Confused about encryption (1 Viewer)

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tonydix

SatelliteGuys Pro
Apr 22, 2007
203
0
Bocas del Toro, Panama
I think I understand that the following systems are encrypted systems
for which a special receiver , CAM and a subscription are required

Nagravision, iredeto, Videoguard, Powervu . Digicypher etc

But when Lyngsat says the following in its encryption column what does it mean ?

NTSC

DVB

DVB 8psk

DVB 4.2.2

MPEG 1.5

Please point me in the right direction for this nformation

Thanks

Tony
 
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Apprentice

SatelliteGuys Pro
May 28, 2008
345
0
Wichita Kansas
Yeah that messes me up too. I have to ask all kinds of questions and read to figure it out. Would be nice if some one like Anole would make a little FAQ about this one :)
 

WTguy

SatelliteGuys Pro
Sep 8, 2003
430
1
NTSC is analog, the others are different varieties/features of digital signals. The AZBOX mentioned on here a lot can pretty much do all of the digital. In North America there is not a whole lot of analog left, not sure about the Central and South American sats.
This is a quick answer if you want some more detail on the signals mentioned, I am sure someone here will have a little more time than I have at the present.
 

brentb636

SatelliteGuys Pro
Jun 24, 2006
4,278
6
5 miles N of Saugatuck, Mi
I think I understand that the following systems are encrypted systems
for which a special receiver , CAM and a subscription are required

Nagravision, iredeto, Videoguard, Powervu . Digicypher etc

But when Lyngsat says the following in its encryption column what does it mean ?

NTSC

DVB

DVB 8psk

DVB 4.2.2

MPEG 1.5

Please point me in the right direction for this nformation

Thanks

Tony
Some of these ( NTSC, DVB-S , DVB-S2) are modulation standard schemes, the others are encoding schemes and standards. It can be very confusing, expecially adding in other "magical words" like encryption, for example.

I sympathize with anyone trying to understand the differences, without having some background in data communications.
:)
 

tvropro

On Vacation
Mar 9, 2007
6,872
0
I think I understand that the following systems are encrypted systems
for which a special receiver , CAM and a subscription are required

Nagravision, iredeto, Videoguard, Powervu . Digicypher etc

But when Lyngsat says the following in its encryption column what does it mean ?

NTSC

DVB

DVB 8psk

DVB 4.2.2

MPEG 1.5

Please point me in the right direction for this nformation

Thanks

Tony


NTSC = Analog

DVB = Digital Video Broadcast Mpeg 2 codec.

DVB 8psk = Digital Video Broadcast, Mpeg 4, 8PSK codec. (more efficient compression)

DVB 4.2.2 = Digital Video Broadcast, Mpeg 2, 4:2:2 codec (the color is encoded different)

MPEG 1.5 = A half breed of Mpeg 1 and 2. (used by Direct TV)
 

pro96

You Member, Member ?
Supporting Founder
Jul 18, 2005
6,459
11
OC
NTSC = Analog

DVB = Digital Video Broadcast Mpeg 2 codec.

DVB 8psk = Digital Video Broadcast, Mpeg 4, 8PSK codec. (more efficient compression)

DVB 4.2.2 = Digital Video Broadcast, Mpeg 2, 4:2:2 codec (the color is encoded different)

MPEG 1.5 = A half breed of Mpeg 1 and 2. (used by Direct TV)

You forgot one..

4DTV = DIGITAL TV that is going under soon.
 

tvropro

On Vacation
Mar 9, 2007
6,872
0
You forgot one..

4DTV = DIGITAL TV that is going under soon.

NPS is getting out of c band not SRL & Skyvision. :)

4DTV is Digicipher 2 which is Mpeg 2 with GI's own proprietary changes to the Mpeg 2 standard.
 

tonydix

SatelliteGuys Pro
Apr 22, 2007
203
0
Bocas del Toro, Panama
NTSC = Analog

DVB = Digital Video Broadcast Mpeg 2 codec.

DVB 8psk = Digital Video Broadcast, Mpeg 4, 8PSK codec. (more efficient compression)

DVB 4.2.2 = Digital Video Broadcast, Mpeg 2, 4:2:2 codec (the color is encoded different)

MPEG 1.5 = A half breed of Mpeg 1 and 2. (used by Direct TV)

So thanks to TVRPro for the explanation of the abbreviations now the question is can I receive any of these signals with an Nfusion HD box with the 8psk module installed.

Thanks to all

Tony
 

AcWxRadar

SatelliteGuys Pro
Apr 26, 2006
4,575
4
40 miles NW of Omaha. Omaha?
Tonydix,

Certainly there is a vast amount of variances and new things out there to be aware of. Encryption types and modes are of little concern to us in the FTA venture (other that to realize that it exists and to be informed of it). But, the variations in digital compression and formats are growing and growing so much, that it is definitely difficult to keep up with them.

Think back to the battle between BETA and VHS formats for analog recording of magnetic video tape. What a heated debate that became!

Now we have all these diverse methods for broadcasting and recording via digital means! How the heck do you even know when to take a side? You would have to buy so many different pieces of equipment for the normal consumer to even have them available for comparison that you could go broke!

And, the worst part is, it isn't over yet, there will be many more to come, since it is monetarily driven. The more channels and the more information , the better the audio and the video, that the provider can supply in one block and with a lower power, the more cost effective it is for them, so they are trying very hard to come up with better ways each day.

Is this good for them? Is it good for us? Well, who really knows. My personal opinion is that most of it is a tremendous waste of consumer dollars and time and a waste of resourses. But, then again, the competition of the free market system and the determination and motivation for a developer to imagine and create a better product is a measure of natural selection within any industry. Just like a PC that is outdated before you get all the software you were used to using is loaded or a car or truck losing most of its book value after you drive it off the sales lot.

Yep, it seems rediculous to me, this overpaced change, but sometimes some good things develop and sometimes they are a flop.

RADAR
 

Mr Tony

SatelliteGuys Pro
Supporting Founder
Nov 17, 2003
291
39
Mankato, MN
So thanks to TVRPro for the explanation of the abbreviations now the question is can I receive any of these signals with an Nfusion HD box with the 8psk module installed.

Thanks to all

Tony

NTSC...no...thats the old school receivers for C-Band
DVB...yes
DVB 8PSK....depends
DVB 4:2:2 it will log the channels but will show a tearing screen. The receiver cannot do 4:2:2. The "basic" DVB is 4:2:0 and all receivers can decode that
 

B.J.

SatelliteGuys Pro
Oct 15, 2008
2,029
1
Western Maine
NTSC = Analog

DVB = Digital Video Broadcast Mpeg 2 codec.

DVB 8psk = Digital Video Broadcast, Mpeg 4, 8PSK codec. (more efficient compression)

DVB 4.2.2 = Digital Video Broadcast, Mpeg 2, 4:2:2 codec (the color is encoded different)

MPEG 1.5 = A half breed of Mpeg 1 and 2. (used by Direct TV)

Part of the confusion {for me} is that MPEG is both involved in the specs for the signals that carry the video AND for the video itself. For example, the DVB thing above is transmitted in a mode described by some MPEG2 specs, however I don't think it is related to any MPEG2 codec. I think {very likely wrong} that the MPEG-2 spec contains the fundamentals for not only DVB, but also DCII and DSS transmission, but is MOST related to the actual video carried in any of the MUXes involved in any of these modes of transmission, moreso than the MUX itself.
Also a codec is usually a program that can decode the A/V streams. Ie there are codecs that will decode mpeg2 or mpeg4 video, but I don't think I've seen a codec for DVB or DSS or DCII. Ie the CODECs are for the A/V carried by the upper level mode. There can be different flavors of codecs for each kind of video, but the actual DVB format doesn't care at all about codecs, or even if the video in the mux is MPEG2 or MPEG4 or some other format.

Also, re to DVB 8PSK, I think that it is confusing to relate it to MPEG4. Some people relate MPEG4 to DVB-S2, and I think that is misleading also, even though they came out at about the same time. I'd bet that most of what has been sent in DVB 8PSK is probably MPEG-2 video, although I've never had a receiver that would do this mode... Actually, I'm assuming here that DVB 8PSK refers to TRELLIS 8PSK, but perhaps I'm wrong on this assumption too. Of the various 8PSK modes, there is TRELLIS, DVB-S2 8PSK, and Turbo 8PSK, and it was always my impression that DVB 8PSK was the Trellis variety. Generally, if you see DVB by itself, it refers to QPSK modulation, unless it says 8PSK. But I think that MPEG4 really mostly refers to the video mode, not to the overall package that you'd find it transmitted in. You could find MPEG4 video in any of the digital packages.

Anyway, this whole thing is really confused because the various MPEG specs do a lot of different things, and they can be mixed in a variety of ways.

Also.... Re to

4DTV is Digicipher 2 which is Mpeg 2 with GI's own proprietary changes to the Mpeg 2 standard.

I think that this is still unclear. 4DTV is the name of a receiver model, not really related to the transmission modes. It is a receiver that can do analog ITC, VCII subscriptions (analog video digital audio), and DCII (digital A/V). So I don't think it is right to say that 4DTV "IS" DCII, it's just one receiver capable of receiving DCII signals. Also, as mentioned above, although DCII is sent in an MPEG spec, and most of the video is in MPEG2 format, I don't think that there is any reason why MPEG4 couldn't be sent via DCII, as the DCII is really just the carrier, and just like you can put any kind of stream in DVB or DVB-S2 (ie you can have data, MPEG2 video,MPEG4 video, 4.2.0 or 4.2.2 video, various flavors of audio, etc, etc), any kind of stream can also go in a DCII signal.

I think the most important destinction about these various modes, ie NTSC, DCII, DVB, DVB-S2, DSS, are that in general, different receivers are required to do each mode.
Ie analog receivers generally do NTSC analog only.
DVB receivers won't do DVB-S2, DCII or DSS, and usually they only can play MPEG2 video, not MPEG4.
DVB-S2 receivers will generally do DVB and DVB-S2, and can generally also do MPEG2 and MPEG4 video on the mux.
DCII receivers generally won't do DVB or DSS.
DSS receivers only do DSS.

Yes, some receiver do more than one mode. 4DTV will do DCII and NTSC analog. A Genpix receiver will do DSS, DCII, DVB and Turbo 8PSK/QPSK. But in general different receivers for the different modes.


One good web page for info on most of the above is:

http://www.coolstf.com/mpeg/index.html although there is less info there about the newer DVB-S2 and 8PSK modes.
 

classicsat

SatelliteGuys Pro
Nov 28, 2009
195
0
Ontario, Canada
I think I understand that the following systems are encrypted systems
for which a special receiver , CAM and a subscription are required

Nagravision, iredeto, Videoguard, Powervu . Digicypher etc
Generally yes. Digicipher is more than just encryption, it is basically a whole digital satellite system that specifies everything from the modulation to audio/video decoding, whise heatd is the DCII encryption. GI could have made it encryption for DVB, but they elected not to, becasue the FCC allowed them to do what they please. Some formats can use a DVB receiver with CI slot, and a CAM with smartcard. Some providers require their receiver though. PowerVu, although it uses DVB, only uses their receivers, for satellite at least. to add:
But when Lyngsat says the following in its encryption column what does it mean ?
The below are not encryption, but are various video coding and modulation formats.
Analog video, FM modulated. Audio for non-scrambled channels is carried on FM subcarriers, as are (or were) a number of subsiduary audio services. Analog satellite receivers usually have variable audio tuners you can set to any subcarrier.
A standard for digital video broadcasting, used by most of the world consisting of an amalgamation of other nearly open or fully open standards. It excludes encryption proper in the standard, but allows for various 3rd party encryption systems to be used.
There is a few ways to do 8PSK, all incompatible with each other. A proper 8PSK/MPEG4 DVB system is DVB-S2, I beleive. Fundamentally, 8PSK is RF modulation which allows greater bit bandwidth in a given RF bandwidth.
DVB 4.2.2
Bascally a video coding scheme where for two horizontal/one vertical luma pixels sent, one set of color data is sent. Your receiver video decoder needs to specifically support that format. The normal format most DVB receivers support is 4:2:0, where the one chroma pixel is sent for two horizontal/two vertical is sent. 4:2:2 is used only for feeds, becuase i can be processed in the studios easier.
That is really just a catch-all term for post MPEG-1 video formats implemented before MPEG2 was ratified, and are usually not quite MPEG2 compatible.
 
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