Best way to find first signal on C-band dish??? (3 Viewers)

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Cnut

SatelliteGuys Family
Jul 2, 2014
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I bought a used 10-foot mesh dish, added a new C/KU band LNBF, set my elevation for my area according to Dishponter.com and have my tv and FTA receiver (Manhattan 1933, with channels preloaded) out at dish. I have tried tuning to a channel on my true south Satellite and then rotating the dish by hand on the polar mount to see if I "bump," into the channel. I can't get any signal on either the C or Ku side. Is there a better way to find the first signal? Should I use a signal meter first and forget about TV for now? My angle finder shows that my elevation and declination are set right according to the Dishpointer.com info, and I have checked the FD length to the LNBF and it is correct for the dish. The LNBF is set at the right skew angel as well for my true south satellite. I must be missing something stupid simple somewhere. Should I put the dish at the True South satellite and adjust the elevation up/down to hunt for the signal? I have a clear view of the southern sky and there are no trees blocking the satellite dish. Stumped! Any helpful hints would be great. Thanks.
 
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KE4EST

SatelliteGuys Is My Second Home
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Aug 9, 2004
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Welcome to the site!!
Do you have you receiver set to the signal and quality screen? Do you have the LO set properly for each band?
5150 for C-Band. Ku could be 10750 or 10600, depending on what kind you have (universal or not).
Do you have the LNBF skewed to 0?
Does the C/Ku have a built in switch? What is your true south satellite? What transponder are you on?
Give us a few more details and we will be glad to help. :)
If this is your first time with a C-band dish, things can be off just an inch somewhere and you not get signal.
Remember also if you are going to use a receiver to tune up your dish, to take things slow. The reaction time in most receivers is not as quick as a quality meter. ;)
 

Cnut

SatelliteGuys Family
Jul 2, 2014
62
28
Welcome to the site!!
Do you have you receiver set to the signal and quality screen? Do you have the LO set properly for each band?
5150 for C-Band. Ku could be 10750 or 10600, depending on what kind you have (universal or not).
Do you have the LNBF skewed to 0?
Does the C/Ku have a built in switch? What is your true south satellite? What transponder are you on?
Give us a few more details and we will be glad to help. :)
If this is your first time with a C-band dish, things can be off just an inch somewhere and you not get signal.
Remember also if you are going to use a receiver to tune up your dish, to take things slow. The reaction time in most receivers is not as quick as a quality meter. ;)
My C-band Antenna setup is set to 5150 and the KU side is set for the universal setup, 9750 to 10600. I have an external 22khz switch. I put the KU on the 22 side and attached the C-band to the 0 side. I have selected the C-band as Port 1 and then tried Port 2 on the antenna setup with the 22khz "off." My true south satellite is 87West. I was trying several of the pre-loaded channels for that satellite, I think the transponders were programmed by the pre-loaded channel list (I think, not sure?). I set up a C-band dish about 20 years ago when things were still analog and this is my first try at setting up a digital receiver system. I'm not sure where the signal and quality screen is. I was tuning to different channels on 87W and hoping to get a picture to come in. The on said "No signal," and I never got static or anything else. The LNBF is skewed at 0. I moved the dish with the actuator to it's highest point and then turned the actuator box off, loosened the blots on the polar mount and turned the dish by hand in hopes of finding the signal. Should I take photos of my setup and post them? If that helps. I'm lost. Thanks for any help.
 

KE4EST

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I would start with the C-Band side until I get signal. Take the 22k switch out for now and run straigt from the C-Band side of the LNBF to the receiver.
The problem with pre-loaded channels sometimes is that things can change so much, who knows what is in there. If the list was put in there a few years ago when this receiver came out, a lot has changed.
Press menu on your remote and then push the down arrow once to highlight the picture of a sat dish. Then press ok, then go to antenna setup. This will get you in the setup screen.
Go back one and then go down to TP list and then cycle through until you find 87W C, and tell us what transponders are listed there.
Yes pictures are really worth a thousand words. :)
 

Cnut

SatelliteGuys Family
Jul 2, 2014
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0702141052-00.jpg
I would start with the C-Band side until I get signal. Take the 22k switch out for now and run straigt from the C-Band side of the LNBF to the receiver.
The problem with pre-loaded channels sometimes is that things can change so much, who knows what is in there. If the list was put in there a few years ago when this receiver came out, a lot has changed.
Press menu on your remote and then push the down arrow once to highlight the picture of a sat dish. Then press ok, then go to antenna setup. This will get you in the setup screen.
Go back one and then go down to TP list and then cycle through until you find 87W C, and tell us what transponders are listed there.
Yes pictures are really worth a thousand words. :)
Transponders listed on 87W C-band are:
3842 6150 H, 4000 29125 H, 4043 3910 H, 4148 6850 H and 3743 5000 V
Also, the signal meter I have is a SF-95DR. Would this be considered a quality signal meter, or a cheap one?
thanks again
 

KE4EST

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Put it on that screen, remove the switch, make sure you are hooked up to the C-Band side of the LNBF.
Use the 4148 Transponder. Slowly move the dish back and forth, if no signal, change elevation a bit one way and repeat. After you have moved elevation quite a bit one way, go back and start the other way.
Take a close up of the LNBF in the scalar. That meter is a cheap one but can help know that you are getting close. It can't be used alone but you can put it in line with your receiver.
 
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FaT Air

HOA Free Zone
Feb 27, 2010
6,668
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97W 48N
What or where did you place that dishpointer angle on the BUD.
Dishpointer angles are for the elevation scale on an offset Ku dish
Here's a picture that shows what angle should be where on a BUD
25148.jpg

For more detail, I'll refer you to this page that I wrote a while back.
http://theho.web.fc2.com/BUD/9525/
 
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FaT Air

HOA Free Zone
Feb 27, 2010
6,668
914
97W 48N
Will be OK IF C band is on the 22Khz OFF side. Ku on the 22Khz ON side. But you'll be 'stuck' to the domestic band - 11700 to 12200. Program your Ku as Standard with L.O. = 10600, 22Khz ON.
(works for me)
Port 1 and then tried Port 2
DisEqC? Do you also have one of 'those' in there??
Analog meter with a digital readout instead of a needle. Can help, but won't indicate which satellite you're aimed at. Use your receiver for that. watch for 'Q' on a known active transponder of the satellite you're after..
 

Cham

VE4GLS
Pub Member / Supporter
Dec 19, 2008
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Boonies
Best to wire direct to the C-band part of the LNBF from the receiver. Keep it simple for getting your first signal and fine-tuning your dish. Remember the Ku part of the LNBF already has a 22KHz switch. Once you have the arc set up then add a diseqc to seperate Ku and C-band.

A good satellite finder has a built-in receiver and gives you Bit Error Rate (BER) and Carrier to Noise ratio (C/N) numbers. Some even display the video you are receiving. Some are pre-programmed with Transponder (TP) info but often you have to input the numbers manually because TP lists are not always up to date. You will want one eventually. Your receiver with a portable TV screen can make-do if you can locate them close to your dish so you get instant feedback as you find signals. Look for Quality rather then Signal... When the "Q" jumps up that means you have a lock on that satellite/TP, and you can fine-tune to maximize that Q number.

If you have a smartphone, there are apps available to show where the satellites are in the sky to give you an idea where to aim, might give you a good starting point. Also helps determine the best location for your dish by indicating objects like trees that might be in the way and interfere with the satellite signal.

You will get it to work, just be patient and take your time. It is quite satisfying to get your system up and running yourself. :)
 

Siyotanka

New Member
May 1, 2012
1
0
Illinois
How does one know where the prime focus is? My LNB has gradient lines on the side of the feed horn I assume for this. What is/are the proper procedures for this install?
 

77TA

SatelliteGuys Pro
Aug 27, 2013
562
50
Arkansas
See if this helps.
 

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rooneysat

On Vacation
Feb 18, 2014
50
2
USA
Pick a strong transponder. I always use The Weather Network on 107 West.

Next, get the elevation for 107 WEst from Dishpointer. For me, that was 31 degrees.

Now put your level on the highest point of the rim frame and adjust your dish until it shows 31 degrees. Now gently move your dish about the pole until you see a signal.

Works every time!
 

Lone Cloud

SatelliteGuys Pro
May 23, 2008
701
18
Some people get frustrated when they apply mathematical measurements and formuilas and they don't get a signal. It's better to go off the actual signal than off the theoretical of where the signal is supposed to be.

You don't need a satellite finder, because the Manhattan receiver has a "beep" function. I have a Manhattan and this is how I do it:

First, get a pair of wireless radio frequency headphones (fifteen bucks Harbor Freight) . Set your receiver up where it will ultimately be. Connect to your LNB in the manner described in your LNB instructions.

Remember that the "due south satellite" language is inaccurate for most people, who do not live on the exact same longitude as where the satellite orbits. For the vast majority of us, the more accurate term is "southernmost".

Get your exact longitude. Go to the satellite list on this or other sites. Find the satellite closest to your longitude that has an active transponder. Go to your transponder list for that satellite. Make sure all numbers for that transponder are entered. Add that transponder. Make sure "beep" function is enabled. Go to "Single Satellite Search". Set it on the transponder you just entered.

Go to your dish. By whatever method you figure out ( I use a big framing square on mine) , get your dish to zenith position. This will be the position that the dish will be in when it is pointing at your exact longitude in the sky (where there likely won't be a satellite). Note the exact number of degrees between your exact longitude and the longitude of the satellite you are using for your southernmost. If it's say a degree and a half east of your longitude, if you have a dish mover, maybe you do about ten clicks east. You don't use your dish mover after that.

Then, with your receiver on and your headphones on and connected to the audio output of the Manhattan, and with your receiver set to the exact satellite and transponder you entered, by hand,you move the dish up and down and around the pole until you get a beep signal in your headphones. When you get the strongest signal, that's where you lock the dish in.
 
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richyrich

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 2, 2008
480
20
dead
I bought a used 10-foot mesh dish, added a new C/KU band LNBF, set my elevation for my area according to Dishponter.com and have my tv and FTA receiver (Manhattan 1933, with channels preloaded) out at dish. I have tried tuning to a channel on my true south Satellite and then rotating the dish by hand on the polar mount to see if I "bump," into the channel. I can't get any signal on either the C or Ku side. Is there a better way to find the first signal? Should I use a signal meter first and forget about TV for now? My angle finder shows that my elevation and declination are set right according to the Dishpointer.com info, and I have checked the FD length to the LNBF and it is correct for the dish. The LNBF is set at the right skew angel as well for my true south satellite. I must be missing something stupid simple somewhere. Should I put the dish at the True South satellite and adjust the elevation up/down to hunt for the signal? I have a clear view of the southern sky and there are no trees blocking the satellite dish. Stumped! Any helpful hints would be great. Thanks.

According to what you have posted; and because your install was existing; at no time should "signal" say zero if the lnbf is plugged into the receiver. Using a short piece of coax from recvr. to the lnbf will show that everything is ok IF IT THEN READS a signal number (any)! Do not touch the dish arc until the end. It probably is ok (has not changed since 1961). Set-up an electrical cord outside at the dish with your receiver and tv/monitor plugged into a strip. Use the short piece of coax from receiver to the lnbf mounted on the dish. Do a blind scan when your dish is where "signal" is high (or even anywhere the dish is already pointing). You should get something!
To me, it sounds like the cable is broken and needs replacement; so test outside at the dish using different coax to lnbf C Band output to receiver first.
 

Lone Cloud

SatelliteGuys Pro
May 23, 2008
701
18
Just to let you know, the method I describe above is basically the same method as used by small Ku dishes and movers using USALS. Once you enter them with your latitude and longitude, they automatically are at zenith at your longitude. Then when you drive the dish to a satellite with a good signal, it tilts just the right amount, simplifying aiming.

It's a little more complicated with a C-band dish, because zenith isn't programmed in. You have to find it. When, in the past, I treated the southernmost satellite as a "due south" satellite, I missed satellites at the far east and west on the arc. After a hard wind or other event that causes me to lose signal, using the method I described has gotten me the entire arc from 55.5 west to 139 west right away. This has occurred three times.
 
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