ABC Feeds, I'm NOT saying it again : - (((

[ECruzBUD]

Hi Folks,

Please just read my post...

Here we go again, same time like last year in October and now
this November, NOT able to get ABC feeds at all on Galaxy 16, C-band
with my C-band 10 foot BUD and with the GEOSAT PRO HDVR-3500
FTA receiver, being slaved with my Analog C/Ku band GI 650i receiver.

I'm unable to view ABC feed to watch "Charlie Brown's Thanksgiving".
ABC feeds is Horizontal.

However, I'm able to see what his face??? His Chapel which is on Vertical channel.
That tuned in good. But NO ABC feeds and MeTV East.

I tell yeah, this has something to with the weather effects.
The coldest temps at nights we have is in the 30's
And in the 50's during the day.

I think that servo motor I bought on ebay isn't tough enough for the cold
fall and winter.

Like I said I bought that servo motor in January of this year, installed it
and got ABC feed part of the winter time and came back in the spring.
And it lasted until this month.

I'm going to have to determinant that it's the weather effects on the
either the servo motor or the existing wires from my receiver.
I re-checked everything, they're fine.

As I recalled from the other forum that I joined, last spring.
one of those members told me that I really do NOT need the
black wire, which is the ground wire, and told me that would be
too much of the signals going around to make the servo motor work.
So that member suggested just use the RED and WHITE wires, and NOT
using the black wire. Well, I use all 3 colors as well.

Maybe the Co-Rotor II feedhorn that rotates the servo motor part
is too cold to rotate in this temp. ????? Too cold to receive ABC's
high frequency. ????

Now, Galaxy 14 C-band is working well, but what's the problem with
Galaxy 16????

I just gave this BUD a Bath which was on Nov. 17th
It was a beautiful warm and sunny day.
But I tapped onto the dome cover with the long brush to
wash the dome cover. And I was carefully NOT to interfer
the possible losing ABC feeds signal. And YES it happen, TODAY.

I should've check that sooner once after I gave the BUD a bath
on Nov. 17th.

When the nice and warm sunny days comes, this winter, I hope???
I'm gonna have to lower the dish by going all the way to East and
to open up the dome cover, and maybe re-insert the servo motor.
But again that guy's Chapel channel, on Galaxy 16, Vertical channel
is fine.

I don't know what to tell you from y annalist from last October, 2017
and this November, 2017 with the same problem.

Maybe the servo motor is too cheap or something.

Maybe the Co-Rotor II feehorn is too cold and 16 and a half
years old.

That's all I have to say, now. I just want to get my words out,
because you're all familiar to my problems with Galaxy 16 C-band.

I'm NOT saying it again. : - (((

In the meantime, have a HAPPY THANKSGIVING!!!

Thanks,
Eugene

 

[pacificrim]

Are you getting any Horizontal signals on any satellite?

 

[ECruzBUD]

Hi Pacificrim, in Canada, : - ))))

YES, on Galaxy 14 C-band.
And some of the Horizontal channels on Galaxy 16,
but not as many as I used to a couple of month a go.

Allow me to ad from my first post.

Maybe the servo motor or the feehorn got moist
from the 30 degree temp. and we do get lots of frost
and fogs. I do see a lot of moist on the feehorn dome cover,
like wet damp.
Or moist on the cable from the feedhorn.

Eugene

 

[Titanium]

There are no issues with these ABC feeds, but a dish and feed must be perfectly optimized to reliably receive them.

If you are receiving both vertical and horizontal channels on different satellites, the servo motor and the wiring are working fine. BTW, you purchased the servo on Ebay from me, Titanium Satellite. It is a name brand product and a model that has been installed on tens of thousands of systems over the past twenty five plus years and not a cheap knock-off.

Yes, the probes can break and wear out, but unlikely that this is the issue as horizontal and vertical transponders are received on other satellites.

A servo motor requires all three wires to operate. It will not rotate with only two of the three wires connected..... PERIOD. Whoever suggested to only connect two wires of a servo motor didn't know what they were talking about.... The servo motor is DC type and the red and black wires provide the positive and negative polarities. Without the black wire, the motor would not have power.

Rather than repeat the painful process of attempting to extract coherent results from the testing suggestions as we have done in past threads about this same reception problem; at this point, I would highly recommend paying a PROFESSIONAL satellite technician to service your system. Contact a booking agency such as SEG or Techlink. Likely cost $300 - $500 plus travel time and parts.

You might review our replies in your past threads regarding this problem and try some of the testing suggestions.

Good luck.

 

[ECruzBUD]

Hi Titanium,

# 1. The servo motor I bought on ebay on Jan. 15, 2018
was from YOU. Which is on the feedhorn, NOW.

# 2. Whoever told me to use 2 wires only, instead of black wire,
was a member from "Rick's Sat Forum"

The dish is on the right track to satellites.
I think it might be the cable wiring from the receiver to the servo motor.
The cable with 3 wires, RED, WHITE and BLACK from the receiver to
the feedhorn.

As I recall from last spring, when I got ABC back, I had a earphone
to hear what's on TV inside, while I was up on the ladder, and when
I was moving the cable with 3 wires around the feedhorn, like a loop,
I can hear the channel signal with a earphone from inside.
Whenever I move that cable around the feedhorn, I do hear comes and goes
signal from inside with the earphone.
In that case, I couldn't figure out where to start to find on where that break up
signal is located. Or in other words, loose connections.

So, it's pretty cool, and I'm smart using the FM system to hear the TV inside
the house, while I was up on the ladder at the feedhorn with FM receiver with the earphone.

So, the dish is perfectly fine, it's gotta be the cable that goes from the
receiver to the feedhorn where it might have loose connections that comes
and goes when moving the cable from the ground, around the feedhorn.
And I heard it by using the earphone with the FM system to hear what's
going on inside, on TV where I placed the FM system microphone to the TV.

Hope all helps with answers.

Have to wait for a nicer day to check it. "Patience".

Thanks,
Eugene

 

[wvman]

Hi Titanium,

# 1. The servo motor I bought on ebay on Jan. 15, 2018
was from YOU. Which is on the feedhorn, NOW.

# 2. Whoever told me to use 2 wires only, instead of black wire,
was a member from "Rick's Sat Forum"

The dish is on the right track to satellites.
I think it might be the cable wiring from the receiver to the servo motor.
The cable with 3 wires, RED, WHITE and BLACK from the receiver to
the feedhorn.

As I recall from last spring, when I got ABC back, I had a earphone
to hear what's on TV inside, while I was up on the ladder, and when
I was moving the cable with 3 wires around the feedhorn, like a loop,
I can hear the channel signal with a earphone from inside.
Whenever I move that cable around the feedhorn, I do hear comes and goes
signal from inside with the earphone.
In that case, I couldn't figure out where to start to find on where that break up
signal is located. Or in other words, loose connections.

So, it's pretty cool, and I'm smart using the FM system to hear the TV inside
the house, while I was up on the ladder at the feedhorn with FM receiver with the earphone.

So, the dish is perfectly fine, it's gotta be the cable that goes from the
receiver to the feedhorn where it might have loose connections that comes
and goes when moving the cable from the ground, around the feedhorn.
And I heard it by using the earphone with the FM system to hear what's
going on inside, on TV where I placed the FM system microphone to the TV.

Hope all helps with answers.

Have to wait for a nicer day to check it. "Patience".

Thanks,
Eugene

Just so you know, all the ABC channels on Galaxy 16 are coming in fine here in West Virginia on a 7.5 foot dish. I have a 90/77 signal level on all of them. Sometimes it appears they're transmitting with a crappy FEC. When it's like that, they break up and the signal is up and down, but today they're rock solid.

I don't have a way to look at their FEC so that's just a guess. Even the Fox Syndicated channels are booming in on the vertical side. Happy Thanksgiving!!

 

[ECruzBUD]

Okay, let me clarify this here....
For some of you have asked me..

On Galazy 16, C-band, when I discovered not seeing ABC feeds on the Horizontal channel,
I can ONLY see Shepherd's Chapel on the Vertical channel.
I have NOTHING on Horizontal. !!!! : - (((
Must be when I was washing the BUD for a bath which was on Nov. 17th
and I remembered tapping or brush lightly with the long brush on the feedhorn dome
cover.
This gotta be some kind of loose connection inside.

However, this may sound funny....Or NOT funny....

Over to the WEST, on Galaxy 14, C-band,
tuning on TBN which is on Horizontal channel, it's FINE there!!! ?????

So, IF you're wondering I got Shepherd's Chapel on Galaxy 16, C-band on Vertical channel,
it makes you wonder why nothing on Horizontal.

I recognize this problem last winter and replaced the servo motor in January, 2018.
And you all said that the weather have nothing to do with it.
Well, maybe just isn't my luck.
But I'm gong to keep troubleshooting.

All the connections on the analog receiver, such as the Polarity are fine.
Pushed all the way into the terminal. FINE, GOOD. : - ))) Nothing loose.

Just so that you know, some of you asked, and my answer is "NO,
nothing on Horizontal, But 1 channel on Vertical on Galaxy 16 C-band."

Nothing wrong with the digital receiver with the analog reciever.
I tried with a different FTA receiver, which is SKybox F3, and it's
the same outcome like with the GEO SAT PRO HDVR-3500.

Everything was fine except after I gave the BUD a bath in November
with the long brush.

Thanks

 

[Titanium]

The servo motor is working if Vertical is received one satellite and Horizontal on another.

Maybe the polarity skew setting is not correctly saved for 99w? Is the 99w horizontal polarity reading approximately 90 degrees different than the reading on a Vertical polarity? Example for a typical 90 degree difference: if horizontal polarity reading is -45, is the vertical reading +45?

 

[ECruzBUD]

I got it...I know what you're saying....

On the analog receiver, which is GI 650i C-band receiver.
The Skew for Horizontal is 0
The skew for Vertical is + 90
Those were adjusted when I got the servo motor installed.

I tried changing the skew on the Horizontal
from 0 to + 90. NOTHING
I tried from 0 to - 90 ( minus ) NOTHING,

I even tried changing from NORMAL to REVERSE
to see IF there the difference.

NO difference.
NO ABC feeds shows on the GEO SAT PRO HDVR-3500.

Hope I gave you the answers.

Thanks.

 

[Brct203]

I got it...I know what you're saying....

On the analog receiver, which is GI 650i C-band receiver.
The Skew for Horizontal is 0
The skew for Vertical is + 90
Those were adjusted when I got the servo motor installed.

I tried changing the skew on the Horizontal
from 0 to + 90. NOTHING
I tried from 0 to - 90 ( minus ) NOTHING,

I even tried changing from NORMAL to REVERSE
to see IF there the difference.

NO difference.
NO ABC feeds shows on the GEO SAT PRO HDVR-3500.

Hope I gave you the answers.

Thanks.

It might be easier to look for regular channels rather than feeds (as feeds might not be on full time). For example the LESEA channels on Galaxy 16 are also Horizontal, and usually very easy to receive. Once you get those, you can look for the ABC Feeds

i'm not familiar with that analog receiver, but how about trying this:

- Set it to Galaxy 16 Horizontal
- Move the dish a bit to the West simply using the direction buttons, not using a preset, so that the polarity setting remains untouched
- go to the digital receiver and do a blind scan
- see if you are getting any Horizontal channel from SES1 at 101W (it should easily scan in Jewelry TV and some religious channels), or on SES3 at 103W (I think it should scan in QVC among others)

Also, can you write down and tell us what the skew settings are for Horizontal and Vertical on Galaxy 16 and on Galaxy 14?

Are you getting any other satellites than Galaxy 14 and 16?

 

[wvman]

I got it...I know what you're saying....

On the analog receiver, which is GI 650i C-band receiver.
The Skew for Horizontal is 0
The skew for Vertical is + 90
Those were adjusted when I got the servo motor installed.

I tried changing the skew on the Horizontal
from 0 to + 90. NOTHING
I tried from 0 to - 90 ( minus ) NOTHING,

I even tried changing from NORMAL to REVERSE
to see IF there the difference.

NO difference.
NO ABC feeds shows on the GEO SAT PRO HDVR-3500.

Hope I gave you the answers.

Thanks.

Have you physically looked to see if the probe inside the feed throat is actually moving. You can do that by holding a mirror in front of the feed throat to see what's going on inside. I had a customer who purchased a servo from us and when he installed it, he lost the round wheel on front of the servo motor that fits in the slot in the end of the probe. When you changed the polarity 90 degrees both ways and it didn't make a difference, I'd be suspicious that the probe isn't turning.

I'd pull the servo off the feed, leaving the wires attached, and have someone change channels to verify that it's actually moving. Sometimes it's necessary to watch the servo to see what's going on. Just a suggestion. You also said you had Shepherd's Chapel. Did you change polarity to see if you lost it? That would tell you if the polarity is working or not.

 

[ECruzBUD]

Hi Folks,

Wvman, I'm glad that you asked about have I look inside the feehorn.

First, I want to tell you all that I got ABC feeds BACK!!!
Thanks for the GUSTY WIND STORM on Saturday night that
shook my feedhorn!!! Hahahahahaa.

The last time I was up on the ladder to look inside the feehorn, which was
last spring, YES, the probe was rotating.

But I figured out what MIGHT be the problem that causing NOT able
to get ABC feed.

Some of you may NOT believe this, because you may not have this possible problem.

In the spring, I notice I have too LONG of cable that comes from the receiver.
NOT just the COAX cable. But the cable for the servo motor.
THAT cable is too long and made a 1 LOOP wrapped around the feedhorn.

You get it??? The LONG cable for the servo motor is wrapped around
the feedhorn like a 1 LOOP or 2 LOOP.

Visualize that picture in your mind looking at the feehonr????

I never pay attention on whether someone has made a LOOP
around the feedhorn.
But when I was up there, I tried to make the end cable for the
servo motor to set to look nice with the connections to the servo motor.
In other words, to make the wiring connection to the servo motor to
face at me that would look nice.
THAT WHEN I DISCOVERED ABC FEED WAS BACK AT THAT TIME.

So, here we are talking about a BIG LOOP of cable for the servo motor
is wrapped around the feedhon, like 1 or 2 LOPP on it.

And I bet that when you move the dish you could stretch that
servo motor wiring cable for not to work right at some satellites,
like this one on GALAXY 16 C-band Horizontal.

When it's NICE outside and NO GUSTY WIND that shook the
feedhorn, THANKS TO THE WIND I'm going up there
and see that LOOP cable on that feedhorn.

What do you think, Wvman????

Eugene

 

[wvman]

Hi Folks,

Wvman, I'm glad that you asked about have I look inside the feehorn.

First, I want to tell you all that I got ABC feeds BACK!!!
Thanks for the GUSTY WIND STORM on Saturday night that
shook my feedhorn!!! Hahahahahaa.

The last time I was up on the ladder to look inside the feehorn, which was
last spring, YES, the probe was rotating.

But I figured out what MIGHT be the problem that causing NOT able
to get ABC feed.

Some of you may NOT believe this, because you may not have this possible problem.

In the spring, I notice I have too LONG of cable that comes from the receiver.
NOT just the COAX cable. But the cable for the servo motor.
THAT cable is too long and made a 1 LOOP wrapped around the feedhorn.

You get it??? The LONG cable for the servo motor is wrapped around
the feedhorn like a 1 LOOP or 2 LOOP.

Visualize that picture in your mind looking at the feehonr????

I never pay attention on whether someone has made a LOOP
around the feedhorn.
But when I was up there, I tried to make the end cable for the
servo motor to set to look nice with the connections to the servo motor.
In other words, to make the wiring connection to the servo motor to
face at me that would look nice.
THAT WHEN I DISCOVERED ABC FEED WAS BACK AT THAT TIME.

So, here we are talking about a BIG LOOP of cable for the servo motor
is wrapped around the feedhon, like 1 or 2 LOPP on it.

And I bet that when you move the dish you could stretch that
servo motor wiring cable for not to work right at some satellites,
like this one on GALAXY 16 C-band Horizontal.

When it's NICE outside and NO GUSTY WIND that shook the
feedhorn, THANKS TO THE WIND I'm going up there
and see that LOOP cable on that feedhorn.

What do you think, Wvman????

Eugene

I don't remember if you have a quad feed or a button hook, but if the wind affects it, sounds like something is loose, and if it's a button hook, it may not be centered on the dish. If it is, you may have to buy some 1/8 inch aircraft cable and hook it to the feed in 4 places spaced evenly around the dish using turnbuckles to center it properly. As Titanium said, if's it's not near perfect those channels will give you problems.

Plus, those channels are not always on. Come warm weather, that might be a good project to work on. Even if it gives you a few extra point on the signal level, it's worth it. Probably want to check the focal distance as well. Good hunting! Right now, I'm in the middle of building the wife new kitchen cupboards. Have to keep her happy. If she isn't happy, no one is.

 

[ECruzBUD]

Wvman,

IF I were to win the LOTTO, I wold pay you to fly out here to
troubleshoot it, HAHAHAHA
You seem to know about my problem.
Then your wife would NOT be happy.

It's a Co-Rotor II feedhon, is that what you're asking me??? Not a quad feed.
I don't know what you mean by "Bottom hook"?? Could you send me a picture
or a link to that so that I would know what you're referring to???
And the 1/8 inch aircraft cable, also.

It's 17 and a half years old, now. Almost 18 will be in May, 2019.
And on a 10 foot mesh dish antenna, KTI, 17 and a half years ago.
So of the cables, as well.

I do agree with you that something's loose inside.

Good luck with your wife new kitchen so that she'll be happy.

Eugene

 

[wvman]

OK, here goes.

This is a Buttonhook.

This is a Quad.

As you can see in the top photo, all the electronics are supported by a single arm sticking out in front of the dish. In the bottom photo, all the electronics are supported by 4 arms equally spaced around the dish attached in the center to the scalar.

The Buttonhook feed in the top photo makes it easier to set the polarity and focal distance, but it's not as stable when keeping the scalar centered and can be subject to movement caused by extreme wind conditions. The movement caused by excess wind can be eliminated by attaching the aircraft cable and turnbuckles to the feed assembly in order to keep it centered.

Quad legs don't require this since there are 4 independent arms that hook to the scalar, making it much more stable, but it's a little more difficult to adjust the polarity and focal distance. Both work equally well, but one requires a little more work to achieve the same results. Your Co-Rotor II will work with either.

This is the turnbuckle I referred to.

This is aircraft cable.

It comes in various diameters, but 1/8 inch is sufficient in this application. I hope that answers your questions.

 

[ECruzBUD]

Hey WVman!!!!

Thanks for the photos!!!!
That helps!!!

But I wish there's a picture that wold show
a demonstration of the "Turnbuckle".
I can't "visualize" a picture of where would
the Turnbuckle be on????
Would it be on the servo motor cable and cables
from the receiver??? Or would it be on what????

I think you're right that the Turnbuckle might be easier
than those BIG stuff.

The Bottom hook would be hard to do, and I fully understand it.

I have 4 independent legs already on the BUD but MAYBE that's
the other problem. Since it's been 17 and a half years, I haven't
or haven't had someone to check to see if those 4 independent arms
are tighten onto the dish. You know??? The bolt and nuts behind it to
see if it has been loosen for that many years. Probably all got rusted...
Because it has went through wind storms for 17 years, now.

What do you think????

Can you find or draw picture of the Turnbuckle as an example???

Thanks, WVman
Eugene
Seattle, WA.

 

[wvman]

Hey WVman!!!!

Thanks for the photos!!!!
That helps!!!

But I wish there's a picture that wold show
a demonstration of the "Turnbuckle".
I can't "visualize" a picture of where would
the Turnbuckle be on????
Would it be on the servo motor cable and cables
from the receiver??? Or would it be on what????

I think you're right that the Turnbuckle might be easier
than those BIG stuff.

The Bottom hook would be hard to do, and I fully understand it.

I have 4 independent legs already on the BUD but MAYBE that's
the other problem. Since it's been 17 and a half years, I haven't
or haven't had someone to check to see if those 4 independent arms
are tighten onto the dish. You know??? The bolt and nuts behind it to
see if it has been loosen for that many years. Probably all got rusted...
Because it has went through wind storms for 17 years, now.

What do you think????

Can you find or draw picture of the Turnbuckle as an example???

Thanks, WVman
Eugene
Seattle, WA.

If you have 4 legs supporting the Scalar, LNB's and Feed, you have a Quad leg feed assembly and you won't need the turnbuckles and aircraft cable. The scalar ring needs to be perfectly centered in the middle of the dish. In other words, if you measure from the outer edge of the dish at 4 points 90 degrees apart to the edge of the scalar and the measurements are the same, then the feed is centered.

Here's something you may want to read to give you and idea how critical it is to get everything at the feed right. C-Band TV Installation Basics It's a little intimidating to someone who hasn't installed dishes, but it's good reading to understand what you're dealing with. It's hard to demonstrate some of the procedures by posting it in here, but with a little trial and error, it can be accomplished.

I installed C-band dishes for many years, but once everything went digital, I still run into a head scratcher ocassionally. One thing is if you pick up a free dish, NEVER assume the last guy installed it correctly. It may work, kinda sort of, but if everything is not optimal, you're losing signal and certain channels will not come in or stay in. Hope this helps.

 

[ECruzBUD]

Hi WVman,

YES, I do have 4 legs supporting the Scarlar, holding up the feehorn with LNB.
Are you saying that I would need to have a Quad leg feed assembly???

Looking at the picture of the Quad that you sent me, it's hard to see which
one is a Quad. Because of all those trees behind it that blend into it.
It looks like 4 legs supporting in that picture. I don't see the 5th leg "Quad".

Then I would say the 5th leg supporting???

Eugene

 

[ECruzBUD]

Hey WVman,

This is Eugene, again.

I thought of sending you my pictures of my BUD 1.
To show you the 4 legs I have.
Can you draw a line of "Quad" to imagine where it
would be???
I sent you 3 photos, each has different angle of the 4 legs.

By the way, you're also looking at TODAY'S weather, here in Seattle.
It's cloudy, but rained over night, and earlier this morning.
So, things are WET, now.

I don't trust the Meteorologist who said it's going to be sunny and part cloudy.

What do you think??? Hope that you and EVERYONE can see the photos.

Eugene

P.S. By the way, the photos you're looking at, the BUD 1
is facing at GO satellite. I mean, G18 C-band satellite, in
the photos.

 

[wvman]

Hey WVman,

This is Eugene, again.

I thought of sending you my pictures of my BUD 1.
To show you the 4 legs I have.
Can you draw a line of "Quad" to imagine where it
would be???
I sent you 3 photos, each has different angle of the 4 legs.

By the way, you're also looking at TODAY'S weather, here in Seattle.
It's cloudy, but rained over night, and earlier this morning.
So, things are WET, now.

I don't trust the Meteorologist who said it's going to be sunny and part cloudy.

What do you think??? Hope that you and EVERYONE can see the photos.

Eugene

P.S. By the way, the photos you're looking at, the BUD 1
is facing at GO satellite. I mean, G18 C-band satellite, in
the photos.

View attachment 136508 View attachment 136509 View attachment 136510 View attachment 136508 View attachment 136509 View attachment 136510

Quad just means there are 4 legs holding everything under the black hood out in front of your dish. Your dish already has them.