Antenna Recommendation
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Looks like I will be doing the install by myself with a friend. Encountered a rather arrogant, insulting and know it all installer around 100 miles north of my location who apparently does not like my choice of antennas or desire not to put holes in my roof with a tripod mount or use a peak roof mount which would require bricks to hold it down and likely would become a problem with heavier snow and ice storms. Also, in neither case, could I easily access the installation especially in certain weather conditions if a repair was needed. Nobody will climb on a roof in the winter of course nor would I expect them to. I can't use a tower due to the cost and a bracketed tower won't work due to the gutters on my home and the peak in back is where the power lines run. No chimney either. The guy was completely unwilling to listen to what I wanted done and insulted my choice of antennas which are working well at my five foot ground level install. Inflexible as hell. He seems to think my pre amps are antiquated and with 3.0 coming won't work with them. Was trying to sell me on a lot of very expensive equipment that I don't need. $500 for a channel master rotor? Absurd.
Are all installers this pig headed these days and think they know it all? I have over 40 years of experience in low power radio and also installing and using TV antennas. I know Broadcasting Engineers and also have friends with vast technical knowledge on matters like this and never have they insulted me in this manner. I know what I am doing given the limitations that came with the property. Eave mount is best but he won't even entertain the idea despite the fact the antennas are small (Fracarro LP45f Log Periodic and Stellar Labs 30-2436 VHF).
I am getting signal overload on UHF which does suggest that a station in Muncie is the culprit. Every other signal is fair to weak there. Removed the Titan 2 circa 2010 and tried my Antennacraft 10g212 circa 2010 model and that works well with the UHF signals. Too weak to catch any of the VHF signals though.
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I don't need to receive any signals below WISH TV channel 9. I found by using my Winegard 3800 VHF only pre amp circa 2010, that my WISH VHF signal jumped from a 54 to 55 percent reading to 61 and 62 percent reading. WTHR was even stronger. Since all the UHF signals I want to watch are stronger than these signals, there is no need for a stronger UHF antenna unless I dispense with the pre amp. I did test the Super G 1483 without a pre amp at the 5 foot level but it did lead to interference from the station in Muncie. Ch. 49 or real Ch. 19.
Here is what I believe will work best. I can mount the Fracarro and Stellar Labs antennas above the peak of the roof off the front corner of my home with a home made base and mast. I used this method at a home in MO years ago and it worked fine. Handled a large Winegard antenna 7084 with a rotor and it worked just fine. Had it at 20 feet. That was another home that had issues with doing an installation due to it being a single floor and trees all around it and again, the design.
Need some input on the following. I may still buy the Televes pre amp mentioned by Mike but I am a little uncertain if the VHF gain on that is going to be adequate for Ch. 9. The Winegard 8275 could not get it. The Antennacraft 10g212 could not get it. The Titan 2 does but the overload on UHF is a problem. I believe that using the Winegard 3800 and the 10g212 into a splitter or combiner and then a single run of coax into the house will work best.
If anyone else has an idea that something else may work better I am willing to listen. I don't want to spend a lot of money on new equipment when my current equipment works fine though I will at least entertain the idea of a new pre amp if it will have the gain to obtain Ch. 9.
Are all installers this pig headed these days and think they know it all? I have over 40 years of experience in low power radio and also installing and using TV antennas. I know Broadcasting Engineers and also have friends with vast technical knowledge on matters like this and never have they insulted me in this manner. I know what I am doing given the limitations that came with the property. Eave mount is best but he won't even entertain the idea despite the fact the antennas are small (Fracarro LP45f Log Periodic and Stellar Labs 30-2436 VHF).
I am getting signal overload on UHF which does suggest that a station in Muncie is the culprit. Every other signal is fair to weak there. Removed the Titan 2 circa 2010 and tried my Antennacraft 10g212 circa 2010 model and that works well with the UHF signals. Too weak to catch any of the VHF signals though.
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I don't need to receive any signals below WISH TV channel 9. I found by using my Winegard 3800 VHF only pre amp circa 2010, that my WISH VHF signal jumped from a 54 to 55 percent reading to 61 and 62 percent reading. WTHR was even stronger. Since all the UHF signals I want to watch are stronger than these signals, there is no need for a stronger UHF antenna unless I dispense with the pre amp. I did test the Super G 1483 without a pre amp at the 5 foot level but it did lead to interference from the station in Muncie. Ch. 49 or real Ch. 19.
Here is what I believe will work best. I can mount the Fracarro and Stellar Labs antennas above the peak of the roof off the front corner of my home with a home made base and mast. I used this method at a home in MO years ago and it worked fine. Handled a large Winegard antenna 7084 with a rotor and it worked just fine. Had it at 20 feet. That was another home that had issues with doing an installation due to it being a single floor and trees all around it and again, the design.
Need some input on the following. I may still buy the Televes pre amp mentioned by Mike but I am a little uncertain if the VHF gain on that is going to be adequate for Ch. 9. The Winegard 8275 could not get it. The Antennacraft 10g212 could not get it. The Titan 2 does but the overload on UHF is a problem. I believe that using the Winegard 3800 and the 10g212 into a splitter or combiner and then a single run of coax into the house will work best.
If anyone else has an idea that something else may work better I am willing to listen. I don't want to spend a lot of money on new equipment when my current equipment works fine though I will at least entertain the idea of a new pre amp if it will have the gain to obtain Ch. 9.
Nobody can tell you for SURE, how any particular equipment will work at YOUR house. You'll just have to try, and see what happens.
Yeah, that is pretty much what I tried to tell this guy and he didn't get it. He thought that my testing different antennas and pre amps was a joke. He more or less said that. One size fits all mentality doesn't work for a lot of things including TV antennas and most anything where broadcasting of any type is concerned.
May try that Televes pre amp you recommended. Will do some more tests this weekend with the pre amps and after that I will know. Thinking that I could use the Televes as a UHF only pre amp and then the Winegard 3800 for VHF and then run them into a splitter. Since the Televes has adjustable gain like the AC 10g212 it should be fine. The higher gain of the 3800 will still yield a better signal than the Titan 2 on Ch. 9 even with the splitter. Typical 3.5 gain reduction in the signal is what I saw.
You can be glad you won't be using this guy. Sounds like he thinks he knows more than he actually does.
You DO know of course that VHF rarely needs any sort of preamp? That's why I think the Televes preamp would work best for you, as it's agc controlled, and will throttle down if needed.
Have you checked around your house to make SURE you don't have electronic devices that are jamming your channel? Or, a local FM radio station blasting you? I had two: a Harbor Freight battery tender running in the garage, jamming RF12. I used an AM radio, and could pick up the radiated RF from that battery tender 300 feet AWAY from my property! I threw it away.
Then, a Dell laptop power brick started causing nearly the same issue. I replaced that with a new one, and problem solved again. Even some LED lightbulbs can cause issues on VHF, or a noisy power transformer on a pole, down the block from you...
This is a great filter, but I see they are temp out of stock: FM Filter
I have an old MCM Electronics FM filter in my system, ahead of the preamp (that already has an FM filter) because I have an FM tower that's twice the power of my most powerful local tv station...
Have you checked around your house to make SURE you don't have electronic devices that are jamming your channel? Or, a local FM radio station blasting you? I had two: a Harbor Freight battery tender running in the garage, jamming RF12. I used an AM radio, and could pick up the radiated RF from that battery tender 300 feet AWAY from my property! I threw it away.
Then, a Dell laptop power brick started causing nearly the same issue. I replaced that with a new one, and problem solved again. Even some LED lightbulbs can cause issues on VHF, or a noisy power transformer on a pole, down the block from you...
This is a great filter, but I see they are temp out of stock: FM Filter
I have an old MCM Electronics FM filter in my system, ahead of the preamp (that already has an FM filter) because I have an FM tower that's twice the power of my most powerful local tv station...
Mike. Have run tests with two VHF Hi antennas so far. The Y-10-7-13 and the Newark deep fringe mentioned and both are catching the signals that I need but I do need a pre amp at least at five feet. Working on another idea for a guyed mast mount in the back yard also. Noted the peak of my roof is about 17 feet and something just above that should be fine if it is a good 20 to 30 feet away from the peak of the roof.
Went and retested everything this weekend to be sure of my findings. This time around the Winegard 8275 was able to receive all the VHF signals just fine. Not quite as well at the Antennacraft 10g212 or the Winegard 3800 which is the best of the bunch. Titan 2 circa 2010 is OK for the VHF side but it is overloading the UHF side just like the other pre amps tested for UHF except the 10g212. That works well for UHF at my location. Clearly the Televes you mention is the way to go for a new pre amp since it has the adjustable gain. I. have to turn down the gain to zero for UHF no matter which of the antennas I use for UHF because the UHF in Muncie is causing the overload. Noted the Super G 1483 8 bay that I have worked great without a pre amp. In fact that might be the best UHF antenna I tested and would not need a pre amp and also did not overload at all. Even picked up another signal with it.
Yes. This is a better option at my new location. This will likely be what I use for a second install if needed. I just have a knack for buying single floor homes that are not well suited to antenna installations. No chimney or stink pipe for mounts there either.
Just installed the Televes single input pre amp and it turns out it works very well on UHF. Tested it at five foot ground level since my new install on the side of the home is more of a project to tackle when I have more time and some help. Noted with the Super G 1483 8 bay it received everything in this location that I can expect to receive and also picked up a pretty weak WEIJ low power satellite from Fort Wayne. Nothing new Indy wise but the signals are stronger. No dropouts or overload from Ch 49 in Muncie now either.
Tried the Fracarro LP45F LTE. next and was shocked to find reception was on par with the Super G 1483 for both the Fort Wayne and Indy stations. Signal strength and quality were virtually identical but in a couple of cases the Fracarro was a couple of percentage points stronger on a couple of stations and the same with the Super G 1483. With that in mind I will probably use the Fracarro on top of the mast resulting in less wind loading. Can save the Super G 1483 or the MXU 59 for a second install which is likely since I will have three TV''s to feed. Can split on the installations to two TV's which I will use less.
VHF wise it is too early to tell. Have a rainstorm front moving in from the south right now and it is wiping out real Ch. 7 and 9 from Indy. Ch. 13 still comes in fine and has a strong signal with the Antennacraft Y10-7-13 . Tried a five foot off the ground mount again with the Stellar Labs deep fringe and it could not get a whiff of either Ch. 7 or Ch. 9. Ch. 13 was watchable but a bit weaker than usual but overall no impact from the weather moving in. May try the Antennacraft CS1100 a little higher in the air above the roof off the side of the house to see if that provides any additional gain. Probably something for next weekend.
Tried the Fracarro LP45F LTE. next and was shocked to find reception was on par with the Super G 1483 for both the Fort Wayne and Indy stations. Signal strength and quality were virtually identical but in a couple of cases the Fracarro was a couple of percentage points stronger on a couple of stations and the same with the Super G 1483. With that in mind I will probably use the Fracarro on top of the mast resulting in less wind loading. Can save the Super G 1483 or the MXU 59 for a second install which is likely since I will have three TV''s to feed. Can split on the installations to two TV's which I will use less.
VHF wise it is too early to tell. Have a rainstorm front moving in from the south right now and it is wiping out real Ch. 7 and 9 from Indy. Ch. 13 still comes in fine and has a strong signal with the Antennacraft Y10-7-13 . Tried a five foot off the ground mount again with the Stellar Labs deep fringe and it could not get a whiff of either Ch. 7 or Ch. 9. Ch. 13 was watchable but a bit weaker than usual but overall no impact from the weather moving in. May try the Antennacraft CS1100 a little higher in the air above the roof off the side of the house to see if that provides any additional gain. Probably something for next weekend.
