AT&T disappointed with offers for struggling DirecTV (3 Viewers)

Juan

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It can easily be done with copper from the curb with no reduction in speed, over either telco or cable company copper for the last bit. There is zero benefit from bringing fiber all way to the house, let alone inside the house.

The thing is, you either have completely new companies running the fiber (as is the case where I live) who have no choice but to run it all the way because they don't own the copper in your yard, or the telco is doing it and copper has such a bad rap with the public that even though it makes no sense to run fiber all the way to the house they do it anyway because they fear the cable company they are competing with will advertise against it as somehow being not real fiber.
Att abandoned u-verse awhile ago
 

NashGuy

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You have any links for a 1 gig copper connection to the home?
G.fast is a form of hybrid fiber/copper DSL that uses copper for the last few meters and can hit speeds up to 1 gig. From what I've read (not sure if true), this technology may be more widely used in Europe, where telcos have keep their copper plant in better condition.

But if a telco is going to run fiber past a house, I can't see why you wouldn't do what AT&T is doing now by running the fiber all the way into the house, and then using a fiber connector that goes straight into the gateway itself. That's how they began doing new installs last year with the latest model gateway and it's how my house was done in Sept. Prior to that, AT&T did installs so that they connected the gateway to the ONT with ethernet, which limited speeds to about 940 Mbps. With the new setup, speeds can hit a full gig and, once AT&T is ready to roll out 2 Gbps service, it'll be able to handle that too.

Another benefit, from what I've read, is that this new installation type should allow customer self installs in the future. If I moved and the new owner signed up for AT&T Fiber, I think AT&T would be able to just ship them a gateway for them to connect themselves, much how cable broadband works (except in this case, you must use AT&T's gateway, can't use your own).
 
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slice1900

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You have any links for a 1 gig copper connection to the home?

OK ignoring DOCSIS which is the obvious one for coax, google 'G.fast' which is the DSL flavor can do 1 gig symmetric up to 100 meters or so which will go beyond your curb and at least to the nearest corner (for grid type streets)

As far as I know no one is deploying that in the US, but it is being deployed in various places around the world.

There are even future standards that allow 10 gig symmetric at 130 meters, and research into using the copper pairs as a waveguide that would allow a terabit at 100 meters. That fast enough for you? :)
 

slice1900

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But if a telco is going to run fiber past a house, I can't see why you wouldn't do what AT&T is doing now by running the fiber all the way into the house, and then using a fiber connector that goes straight into the gateway itself.

Which is stupid of AT&T. I get why they don't want to use the copper buried in your yard, as they want to eventually sell off the copper plant and POTS to a third party to operate like Verizon already did in a couple states.

But running fiber INTO YOUR HOUSE is stupid. You have to drill a new hole in your house, and if you have a finished basement there's no easy way to run new wire unless you happen to have conduit (which few people do)

Sane companies will put a little fiber to ethernet gateway on the side of your house at the service entrance, and repurpose the twisted pair telco wiring as gigabit ethernet.
 
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Juan

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OK ignoring DOCSIS which is the obvious one for coax, google 'G.fast' which is the DSL flavor can do 1 gig symmetric up to 100 meters or so which will go beyond your curb and at least to the nearest corner (for grid type streets)

As far as I know no one is deploying that in the US, but it is being deployed in various places around the world.

There are even future standards that allow 10 gig symmetric at 130 meters, and research into using the copper pairs as a waveguide that would allow a terabit at 100 meters. That fast enough for you? :)
Link?
 

slice1900

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Another benefit, from what I've read, is that this new installation type should allow customer self installs in the future. If I moved and the new owner signed up for AT&T Fiber, I think AT&T would be able to just ship them a gateway for them to connect themselves, much how cable broadband works (except in this case, you must use AT&T's gateway, can't use your own).

I don't understand why that is something that only works if you run fiber inside the house. If they put a fiber to ethernet bridge on the side of your house, they leave it there and the next person will just plug in the ethernet in the house. They don't even need some special AT&T gateway, that's what's on the side of the house. Inside the house it is just ethernet, they can plug in their own switch, wireless router or whatever and they're good to go and you aren't stuck using some telco abomination that restricts your ability to configure things the way you like.
 

Juan

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I don't understand why that is something that only works if you run fiber inside the house. If they put a fiber to ethernet bridge on the side of your house, they leave it there and the next person will just plug in the ethernet in the house. They don't even need some special AT&T gateway, that's what's on the side of the house. Inside the house it is just ethernet, they can plug in their own switch, wireless router or whatever and they're good to go and you aren't stuck using some telco abomination that restricts your ability to configure things the way you like.
So how would you convert light to electricity without a ONT?
 

Mochuf

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Which is stupid of AT&T. I get why they don't want to use the copper buried in your yard, as they want to eventually sell off the copper plant and POTS to a third party to operate like Verizon already did in a couple states.

But running fiber INTO YOUR HOUSE is stupid. You have to drill a new hole in your house, and if you have a finished basement there's no easy way to run new wire unless you happen to have conduit (which few people do)

Sane companies will put a little fiber to ethernet gateway on the side of your house at the service entrance, and repurpose the twisted pair telco wiring as gigabit ethernet.
How many homes don't already have a hole or two drilled into their house from previous cable or telco installations? Just take out that wire and put fiber through that. And sane people don't have drywall ceilings in their basement. I recently had my basement finished and I had the ceiling painted black. Trying to get to pipes and wiring through a drywall ceiling is a pain in the neck and isn't a cheap repair.
 
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comp9

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How many homes don't already have a hole or two drilled into their house from previous cable or telco installations? Just take out that wire and put fiber through that. And sane people don't have drywall ceilings in their basement. I recently had my basement finished and I had the ceiling painted black. Trying to get to pipes and wiring through a drywall ceiling is a pain in the neck and isn't a cheap repair.
Sane people don’t always have a choice. In new construction almost everywhere it is code that even a unfinished basement have a drywall ceiling
 

Jimbo

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Sane people don’t always have a choice. In new construction almost everywhere it is code that even a unfinished basement have a drywall ceiling
????

I've been in Millions of homes that are NOT to CODE in thier basements then.

Inspectors obviously don't care in this case.
 

comp9

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????

I've been in Millions of homes that are NOT to CODE in thier basements then.

Inspectors obviously don't care in this case.
They do over here. Like I said. New construction within the last 10 years Builders do it by default since it is code
 

Jimbo

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In My world, if your basement is drywalled, its considered Finished (or started to be finished).

Finished ceilings are a HUGE pain in the Ass to anyone that does any installing of any kind.

Also the people that put up Drop ceilings that don't know enough to leave enough room to remove them are also a PITA.

There would be an aweful lot of pissed off customers if you can't run any lines thru the basement ... Homes with already finished basements obviously already know that wires won't be placed across the basement.

Many also don't want wires to wrap thier homes on the outside, what do they expect you to do ?
 
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ncted

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It can easily be done with copper from the curb with no reduction in speed, over either telco or cable company copper for the last bit. There is zero benefit from bringing fiber all way to the house, let alone inside the house.
I said it was the best way, not the only way. Converting fiber to copper at the curb requires power is the most obvious obstacle I see. It isn't as if U-verse was that great with the VRAD model, and it wasn't symmetrical, which is more and more important as time passes.

As for coax-based DOCSIS solutions, they can be symmetrical and as fast as current residential fiber, but I've had to have new coax run from the street a few times in my life to fix cable internet issues, so I am not sold on it being any more reliable.
 
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Inclined Orbit

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How many homes don't already have a hole or two drilled into their house from previous cable or telco installations? Just take out that wire and put fiber through that. And sane people don't have drywall ceilings in their basement. I recently had my basement finished and I had the ceiling painted black. Trying to get to pipes and wiring through a drywall ceiling is a pain in the neck and isn't a cheap repair.
I had ATT fiber installed here about two years ago. The fiber is very thin and they put it through the existing hole the old telco copper was run through and stapled it to the wall on the way to the equipment mounted near the old telco demark. No big deal and the run from the pole to the basement was done in about 30 minutes.
 

Mochuf

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Sane people don’t always have a choice. In new construction almost everywhere it is code that even a unfinished basement have a drywall ceiling
I don't know where you live, But I have friends who just built a home, and they didn't have to put up a drywall ceiling. Now they did have to insulate the basement and drywall the walls.
 

vazhog

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I don't know where you live, But I have friends who just built a home, and they didn't have to put up a drywall ceiling. Now they did have to insulate the basement and drywall the walls.
The "BIG" Thing that is missing --When a BASEMENT is finished --depends on WHO and How it is done --If it done with Building permit --Then Inspections would follow to complete the Permit. However -Most are done "JACK Leg" Either by the Home owner or hiring someone on Craig's list --which doesn't require a permit.
 
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slice1900

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Whether you have drywall ceilings in your basement is not your choice unless you are having the house built for you instead of buying an existing home or one that a builder built on spec. In new houses around here the overwhelming majority have a basement, and in almost all of them the basement is finished with a drywall ceiling.

It used to be common 20-30 years ago around here to leave basements unfinished, and then they'd sometimes be finished by a homeowner to varying degrees of quality, but these days finishing the space as part of the construction process makes sense as they can sell it with a higher finished square footage. If interest rates went back up to 15% like they were when my parents built their house, they'd probably start cutting corners again and selling houses with unfinished basements to keep the sale price as low as possible.

In parts of the country where basements are rare and crawlspaces are common, running fiber into the house is not an issue. That's the problem with a company that serves customers all over the country like AT&T making a one-sized-fits-all decision like "we're going to run fiber inside the house".

Given how poorly they've run Directv, I'm hardly surprised their internet arm is just as clueless.
 

NashGuy

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Which is stupid of AT&T. I get why they don't want to use the copper buried in your yard, as they want to eventually sell off the copper plant and POTS to a third party to operate like Verizon already did in a couple states.

But running fiber INTO YOUR HOUSE is stupid. You have to drill a new hole in your house, and if you have a finished basement there's no easy way to run new wire unless you happen to have conduit (which few people do)

Sane companies will put a little fiber to ethernet gateway on the side of your house at the service entrance, and repurpose the twisted pair telco wiring as gigabit ethernet.
Ethernet tops out a just under 1 gig (about 940 Mbps, I think). AT&T Fiber is future-proofing by running glass all the way to the gateway because they know that they will eventually offer speeds above 1 gig.

Google Fiber is already offering 2 gigs down/1 gig up service for $100/mo. And Comcast is advertising how they have faster internet than AT&T (which is a joke, but whatever) because they offer a 2 gig class of service now (but it's insanely expensive -- $300/mo with a 2-yr contract here -- requires a special installation, and is only available at relatively few addresses).

So AT&T knows that they'll need to eventually respond with 2 gig service too. The new type of installation I have can handle it. I think the gateway I have might even be capable of 2 gigs, not sure. (I only have 60/60 service, so none of that really matters to me personally, ha.)

As far as AT&T selling off their copper plant like Verizon did to Frontier, I don't think so. AT&T (or any large US telco, really) hasn't been keeping up those copper lines very well for a long time. Their plan is just to ditch them. They really have little value left. Pretty much everywhere now, AT&T will only allow existing POTS and low-end DSL to remain on that service. But once it's turned off, or you move from that location, it's forever turned off. They're not activating POTS service for any residential customers now.

As I walk around my neighborhood, I see all these cut copper lines dangling along the side of the telephone poles. Because when someone has AT&T Fiber installed, they cut down the copper line running from the pole to your house and replace it with a fiber cable. I suppose there are still homes in my neighborhood that are on Uverse (FTTN DSL) and are fine with it and/or don't know that FTTH is available. So their copper is still intact. And there may be a few elderly folks that still have landline POTS service with an intact copper line. But lots have been cut down.

As for using the internal copper wiring to deliver service from an external ONT to a gateway inside the house, that would be a mess in a lot of cases because there are lots of homes where that wiring has been disconnected from the external jack on the side of house so that the internal wiring can be used with VOIP (such as cableco home phone service). I think some of my wiring got removed years ago when AT&T first installed Uverse. So my point is that the installer would run into complications in a lot of cases, so it's just simpler to put in their own fresh, new fiber that's specifically intended for that service rather than trying to reuse the old copper.
 

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