C & Ku Band on Small Dish

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ray224000

ray224000

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I was wondering if anyone has attempted "C & Ku Band on Small Dish" project? I have read about "C Band on Small Dish" but I've yet to find a thread on someone attempting to use a LNBF that handles both. If one such thread exist, I would appreciate a point in the right direction. I would also be interested to hear from those that have attempted along with their results.
 
bobvick

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Usually a dual band LNBF is not as sensitive as a single band LNBF, there are compromises with a dual LNBF. So, it might work however, I doubt it, and suspect that is why you haven't read any success stories about it. You could give it a try however, if you wished.


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ray224000

ray224000

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That was the response I expected. I've read that dual band LNBF's are not as sensitive and would probably be even more of an issue on a small dish. And that would make sense why I haven't seen any successes discussed. The reason I asked, I will experiment with the "C-Band on Small Dish" as soon as my new little toy shows up. First attempt will be at 99w. I was able to scan in NHK on Ku and hated to sacrifice for the C-band.
 
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T134

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I've done it successfully several times with a 1 meter and BSC621-2D unmodded and modded. C-band results are decent, Ku could be made barely passable with some fine tuning....back in the strong DVB-S signal days. With weaker S2 on Ku no way. Some people and myself played with pulling the Ku section and basically taping a PLL LNBF to the butt end. Definite improvement over the stock DRO Ku section but still not good for reliable Ku. We've also messed with Ku sidecars at my site. Worked decent in the DVB-S days, not well with DVB-S2 and they are hard to tune well on a motorized system.

I'd recommend just doing C-band on a small dish using a Titanium PLL. Use a second dish for the Ku.
 
ray224000

ray224000

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Thanks Joe...I have a Titanium waiting, along with multiple Ku lnbs that I can designate for the side car. I have a few Amiko L-103 (slims) that I can use which will help with spacing. Who knows, maybe I'll try to find way to tape on the butt.
 
bobvick

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If you do decide to experiment, be sure and let us know how it works. Will be interesting to know if you do happen to find anything.


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Kraven

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Everybody IMO should experience the "joys" of the Mini-Bud.

IIRC, using a C/Ku LNB on a 39" I was able to get the leasea (??) feeds and that was it.
 
ray224000

ray224000

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I think I soon will experience the joy. I realized that I need to raise my dish up another 10" or so to avoid a tree that impedes my line of sight (barely affects it). I would trim the tree but I figure my wife would grill my hide instead of the steaks today. The good thing about raising the dish, it opens up some satellites on the far western arc.
 
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T134

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Thanks Joe...I have a Titanium waiting, along with multiple Ku lnbs that I can designate for the side car. I have a few Amiko L-103 (slims) that I can use which will help with spacing. Who knows, maybe I'll try to find way to tape on the butt.

I was rather tired last night but in case I worded it wrong I DON'T recommend a Ku sidecar with C-band project. The loss is too high for much of Ku and it is a PITA to reprogram the offset to the Ku birds to get the motor to align the sidecar right for Ku reception. That is if you are using a motor. I guess if you are going to try it those Amiko slims are probably the best bet since you can get them closer to the C-band conical and LNBF for the least amount of offset loss.

One guy at my site took a BSC422 C-band only LNBF and drilled out the back to try the "tape it to the butt" thing. As I recall it did not work out well. There was a bar in the way of one of the Ku antenna pins so he could only get one polarity and his results there sucked. With a C/Ku LNBF you don't have that bar thing and you just unbolt the Ku section, aluminum tape on a normal Ku LNBF so it worked out better.
 
ray224000

ray224000

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A wise man once said there are to ways to obtain wisdom; one, you can live the experience and learn from it, or two, you can listen to someone that has lived the experience and listen to their sound advice. I think the latter of the two is in my best interest. I will go ahead and tackle the "C-Band on Small Dish" project and continue looking for an inexpensive dish to add to the two I currently have.
 
KE4EST

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Yes that is your best option. If you must go with a smaller dish for C-band experimentation, dedicate that dish to C-Band only. Then obtain another dish for Ku. :)
 
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northgeorgia

northgeorgia

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Or if you just want occasional C-band, you can do as I do and "swap out" the LNBFs. I'm probably going to do that on Sunday evening. I have a good friend who will be on a rebroadcast program on Radio y Television de Hidalgo on 113W. It usually comes in for me when I do the mini-BUD project (or in my case, micro-BUD as my dish is 90x99), but sometimes I have to tweak the position a bit more toward the east to get it. After the program ends at 8 pm, I'll definitely go back out and put the Ku-band LNBF on :)
 
ray224000

ray224000

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I am expecting my first attempt today...of course that is if the mail man decides to delivery the package. I think at first, I just want to experiment. I've never had an opportunity, nor the confidence to play around with C-band. I did pick up a used 10 ft that will be installed on our country property. The time now I spend tinkering and understanding this hobby will benefit me later when I am ready to set it up permanently.

Hypothetically, If I have my Ku set at 99w, how difficult will be to swap out and replace with a C-band LNBF? I presume there will be some tweaking but if I am not adjusting the dish, how difficult will it be?
 
Titanium

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The biggest challenge will likely be mounting the c-band feedhorn at the exact height as the KU fredhorn. If the feedhorn is not centered exactly as the previous feedhorn, it will not receive all of the reflected signal and the dish elevation angle would need to be adjusted to compensate.

The distance from the reflector to the feedhorn opening is extremely important and the placement of the scalar and type of scalar is even more critical. Changing the placement of either the feedhorn or the scalar will greatly affect the number of channels and the Signal Quality readings!

Moving the conical scalar even 1/4" forward or aft on my 1.2m aimed at 99w makes the difference of receiving 9 more channels!

The reflector has a wider beamwidth pick-up pattern. If there is an adjacent satellite using a similar frequency, it will interfere with reception of your primary target satellite. To minimize this interference, it may be necessary to pan the dish away from the adjacent satellite to minimize the interference. Yes, this will also decrease the signal received from the target satellite, but you are trying to find the best Signal To Noise (SNR) ratio comparing the signal from the desired satellite and that of the unwanted noise from the adjacent satellite. This will vary between transponders, so it is likely that one transponder will have better Signal Quality reading in one position and another transponder will have higher Signal Quality reading at another angle. Oh, the joys of mini-BUDs!!!

The main reason the combined C/KU LNBFs do not work well is because the feedhorn cavity is actually tuned for C-band frequencies. The KU-band waves bounce around in the mistuned cavity and whatever remains of the signal is caught by a KU probe at the end of the tube.
 
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T134

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If the bracket bolts right up and puts the C-band LNBF center right where the Ku was 99W actually should be easy to get. That part is pretty key like Brian mentioned. 99W is normally where I start for tuning on C-band small dish project since several TP's are quite fat over the entire USA and are hard to miss. Some guys report getting TP's from this bird on small dish without even a scalar on the LNBF. I'd start with the Caribbean Mux, I think 3845H someone correct that if my memory is bad. Once you see that on your meter you can start playing with LNBF and scalar position combos to get a feel for how the tuning is going to work out.
 
ray224000

ray224000

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I think I've moved on with the idea of combining C-Band & Ku. Matter of fact I thought I was set to attempt this for the afternoon but two things changed my mind. One, your response made me think about having the right attitude when I attempt such an endeavor. The other thing, is on the way home this morning, I spotted an unused 1.2 cm dish. It looked sad and all alone. I think I want to wait and see if I could obtain the dish for the project. I'll go by and check with the owner on Monday.

Other than that, I appreciate the information. I figured it wasn't going to be as easy as just plunking it up there and expected to watch something immediately.

It is all about attitude! Thanks again.
 
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DavidR

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Mr. Searchy is your friend! There are lots of threads on mini buds. Plug in "mini buds" or "C band on a Ku" and there are lots of results and good threads. Many asking the same questions as you.
I have a mini bud. I have a 1.2 meter that I get a whole lot of c band on. At first I used a combination C/Ku lnb. Only the strongest Ku comes in. I got a C band only lnb and maybe it's marginally better on C band than the combo.
I highly recommend trying it.
 
ray224000

ray224000

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Let's say it is Christmas in July. The mail man did not let me down. He delivered my Titanium C1-PLL and scalar kit. There really is a Santa Clause. Now, should I be patient or wait on the 1.2?

David, what satellites have you had success?
 
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T134

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If you can make it work on a 1 meter the 1.2 will be a breeze. Just my opinion but I'd try the 1m since you have it just for the learning experience.
 
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DavidR

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On 99 I get 30 channels. 97 I get 4. 95 I have 8 channels. 91 a dozen (sometimes the CW is unscrambled and I get 5 more). 83 I get a couple. 55 and 58 I get a whole bunch. Most are spanish. 101 has 3 or 4. 103 sometimes I get the Ion mux. 107 has over 20. 111 gets 2 channels. 121 gets about 10. 123 gets 2 unscrambled. On 125 I get the TBN mux.
Well worth the effort. And it's true what everyone says. It will make you want a bigger dish. I am currently putting up a 6 footer. Hope to get a lot more c band!
 
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