Analog Audio?

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Techfizzle

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Apr 18, 2008
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I talked to someone ~2 years ago that was a ham radio nut that owned a BUD system back in the 80s he told me there were hundreds of free radio stations on c and ku band analog.

Is there ANY analog audio left on c or ku or is it all digital?
 

jayelem

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jan 5, 2006
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Chicago suburbs.
I talked to someone ~2 years ago that was a ham radio nut that owned a BUD system back in the 80s he told me there were hundreds of free radio stations on c and ku band analog.

Is there ANY analog audio left on c or ku or is it all digital?

I remember back in the 80's my Birdview Analog receiver had a knob for audio and I used the ORBIT Satellite TV Guide as a reference for the Audio stations , oh and whenever there was a Analog feed of a syndicated show and it had alternate audio like SAP they would have a title screen with all the info needed prior to the feeds start.

As to what's left on the Audio side of analog at present , I have no idea.
 

turbosat

SatelliteGuys Master
Dec 26, 2006
9,001
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Oneonta,AL
Short answer is no. Most of the audio subcarriers are gone. Used to be lots of free radio on c-band, one of my favorites was called Xtra104 I think it was frm DC area, oldie moldies. They're prob gone from the air now anyway lol. I guess most of them went to digital or other methods of transmission, or their intended customers disappeared and their need to be on satellite ended.
You're about 15yrs too late for those days.
 

skysurfer

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Dec 1, 2006
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there's only 2-3 analog subcarrier audio channels left that are not network cue tones or SAP channels.

there are quite a few (hundreds) on 4DTV and DVB FTA setups.
 

Mr Tony

SatelliteGuys Pro
Supporting Founder
Nov 17, 2003
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Mankato, MN
no i meant analog ones, the ones in the list have a-pids so they are digital

well lets see skysurfer sais they were digital

there are quite a few (hundreds) on 4DTV and DVB FTA setups.

but since you want to argue about analog......Lyngsat can be your friend. But since I was bored here is what is out there

AMC11
C-Span Radio 5.20 off C-Span

G15
EWTN Global Radio 5.40 off EWTN
EWTN Espanol 5.58 off EWTN

WGSP-AM 7.58 off Inspiration

there ya go :)
 

B.J.

SatelliteGuys Pro
Oct 15, 2008
2,029
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Western Maine
Back in the old analog days, there were two types of analog audio channels. What is described above are the subcarriers that were often described as FM^2, particularly if they were on channels that didn't have analog video, but they were on channels with and without video. The ones on regular video channels could be tuned in with the regular analog receivers, but the other ones needed to be tuned with a communications receiver tuned to the baseband output of the analog receiver.

The second type of analog audio were the SCPC analog signals. These either requirred a communications receiver capable of receiving in the 950-1450 band directly off the coax from the LNB, or some people did it with a communications receiver connected to the 70 mHz loop of the analog receiver (some receivers had the loop at another freq, like 140MHz), which is about a 40 MHz band covering the channel that the receiver is tuned to.

There used to be about an equal number of audio channels on FM^2 and SCPC modes, but the last time I checked, which was several years ago, they were 98% gone. It was such a time consuming job searching for the darn things, that it became not worth the effort looking for them.

When those things were there though, it was really fun finding them. In addition to regular audio, there were APT images sent up there with weather maps from the GOES satellites rebroadcasted on regular TVRO sats, along with those AP/UPI type pictures that you'd see in the newspaper the next day. It was a lot of fun doing FM^2 / SCPC stuff.
 

skysurfer

SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 1, 2006
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but since you want to argue about analog......Lyngsat can be your friend. But since I was bored here is what is out there

AMC11
C-Span Radio 5.20 off C-Span

G15
EWTN Global Radio 5.40 off EWTN
EWTN Espanol 5.58 off EWTN

WGSP-AM 7.58 off Inspiration

there ya go :)

yep, those are the analog ones left. not much.

B.J. I should go check the FM2 ones. I haven't looked at those in a while. I woudn't be surprised if half of all the ones I logged a few months ago are left, since the muzak's are apparently going to digital delivery as we speak.

if you have an analog receiver for the 3-4 analog asc's left, a scanner for the FM2 a FTA receiver and digicipher II for the digital ones, you probably have at least 500 channels of audio to listen to.
 

emuman100

SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 15, 2007
247
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Pennsylvania
Yeah, as everyone said, C-band analog radio channels are just about gone. It's an unfortunate shame though, because finding them is fun. For the SCPC analog audio, I'm guessing you'd use a receiver with a 70MHz IF output and use an FM scanner. For something like C-SPAN radio, you could use the baseband output, but I'm not sure what the frequency range of the baseband output is. I'm not sure of the frequency range of the 70MHz IF output is. Does anyone know?
 

B.J.

SatelliteGuys Pro
Oct 15, 2008
2,029
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Western Maine
Yeah, as everyone said, C-band analog radio channels are just about gone. It's an unfortunate shame though, because finding them is fun. For the SCPC analog audio, I'm guessing you'd use a receiver with a 70MHz IF output and use an FM scanner. For something like C-SPAN radio, you could use the baseband output, but I'm not sure what the frequency range of the baseband output is. I'm not sure of the frequency range of the 70MHz IF output is. Does anyone know?

I think the 70 MHz loop gives you at least the 50-90 MHz band, ie centered at 70.

I seem to remember though, that people who did SCPC via 70 MHz seemed to have more problems with frequency drift than those who received the L band directly, although I can't remember why. I usually used the direct L band myself, using an Icom 7000 (this had a "hole" from 1000-1025 though).

Relative to the bandwidth of the baseband out port, while the actual bandwidth is more than 30 MHz, probably 40 MHz (since I've used it up to 32362 for SR determination), it's useful upper limit for subcarriers is probably in the 8-10 MHz range, because the bandwidth used by a subcarrier is something like twice the subcarrier freq plus the deviation (or something close to that), so it's usually about 2-3 times the actual freq of the subcarrier on the carrier.
 

B.J.

SatelliteGuys Pro
Oct 15, 2008
2,029
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Western Maine
What would be the tuning range of the baseband output?

The baseband output is an output of most analog receivers which is similar to the video output, except it's not filtered. If you connect a SW receiver (capable of FM in several bandwidths) to this output, you can tune in the 0 to 40 MHz range, looking for SR values for digital signals found at the center freq that the analog receiver is tuned to. The SR signals are usually a quieting signal, ie no static.
If you are looking for subcarriers, you can tune in the 0 to 8 or 10 MHz range on the FM SW receiver. For example, if there is an analog channel on the transponder you're tuned to, the SW receiver will play the audio if you tune to 6.8, sometimes 6.2, and the Canadians used to have a few other audio freqs, like 5.8 or something. Usually up around 7.1 or so, there used to be a Morse code signal identifying the transponder. Other subcarriers can be anywhere between around 5 and 8 MHz. If there is no video channel there, the subcarriers can be anywhere. I've seen them down less than 1 MHz, and up to mid 7 MHz range.
 

skysurfer

SatelliteGuys Pro
Dec 1, 2006
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I seem to remember though, that people who did SCPC via 70 MHz seemed to have more problems with frequency drift than those who received the L band directly, although I can't remember why.

Probably because the older LNA's were not as frequency stable as current LNBs are. Maybe if you were a radio station back then and could afford really good LNA's, you might have something stable enough to tune without frequent drifting.

I use a Icom R100 (old version, not the later frequency chopped version) that gives me like 5 mhz to 1800 mhz coverage, so I can tune all the SCPC without missing some through the L-band frequency range.
 

B.J.

SatelliteGuys Pro
Oct 15, 2008
2,029
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Western Maine
Originally Posted by B.J.
I seem to remember though, that people who did SCPC via 70 MHz seemed to have more problems with frequency drift than those who received the L band directly, although I can't remember why.
Probably because the older LNA's were not as frequency stable as current LNBs are. Maybe if you were a radio station back then and could afford really good LNA's, you might have something stable enough to tune without frequent drifting.

I use a Icom R100 (old version, not the later frequency chopped version) that gives me like 5 mhz to 1800 mhz coverage, so I can tune all the SCPC without missing some through the L-band frequency range.

I wasn't referring to using the 70 MHz from LNAs, I was referring to using the 70 MHz loop on a modern LNB type receiver. People used to complain about the freq drift being a problem. I tried it once, and I had problems too, whereas I seldom had problems tuning the same lnb signal direct on the L band. I can't remember what the explanation was. Maybe the receiver has some sort of an AFC prior to the 70 MHz loop or something. I know that my current Drake has an AFC, and if I go to it's diagnostic screen where it shows the freq it's tuned to, and change channels, you can see the tuned freq wandering around looking for a signal, but I don't know if that AFC is before or after the loop. Actually, my Drake has a 140 MHz loop instead of a 70 MHz. I've never done the SCPC on the Drake's loop, I did that with an older Echostar 7000 (HT8+) which had a 70 MHz loop. With the Drake I've only monitored directly from the LNB.
The missing 25 MHz with the ICOM 7000 was annoying, and yeah, that Icom 100 was probably a better receiver for SCPC. I have used a Yaesu VR5000, and it didn't have any gaps, but it never worked quite as well as the ICOM. My VR5K still works, but it has lost it's display, so it's kind of hard to tell what freq it's on. I sent it back for repair, and they wanted more than the cost of a new one to fix it, even though it's a problem reported by several people.
BTW, I use the Icom 7000 for the SW SR determination, even though it is missing the 0-25 MHz band (which is the same band missing when you switch in the 1025-2000 band), but I have a 100MHz converter that shifts 0-40 MHz up to the 100-140 MHz range. Works very well. Reception is just as good on HF as my dedicated SW receivers.
 
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