Then quit complaining about not being able to get a 1080p24 download from Dish. Watch the 1080i version.
Can't get 1080p on my 1080p set. What gives?
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Then quit complaining about not being able to get a 1080p24 download from Dish. Watch the 1080i version.
This is ridiculous. I bought a 1080P TV. DISH advertises 1080P capability. I should be able to watch 1080P. It's that simple. Are three year olds running these companies? Soon I will never purchase a SONY or subscribe to DISH again. This is what these companies are achieving. Lost customers.
The very same scenario occurred when the 622 first came out - problems with HDMI. Some is Dishes fault (rushing 1080p out to beat DirecTV to the punch) and part is the problem with the HDMI standard - it is broken.
A perfect storm.
Patience.
A perfect storm.
Patience.
A 1080p TV does not mean it will accept a 1080p signal, what it really means is the end result you see will be a 1080p video, whatever the incoming signal will be upscaled by the TV to 1080p.
So if the TV does not support 1080p/24, there is really no benefit of trying to force it to get the signal, the 1080i version of the HDVOD will be just fine, as long as your TV has the 3:2 pull down, then what you end up seeing will be the same as watching on a TV that can accept the 1080p/24 native signal. I am not even sure which way is better, because in the later case the 722 will be doing all the scaling for the TV, and in the earlier case your TV will do all the scaling. If your TV does a better job than the 722 on the scaling, in theory you may get to see a better picture, that is if your TV is a good quality set with good 3:2 pull down. Personally I don't see there any difference that most people can detect anyway. In all practicality, you should get a Bluray quality picture just as if you are watching from a Bluray DVD box on your TV.
The only benefit in this case is the 1080p movie can be ordered for $2.99. I would not have ordered it had it been $6.99.
So if the TV does not support 1080p/24, there is really no benefit of trying to force it to get the signal, the 1080i version of the HDVOD will be just fine, as long as your TV has the 3:2 pull down, then what you end up seeing will be the same as watching on a TV that can accept the 1080p/24 native signal. I am not even sure which way is better, because in the later case the 722 will be doing all the scaling for the TV, and in the earlier case your TV will do all the scaling. If your TV does a better job than the 722 on the scaling, in theory you may get to see a better picture, that is if your TV is a good quality set with good 3:2 pull down. Personally I don't see there any difference that most people can detect anyway. In all practicality, you should get a Bluray quality picture just as if you are watching from a Bluray DVD box on your TV.
The only benefit in this case is the 1080p movie can be ordered for $2.99. I would not have ordered it had it been $6.99.
No, it won't be the same. You still have the judder issue which comes from playing back at a non-integer ratio to the original.
The output @ 1080i60 becomes 1080p60. 60/24 = 2.5.
One of the best things to notice judder on is white text on a black background -- scrolling credits. Notice how the playback is choppy? It's there all the time you do these types of processing, but scrolling credits makes it quite obvious.
Another place you'll notice it is on extended pans -- it's every so slightly jerky.
This isn't necessarily true; much of the results depend on the bit rate for the encode. And you'll be limited to Dolby Digital on the audio side which isn't in the same ball park with lossless (uncompressed PCM, Dolby True HD, DTS-HD Master Audio).
In fairness, I'm watching on a high-end system with a 10' wide front projection screen, and sitting at about 1 screen width / 2.5 screen heights away. The vast majority of people sit relatively far away (5+ screen heights) which cuts the effective resolution unless you have higher than normal vision.
20/20 isn't perfect vision, it's considered the norm. There are individuals with higher acuity than 20/20 -- mine is corrected to 20/18 for example.
It's cheaper than a Blu-ray which sells for anywhere from $20 - 35.
Yeah, but with Blu-ray you can keep the movie forever. With VOD, you only keep it for 24 hrs.
That's a balancing act. There are some movies I want to own, some I want to watch but not own.
Cheers,
You completely ignored something else I said: 3:2 pull down. A good 1080p set will do the 3:2 pull down to address the judder.
The benefit of a 120Hz set to me is the reduced eye strain.
3:2 pulldown doesn't address judder, it's the method by which you reassemble the original frames. They will still be in a 3:2 cadence at the end which means you'll still have judder.
On a 120Hz display, it could run 5:5 on 24p inputs and 4:4 on 60i inputs without judder.
Guess I should have used term “reverse 3:2 pulldown” or “3:2 pulldown detection” to describe how a good quality 1080p set with “3:2 pulldown” can really do to improve a video that originated from a film material after a 3:2 pulldown process. The reverse 3:2 pulldown is explained by the Projector People below, it referred to projectors but should apply to the 1080p HD sets as well:
“Why reverse 3:2 pulldown?
Reverse the process? Am I kidding? Sadly no. There are a few DVDs available that come as progressive scan rather than interlaced, but not many. When you consider the fact that the majority of people are watching DVDs on NTSC televisions and do not have the luxury of seeing them on the big screen from a front projector, it makes sense. It's okay to think about how much better our world would be if we all had giant progressive scan images from projectors in our homes, but it doesn't solve our problem. What does solve the problem is reverse 3:2 pulldown or de-interlacing.
‘Reverse 3:2 pulldown’ is the process of finding the original film frame. It would be easier to find the original frame if the new frames were not interlaced. However, as we mentioned before, we created extra video frames [through 3:2 pulldown], which are interlaced, by combining two different non-interlaced film frames. Simply displaying each video frame in progressive scan will create 'jaggies' and other distortion. Luckily, new progressive scan DVD players come with the de-interlacing built-in. Basically, the DVD player uses an MPEG decoder that knows which frames will create images with the least distortion and puts them together for you…
So in your quest for the best image for your money, what is the easy answer? Get yourself a progressive scan DVD player with 3:2 pulldown detection and use your projector's component input. You could spend the money on a projector with the reverse 3:2 pulldown (which is essentially what our 1080p sets with 3:2 pulldown are) as well, ...”
With a good 1080p set equipped with 3:2 pulldown detection, the judder issue should be resolved fairly well.
Addressing the why it won't work issue-- all Sony 1080p LCDs from 2006 forward accept native 1080p/24. Me thinks there is an issue somewhere not in Samsung/Sharp/JVC/Sony's world (Any other brands less than 2 1/2 years old that don't work out there?). Prior to that most models converted P to i and back to P. The issue seems to pointing its steamy little finger at the folks who offered you the wonderful deal.
All that did was explain how the original full frame is obtained from interlaced fields. That will help with jaggies, but judder will still be there when displaying on a 60hz TV because the now correctly assembled frames, 24 of them, cannot be shown equal number of times to get 60hz. As John Kotches mentioned, you need 120hz with 5:5 pulldown to eliminate judder.
I have the same model Sony, KDL 40V2500. Here is the bottom-line: I like Sony, don't have a Blu-Ray or HD DVD (or betamax), don't intend to get one and have been waiting for something like this TurboHD to come along.
The question I have is has anyone been told that we will enventually be able to get 1080p from DISH (that Sony 1080p sets can view)? That and when is really all I care about.
This entire thread has nothing but people pasting in info from the internet on what 1080p is. Then other people have gone off on a tangent trying to impress us with frame rates , etc.
So, will DISH make their signal Sony compatible? And when? I have talked to DISH techs 2 times and both times have been lied to.
No, your set is not 24p capable so you will never be able to view 24p content. And since you have a 60hz TV it does not matter, there is no benefit. Watching the 1080i version of the VOD (or from a Blu-Ray player) is the best your TV can do with movies.
Now if you had a Sony 24p capable TV that does not work, then yes, hopefully Dish comes up with a fix.
Ok. I just ran the test. All it did was go blank for about 2 seconds and went to the second rent confirmation screen. No indication if it passed or failed. Funny thing is, it's a Magnavox 32" LCD which can only actually display 1366x768, but it will read and downconvert 1080i. I have in the past, connected a Macbook Pro via HDMI, and the resolution shows up in the top left hand corner as 1080p. So, it must be able to accept 1080p and downconvert it to 720p.
