about to jump into the HD waters, so some (probably) stupid questions

[dadsquared]

I'm about to take the plunge into HD- my current tv is well over 17 years old, and our Dish Network receiver is at least 11 years old (it came with the house). I know that, for Dish Network, I will need a new satellite and a new receiver. Question number one is this: will I need a new run of coax into the house?

I ask this because a dish Network rep I spoke with said that I might need a new cable coming in, since the old one "is not specific for HD" . I DO know a little about coax, and I'm assuming that R6 is- well, R6! but a new installation of cable from Dish Network could get expensive, because the actual dish is about 180 feet from our house (the only clearing in the little forest where we live!).

Question number 2 is this: Will I need to run two coax cables into the house if I want to watch programming on two televisions? The receiver I was considering- the DouDVR VIP 722k- sure makes it SOUND like that it's ONE coax in from the dish, then the signal is split at the receiver, and then sends (standard definition) signal to the second television. I asked this question to the Dish Network representative I spoke with, and bless her heart, she just had a hard time understanding what I was asking.

Thank you for your time, and please forgive the possible stupidity of these questions; I tried searching the forums here, and couldn't find exactly what I'm looking for (however, I DID find enough posts to give me the impression that the switch to HD is no walk in the park! )

Jeff

 

[Dah-Henny]

1. RG6 is RG6
2. One cable from sat to receiver, most likely. One more from receiver to TV2.

 

[boomerang]

I'm not an expert by any means in all of this but I will give you my thoughts and they will be corrected I'm certain if I am wrong.

Based on your description, it sounds as though the existing coax is RG6 that is buried. On that assumption, and based upon the time period it has been buried, you may be better off having it replaced. Dish is using cable rated for burial now. My concern based on your description is if you will have line of site issues to a different gaggle of satellites. I base this on your "little forest" statement.

With one receiver (the 722k) serving two TV's, you will only need one coax into the house. Your understanding of how it will function is correct.

Edit: I just was able to get rid of a dish that was on a pole for ten years in my own little forest. I originally had one line buried, but before it was over, I had added 3 more. During that 10 year timeframe, I "lost" one line of coax. I lost it because water intruded into a connector above ground. Not because of a failure under ground. So, take my thoughts on the subject of buried coax with a grain of salt. And once again, this is all based on the assumption you have buried coax.

 

[radtech]

Jeff,

I had the very same installation in the past three months. I have a VIP722K and a 1000.2 dish receiving the western arc (110, 119, 129). The main room where the 722K is located has the HD tv and uses a HDMI cable to feed it. The rest of the house uses an rf system and is fed via very old rg-59 coax from rf output of the 722K to the standard def sets in the other rooms. It works very well. I think you will be happy with it. I know we are. The nice thing is that you will not have to pay an additional receiver fee with this set up. You will have to pay the $6 per month dvr fee, but we think it is well worth it for the dvr service.

Now, to answer your question about the coax coming in from the dish. You really only need a single coax for the 722K and if your existing line is RG-6 it will probably work. But, Since it is 11 years old, I would not recommend using it. I think my installer said that they would run up to 150 feet if necessary, so it is possible that there might be a small additional charge, but it would be worth it for new coax. If you help the installer run it like I did (I buried it myself), there might not even be an additional charge.

BTW, my installer used a dual RG-6 cable with a built-in messenger cable for grounding purposes. I think it makes sense to run a dual cable in case you would want another receiver at some point or if one of the cables were to fail.

Ed

 

[dadsquared]

I appreciate all the replies, and am glad to hear that there isn't a new kind of coax called RG6HD or something like that...

boomerang: at the moment, my coax isn't buried, thanks to an accident recently involving our local tree service and a stump grinder. So the outside coax isn't 11 years old- I just ran a new section to the house entrance, and used a barrel connector. This incident, ironically, was what led to HD talk around here- since I plan on one long uninterrupted run (180 from house to receiver plus 50 more to the tv= 230 foot cable- yikes!), I wanted to make sure that I was replacing it with "the right stuff".

Now, boomerang- this "gaggle of satellites" comment has caused me to break out in a cold sweat. it might be best to get in touch with a local Dish Network installer to see if we can get those satellites from the current location.

thanks again for all the replies, everyone- there's certainly a lot to learn, but I'm assuming the end result will be worth it, if I don't lose my mind in the process.

 

[Koilvr]

If your going to get HD then you will end up with with 3 Lnbs eastern arc ( 77, 72.7 61.5 ) or western arc ( 110, 119, 129 ) on 1 dish or mixed with 2 dishes 1.( 61.5) 2.(110, 119, 129) depends where your local HD is, each lnb has a coaxial cable to a dp switch to the side of your house. I have 2 dishes on 2 poles mounted in my yard and have 4 cables buried in the ground to the side of the house into a cabinet where my dp switch is and then to my home distribution to get tv 2 out to 5 tvs. The Vip722k is what gets 1 coax from the Dp switch.

 

[scoobyxj]

If you only have one line coming from the dish location to the house then I can guarantee they will want to run new dual coax with the ground messenger, and ground the system if possible.
If the line entering the house is easy to replace the installer may just replace it as well considering the age. Dish Pro Plus system will work up to about 250' so you should be fine with the 230' run. A cable bury of up to 50' is what you get as part of standard installation. After the 50' you either have to pay extra, or do the burying yourself. I'm going to say the same thing as boomerang about the LOS thing. Your comment leads me to think you probably won't even be able to get the bird needed for HD programming.

 

[Koilvr]

The cables are orange if you want to know the color.

 

[dadsquared]

this is about the time that I see if the wife has any Tylenol in the medicine cabinet, because it's clear this isn't going to be what I'm used to...

Koilvr, your (clearly knowledgeable) reply is going to send me to Wikipedia to look up Lnbs and "eastern arc" and "western arc". I am thankful that there are knowledgeable people on this forum!!!!

scoobyxj- replacing the inside wiring should be no big deal- our house has a basement with a dropped ceiling, and I've poked around in there many times. I'll probably just get new coax, crimp on a connector, and use a barrel connector to attach it to the old coax. Then I'll go outside and (gently!) pull the old out until the new one emerges. I've done this with our over the air antenna a couple of times in the past. But if they are going to insist on dual coax, I could do that too- I'll just make sure I have PVC pipes ready, unless they are using some of the direct burial coax- which I'm assuming they aren't.

...of course, none of this matters if I can't "get the bird"- and I have no clue what that means; see? complete newbie with all of this!

Anyway- you guys are great- thanks for sharing the knowledge!

 

[jwolf]

Isn't the RG6 from dish sweep tested past 2.2 Mhz. now?

I would ask the installer about that, as eleven year old RG6 won't be rated up to that point. I would assume, scary to do, that the installer would replace the outside RG6 anyway.

 

[whatchel1]

DishPointer & The List.

this is about the time that I see if the wife has any Tylenol in the medicine cabinet, because it's clear this isn't going to be what I'm used to...

Koilvr, your (clearly knowledgeable) reply is going to send me to Wikipedia to look up Lnbs and "eastern arc" and "western arc". I am thankful that there are knowledgeable people on this forum!!!!

scoobyxj- replacing the inside wiring should be no big deal- our house has a basement with a dropped ceiling, and I've poked around in there many times. I'll probably just get new coax, crimp on a connector, and use a barrel connector to attach it to the old coax. Then I'll go outside and (gently!) pull the old out until the new one emerges. I've done this with our over the air antenna a couple of times in the past. But if they are going to insist on dual coax, I could do that too- I'll just make sure I have PVC pipes ready, unless they are using some of the direct burial coax- which I'm assuming they aren't.

...of course, none of this matters if I can't "get the bird"- and I have no clue what that means; see? complete newbie with all of this!

Anyway- you guys are great- thanks for sharing the knowledge!

Go to the links at the top of the page to find out sats you need to be pointing to. The List will let you find where your local channels are and the DishPointer will show where the sats are in relationship to your house. You may want to bury a plastic pipe to run the cable thru. That would be on you since that isn't standard install.

 

[boomerang]

The term "bird" is slang for a satellite.

I highly recommend the DishPointer link above. You can plug in your address and get a view of your property. You can then select from a list of satellites, or better yet, a dish itself. There has been reference here to Eastern Arc and Western Arc. Each is made up of three separate satellites. You will need a clear line of sight (referred to here as LOS) to either of those.

The Eastern Arc satellites will need a 1000.4 dish in order for them to be received. The Western Arc will need a 1000.2 dish to be received. They point in different directions.

Both the 1000.2 and the 1000.4 dishes are in the drop down list at the DishPointer site. You can drag around the location of the dish to see what location will most likely work for you. It's pretty cool. Elevation is an issue too and the site can help with that, but to simplify your life, just have Dish come out and tell you what's what. You can mess around at the DishPointer site to get an idea if it's even feasible.

I've only got one location at my home for a dish to receive HD programming on the Eastern Arc 1000.4 dish due to trees. But, that's all I need.

 

[whatchel1]

jk

I've only got one location at my home for a dish to receive HD programming on the Eastern Arc 1000.4 dish due to trees. But, that's all I need.

Dang you and all those green things. Cut them down.

 

[R0ss]

If your going to get HD then you will end up with with 3 Lnbs eastern arc ( 77, 72.7 61.5 ) or western arc ( 110, 119, 129 ) on 1 dish or mixed with 2 dishes 1.( 61.5) 2.(110, 119, 129) depends where your local HD is, each lnb has a coaxial cable to a dp switch to the side of your house. I have 2 dishes on 2 poles mounted in my yard and have 4 cables buried in the ground to the side of the house into a cabinet where my dp switch is and then to my home distribution to get tv 2 out to 5 tvs. The Vip722k is what gets 1 coax from the Dp switch.

It sounds like the OP is going to have a fairly standard install either an "arc", 110/119 with a wing (61.5 or 129)in which case he will still only need one cable to the house for one receiver since with the wing can plug into the lnb of the 110/119. For that matter if he needed an arc with a wing for some reason the wing could also plug into the lnb of the arc so no external switch needed. Of course there are exceptions and his little forest mught present issues none3 of us can imagine!

Ross

 

[whatchel1]

Mixed arc's are no no's

It sounds like the OP is going to have a fairly standard install either an "arc", 110/119 with a wing (61.5 or 129)in which case he will still only need one cable to the house for one receiver since with the wing can plug into the lnb of the 110/119. For that matter if he needed an arc with a wing for some reason the wing could also plug into the lnb of the arc so no external switch needed. Of course there are exceptions and his little forest mught present issues none3 of us can imagine!

Ross

110/119/61.5 doesn't work anymore. Will be missing too much HD. Mixed arc like that just doesn't work anymore.

 

[R0ss]

LNB is the thing that sticks out in front of the dish. Signals bounce off the dish to the lnb .

Your current dish (Dish500)has an LNB that is designed to receive the 110/119 satellites

Dish has two recommended setups for receiveing HD They are refered to as Eastern Arc and Western Arc, names are derived from sat location.

Eastern Azr uses the 1000.4 dish and has three LNB's it points at 61.5/72.7/77

Western arc uses the 1000.2 dish and also has three lnb's 110/119/129

Take the advice and go to dishpointer see what you can figure out, come back and ask more questions too it helps to be informed before during and after the process.

By all means offere to help it will save time and will definitly make the insatller feel good.

Try to keep the barrel connectors to a minimum if you can (even in the house) You can have problems if there are too many. Not suggesting you run new cable in the house just don't patch things together, you will be better off in the long run if you need to to get rg6 and run some new cable.

GHood luck

Ross

 

[dadsquared]

watchel1 and boomerang- thanks for the info regarding the DishPointer link- I've wasted more than a few minutes dragging my "virtual dish" around the outside, trying to find the "perfect" location (and using the "obstruction" thingy to get an estimate of tree height). If I put the dish on my house, the nearest tree can't be any more than 11 feet tall! So the dish is in our clearing for a reason! And judging from what I've seen on DishPointer, there's a CHANCE that I might be able to get 1000.2 and 1000.4 Our neighbor's trees appear to be in the way of 1000.4, but I'm doubting those trees are more than 235 feet tall...

R0ss- we have quite a few trees on the property. When we moved here 11 years ago, we had a surveyor come out to give us an idea of how many trees were on our 5 acres. He was here for five minutes, said "I'm not charging you folks for this- the terrain is too rugged. I'm calling it 500 trees per acre, average." Surrounding our place, there are 72 mature trees taller than our two story house. Plus side: nice and shady in the summer. Down side: satellite dish 180 feet from house.

 

[dadsquared]

Thanks for the info, R0ss- do I need to be able to get BOTH eastern arc AND western arc for HD? Or is one enough?

And don't worry- no barrel connectors for the final run of coax, although they are GREAT for helping pull a new strand of coax through the house! Once it's outside, unhook the old coax, take it to the antenna, go back indoors and strip and crimp, and all is well- at least when we're talking antennas!

 

[whatchel1]

1 arc is all you need. It just depends on you local channels as to which one you should get.

 

[dadsquared]

actually, we have no local channels on Dish here in Indiana at the moment- our ABC/NBC/Fox are provided by all american direct- is that something that will be affected by the move to HD and a new satellite?

I think our local CBS station (which we use an antenna to receive) is SUPPOSED to be on Dish sometime in June, so we'll see what happens there.