AT&T disappointed with offers for struggling DirecTV (4 Viewers)

Juan

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I've seen 50 year old POTS drops still working just fine. The armored Fiber cable AT&T uses will last just as long.
Well...copper lasts for ever....fiber has a glass core...when the freezes it contracts..when it warms up it expands...eventually that effects the way light travel through the core...eventually fiber needs to be replaced..plus you have expensive electronics on both ends...copper just carries electricity...needs cleaned once in awhile
 

ncted

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eventually fiber needs to be replaced
Most provider-grade backhaul fiber products were designed to last 100 years when I worked at Nortel in 2000. Maybe earlier products had a shorter expected lifespan? The majority of the periodic expense is the equipment upgrades, just like with wireless (e.g. 4G to 5G), and repairs when a line gets cut, just like copper. I am not sure about the quality of the fiber run to my home however.
 

Juan

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Most provider-grade backhaul fiber products were designed to last 100 years when I worked at Nortel in 2000. Maybe earlier products had a shorter expected lifespan? The majority of the periodic expense is the equipment upgrades, just like with wireless (e.g. 4G to 5G), and repairs when a line gets cut, just like copper. I am not sure about the quality of the fiber run to my home however.
Glass really doesn't last very long...just the nature of the beast...tiny imperfections cause light to do weird things...a tiny speck of dirt can take a circuit down..if you splice a cable..you cut the core...eventually gets misalighned...
 

raoul5788

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Well...copper lasts for ever....fiber has a glass core...when the freezes it contracts..when it warms up it expands...eventually that effects the way light travel through the core...eventually fiber needs to be replaced..plus you have expensive electronics on both ends...copper just carries electricity...needs cleaned once in awhile
Copper expands and contracts.
 

TheTechGuru

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Oct 30, 2010
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Isn't the fiber drop still running down the same streets as the copper?

Ya, AT&T has wrapped their fiber to the sides of their POTS cables all over town but the final drop they remove the POTS and replace with fiber. There are no new POTS sign ups allowed in my area, if you order POTS they will install POTS over Fiber.
 

jct21

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Ya, AT&T has wrapped their fiber to the sides of their POTS cables all over town but the final drop they remove the POTS and replace with fiber. There are no new POTS sign ups allowed in my area, if you order POTS they will install POTS over Fiber.

no new pots sign ups here in east kentucky either. at&t is allowing current customers (my parents) to remain but once you leave, its gone forever. att/bellsouth stopped selling dsl here about 5yrs ago too. new fiber is up in my area. less than a mile from my house. the mayor stated it should be up and running by late spring / early summer. our local cable company has dramatically lowered their prices and upped the speed of their internet plans. I assume its to compete with the new fiber service coming. my current 300/20 plan is $89 month. this same plan a year ago would have been over $250
 

TheTechGuru

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no new pots sign ups here in east kentucky either. at&t is allowing current customers (my parents) to remain but once you leave, its gone forever. att/bellsouth stopped selling dsl here about 5yrs ago too. new fiber is up in my area. less than a mile from my house. the mayor stated it should be up and running by late spring / early summer. our local cable company has dramatically lowered their prices and upped the speed of their internet plans. I assume its to compete with the new fiber service coming. my current 300/20 plan is $89 month. this same plan a year ago would have been over $250

We have two cable companies with separate hard lines on the poles (Spectrum and Grande) both offering a maximum of 940/50 while AT&T Fiber is 940/940 and currently $51/mo for a year with promos and includes access to HBOMax.

 

Juan

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Ya, AT&T has wrapped their fiber to the sides of their POTS cables all over town but the final drop they remove the POTS and replace with fiber. There are no new POTS sign ups allowed in my area, if you order POTS they will install POTS over Fiber.
And they are actually selling you VoIp...lol
 

TheTechGuru

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The old pots equipment has been retired in the central office...so everyone on fiber is actually VoIP

I guess what I'm trying to say is their VoIP is on a separate network unlike using your own 3rd party VoIP so that if internet usage gets fully saturated it won't affect their VoIP but would affect your 3rd party internet based VoIP...
 
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ncted

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After consulting with a friend who works in one of Verizon's test lab, he says: "we plan on having to replace residential fiber lines every 50 years, but expect them to last much longer in practice. Long distance fiber lines are designed to last even longer. It doesn't mean some cables won't fail before that. There is a statistical distribution just like anything, but the MTBF is looking favorable compared to manufacturer specs so far."

Obviously, fiber cuts would potentially result in a lower life expectancy. Either way, fiber is worth it, especially considering ISPs probably make their money back on the capital investment way before they will have to run new lines due to failures. The only reason it isn't more widespread is previously recalcitrant telcos not wanting the short term earnings hit related to the capital investment. Given AT&T's latest statements, I think they are finally seeing the light, even if they still only want to expand into highly profitable markets. In NC, power co-ops and rural counties are putting in rural fiber and leasing access to ISPs, and it is working great. This is a model that I think would work well in a lot of places.
 

Juan

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After consulting with a friend who works in one of Verizon's test lab, he says: "we plan on having to replace residential fiber lines every 50 years, but expect them to last much longer in practice. Long distance fiber lines are designed to last even longer. It doesn't mean some cables won't fail before that. There is a statistical distribution just like anything, but the MTBF is looking favorable compared to manufacturer specs so far."

Obviously, fiber cuts would potentially result in a lower life expectancy. Either way, fiber is worth it, especially considering ISPs probably make their money back on the capital investment way before they will have to run new lines due to failures. The only reason it isn't more widespread is previously recalcitrant telcos not wanting the short term earnings hit related to the capital investment. Given AT&T's latest statements, I think they are finally seeing the light, even if they still only want to expand into highly profitable markets. In NC, power co-ops and rural counties are putting in rural fiber and leasing access to ISPs, and it is working great. This is a model that I think would work well in a lot of places.
Thats in a lab...no car accidents taking down poles...the laser will fail long before the fiber needs to be replaced....but here is the real kicker..as lasers get better...they will need different fiber...the people you are talking to are the ones who came up with the 5g self install kit that worked great in a lab but failed miserably in the field...the 5g frequencies were too weak to penetrate walls...verizon bought a bunch of c-band frequencies to replace and suplement the original uhf frequencies...not 5g national..the ultra high speed 5g
 

Don in CT

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Thats in a lab...no car accidents taking down poles...the laser will fail long before the fiber needs to be replaced....but here is the real kicker..as lasers get better...they will need different fiber...the people you are talking to are the ones who came up with the 5g self install kit that worked great in a lab but failed miserably in the field...the 5g frequencies were too weak to penetrate walls...verizon bought a bunch of c-band frequencies to replace and suplement the original uhf frequencies...not 5g national..the ultra high speed 5g
Isn't the the same with copper. If a pole gets hit the wires need to be replaced. Most of the infrastructure is above ground no matter what it is.
 

Juan

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Isn't the the same with copper. If a pole gets hit the wires need to be replaced. Most of the infrastructure is above ground no matter what it is.
Copper carries electricity..doesnt care if a wire gets bent...light bounces down the core of a fiber...you bend it too far it creates a blemish in the core..might cause the light to bounce a different way and screw up the signal...light is a much cleaner signal than electricity as far as static and interference but of the path of the light gets disrupted you get jitter and bend loss which weaken the signal that can cause all kinds of issues by screwing up the data transmission...you could get macroblocking and synch issues. Etc etc etc
 

Don in CT

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Copper carries electricity..doesnt care if a wire gets bent...light bounces down the core of a fiber...you bend it too far it creates a blemish in the core..might cause the light to bounce a different way and screw up the signal...light is a much cleaner signal than electricity as far as static and interference but of the path of the light gets disrupted you get jitter and bend loss which weaken the signal that can cause all kinds of issues by screwing up the data transmission...you could get macroblocking and synch issues. Etc etc etc
Don't most fiber networks have redundancy. If one line goes down it re-routes.
 

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