Analog and Digital

[PopcornNMore]

For the last two days I have been trying to receive both analog and digital signals on Galaxy 16 with limited success. I have the cox from the LNB going into the digital receiver and the IF OUT of the digital receiver going into the "C" input on the analog receiver.

When switching polarities using the digital receiver is it ok to have both the digital and analog receiver ON at the same time? Or should you use the digital receiver to switch to a V or H channel, turn the digital receiver OFF and then turn on the analog receiver?

For some odd reason I started receiving the same channels in digital on both V and H polarities using a WS International C band LNBF and a Coolsat 71000 receiver. I then switched the LNBF to a Geosat and had the same problems. So, I switched the Coolsat receiver to a Satpro and no longer saw the problem. It was as if the Coolsat receiver wasn't switching the polarity.

Not only did I change the C band LNBF I also changed the coax to a 100' RG-6 quad I purchased from Monoprice. I am wondering if the coax is causing some of these unexpected problems.

 

[Anole]

I"m uncomfortable daisy-chaining receivers without having 100% understanding of what they'll do. -
And since I don't... I won't! -

1). Disconnect the Analog receiver! - :rant:- and put it in the garage!

2). If you hook any one FTA receiver to your 100' piece of coax, and it controls the DMX741 on the far end correctly, then that's good to know.

3). if you connect another FTA receiver to your coax 'n LNBF and only get one polarity, that suggests the receiver isn't voltage-switching.
Ya may have a burned out LNB regulator, or some other damage.

I didn't think this was supposed to happen, but see my caveat at the top of this post! -

4). of course, it's possible one of your receivers just isn't up to the load of the long cable (improbable)
So, check the voltage at the far end of the cable (@ the LNB, with the LNBf plugged in) and switch between Horizontal (18v) and Vertical (13v) and let us know.

Diagnosing the problem should be a snap, since you have multiple receivers, a meter, and multiple LNBf's.
... and as a last resort, you -could- take any of these receivers out to the LNB, I assume.

 

[Mr Tony]

1). Disconnect the Analog receiver! - :rant:- and put it in the garage!

since he is aimed at G16 and there are analog feeds there still I say keep it hooked up

 

[PopcornNMore]

I"m uncomfortable daisy-chaining receivers without having 100% understanding of what they'll do. -
And since I don't... I won't! -

1). Disconnect the Analog receiver! - :rant:- and put it in the garage!

2). If you hook any one FTA receiver to your 100' piece of coax, and it controls the DMX741 on the far end correctly, then that's good to know.

3). if you connect another FTA receiver to your coax 'n LNBF and only get one polarity, that suggests the receiver isn't voltage-switching.
Ya may have a burned out LNB regulator, or some other damage.

I didn't think this was supposed to happen, but see my caveat at the top of this post! -

4). of course, it's possible one of your receivers just isn't up to the load of the long cable (improbable)
So, check the voltage at the far end of the cable (@ the LNB, with the LNBf plugged in) and switch between Horizontal (18v) and Vertical (13v) and let us know.

Diagnosing the problem should be a snap, since you have multiple receivers, a meter, and multiple LNBf's.
... and as a last resort, you -could- take any of these receivers out to the LNB, I assume.

Thank you for the help. Remove the analog receiver and move to the garage...NEVER! There is still plenty of good programming on analog these days. In fact, i'm seeing an increase rather than a decrease.

This is what I did:
1) Removed the 100' coax and reinstalled Coolsat 4000 upstairs using the same Geosat C band LNBF. Result: I saw channels scanning in as both V and H just like I saw downstairs using 100' of coax and a Coolsat 7100 receiver. I then tried adjusting the zero from 9 o'clock to 12 o'clock and I could not get this problem to go away plus some channels like the networks couldn't scan in and the signal level was down on all stations just like I saw downstairs. Both the WS International and Geosat C band LNB's produce the same results with the Geosat performing a little better than the WS INternational LNBF.

2) I then decided to go back to the same setup as in the beginning and reinstall the DMS International C/KU LNBF with the Coolsat 4000 and shorter coax. I performed a scan with the zero at 12 o'clock which this LNBF likes and all the channels scanned in correctly (V and H) with much higher signal strengths. Plus it provides KU band as well, so this is the LNBF I am going to stick with on this dish (180 cm).

3) I then attached the 100' coax and hooked up the Coolsat 7100 downstairs using the same DMS International C/KU band LNBF without doing any adjustments. Result: Signal strength downstairs is much stronger as well, but channels still scan in as both V and H and changing the polarity has no effect on the signal. So, I am thinking it is the 100' coax being too long to cause it not to switch or the Coolsat 7100 is at fault.

Which brings me to my original question:
When having an analog receiver hooked up to the IF OUT of a digital receiver is it ok to keep the digital receiver ON or should you use it to switch polarity and then turn OFF before turning on the analog receiver?

Since I bought this Coolsat 7100 just recently and never really used it too much it is possible that it didn't switch polarities from the beginning. I think I will bring down my Coolsat 4000 and attach to the 100' coax to confirm if it is the receiver or the coax length. I will also take measurements.

Get rid on my analog receivers...that is just silly talk.

 

[Mr Tony]

When switching polarities using the digital receiver is it ok to have both the digital and analog receiver ON at the same time? Or should you use the digital receiver to switch to a V or H channel, turn the digital receiver OFF and then turn on the analog receiver?

I have both on with no issues. This is the azbox and the Toshiba TRX1420. I do have a dc block in the line from the azbox to the Toshiba but it works either way

For some odd reason I started receiving the same channels in digital on both V and H polarities using a WS International C band LNBF and a Coolsat 71000 receiver. I then switched the LNBF to a Geosat and had the same problems. So, I switched the Coolsat receiver to a Satpro and no longer saw the problem. It was as if the Coolsat receiver wasn't switching the polarity.

Not only did I change the C band LNBF I also changed the coax to a 100' RG-6 quad I purchased from Monoprice. I am wondering if the coax is causing some of these unexpected problems.

very possible. If you just use the DVB receiver does it switch polarities?
What Geosat LNB? I use a C2 (dual C-Band only) and it works just fine

 

[PopcornNMore]

I'm going to begin placing dc blocks inline as well.

Good News:
I brought the Coolsat 4000 (love this receiver) downstairs and used with the 100' coax and DMS International LNBF. It worked perfectly and all channels had a high signal strength (even analog was near sparkle free). When I switched polarities from V to H I could see the signal come and go away as expected. So, this tells me that my Coolsat 7100 is at fault. Either it was like this when I purchased it or something heppened as I was using it with an analog receiver.

Thank you Iceberg for answering my question about powering both receivers at once. I will be sure to purchase some DC blocks to have on hand for next time.

 

[Mr Tony]

you only need one dc block. I placed it on the input of the analog

azbox loop out-------cable--dc block--input of Toshiba

That dc block makes sure the analog doesnt try to send any signal

 

[PopcornNMore]

you only need one dc block. I placed it on the input of the analog

azbox loop out-------cable--dc block--input of Toshiba

That dc block makes sure the analog doesnt try to send any signal

I realize that I only need one DC block. I'm ordering a couple because I have a small supply (60 +) of analog receivers.

I just found something interesting which may confirm that I need a DC block. I hooked up a SatPros receiver with the IF out going to an analog receiver and scanned in WHT which appeared at both H and V having almost the same signal strength. I thought "oh no, my problem continues". I then while on the (V) WHT channel removed the coax from the IF OUT going to the analog receiver and I lost the signal. I then switched to the H channel of WHT and it appeared as normal. Switching back to the fake (V) WHT channel I reconnected the coax to the IF OUT of the digital receiver and the signal came back.

My Coolsat 7100 might be working afterall. I just need to try having the IF out disconnected while performing a blind scan.

 

[Mr Tony]

weird. sounds like the analog receiver is trying to overpower the DVB receiver. As I mentioned in a post if you hook the analog directly to the LNB you'll get H polarity.

The DC block will take care of that issue

 

[PopcornNMore]

My Coolsat 7100 seems to be working correctly when the IF OUT is disconnected. When connected the Coolsat 7100 is unable to switch between the V and H polarities causing channels to scan in double for V and H.

This makes me wonder if we should be adding a terminator onto the IF OUT of the digital receiver, so that interference won't be picked up.

 

[Mr Tony]

so when the analog is attached it doesnt work?

if so, just put a dc block on the input of the analog receiver and you should be fine

 

[PopcornNMore]

Correct, once the analog is connected the digital receiver is unable to switch polarities. I will install a DC block to see if that corrects the problem.

 

[Mr Tony]

that **should** correct the problem

Or if in the menus you can turn off the LNB power...but I dont think analog receivers could do that

 

[PopcornNMore]

Tonight I placed a DC block onto the input of the analog receiver and now receive both V and H analog channels. Thank you Iceberg!

As of 6:57PM the following analog channels on Galaxy 16 are active:
TP 10 - Quarterly Market Update
TP 16 - Shepherd's Chapel
TP 17 - Disney - ABC
TP 18 - Judge Alex

 

[Mr Tony]

Shepherd's Chapel is 24/7...the other are feeds

congrats on getting it working. Sometimes you need to use those DC Blocks

 

[Mikhel]

Wait... am i missing something here?

If i connect my Geosat C2 to my Pansat 2500a, and then connect a short coaxial with a DC blocker, to the input of my old Uniden analog receiver, my analog can also receive channels?

I have not been able to get any analog since i replaced my old servo LNBFs (a couple of those since the servo was malfunctioning and it would cost me the same to order two servos than two Geosat C2 with 4 total outputs).

If this works... NEAT!!

Cheers

M.

 

[B.J.]

This is all a perfect example of why you should always use a DC-block on the pass-thru of these DVB receivers. The analog receiver, or a second FTA receiver on horizontal, will put out 18V, so that depending upon to what extent the first receiver isolates the pass-thru, if at all, when the first DVB receiver tries to go to vertical at 13V, the analog or 2nd DVB receiver can over-ride the 13V and send 18V to the LNB. It's also very possible that the 18V can get into the first receiver causing damage. And if the 2nd receiver happens to be putting out 13V while the 1st receiver is putting out 18V, again depending upon how the first receiver is designed, it's possible to send voltage back into the 2nd receiver.
Although I've seen many people say they use passthrus without DC blocks, it simply isn't worth the risk.
I also no longer trust those splitters with the one DC-pass leg and the other ports supposedly protected by DC-blocks. I recently posted about issues I've had with one of these as well, in that it didn't isolate voltage between receivers that were supposed to be protected by the internal DC blocks.
Anyway, I like to always use DC blocks, unless I am certain that the splitters I'm using are really working.

 

[phlatwound]

This is all a perfect example of why you should always use a DC-block on the pass-thru of these DVB receivers.......

B.J., (or anyone) could you post a link to one of these DC-blocks?

I am unsure as to exactly what you are talking about and didn't find anything on any of the sponsors' websites that I was sure was the correct part, thanks.

 

[B.J.]

B.J., (or anyone) could you post a link to one of these DC-blocks?

I am unsure as to exactly what you are talking about and didn't find anything on any of the sponsors' websites that I was sure was the correct part, thanks.

I'm not sure what a current source of them would be. I got all mine from Radio Shack, however I noticed that they don't seem to have them listed on their web page anymore. I went into 2 Radio Shack stores, and one didn't have them, but the second one still had one or two. So if you have an old radio shack store around they might have a couple. Sadoun used to have them I think, but I just looked, and couldn't find them.

Re a description of them, they are similar to one of those little barrel connectors, except that they are male on one end, female on the other, ie about an inch long. I just leave them connected to the passthru ports on my receivers, and connect slaved receivers to them instead of direct.

I'm sure some on line store must still stock them, but I don't know which do.

 

[Mr Tony]

Wait... am i missing something here?

If i connect my Geosat C2 to my Pansat 2500a, and then connect a short coaxial with a DC blocker, to the input of my old Uniden analog receiver, my analog can also receive channels?

you are correct...or if you hook a line directly from the analog to the C2 you can receive Horizontal TP analog channels only