942 DVR and OTA Guide Q/A

[Sean Mota]

I still do not understand why Dish Network does not give us the data for Free to 942 Subs. DirecTv does, VOOM Did, and Cable does as well. Anyway, I really hate to use the 942 as a DVR since that's not how it was meant to be so I decided to pay for the local channels (Ouch!) just to get the data as an experiment. Last night I made the order and immediately I've got data for the following OTA Digital Networks:

CBS HD
NBC HD
Fox HD and
ABC HD.

However I did not get any data for UPN HD and PBS HD. These are my local channels. Can someone explain to me why or who I need to contact to get guide data for UPN HD (WOR in NYC) and PBS HD (WNET in NYC).

Second thing I notice about the OTA digital Guide Data is that is not "Real Digital Data". It is the same data that comes through the satellite local channels. This means that none of the shows are highlighted as HD in the PG. Ok, this is no biggie and I can deal with that.


But who should I contact about getting my local data for UPN HD and PBS HD. Should I contact Technical Support. Would they know what I am talking about? Anyone had a similar situation? Were you able to get the data? any information is appreciated.

P.S. I forgot to mention that there is no local data for multicast stations. On DirecTv there is and on Voom there was.

 

[riffjim4069]

I receive PG data for my locals (DC) area, but others like dogpoobob do not. What burns my arse (besides a flame about 3 feet high), is the fact I receive OTA programming from three other DMAs, but most display no PG data: Charlottesville and Richmond show "Digital Local" and Baltimore actually shows PG data for some of the channels. : I don't get this....especially since the FCC says Richmond is "Significantly Viewed" in my County and Baltimore in almost 100 miles away. Again, there is no reason I should have to pay for locals, beyond my 12 month programming commitment, in order to receive PG data that comes in a free over-the-air PSIP datastream. http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=69802

I called Tech Support a few times, but they were worthless in this matter.

 

[Tom in TX]

But who should I contact about getting my local data for UPN HD and PBS HD. Should I contact Technical Support. Would they know what I am talking about? Anyone had a similar situation? Were you able to get the data? any information is appreciated.

You might wait until tomorrow. I believe that some 942's took up to 48 hours to fully populate the guide, initially. Let me know if that works. There has been some discussion about this occasionally.
Tom in TX

 

[CDH]

Same issues here. No guide information for digital sub-channels (that I used to get with Voom), no guide information for digital channels I can pick up from adjacent DMAs (Charlotte, Asheville - Super DMA mapping on Voom was cool!), but I do get guide information for my local NBC, ABC, CBS, Fox, WB, UPN and PBS stations. I wish the 942 would decode the guide data from PSIP, but my understanding is that it doesn't see that data, only the flags that identify the channel. Sigh.

The only time it really annoys me is when I want to see the information for PBS-HD and for North Carolina's UNCTV (PBS) which is different than SCETV.

I don't even care that they charge me for the satellite locals I am not using, but I do wish they could at least give me all the guide information that is obviously available through various sources.

CDH.

 

[waltinvt]

Same issues here. No guide information for digital sub-channels (that I used to get with Voom), no guide information for digital channels I can pick up from adjacent DMAs (Charlotte, Asheville - Super DMA mapping on Voom was cool!), but I do get guide information for my local NBC, ABC, CBS, Fox, WB, UPN and PBS stations. I wish the 942 would decode the guide data from PSIP, but my understanding is that it doesn't see that data, only the flags that identify the channel. Sigh.

The only time it really annoys me is when I want to see the information for PBS-HD and for North Carolina's UNCTV (PBS) which is different than SCETV.

I don't even care that they charge me for the satellite locals I am not using, but I do wish they could at least give me all the guide information that is obviously available through various sources.

CDH.

The 942 ignores PSIP delibertly because Dish would prefer to sell you their LiLs rather than have you get them OTA. Sure they provide OTA capability but they don't go out of their way to make it easy. In fact more recently I think they've gone out of their way to make it harder.

Now that they've got most areas available for SD LiLs and they speak of going after HD LiLs, why would they want to make it more attractive for you to get those signals some way other than buy them from Dish?

One indication of this is that their newer receivers (like 942 vs 811) seem to not work as well in terms of locking weaker signals. In fact the 942 won't register the lower readings like the 811 did, so it makes it difficult to even find the signal.

I think the FCC will eventually have some say in the PSIP issue. If they can mandate rules about stations providing, I would think they can also mandate that signal providers provide it to their tuners.

 

[Sean Mota]

You might wait until tomorrow. I believe that some 942's took up to 48 hours to fully populate the guide, initially. Let me know if that works. There has been some discussion about this occasionally.
Tom in TX

Still no guide data on UPN HD or PBS channel 13. It has been more than 48 hours already.

 

[Sean Mota]

I am happy with the 942 for the most part but this OTA tuner is really making me angry.

Besides the problem I already outlined earlier, I foun another one. MY WB local WPIX has two subchannels 11-01 and 11-02. For some dam reason the 942 is getting only a signal on 11-02 which has no data and and there is no DD5.1 sound. I can get the video but no guide data and no DD5.1. On 11-01 I get that freaking message "no signal received". On this channel the guide has data (no good to me here). Now the correct subchannel where Video should come is 11-01 because I am getting this through the HDTivo and VOOM receiver on the correct sub-channel but not on the 942.

Dish needs to fix this nonsense...

 

[riffjim4069]

I am happy with the 942 for the most part but this OTA tuner is really making me angry.

Besides the problem I already outlined earlier, I foun another one. MY WB local WPIX has two subchannels 11-01 and 11-02. For some dam reason the 942 is getting only a signal on 11-02 which has no data and and there is no DD5.1 sound. I can get the video but no guide data and no DD5.1. On 11-01 I get that freaking message "no signal received". On this channel the guide has data (no good to me here). Now the correct subchannel where Video should come is 11-01 because I am getting this through the HDTivo and VOOM receiver on the correct sub-channel but not on the 942.

Dish needs to fix this nonsense...

Agreed. This has been going on since Day 1 and is much more important IMO than the Pocket Dish updates soon to be released: http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=69802 - http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?p=641323#post641323

Hopefully someone as Dish Network is tracking this...

 

[waltinvt]

Technical question about PSIP

We've beat to death Dish's scheme to force subs to buy LiLs to get PG for their OTAs but assuming they are forced to change their position, what would be involved technically for the 942 to receive the EPG info in the PSIP data stream?

It's my understanding that the 942 IS already using part of the PSIP data by virtue of it being able to map channel numbers. ie, it sees channel 24 and maps 24-1, 24-2, 24-5 or whatever.

I wonder if this means that the part of the PSIP data stream that contains the EPG is actually being blocked or filtered out by Dish and if so, can it be changed with software or is it a hardware design issue?

 

[jergenf]

We've beat to death Dish's scheme to force subs to buy LiLs to get PG for their OTAs but assuming they are forced to change their position, what would be involved technically for the 942 to receive the EPG info in the PSIP data stream?

It's my understanding that the 942 IS already using part of the PSIP data by virtue of it being able to map channel numbers. ie, it sees channel 24 and maps 24-1, 24-2, 24-5 or whatever.

I wonder if this means that the part of the PSIP data stream that contains the EPG is actually being blocked or filtered out by Dish and if so, can it be changed with software or is it a hardware design issue?

Correct the PSIP is what's used to identify what analog station the digital channel emulates including the call letters. Without PSIP your receiver might produce something like Rf16-1 UKN instead.

There's also EPG info in the PSIP table but because many stations are either not supplying program info or not supplying enough of it to fill their 9 day guide feature. DN has decided ignore that portion of the stream rather than supply data for the limited stations that are providing full data. Also they would perfer to sell their 9 day guide instead as many customers will pay $5 more for it.

 

[Sean Mota]

Should they sell it, it is their business but at least provide a way that the information (which customers are buying) maps to the appropiate channel. Not only is the customer paying for it but the customer is not getting the correct PG information in the channels.

 

[jergenf]

Should they sell it, it is their business...

I feel that they are acting rather petty on this issue and also somewhat unfair. 811 owners receive their guide without having to pay while HD DVR owners are required to subscribe in addition to paying a $5 DVR fee.

... but at least provide a way that the information (which customers are buying) maps to the appropiate channel. Not only is the customer paying for it but the customer is not getting the correct PG information in the channels.

They do map to OTA for those that subscribe to locals. But bare in mind you only get the info to the analog stations that they providing not every channel or subchannel you may be receiving. There are some issues where some subscribers aren't getting what they paid for. I believe those are software problems but that's still a poor excuse.

 

[Buji]

I'm having a similar issue, and have started a thread at avsforum:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=582704

I'll be watching this space to see if you get any info on who to contact at dish, and I'll make sure I post back here if I get any good info.

 

[riffjim4069]

Four months ago few listened, but as the number of 942 users continue to to grow I feel E* will have to finally address this problem.

 

[Buji]

well, when I called it in, they said that they weren't getting any calls for such an issue etc. Obviously BS, but I find in situations like this, it might be better for them to deal with it than put up with the alternative. In this case, the alternative is that I'll be sending in the email daily and I suggest everyone else who cares to get some kind of response do the same as well.

 

[Sean Mota]

I feel that they are acting rather petty on this issue and also somewhat unfair. 811 owners receive their guide without having to pay while HD DVR owners are required to subscribe in addition to paying a $5 DVR fee.

They do map to OTA for those that subscribe to locals. But bare in mind you only get the info to the analog stations that they providing not every channel or subchannel you may be receiving. There are some issues where some subscribers aren't getting what they paid for. I believe those are software problems but that's still a poor excuse.

I agree with you but in my case there are two local stations that they don't map correctly and they are not sub-channels. My local PBS station gets no data (Channel 13) and my WB local station (WPIX ch11) gets the data in the correct subchannel but the 942 maps the Video to the incorrect subchannel. So I get data on ch11 but no video. I get video in the incorrect subchannel but no data and no DD5.1. I can live with the analog data but the incorrect mapping is not something I can live with. This is happening in NYC just in case someone is reading. The PSIP channel number for ch11 in NYC WPIX (WB) is incorrect.

P.S. I also do not get data on my local UPN channel WWOR channel 9.

 

[jergenf]

I agree with you but in my case there are two local stations that they don't map correctly and they are not sub-channels. My local PBS station gets no data (Channel 13) and my WB local station (WPIX ch11) gets the data in the correct subchannel but the 942 maps the Video to the incorrect subchannel. So I get data on ch11 but no video. I get video in the incorrect subchannel but no data and no DD5.1. I can live with the analog data but the incorrect mapping is not something I can live with. This is happening in NYC just in case someone is reading. The PSIP channel number for ch11 in NYC WPIX (WB) is incorrect.

P.S. I also do not get data on my local UPN channel WWOR channel 9.

Is this happening to everyone in NYC or only those with a 942?

Can you get channel 234 WPIX and 238 WWOR (I'm getting these as part of the superstations) they're analog only but should have the correct guide data. Also check the 8000 section of your guide.

PSIP can definately cause guide mapping problems however I would imagine that complaints to the station would have arrived and they would have corrected their PSIP table by now.

Don't know what to say about WNET except maybe dish hasn't ID the correct subchannel. Example in Rochester 21-4 gets the guide data for WXXI while 21-1 thru 21-3 get nothing. However DN is only providing the main (analog) PBS channel so 21-4 is the correct mapping for my area.

 

[Sean Mota]

Is this happening to everyone in NYC or only those with a 942?

Can you get channel 234 WPIX and 238 WWOR (I'm getting these as part of the superstations) they're analog only but should have the correct guide data. Also check the 8000 section of your guide.

Yes. I can but the problem is not in the satellite channels. It is in the OTA channels.

PSIP can definately cause guide mapping problems however I would imagine that complaints to the station would have arrived and they would have corrected their PSIP table by now.

The problem is not with the station. I have an HDTivo and a VOOM receiver and both are receiving the channel 11 in the correct subchannel. The problem is with the 942 that is mapping the incorrect subchannel for channel 11 WPIX.

Don't know what to say about WNET except maybe dish hasn't ID the correct subchannel. Example in Rochester 21-4 gets the guide data for WXXI while 21-1 thru 21-3 get nothing. However DN is only providing the main (analog) PBS channel so 21-4 is the correct mapping for my area.

Well, I can only tell you that the HDTivo gets the correct data. This problem has a solution. VOOM (when it existed) also provided the correct data. So this is doable and not impossible to fix.

 

[jergenf]

The problem is not with the station. I have an HDTivo and a VOOM receiver and both are receiving the channel 11 in the correct subchannel. The problem is with the 942 that is mapping the incorrect subchannel for channel 11 WPIX.

You have proven that it's not the PSIP from the stations. All you can do is complain and wait for the new software update for your 942.

 

[Sean Mota]

You have proven that it's not the PSIP from the stations. All you can do is complain and wait for the new software update for your 942.

You would think that something like this will not merit a complaint and get fixed right away since they are charging money for it.