPS navagation unit in my 2005 model because the 2006 models have it. I do expect to be able to drive on ALL the same roads.

So E* got me. As a long time customer, I found out they were happy to "burn" me. So I will stick with what I have, receive the same channels I've been getting, and remember that when I see someone else offers me a better deal (Verizon was burying the FiOS cable down my street last week) I have no past postive feelings that will keep me with them. I am willing to pay for a good product, but I am not willing to get screwed around by a big company. I'm sure they won't miss me. But at some point us pissed off people will hit critical mass. Then they will adjust their business practices. They have proven (at least to me) that they will not do the right thing just for the sake of doing the right thing. So they will either succeed or fail as a company based on how many people are happy with them or pissed off at them. Count me as the latter.

 

[waltinvt]

I don't agree about the similarity of the examples you cite.

The CEO of Echostar told me (in the November '05 Charley Chat) that MPEG4 was a long way off, not ready, and that his company was NOT going to be using MPEG4 for some time to come. Earlier in the year E* promised to have all the Voom channels up by the end of 2005. Neither turned out to be true.

The CEO of Dell didn't tell me that the new technology wasn't ready and that he wasn't going to use it 2 months before he annouced it's rollout.

The CEO of GM didn't tell me next year's models weren't going to be sold for another year. The current model car will be able to use new highways being built and opened in the future. My 942 cannot!

The CEO of the maker of the computers that are being sold today that won't run Vista didn't tell me that they would be able to run it before I bought the computer.

Best Buy didn't tell me the analog TV was actually their top-of-the-line HD TV.

I don't expect E* to give me a new receiver because it has new hard drive capacity, or has 2 HD feeds, or some other kind of upgraded feature. However I do expect 2 things:
1) If the CEO tells me something, I should be able to believe him. He should at least make a good faith effort to keep his word. His "promise" being untrue 2 months later is not a good faith effort.

2) I subscribe to satellite TV. I subscribe to HD satelitte TV. My top-of-the-line receiver should be able to receive the TV channels. Period. Being able to receive the channels on the receiver should NOT be considered a "feature." It should be the standard expectation for every product they sell. I don't expect any new features for free. I do expect to be able to receive the TV channles on their top-of-the-line equipment for more than 2-4 months. I don't expect a car maker to come install a GPS navagation unit in my 2005 model because the 2006 models have it. I do expect to be able to drive on ALL the same roads.

So E* got me. As a long time customer, I found out they were happy to "burn" me. So I will stick with what I have, receive the same channels I've been getting, and remember that when I see someone else offers me a better deal (Verizon was burying the FiOS cable down my street last week) I have no past postive feelings that will keep me with them. I am willing to pay for a good product, but I am not willing to get screwed around by a big company. I'm sure they won't miss me. But at some point us pissed off people will hit critical mass. Then they will adjust their business practices. They have proven (at least to me) that they will not do the right thing just for the sake of doing the right thing. So they will either succeed or fail as a company based on how many people are happy with them or pissed off at them. Count me as the latter.

Very well articulated.

 

[tunagimp]

I don't agree about the similarity of the examples you cite.

snip....

So E* got me. As a long time customer, I found out they were happy to "burn" me. So I will stick with what I have, receive the same channels I've been getting, and remember that when I see someone else offers me a better deal (Verizon was burying the FiOS cable down my street last week) I have no past postive feelings that will keep me with them. I am willing to pay for a good product, but I am not willing to get screwed around by a big company. I'm sure they won't miss me. But at some point us pissed off people will hit critical mass. Then they will adjust their business practices. They have proven (at least to me) that they will not do the right thing just for the sake of doing the right thing. So they will either succeed or fail as a company based on how many people are happy with them or pissed off at them. Count me as the latter.

Thanks for posting this.

It's the best rebuttal to the "Car/Computer/Other Electronic Device/You should have known better than buy what was obviously an obsolete receiver" argument I've read.

I've tried to do my part by posting a fake "For Sale" ad for my 942 over on fleabay which contained the details of what was known about the MPEG-4 conversion (Funny, my 942 never sold ). That ad--if I'm to believe my emails--stopped at least a few people from making what appears to be a several hundred dollar mistake.

What (in part) made me do such a silly thing was when I noticed at least one person who posts on this board sold his 942 well after the Charlie Chat with not a hint of what Charlie said about MPEG-4.

Shame on them and shame on the "dealers" who were likewise selling this machine without informing their "sucker." At least E* gives you a 30-day money back guarantee.

I think the fun will really begin when the poor saps that don't read this or other boards become aware of the limitations of their brand-new (YMMV) 942. But then, we may never hear about them.

 

[riffjim4069]

I think the fun will really begin when the poor saps that don't read this or other boards become aware of the limitations of their brand-new (YMMV) 942. But then, we may never hear about them.

In times of despair people turn to religion, alcohol and SatelliteGuys...not necessarily in that order and certainly not mutually exclusive. I expect to see a lot of new members here in the coming weeks.

 

[FreddyvsJasonvsAsh]

I think all of this will backfire...but oh well I got my 211's already...so we'll see

 

[Strikeldr]

I exchanged my two 811's for two 211's on Friday, but not with the help of E*. After multiple calls and an email to the CEO, which was not responded to, I started calling local installers in my area in an attempt to upgrade. I found one that was willing to upgrade both of my receivers. It cost me $100 total. What I also found out is by upgrading before Feb 1, I am only bound to a one year contract. Starting Feb 1, all upgrades will bind you to 18 months.

 

[calikarim]

Dish is run by morons

I am a dish subscriber for last 7 yers and i am aghast at the incompetance of its leadership. The ceo has no clue when mpeg 4 is coming and then gives misleading statements about the need for new receiver. Millions buy MPEG 2 receivers based on his word and get screwed. I am out $700 for my Dish 6000, another $699 for my 942 which i have had for a few months, and now another $200 for upgrading to MPEG 4, 622 receivers, just to watch hd, and they are still transmitting in mPeg 2, cheating receivers in to thinking that it is an MPEG 4 signal, that is just the reciever end of it.

I had a dish 5000, then i have to add 61.5, now we all have to get Dish 1000, upgrade all out switches, first i had Dish 21, then i upgraded to Dish 64 switches, now we have to get Dish pro equipment get DP 44 switches.

Am i crazy or does this sound ridiculous to get HD> I miss Voom soooooooooooooooooooooooooo much

If you HD enthusiactic fans had supported voom , we wouldn't have to deal with this nonsense.




Dish management please change your policy, any MBA student will tell you this is ridiculous

 

[riffjim4069]

Although I've been a computer guy for the past 24 years, I just remembered I have an MBA...just blew the dust off that thing so I guess I'm somewhat qualified to speak on this topic. Anyway, Charlie mentioned MPEG-4 would be a "measured" upgrade. I took that to mean...unlike D*, they were going to make the HD customers foot as much of the HD upgrade bills as possible. In other words, if you really wanted MPEG-4 then you were going to pay for it and commit to it. This measured response would be gauged by the amount of HD customer screaming-->compared to the number of HD customer churn. Too much churn and they will address the issue with another measured response. However, if the HD customers complain without jumping ship then don't expect a change in their MPEG-4 upgrade policies. I also believe that E* is flying by the seat of their pants regarding MPEG-4. Just my observation.

Unfortunately, there are very few real HD choices available to most of us HD customers...and Charlie knows it! Most people would drop DishHD in a heartbeat if they were in a FiOS TV area, but those numbers are few and far between right now. CableTV is ramping up their HD offerings, but most of them certainly can't compete with DishHD at present.

Charlie may very well be measuring the raw number$ and not HD customer satisfaction at this point. Mistake? It may very well be in my opinion, but Charlie is certainly a top-notch business man when it comes to the bottom line.

 

[waltinvt]

Although I've been a computer guy for the past 24 years, I just remembered I have an MBA...just blew the dust off that thing so I guess I'm somewhat qualified to speak on this topic. Anyway, Charlie mentioned MPEG-4 would be a "measured" upgrade. I took that to mean...unlike D*, they were going to make the HD customers foot as much of the HD upgrade bills as possible. In other words, if you really wanted MPEG-4 then you were going to pay for it and commit to it. This measured response would be gauged by the amount of HD customer screaming-->compared to the number of HD customer churn. Too much churn and they will address the issue with another measured response. However, if the HD customers complain without jumping ship then don't expect a change in their MPEG-4 upgrade policies. I also believe that E* is flying by the seat of their pants regarding MPEG-4. Just my observation.

Unfortunately, there are very few real HD choices available to most of us HD customers...and Charlie knows it! Most people would drop DishHD in a heartbeat if they were in a FiOS TV area, but those numbers are few and far between right now. CableTV is ramping up their HD offerings, but most of them certainly can't compete with DishHD at present.

Charlie may very well be measuring the raw number$ and not HD customer satisfaction at this point. Mistake? It may very well be in my opinion, but Charlie is certainly a top-notch business man when it comes to the bottom line.

That's the best take on the subject I've read in a long time.

The only thing I'd add is to those that are happy with Dish's latest policies, be patient because it's only a matter of time before Charlie crosses your ouch line too.

Nothing will change "E's" (or "D's") policy except $$$ and until this group can confront "E" as a group and be prepared for short term sacrifice, we'll have little influence on Dish or anyone else.

 

[jerryez]

I paid $50 for a $299 Vip211. Others will pay $99 for a $699 622. If that is not a good deal, what do you people want. The only exception that I see is for those that paid FULL price for a 942 in the last 90 should get an upgrade for free.

I have had my 811 for two years and only paid $149 for it. These prices do not even cover manufacturing cost, let alone research and development. realizing that they should have spent more on R & D.

 

[kokomogator]

Wouldn't it make more sense for Dish to have allowed everyone to receive the new channels so that they could charge all of the additional fees? Doesn't make them any more $$$ if they can't sell the new pricing tiers. If they provided it MPEG2 but you had to automatically upgrade to the new packages, at least until they could work out the kinks in the MPEG4 and provide them to all, they would at least be making the additional funds......whatever....

 

[kokomogator]

I'll be as happy then and I am now. There is nothing in the new HD offerings that I absolutely have to have. Certainly not worth the extra $ over the $9.99 HD-Pak. I'm mainly interested in getting the rest of the HD networks (ABC, NBC, FOX), until they are available to me I don't plan on making any programming changes.


NightRyder

Amen Brother!!

 

[waltinvt]

Wouldn't it make more sense for Dish to have allowed everyone to receive the new channels so that they could charge all of the additional fees? Doesn't make them any more $$$ if they can't sell the new pricing tiers. If they provided it MPEG2 but you had to automatically upgrade to the new packages, at least until they could work out the kinks in the MPEG4 and provide them to all, they would at least be making the additional funds......whatever....

As of this afternoon, Dish is still saying (and yes, I'm paraphrasing) they don't care what you want or how long you've been a customer or how much your Dish bill is every month, they have "doctored" up the new channels so they are only available on the new MPEG4 receivers, so if you want the the new programing, you better be in line tommorow to get on the waiting list.

 

[kokomogator]

I'm in the same boat as you. I like my AT180 with my HD-Pak. If I want to keep all the channels I have I would have to go with HD Gold which becomes an extra $10.00 or so added onto my monthly bill. My only choice is to drop back a level (not going to happen due to Fox Soccer Channel) or stand with what I've got (the more likely scenario).

I've really heard nothing good about VOOM, so in the end UHD and ESPN2-HD are the only things I'd be paying out the extra money for.

Same here but instead of 10.00 more, we would have to add lease fees and dvr fees (if applicable).

Haven't seen anything that compelling to make me want to add the extra cost. Guess I'll wait and see what shakes out.....