BREAKING NEWS: FCC Approves Next-Gen TV for OTA Broadcasting

Discussion in 'Over the Air TV By RabbitEars.Info' started by larrykenney, Nov 16, 2017.

  1. Your timeline is fictional and made up in your head. Even the link you posted earlier says it will be at least 2019 before early adopters start broadcasting (and still only voluntarily).
  3. I'm wondering what all of these comments about ATSC 1 towers and ATSC 3 towers is all about. I'm confused. We have one big tower, Sutro Tower, here in San Francisco, and I suspect that stations that are on that tower now will remain there when they go to ATSC 3.0. Or are the antennas for ATSC 3.0 so different they won't work on the present towers? In fact, will a station need a new antenna when they switch modes? They're going to be transmitting on the same frequency their on now -- or their new repack frequency -- so why can't they use their present antenna? Comments and answers will be appreciated on this.

    Also, a side note, when the FCC announced the approval of ATSC 3.0, I read where several stations were excited and eager to get going on the new service and get on the air as soon as possible.

    Personally, I'm looking forward to seeing OTA 4K. I've been amazed at the gorgeous 4K videos and programs on Netflix and YouTube. They look so much better than HD on my Sony 4K TV!

    danristheman likes this.
  4. You really are talking out of your rear end. I call 4K an upgrade in PQ. Also, the new transmission standards do raise the bar. Your going to eat crow myfriend.

    Again dead wrong, it's called, Authorizing Permissive Use of the “Next Generation” Broadcast Television Standard FCC docket GN No. 16-142 and you can read more on the plan for adoption in the stadards here, direct from the source. Oh and here is a handy guide to help broadcasters plan. Transition and Deployment Guide Helps Broadcasters Plan for Next Gen TV - ATSC

    Time line is self regluated by the industry. It's already been put out there that a time line has been established by the ATSC.


    A point in time signifies the beginning and end. They are arbitrary because as with any deployment those dates can change. Anyone who has worked on a major project knows this. South Korea is actually a great example as it gives everyone a place to do real world testing without the headaces of deploying for thousands of stations. I dont know about you but I get my news out of south korea from news agancyies like MBC, KBS, and SBS, plus independant bloggers who talk about the technology. Google translate is a wonderful thing.

    Actually we have room for multiple standards, you just need the FCC to stop selling the spectrum.

    Turn off those blinders because your about to be amazed at what this industry is going to pull off.
  5. I dont call this fictional.

    Attached Files:

  6. Larry they will have to change out only the transmitter. The antennas they have now will work unless they are changing frequencies. If a broadcaster chooses to stay on their frequency then they won’t need a new antenna. Basically Broadcasters are going to agree to co locate their channels on agreed to frequencies as they build out new facilities for 3.0. Example: So you will have an NBC RF27, FOX RF30, and ABC RF33 agreeing to use the FOX's ATSC 1.0 channel on RF 30 to simulcast all three stations 1.0 programming. NBC and ABC builds out a new transmitters and keeps their frequency, RF 27 and RF33, so they install their new transmitters. Once they are up and running NBC and ABC will agree to have FOX's 3.0 programming simulcast’ed on one of their ATSC 3.0 signal for five years while the FOX still carries the required 1.0 simulcast programming. Once ATSC 1.0 goes dark, then FOX will build their facility and once that's completed everyone goes back to the way they were before the transition. (I believe this is how it’s going to go) The details really haven’t been released and this is on a per market basis.

    The spectrum repack is giving some stations the opportunity to move and do the rebuilds from the start. They have to give the public notice when they do and they have to simulcast their 1.0 content on 3.0 for five years.
    More info from gates air.
    larrykenney likes this.
  7. That diagram shows 2019 for “commercial launch,” with a big red warning sign that says “challenge: repack.” I don’t see any mention of a “1.0 sunset” in 2024 as you were saying.
  8. The sunset came about in the FCC's order released last month well after that graphic was created. You certainly know how to do math? Right! If Phoenix launches’ their in 2018 that puts their ATSC 1.0 sunset at 2023, If the industry as a hole upgrades everyone in 2019, then that requirement is 2024 as I am saying. In reality it's more likely to happen 2023-2026. In fact the order reads as follows,

    "Pursuant to the Order, the Commission will incorporate specific parts of the Next Gen TV technical standard (specifically, A/321 and A/322) into its rules. The A/322 requirement will apply only to a broadcaster’s primary video stream and will sunset five years from the effective date of the rules adopted by the Order unless extended by the Commission. "

    Meaning after five years, unless the commission changes it, stations can pull the plug on their ATSC 1.0 programming. There is nothing saying stations have to carry an ATSC 1.0 signal other than for the first 5 years during the transition per FCC's order. In fact the ACA is already balking at retransmission rights over this issue.
  9. So the previous posts basically say, “HD” will be reduced by one ATSC 1 frequency carrying 3 “HD” signals. So in comparison, ATSC 3 will look GREAT!

    comfortably_numb likes this.
  10. Yep. Anything less than a stream running at about 8mbps really degrades HD picture quality, and since there’s only a total of 19.8 mb maximum on a single ATSC 1 stream, running 3 “HD” channels would reduce each to about 6.5mbps. Less than ideal. There’s only one station in my area broadcasting an HD picture and utilizing the whole 19.8 mb stream, but it looks fantastic.
  11. Just curious here...
    I imagine the top 10 or perhaps 20 markets in the country will be the ones who will have the finances, etc.. to convert to 3.0... is there any incentive, mandate, whatever... for all the rest of the markets to convert? I ask because I don't see a lot of stations wanting to convert unless they have to, purely because of finances.

    I'm asking because it took years after HD came into being before a lot of smaller stations converted, and then it was basically kicking and screaming the entire way. lol :)
  12. Depends on who you ask around here. I think it will be a long slow process, if at all, for smaller markets. But if you ask K9SAT he’ll tell you the whole thing will be done nationwide by next Christmas ;)

    There is a CBS station north of here in St Joseph Missouri that still does their evening news in 4:3 SD! They won’t be doing 3.0 any time soon.
  13. I never said that! The groups that are pushing it for the most part are the Sinclair’s, Raycoms, and Scripts of the world. Those are the groups that own the majority of the small to medium sized markets. I think we will be done by 2024.
  14. You have the very terrible affliction of assuming that what can be done will materilize immediately, in abundance and in the most favorable way imaginable. As someone who works with DIRECTV, you know very well that UHD still hasn't materialized they way that they hyped it. Where DIRECTV promised many UHD channels by now, they now offer perhaps less than what they started with (you should well remember the parallels I drew to DIRECTV's much-ballyhooed 3D programming).

    Bandwidth demands of running multiple standards dictate that UHD simply isn't sustainable in most of the larger markets until after DTV has been officially retired.
    New does not necessarily mean better and what is provided for is no guarantee that it will come to pass on a fast track schedule (consider DIRECTV's Reverse Band hype). Many outliers lost significantly in the DTV transition and the utility of DXing was severely curtailed. Physics is a cruel mistress and there are almost always compromises when you seek to wring more out of the same bandwidth.
    Again, you make the possibly fatal assumption that permission equates to full support and/or a guarantee of unconditional success. There have been many permitted uses that just never caught on and were later denied for any number of reasons.
    A model must have very strong similarities. South Korea isn't even similar to most of our individual states, much less North America. I'd be willing to wager that the "independent bloggers" that you cite aren't all that independent. Many are probably aligned with the ATSC committee, the broadcasters or the manufacturers in some not-so-indirect way.
    We both know that isn't going to happen. If you look, there may already be plans forming for the next auction of OTA bandwidth.
    It isn't a matter of having blinders. It is a matter of not buying into the propaganda of the TV stations and TV manufacturers that have very much to gain from a transition. Hype and what happens aren't very much connected and if you study the entire context of what is going on in the next five years (along with some of the dissenting analyses of when various milestones are likely to be met), you'll begin to see the smoke and mirrors.

    What the broadcasters and manufacturers want and how the public votes with their wallets have never been (and are likely never to be) in much agreement. If the proponents try to force their hand, the public may just walk away out of frustration.
    comfortably_numb likes this.
  15. Not sure where you're looking, but I'm aware of no such plans. I'd likely be among the first to know.

    - Trip
    bobvick likes this.
  16. And what TV station will be sending out a single UHD broadcast when it can send out 4 1080P (maybe w/HDR) and a multitude of SD channels in the same bandwidth? Which configuration is going to make the station the most money?
  17. It would probably first appear in the minutes of a Commerce committee meeting.
    ...and among the last to freely share.

    You're well aware that the last auction was the result of legislation signed in 2012 (as part of the Payroll Tax Cut Exension) so Congress was fairly far out ahead at that time and I'm betting someone is scheming for another repack after DTV is done just as was done after NTSC was retired (mostly). The problem this time is determining when the time to stick a fork in DTV is upon us.

    I don't claim to have clairvoyance or any manner of gubmint insight, it just seems logical that someone is thinking more than a few years ahead.
  18. Logic is for Negative Nancys.
  19. You're the one who made the claim that "if you look," you can find such plans. Where are they? I'd like to see them.

    - Trip
  20. You've confused the phrase "there may already be" with "there are".
  21. No, it's much simpler than that. You've simply made a statement with zero evidence and, upon being called on it, attempted to wriggle out of it.

    The idea for the auction was proposed in 2010, kicked around in Congress during 2011, and ultimately passed in 2012. Then the process itself went through a very public rule-making process with a flurry of Public Notices and other documents. There was no secret in the run-up to the auction itself. It was well-publicized. As it stands right now, there are no plans for any kind of follow-up, for multiple reasons. (Not least of which is that any such discussion would likely lead to people slamming on the brakes of the work on the current repack.)

    - Trip
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