Antennaweb vs. TV Fool

[Yes616]

I am not sure what to believe. Antennaweb and TV Fool give me contradictory answers to my problem.

I am located pretty high on a hill (elevation 1850') on a south east slope. To the south east and 85 miles LOS is New York City. To the south west is a mountain about 2100 feet high. In that direction and about 73 miles away LOS are all the Scranton / Wilkes-Barre, PA stations.

Antennaweb says forget about it. All of them.

TV Fool says the PA channels are possible with a good outside antenna (-0.4 to +9.4 NM) . NYC shows up as around (-3.2 to -13.6 NM). I also know I must boost all of these values to above 0 to get a usable signal.

Years ago I had a VHF antenna pointed at New York. 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, 11 and 13 all came in fine with no snow at all using a top of the line (at the time) Channelmaster Quantum. I forget the exact model number but it was the biggest. Some of these channels are going to UHF after June 12th. I never before played with UHF before and neither has anyone else near me except for Scranton but those folks were not affected by that mountain I mentioned earlier.

Take a look at my complete post transition TV Fool report and let me know what you think. Again, Antennaweb says forget about it. Thanks.

 

[Tower Guy]

I am not sure what to believe. Take a look at my complete post transition TV Fool report and let me know what you think.

I say forget about antennaweb.

In your shoes, I'd get a Winegard HD7698P with a preamp and a rotor. Most of the time it would be aimed at PA and should receive them fine. NYC will be hit or miss depending on the weather and the transmitted ERP in your direction.

The local LPTV station on channel 27 will make it extremely difficult to receive WNBC on channel 28.

It's also worth trying for WVIT.

 

[boba]

I would go with antennaweb UHF at 70-80 miles is stretching it's limits for reliable reception add in digital and you will have a picture that is perfect then has stuttering sound and/or blocking making it unwatchable. You have the advantage of heigth but also a higher mountain to block the signal from your closer stations. If you have money to play with go for it but it will be expensive. Go for satellite delivery or cable if available for local channels.

 

[meldar_b]

I like tvfool, :up

antennaweb said that I could not receive any OTA stations in my area. When I can get 3 DTV channels thanks to tvfool for mapping them out for me.

 

[oljim]

Antennaweb is about 3 yrs behind on info for my stations.

 

[Yes616]

I see an error in my report as well. WCBS is currently on channel 56 and will move to 33 after June 12th. The post transition report is showing it still on 56.

Thanks for all your thoughts so far.

 

[roashru]

tvfool is much better than antennaweb for more info and topographic maps try: TV Query - TV Technical Information - Video Division - MB (FCC) USA <link. you set the state and service to "Digital Television (DT)" then click the "submit data" button. When you click on a call sign scroll through the page and click on the (Digital) paragraph links.

 

[jjpicou]

I have been comparing the results from both over the past few months and TVFool seems to
have a lot more information, and seems more accurate.
Antennaweb only shows 4 stations that are available, when in
reality we currently get 7 stations.

 

[Jim5506]

Both use data from the FCC database and run it through geographic algorithms to predict reception, it's just that TVFool gives us more information (sometimes too much such as stations with a NM of -35) and Antennaweb is too conservative in it's info.

I especially like the TVFool option to see a map of stations located around you and see the reception patterns of individual stations.

Just randomly guessing you are on the NW corner of the Thomas Ave loop, WABC-DT is about -3.2 NM which is doable with the proper antenna.

I would recommend seperate UHF and VHF antennas, probably an Antennas Direct 91-XG for UHF and a Wade-Delhi VIP-306 for ch2-13 or a Winegard YA-1713 for VHF high (7-13).

Combine them with a CM 7777 pre-amp and hope for the best.

 

[Yes616]

Both use data from the FCC database and run it through geographic algorithms to predict reception, it's just that TVFool gives us more information (sometimes too much such as stations with a NM of -35) and Antennaweb is too conservative in it's info.

I especially like the TVFool option to see a map of stations located around you and see the reception patterns of individual stations.

Just randomly guessing you are on the NW corner of the Thomas Ave loop, WABC-DT is about -3.2 NM which is doable with the proper antenna.

I would recommend seperate UHF and VHF antennas, probably an Antennas Direct 91-XG for UHF and a Wade-Delhi VIP-306 for ch2-13 or a Winegard YA-1713 for VHF high (7-13).

Combine them with a CM 7777 pre-amp and hope for the best.

Nice guess on the Thomas Ave location but I am on the NE corner.

I have no use for low VHF. You don't think I can get away with just one antenna for everything? Also, I was hoping to pick up signals much weaker than -3.2 NM. I was hoping for something as weak as -13 NM. WWOR-DT shown at -12.2 NM is the weakest I was hoping for. Is this asking for the moon?

The 3 nearby LPTV channels shown on the report don't even seem to exist. I have asked everyone around here and nobody has ever heard of them. I do a have cheap amplified indoor antenna that gets nothing. I did find something on the FCC website that says they are all owned by John Mester Income Family Trust. Whatever that is.

 

[Jim5506]

If you 're going for below -10 you absolutely must have seperate antennas and the very best of both antennas, too, plus you need the CM7777 pre-amp.

At channel 38 both the CM4228 and the DB-8 will get you about 13.5dB gain, the 91-XG pulls about 12.5dB.

The best VHF-high antenna is the Funke PSP.1922 (14-15dB gain 7-13), but they are a bit hard to find.

The Winegard YA-1713 will pull about 9-10 dB from 7-13, so it should pull WABC and maybe WPIX.

In order to pull low dB stations your antenna must have more positive gain than the negative gain at your location, i.e., you must achieve positive gain at the antenna connection, before the pre-amp.

 

[ziggy29]

I have no use for low VHF. You don't think I can get away with just one antenna for everything? Also, I was hoping to pick up signals much weaker than -3.2 NM. I was hoping for something as weak as -13 NM. WWOR-DT shown at -12.2 NM is the weakest I was hoping for. Is this asking for the moon?

Down around -12, you're going to need the highest-gain antennas, perhaps separates for UHF and high-VHF, with a powerful preamp and maybe a little bit of luck. And even then, I suspect reception of a usable picture would be sporadic.

 

[hancox]

food for thought - I pull in WTNH-DT (10) on a 4228/7777 combo. 7 is probably asking too much, but 11 should be fine.

 

[willie8605]

I agree with what everyone is saying above. Antennaweb also did this to me. It told me i wouldn't be able to receive any channels when I am already receiving most of the channels available OTA. TVfool was very accurate for me and I even learned some stuff about a few local low-power broadcasting towers in my area. I say bookmark tvfool and forget antennaweb!

 

[Jim5506]

I never even look at Antennaweb any more.

 

[beachrider]

Antennaweb.org was the primary site for years. I agree with others that their estimates are too conservative. Most here would like to try for hard-to-get stations. OTOH, TVFool gives a ton of information. You need to follow the 'limits' guidance to keep from trying for impossible stations.

 

[Yes616]

Over the last few days I have been trying a few experiments. I found an RCA amplified indoor antenna model ANT1450 just to see if anything is there. Here is what I found.

The 3 LP stations nobody has ever heard of are not on the air. From researching online I found that they have been licensed for many years and have gone digital but they are simply not there.

First I hooked the antenna to my Dish ViP722 in the basement (it's a finnished basement) and placed the antenna on the window sill that faces east. I got 5 WTBY stations. WTBY is a TBN affilliate. I have a problem with this. I'm Jewish. LOL

Next I brought it upstairs to the bedroom where I hooked it to a Dish ViP211 and placed the antenna on a window sill that faces south. Now here I am getting WYOU (CBS) and WBRE (NBC) from Scranton. These are real channels 13 & 11 respectively and both of them only seem to do the one main channel.

Since these channels come in strong enough to be picked up like this I figure I will never see 11 & 13 from NYC with a rooftop antenna. What do the experts think?

PS.. I just became a TV Fool Fan.

 

[Don_M]

Now here I am getting WYOU (CBS) and WBRE (NBC) from Scranton. These are real channels 13 & 11 respectively and both of them only seem to do the one main channel. Since these channels come in strong enough to be picked up like this I figure I will never see 11 & 13 from NYC with a rooftop antenna.

Never say never. You'd have a much bigger problem if those transmitters were, say, less than 25 miles out and within 45 degrees of the signals from WPIX and WNET. They're off in a different direction, though, and so all is not lost: If you can pick up 11 and 13 from 73 miles away in Scranton on an indoor, amplified antenna that's far better suited to UHF broadcasts, imagine what a high-gain, directional antenna might do when mounted above the peak of the roof, pointed right at the ESB and coupled with a high-quality pre-amp!

You've discovered one of the few (slight) weaknesses of TVFool -- it tends to list everything, regardless of whether the station is active or "licensed and silent," a status that can persist for years. There's lots of that going around in this recession.

Oh, and join the club: You don't necessarily need to be Jewish to find TBN irritating.

 

[Tower Guy]

Since these channels come in strong enough to be picked up like this I figure I will never see 11 & 13 from NYC with a rooftop antenna. What do the experts think?

The tvfool prediction of signal strength says that channels 11 and 13 from Scranton are about 16.5 db stronger than New York City. To receive New York at all, you'd need an antenna with about 10 db gain and 32 db front to side ratio. To compensate for atmospherics and calculation errors, you'd need more gain and extra front to side.

One way to do that would be to use two VHF High band antennas such as Antennacraft Y10-7-13 or the Winegard Y-1713 stacked one above the other, but offset horizontally by slightly more than 1/2 wavelength. (one offset to the right of the mast, the other to the left) The half wave would be about 2.5' based on the frequency for channel 12 (halfway between 11 & 13) The line lengths to the two antennas would be identical.

It's a variation of stagger stacking. Read more here: http://www.anarc.org/wtfda/stagger.pdf