Confused between Denon or Yamaha options for a mid-range receiver...

[toddjb]

HELP! I'm overloaded with options and really can't decide where to go. I currently have one Denon AVR and one Yamaha AVR. They both perform great but are pre-HDMI so I'm using them for audio only. I have put together a nice theater in the basement (B&W speakers, BA sub, 60" Sony LED) and it's time to update the AVR.

I'm looking in the $500 to $1000 price range. Both brands have a lot of offerings.

I actually walked out of BestBuy with the Denon AVR-1911 Sunday and returned it today, unopened. I'm sure the sound quality is top notch, but I found out that the on screen displays are a blocky white text on black screen (not overlayed) and the iPod integration isn't what I expected.

I want a receiver with the latest options, since when I buy them I keep them for several years. Mainly right now that means a decent looking GUI and easier setup. Network connectivity would be nice, but I don't actually think I need any of the streaming offerings because I get it all through my Sony TV and Blu-Ray already. The only thing I'd use the network connectivity for would be firmware updates and web setup (which the newer Yamahas offer).

Another requirement is I want a 2nd zone. Need the ability to pipe music to outdoor speakers and control the volume seperately. Both brands offer that on most receivers I have found in my price range.

I'd want to be able to play iPhone HD video through the receivers. They each offer a $99 iPhone dock. Is this worth the money or should I just purchase Apple's Component AV cable?

I don't see myself purchasing a 3D television, but, I might as well get an AVR that supports 3D pass through for the future. You never know.

I realize I'm still pretty open ended with this question, but was looking for some guidance on your experience between the two brands current offerings. There seem to be about 8 options between current models and last years higher end models that are on close-out in my current price range. I can list the specific models if that would help?

Thanks in advance for any help,
-todd

 

[vjkaty]

Pioneer VSX-1120-K Receiver ??


"Works with iPhone"-certified, USB/Composite video cable included; free iControlAVR iPhone app available for control of receiver with iPhone
Support for latest HDMI spec (3-D ready) with 1080p upscaling, plus DTS-HD®, Dolby® TrueHD, Dolby Pro Logic IIz, and THX®, Select2 Plus
Multi-zone configuration (7.1-channel, or 5.1 + 2), plus RS-232 support for home automation
Full-color GUI, Advanced Sound Retriever, and PC control
Bluetooth®, ready (with AS-BT100 adapter, sold separatel


"Works with iPhone"-certified, USB/Composite video cable included; free iControlAVR iPhone app available for control of receiver with iPhone
Support for latest HDMI spec (3-D ready) with 1080p upscaling, plus DTS-HD®, Dolby® TrueHD, Dolby Pro Logic IIz, and THX®, Select2 Plus
Multi-zone configuration (7.1-channel, or 5.1 + 2), plus RS-232 support for home automation
Full-color GUI, Advanced Sound Retriever, and PC control
Bluetooth®, ready (with AS-BT100 adapter, sold separately)

There's only one way to get closer to an artist's true intent--and that's to get as close as possible to exactly what the artist created. With this in mind, Pioneer ushers in an entirely new era of high definition stereophonic performance. From enjoying the very best 1080p high definition picture available to hearing every last nuance with award-winning audio capabilities, Pioneer's range of receivers offers nothing less than a miraculous performance at every level. And with an ever-increasing list of connectivity and integration options as well, these receivers will also guarantee to get you closer to the original experience than ever before.

The Pioneer VSX-1120-K delivers the ultimate level of control and sophistication for your home theater. With connectivity options for all your latest high-definition home theater components and digital 1080p upscaling from any source, the VSX-1120-K takes performance a step further with multi-zone and RS-232 support for home automation systems. And the VSX-1120-K brings extensive connectivity for your digital media via Ethernet and a front USB input, and compatibility with Bluetooth sources (using the optional AS-BT100 adapter, sold separately). Plus, it's "Works with iPhone"-certified, so you can incorporate your favorite Apple products into your home theater easily. iControlAVR, a free iPhone app (downloaded separately) and PC control turns your iPhone, iPod Touch, or PC into the ultimate control center. Home theater systems don't get more powerful or versatile than the Pioneer VSX-1120-K.

 

[toddjb]

Okay, I decided that I should give more info on the models I'm looking at to better relay my confusion....

Features I don't care about which may affect the price of some of these include HD Radio and Sirius integration.

The Denon's seem to have more streaming options in the networked receivers. The Yamahas seem limited to Rhapsody as opposed to including Pandora and others.

Denon

• AVR-1911 - has what I need, no GUI, no network ($549 - sale)
• AVR-991 - the new GUI, networked, AirPlay compatible ($999)
• AVR-4310CI - last year's receiver, no 3D?, but a networked $1999 box now for ($799)
• AVR-2311CI - ($799 - sale)
• AVR-891 - the new GUI ($799)
• MARANTZ SR5005 - ($799)

Yamaha

• RX-V867 - networked, 3D, nice GUI. connect via a browser to setup. ($799)
• RX-A1000 - New Aventage. Lists for $1099, would look for $999 sale if purchased.
• RX-A800 - Nice GUI, great speakers. Really confused between THIS and the 867? ($749)
• RX-A700 - I think this is the same as above, without HD Radio. Might be winner ($599)
• also the RX-V667, RX-V1065, RX-V765 & RX-V665 - got confused with features at this point but they were all between $550 and $900

So, I suppose after thinking about it I want

Zone2 support (only really care about seperate volume, can be same source)
3D pass through
GUI display
Easy self setup with microphone to auto-set speaker configs.

iPhone connectivity would be nice
Network connectivity would be nice

Someone help me make sense of all this. I AM LOST! ...but am leaning towards the Yamaha V867.

 

[toddjb]

Pioneer VSX-1120-K Receiver ??


"Works with iPhone"-certified, USB/Composite video cable included; free iControlAVR iPhone app available for control of receiver with iPhone....

Thanks! I'd only been looking at Yamaha and Denon due to past experience and reviews. I'll look at this Pioneer. It is nice that it comes with the cables that others charge you for. How does the audio quality compare?

 

[jayn_j]

The only comment I would make is that you are placing too much importance on the nice GUI. This is something that you only look at occasionally, when you are initially setting up the system or during troubleshooting a problem. The quality of the screen image is the furthest thing from your mind at these times.

Choose based on the sound and if it has the audio and switching features you want. All three of these are fine receivers in this range. The Denon's have traditionally had a somewhat cleaner sound and better build quality. Not sure if that is still the case. I have an AVC-3000 that I bought in 1992 that was my primary receiver until 2006, which still gets regular use and which is as clean and flawless as the day I bought it. It is hopelessly obsolete as an A/V receiver, but wonderful for what it does.

 

[diogen]

Having read it for years, I most of the time trust Secrets' "Best of the Year" picks
Secrets Best of 2010 Awards
This year they recommend the Pioneer VSX-32 Elite (nearly identical to VSX-1120-K)
Pioneer Elite VSX-32 A/V Receiver - eCoustics.com
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1257542

Diogen.

 

[teachsac]

Having the Pioneer, it is OK. There have been several compatability issues between it and D* 3D and the Oppo BDP93. There is a workaround for the D* 3D, but with the Oppo, the workaround for 3D is not acceptable. The ipod interface on the Pioneer is also horrible although there was an update that made it a more stable.

I agree with Jay, that the user interface should be the least of your worries. It is seldom used. While the Denon's interface is not "state of the art" in their mid and low range receivers, it is easy to navigate and the receivers are extremely easy to set up. I don't know about the SR series of Marantz receivers, but I do know the AV series overlays the interface on the picture. However, it is not the prettiest interface either though it is very functional. Sound, number of inputs, and features should be the top priority. If your room is very bright, hardwood floors and tiles, then the Yamaha might be a better choice. If your room is warm, carpets and drapes, then the Denon might be a better choice.

S~

 

[vjkaty]

Thanks! I'd only been looking at Yamaha and Denon due to past experience and reviews. I'll look at this Pioneer. It is nice that it comes with the cables that others charge you for. How does the audio quality compare?

I was reading the new issue of Home Theater Magazine (January 2011), and they recommend Yamaha rx-a2000 and Denon AVR 4810CI but they feature the Pioneer vsx-1120 as a 5 star for performance, value,ergonomics and features. I have not compared audio because I am a year away from a purchase. Let me know what you decide and enjoy the journey.

 

[toddjb]

Great feedback, please keep it coming. Thank you!

The only comment I would make is that you are placing too much importance on the nice GUI...

Good point. If I really only use it on setup, that's valid. However, if I am going to see ugly text come up any time I switch inputs or if I'll want to tweak settings regularly, I'd like a nice GUI. I don't know if that's the case. A nice user interface goes a long way towards making something easier to setup and use. If the setup isn't intimidating, we're more likely to take advantage of all the features!

If your room is very bright, hardwood floors and tiles, then the Yamaha might be a better choice. If your room is warm, carpets and drapes, then the Denon might be a better choice.

Good tip, thanks. We're looking at hardwood, mid size room, no drapes.

I do not by any means have an expansive space to fill with noise. This is a long basement room that I've turned into a theatre room. So, nice and dark, but lower ceilings and a pergo floor w/ an area rug.

 

[Ilya]

As jayn_j said, don't worry about the GUI that much! I love my Denon. I don't care about it's GUI, but I only get to see it once or twice a year when I make any changes to my setup. You don't see the GUI when switching inputs. It's not like your satellite receiver, where you see the GUI every day...

 

[jasonbonz]

Aside from the gui, if you are more concerned with the picture, most den on receivers above $500 have the same anchor bay video chip that is in the oppo blu ray player. For 99 go with apple tv and use hdmi for video and sound. Receiver docks suck....

 

[teachsac]

Implementaion in a receiver is not as good as from an actual video device. Simple rule of thumb: Video devices handle video and audio device handle audio.

S~

 

[raoul5788]

Implementaion in a receiver is not as good as from an actual video device. Simple rule of thumb: Video devices handle video and audio device handle audio.

S~

So you are saying there is a loss of quality in the picture if you run your video through an a/v receiver?

 

[teachsac]

So you are saying there is a loss of quality in the picture if you run your video through an a/v receiver?

Not necessarily. There usually aren't as many advanced tweaks in an AVR or they don't work as well as a video device. Best bet is to set the video to passthrough (if possible).

S~

 

[jayn_j]

So you are saying there is a loss of quality in the picture if you run your video through an a/v receiver?

Not that simple. No significant loss if you simply use the receiver in video passthrough mode. What teach is saying is that you shouldn't do resolution conversion (say upconverting a 720p source to 1080p to the TV, and you certainly shouldn't use any of the tweeking features that some receivers contain.

I'm not sure I fully agree, but it certainly is a good rule of thumb. However, I don't see any problem with using a receiver as a video switch. For the rest, you need to evaluate the unit and the company. As always the best answer provides the result that looks best to YOU.

 

[teachsac]

Absolutely nothing wrong with using the AVR for switching. I pass all video. No processing, no scaling, no tweaking (NR, etc.)

S~

 

[raoul5788]

Okay, gotcha, and I agree. Switching is fine, but leave the hd signals alone. I do upscale non hd sources through the avr.

 

[jayn_j]

Okay, gotcha, and I agree. Switching is fine, but leave the hd signals alone. I do upscale non hd sources through the avr.

And so do I. I am willing to accept the AVR limitations to get the switching convenience for non-HDMI sources, including component based cable box and s-video Laserdisc. Aside: It is getting really tough to watch the laserdisc on the projector, no matter what connection I use but some material has never been released in DVD, much less BR.

 

[raoul5788]

Wow, I thought I was the only one that still has a laser disk player! I haven't used it in years, but I have it. Do you know anyone who wants to buy it?

 

[jayn_j]

Sorry, I already have a spare I don't spin it up often, but as i said, there are some things that are only in that format. I try to skip a generation, so I have been living with some stuff on LD while waiting for the BR releases. An example is the old MGM musicals.