87W and 97W with Primestar 84e Multi-LNBF

[linuxman]

I got up at 4:00 AM this morning so I could be on the roof early while it was still cool.

I put the dish that was freed up from the family setup in place yesterday morning, and set it up on my TS satellite at 91W. Got the National Labs test card at 75% SQ, and that was where I left it. I thought maybe if I point the dish in between the two satellites I was going to try for, It might make things a little easier.

The elevation on 91W (G11) is 44.90 degrees, 87W (AMC3) elevation is 44.70, and 97W (G25) is 44.40. I thought this will work out perfectly. I can set it on 91W, and both LNBFs will be higher and it will be very easy to set.

I was surprised to find that when I put the LNBF for AMC3 on, I couldn't get a signal of any kind no matter if I slid it East or West on the bracket, or up and down, nothing. I was using the strongest TP on AMC3 which is 11799 H. So I took the bottom nut off the holding bolt, and took the LNBF out of the bracket, and set it down on the bottom of the LNBF resting on the bracket, and BAM had 75% SQ. I marked the spot on the side bracket, and put the LNBF back on and semi-tightened down.

I thought if you can't raise the bridge, you can lower the river, and decided to try lowering the elevation on the dish to allow for the tightening nuts etc to fit under the LNBF. Lowered up to 6 degrees and nothing. I had marked the elevation on the side of the dish from where I started, so I cranked it back up to there. I sat there for a few minutes, and thought, now what?

So I thought what the heck, I'll try raising the elevation on the dish. After a couple of degrees of raising, I began to get a signal. So I peaked the elevation, and then began adjusting the holding bolt.

I ended up with the above TP at 99% but Montana PBS was only at 30%. They are both Horizontal so I adjusted the skew a little. For all those reading, skew makes all the difference in the world. I finally settled at Montana PBS at 45%, but the Vertical PBS channels are at 60% SQ, so that made me happy. I guess the Horizontal channels with lower signals are a little different when the dish is not at the center.

I then hooked up G25, and I didn't even have to move the LNBF. I had signal on 11935 H. From there it was just a matter of fine tuning with East/West and up/down movements, and finally skew until I was finally satisfied.

Games N Flix is at 75% SQ and all else falls in place from there. The Church channel is in the nineties.

I was very surprised that I had to raise the dish instead of lowering. Maybe some of you physics guys out there can tell me the answer to that one?

Here are the pics:







After looking at the pictures, another question arises in my mind. Why is the LNB for G25 (6 degrees from center) closer to the bracket (lower) and lower elevation than the one for AMC3 (4 degrees from center)? The only answer I can think of is that the angle is steeper for the satellite which is closer. What answers do you have?

I would have liked to have tried for 79W (AMC5) just to see if I can get it on the same dish. I don't know of a way to add it to my Pansat setup though, so I didn't try.

Remember the new LNBFs are Universals, and they are all coming in on the 22Khz side turned on of my Ecoda switch. I now have 4 LNBs on the the 0Khz side of the Ecoda switch and 4 on the 22Khz on side of that switch.

The Pansat only has 4 ports in the setup screen, and 22Khz switch on or off.

If any of you know of a way for me to add more LNBFs to this setup, please post it here?

For those of you interested, these two pictures are of my dish farms. The first one is of the Northern dish farm, and the second is the Southern dish farm.





I have plenty of space in the middle for another BUD which I am going to try and add by Fall.

Fred

 

[iafirebuff]

NICE looking setup! I envy the space you have for your dishes! NICE!

 

[linuxman]

Thanks Larry!

I wouldn't have it either if it was in the yard. My wife wouldn't have it there either. So I went to the only place I had.

It has worked out pretty well!

Fred

 

[gabshere]

Great job Fred looks good , makes me want to jump out there

did it pull a signal better with no skew on the lnb or are some of these shots before tuning. it might have been an early picture some of the later shots from other angles look like they have skew.

great job on the pictures ( i like lots of em) .. that helps get the ideas going

 

[linuxman]

Thanks George!!

There is a little skew on both of them. There is actually more skew on AMC3 than G25. I think I remember reading on here somewhere that the skew on G25 is a little screwy anyway. That is where the best signal on all TPs that came in for me.

Edit: Yes pictures are what it is all about. That's where I got my ideas.

Fred

 

[turbosat]

Nice setup! I like the bracket idea, not sure I would have the patience to make it work though. Should get good video on the PBS channels, I had a round primestar on that sat for quite a while. Good pics too, you can see the details.

 

[linuxman]

Thanks Turbosat!!

The first time takes lots of patience, but after you get the hang of it, it gets lots easier!

If the light is good, it takes good pictures. It is just a Sony Cybershot I bought 3 or 4 years ago for around $200.00. Nothing special 3.2 mega pixels I think. If everything is right and I hold it still, it takes pretty good pictures.

Fred

 

[Tron]

Yes, all of that space on that giant flat roof must really be nice! The only part of my roof that is flat is a 9' x 5.5' square that is actually the roof of an attached shed. That's where I have my dish farm, which is getting crowded as I have a motorized 36" and stationary 1M Channel Master. I will be adding an 84E soon, and a T90 if everything can fit with no LOS issues (dishes blocking dishes) and still give me room to walk up there

Just added a 5.5' pole and Winegard Square Shooter DTV OTA antenna to my motorized NPRM

 

[sharpee]

Great Pics Linuxman, I'd like to try that on my 84e. What kind of brackets are those and where can i get them?

 

[Keith Brannen]

I got up at 4:00 AM this morning so I could be on the roof early while it was still cool.

Only someone truly addicted to this "hobby" would do that! Haven't done that myself (being a night hawk), but have been out late at night in the dark (with a lamp duct-taped to a universal mount), and have done lots of FTA work during the winter with the temperature close to freezing (both below and slightly about) and snow on the ground!

I thought if you can't raise the bridge, you can lower the river, and decided to try lowering the elevation on the dish to allow for the tightening nuts etc to fit under the LNBF. Lowered up to 6 degrees and nothing. I had marked the elevation on the side of the dish from where I started, so I cranked it back up to there. I sat there for a few minutes, and thought, now what?

So I thought what the heck, I'll try raising the elevation on the dish. After a couple of degrees of raising, I began to get a signal. So I peaked the elevation, and then began adjusting the holding bolt.

I was very surprised that I had to raise the dish instead of lowering. Maybe some of you physics guys out there can tell me the answer to that one?

EVERYTHING is backwards when using multiple LNBs! Its all about angles and signal bounce, and screwy! I ran into the same problem with one of my dishes, where near the bottom of the dish it was already touching the facia of the roof (wall mounted dish), and I wanted to move it closer towards the roof. So I raised the dish up a bit and was able to move it a bit more towards the roof. I thought I would have to lower the multiple LNBs, but no, the LNBs had to go up higher!

I would have liked to have tried for 79W (AMC5) just to see if I can get it on the same dish. I don't know of a way to add it to my Pansat setup though, so I didn't try.

??? My Pansat has it listed, 3 lines below AMC3. Did it get deleted? Anyhow, you can add it in the Edit TP/Satellite area, scroll down to the bottom of the satellite list and you will find "New".

Remember the new LNBFs are Universals, and they are all coming in on the 22Khz side turned on of my Ecoda switch. I now have 4 LNBs on the the 0Khz side of the Ecoda switch and 4 on the 22Khz on side of that switch.

The Pansat only has 4 ports in the setup screen, and 22Khz switch on or off.

If any of you know of a way for me to add more LNBFs to this setup, please post it here?

What you need is what I have, an EMP Centauri (GOTO nn SWITCH S. 168) DiSEqC 1.2 8x1 Switch. In your case, you would need two of them, and still use the Ecoda 22KHz switch. Labgate's website shows how to do this: hxxp://www.labgate.info/ (saw him post it this way with "xx" instead of "tt", figure it is to avoid spammers, etc.). See his Switches/Motors page. You would be able to get up to 16 Universal LNBs that way. I did a review of the switch, and detail how I set it up on my Pansat (have 13 LNBs of all types running through it). See my review in the FTA/MPEG2 Equipment Reviews section.

Anyhow, great job on your second (and I doubt your last) multiple LNB dish!

 

[linuxman]

Hey Tron!

The only part of my roof that is flat is a 9' x 5.5' square

That's a lot of dishes on such a small patch of real estate! If I crowded mine up a little, there's no telling how many I could get up there.

Hey Sharpee!

What kind of brackets are those and where can i get them?

I actually don't know where they came from, or what they were used for. When I first bought out my company from the previous owner, there were a lot of spare parts and pieces. He was like me, never threw anything away. I found 3 little plastic bags with 4 each in them inside a coffee can with a lot of other bolts, screws, and nuts. I am glad he kept them where ever they are from.

Hey Keith!

Only someone truly addicted to this "hobby" would do that! Haven't done that myself (being a night hawk), but have been out late at night in the dark (with a lamp duct-taped to a universal mount), and have done lots of FTA work during the winter with the temperature close to freezing (both below and slightly about) and snow on the ground!

Yes I guess you could say I am truly addicted! I have thought about the night time thing you do, but there are too many bugs around here for that. But I have frozen my back side off a few times!!

EVERYTHING is backwards when using multiple LNBs! Its all about angles and signal bounce, and screwy!

I would have to agree with you about it being screwy!! I would have never thought that raising the dish would lower the arm surface for the mount.

??? My Pansat has it listed, 3 lines below AMC3. Did it get deleted? Anyhow, you can add it in the Edit TP/Satellite area, scroll down to the bottom of the satellite list and you will find "New".

The satellite listing is there, I was referring to how to set it up with only 4 diseqc ports available in the menu. Four diseqc ports either 22Khz on or off equals 8 LNBFs. That confuses me a little. Which really confuses me on your next paragraph.

What you need is what I have, an EMP Centauri (GOTO nn SWITCH S. 168) DiSEqC 1.2 8x1 Switch.

How do you get 8 diseqc ports to show up on the satellite setup menu?

If you can tell me how to do that, I just might go crazy with these experiments! Some would say that I might have already walked over the edge.

Thanks for your input!! It has been invaluable!

Fred

 

[Mr Tony]

very nice pictures and very innovative Might have to try something like that soon

ALso, like most have said...it must be nice to have a roof like that

 

[linuxman]

Thanks Iceberg!

You already have the ultimate Multi-LNBF setup with your Toriodal T-90 dish.

It is nice to experiment with something different though.

The roof is nice! I sometimes wish I lived out in the country where I could do all this on the ground without having to always watch out for getting too close to the sides. It is also a little tricky when the wind is high.

The worse thing is the heat! It is a tar roof, and the sun really heats it up. Nice in the winter when the wind isn't blowing. Like having your own furnace. In the summer, wind or not, it gets so hot it will burn your feet through your shoes. I put my hand on it palm down and if it burns my hand, that's when I know it is time to get off.

Fred

 

[linuxman]

Darn Keith!!

I did a review of the switch, and detail how I set it up on my Pansat (have 13 LNBs of all types running through it). See my review in the FTA/MPEG2 Equipment Reviews section.

I just went back and re-read your post, and am now reading the review. Sometimes things just pass me by like I never saw it. I am reading it now to see how you set the switch up in your Pansat.

Fred

 

[linuxman]

Ok Keith,

I have read your review of the EMP Centauri switch, and followed the links to Labgates site. I have been through his site before. That's how I found out about the Ecoda switch.

The problem I think I might run into is that my Pansat is hooked to a VBox II on the 0Khz side of the Ecoda switch and the diseqc 1.2 positioner is disabled on the 4 LNBFs on the 22Khz side of that switch.

If I turn the diseqc 1.2 back on, and push move, the big dish will move because the Ecoda switch passes diseqc commands.

I have a question though that might work.

How about using USALS? There is a move button to push in USALS, and the VBox II ignores USALS commands.

The problem with doing it that way, is that I have already reclaimed all the 1-27 positions using Channel Master that are reserved for USALS to use on the big dish. That part might not matter since we are using fictitious positions anyway.

So what do you think about that?

Will USALS work with the EMP Centauri switch?

Fred

 

[Keith Brannen]

Ok Keith,

I have read your review of the EMP Centauri switch, and followed the links to Labgates site. I have been through his site before. That's how I found out about the Ecoda switch.

The problem I think I might run into is that my Pansat is hooked to a VBox II on the 0Khz side of the Ecoda switch and the diseqc 1.2 positioner is disabled on the 4 LNBFs on the 22Khz side of that switch.

If I turn the diseqc 1.2 back on, and push move, the big dish will move because the Ecoda switch passes diseqc commands.

I have a question though that might work.

How about using USALS? There is a move button to push in USALS, and the VBox II ignores USALS commands.

The problem with doing it that way, is that I have already reclaimed all the 1-27 positions using Channel Master that are reserved for USALS to use on the big dish. That part might not matter since we are using fictitious positions anyway.

So what do you think about that?

Will USALS work with the EMP Centauri switch?

Fred

The EMP Centauri switch supports DiSEqC 1.1 & 1.2. USALS is 1.3, so don't think it would work. Since I don't have a motor, I have no way of testing what would or wouldn't work with the switch. It might be possible to use the ecoda switch, have a standard DiSEqC switch (using the ports) on one side of the ecoda switch, and have an EMP Centauri on the other side of the ecoda switch. Labgate would definitely be the person to ask about it, as from looking at his site and types of dishes he has, I am sure he has probably tried every possible configuration!

 

[linuxman]

The EMP Centauri switch supports DiSEqC 1.1 & 1.2. USALS is 1.3, so don't think it would work. Since I don't have a motor, I have no way of testing what would or wouldn't work with the switch. It might be possible to use the ecoda switch, have a standard DiSEqC switch (using the ports) on one side of the ecoda switch, and have an EMP Centauri on the other side of the ecoda switch. Labgate would definitely be the person to ask about it, as from looking at his site and types of dishes he has, I am sure he has probably tried every possible configuration!

Thanks Keith!

I was just shooting in the dark about the USALS hoping it might work.

After thinking about it, I could probably make it work by writing down all the numbers for the existing satellites and their position number and resetting the VBox II. Then take the VBox II out of the loop, set up the stationary sats using their respective position numbers with the dish at one location, then put the VBox II back in, and move to the rest, and save their position numbers at the correct location.

Then each sucessive new stationary satellite would have to have the VBox II out while setting it's position, then put back in. Then the only time the dish would move would be to go to the one location where all the stationary satellites are stored. The VBox II allows for more than one position number at the same physical location.

It would be a lot of busy work, but doable.

I'll have to think on that for a while.

Thanks again for responding!

Fred

 

[Keith Brannen]

After thinking about it, I could probably make it work by writing down all the numbers for the existing satellites and their position number and resetting the VBox II. Then take the VBox II out of the loop, set up the stationary sats using their respective position numbers with the dish at one location, then put the VBox II back in, and move to the rest, and save their position numbers at the correct location.

Then each sucessive new stationary satellite would have to have the VBox II out while setting it's position, then put back in. Then the only time the dish would move would be to go to the one location where all the stationary satellites are stored. The VBox II allows for more than one position number at the same physical location.

I'm not sure whether it would work or not. To understand better, I think I need more information on how is your system is setup in relation to switches you currently have and where your Pansat and VBox II are in relation to those switches.

When I mentioned using the Ecoda switch with a standard DiSEqC switch on one side of it (with the motor), and an EMP Centauri on the other, I was thinking somewhat along the lines of the one graph of Labgate's (on his Graphs page) "Graphs/diseqc motor + bud + fixed dishes on 1 receiverf.pdf" with an EMP Centauri on the right hand side of the Ecoda switch. I would assume the VBox II would have to go after the Ecoda switch (if possible, in other words: Pansat, Ecoda switch, Vbox II) or it would probably interfere with the EMP Centauri settings.

 

[linuxman]

Hey Keith.

I have my setup just as it appears in the digram posted by Labgate in this post. I don't think he has put this one up on his website yet, but that is the way it is set up.

With that setup in mind, I think it might be possible to do what I have proposed. It may be one of those things that just has to be tried to find out.

Fred

 

[Keith Brannen]

I have my setup just as it appears in the digram posted by Labgate in this post. I don't think he has put this one up on his website yet, but that is the way it is set up.

With that setup in mind, I think it might be possible to do what I have proposed. It may be one of those things that just has to be tried to find out.

Yes, with that setup, and just replacing the standard DiSEqC switch on the 22KHz side with an EMP Centauri, I think you have the best chance of it working. As you say, it is probably one of those things that have to be tried to find out if it will work.

If do you try it, the EMP Centauri can also operate as a standard DiSEqC switch (other four ports are disabled) so you can test it first before attempting to use it as it should be used. This is what I did with mine, replaced the old DiSEqC switch, checked that I was getting everything coming in correctly, and then began the change (which requires a LOT of patience to setup, even knowing this, I still get impatient waiting for the signal to come in after I have made a change).


Good luck!